PRE Drain

[quozaxx]

Imagine if you will a classroom that has a creepy feeling to it. The teacher starts to approach the room and you can hear her high heels clacking on the floor.

 

A small 1d6 PRE drain affects all of the classmates....

 

Then a player mentions that if it's an attack they should "see" it. Rules lawyers, I need your help. This is not the first time that visibility of a power has been questioned.

 

Does the npc "need" the power to be invisible? Or do I just need a better description. The feeling is coming from the room not the teacher. (area effect) but technically the teacher is causing it.

 

A visible power should be noticed by at least 2 senses. I really don't want to play the Invisible Power effect card each and every time. But I do like following the rules. So, I'm thinking (hoping) that there is a loop hole here.

[pinecone]

Re: PRE Drain

 

.........

[psyber624]

Re: PRE Drain

 

Well, as a GM you can do as you like of course, but "technically" Drain is an obvious power so it must be obvious to two senses. This means that those senses can determine the Activity, Source, Target, Path, Special Effect, Intensity, Target Effect, and Source Effect of the power. Of course all may not apply (depending on SFX for instance).

 

So its pretty apparent that RAW, they would know that the room was applying a weak Pre Drain to them, and possibly that the teacher is causing it (all depends on how the power is built. If it is a power the teacher has that targets the whole room then they know its coming from the teacher. If the power is built into the room in some fashion and the teacher is just activating it remotely in some fashion then they can't detect that.)

 

Of course as GM you have final say over all this. The "standard" means to deal with this issue is to say "It is built with invisible power effects". The evil GM method is to not tell them their PRE was drained at all, just make sure that you are adjusting any of their rolls appropriately (built with totally invisible plus invisible target effect). If you don't want it to be invisible then yeah, the players should know (more than likely they are wanting to be able to avoid it in some fashion, such as aborting to dive for cover... not really appropriate given your description of the scene but you know how some players are......)

[Lord Liaden]

Re: PRE Drain

 

It might be simpler just to run the effect as a Presence Attack. PRE isn't a Power by rules definition, so visibility (aside from the effect it has on people) isn't an issue.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: PRE Drain

 

But the effects of those 2 things aren't really very similar.

[ayinde]

Re: PRE Drain

 

ok maybe im of base but lets say the power is projecting off the teacher. if she isn't in the room but the power is ranged all the character would know is the feel on edge and what ever it is that is causing these feeling is coming down the hall and its getting closer. so I think you are within the spirit of the rules as is. lets replace the teacher with a sniper he fires and kills your comrade his body jerks to the left on impact so the shot came from the right but from were exactly was the shot made? at the moment you would have no idea..... but ya you know it took place

[quozaxx]

Re: PRE Drain

 

So it may be better to simply forgo the PRE Drain and go with a simple PRE Attack. The special effect being she's just a creepy teacher and it's just a creepy room?

 

Can a room have a PRE Attack?

[Doc Samson]

Re: PRE Drain

 

I have a few thoughts. The way you handled it I think is fine. Tell the players they could hear and feel the PRE Drain (2 senses). Your a GM, not a mystery writer so its ok that you had to think about the second sense.

 

I think its early for the PRE Attack (IMHO they should be used sparingly during dramatic moments), that's what PRE Drains and my next suggestion build up to.

 

If you want the origin of the power to be the room, I might go with Change Environment (see the example in the book for Dr. Terror's fear Aura). I would even leave it visible, the room is gloomy, cold, and creepy.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: PRE Drain

 

Dude the way I see it you are aware of the attack so move on or get lost...

Excuse me pinecone. It is not my place, but this is a public forum.

 

Why the hostile reply?

 

QM

[Lord Liaden]

Re: PRE Drain

 

So it may be better to simply forgo the PRE Drain and go with a simple PRE Attack. The special effect being she's just a creepy teacher and it's just a creepy room?

 

Can a room have a PRE Attack?

 

If you were willing to build a PRE Drain for the room, I don't see why you couldn't give it Presence, "Only For Creepiness." Or make it additional creepifying Presence for the teacher, Inobvious Immobile Focus (room).

 

I think its early for the PRE Attack (IMHO they should be used sparingly during dramatic moments)' date=' that's what PRE Drains and my next suggestion build up to.[/quote']

 

Well, from the way quozzax describes the scenario he wants, it does sound like a dramatic moment. However,

 

If you want the origin of the power to be the room' date=' I might go with Change Environment (see the example in the book for Dr. Terror's fear Aura). I would even leave it visible, the room is gloomy, cold, and creepy.[/quote']

 

That sounds like a reasonable approach too.

[Cassandra]

Re: PRE Drain

 

A PRE drain could be build is Ranged (+1/2), AE (+1), Invisible [sight] (+1/2) representing a toxin that causes fear, making it's victims easy to control or intimidate.

 

It's something like the Scarecrow would use.

 

Speaking of the Scarecrow, there was a scene in the Superfriends when he attacked Wonder Woman with a "fear inducer" to cause her to succumb to claustrophobia. I see that as an EGO Attack with a fear based special effect.

[quozaxx]

Re: PRE Drain

 

I haven't made the PRE attack yet, just the PRE drain.

 

and I was hoping to avoid the Invisible Power Effect.

 

So is "creepy" a sight based sense? Gloomy maybe, but creepy?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: PRE Drain

 

Maybe Touch-based, as in skin crawling, shivers down your back, etc.

[psyber624]

Re: PRE Drain

 

"creepy" isn't really well defined for HERO, you can base it off of whatever stat/sense you want, and if you are really going all out for a horror style campaign maybe even an Everyman "6th" sense would be appropriate to define for these kinds of things to work off of.

 

Scientifically speaking a "creepy" feeling is psychological response(lending itself to EGO), but can be stimulated by any of our senses, although taste might be a hard one to give examples of. However Bravery is PRE related, so if you are trying to simulate an effect that reduces bravery PRE Drain is the way to go. (Although overcoming fear is EGO based, so this one is really weird.)

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: PRE Drain

 

So it may be better to simply forgo the PRE Drain and go with a simple PRE Attack. The special effect being she's just a creepy teacher and it's just a creepy room?

 

Can a room have a PRE Attack?

 

You're the GM. The room can have anything you want it to. You don't even have to write it up with game mechanics. 'Characters in this room lose 1d6 PRE every (time increment); they are unaware of this loss, aside from becoming more fearful the longer they remain'.

 

BOOM. Done.

[Vulcan]

Re: PRE Drain

 

I haven't made the PRE attack yet, just the PRE drain.

 

and I was hoping to avoid the Invisible Power Effect.

 

So is "creepy" a sight based sense? Gloomy maybe, but creepy?

 

Use 'Change Environment' for a creepy room... and give the teacher an extra 1d6 to her PRE attack for appropriate setting. You get the same effect either way.

[Kal'El Wayne]

Re: PRE Drain

 

Or simply say 'Sure, you can see the power. The power is "This teacher is really creepy". So you "see" that the teacher...is really creepy. Congratulations, I guess?'

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: PRE Drain

 

I agree with Doc Samson, for a PRE Drain just define it to be visible to two senses that aren't normally targeting senses (I'd go with touch and mental myself). That way the characters know that there is a PRE Drain occuring (it feels really creepy here) but the origin isn't obvious unless they have the correct Enhanced Senses or make a good PER roll.

 

If it really is the room that causes the creepy effect, then Change Environment would fit the bill really well unless you specifically want the lower PRE that the Drain causes for some reason.