Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

[Greywind]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

Canary was in hiding, hence no costume. Her daughter's ability, as I recall, was more psychic. No reason powers need to transfer, power to child. Look at Magneto and his kids.

[Clonus]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

Batgirl had a costume. Black Canary's lack of costume, and her daughter not having the canary cry was a big problem with the Bird's of Prey. Huntress may have had a "costume", but is wasn't exactly a costume.

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Looks like a costume to me.

[Greywind]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

Not to mention the ugly coat.

[Clonus]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

It was the 90s. Badass longcoats were common as cape substitutes.

[Greywind]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

It was still ugly.

[Tasha]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

It was still ugly.

 

I respectfully disagree. I liked Huntress's Costume. The BoP universe was obviously totally different from the mainstream DC universe(s). Like a lot of things, I took the show for what it was. A trio of kick ass women fighting crime. I was quite disappointed when it was canceled.

[Greywind]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

I liked the show just fine. Just thought the coat was ugly. I also prefer Ashley Scott as a blonde.

 

 

This is the one I'm thinking of that I didn't like. The duster was fine.

[Tasha]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

I liked the show just fine. Just thought the coat was ugly. I also prefer Ashley Scott as a blonde.

 

 

This is the one I'm thinking of that I didn't like. The duster was fine.

 

I seem to remember that she went clubbing before/after her patrol. So I was thinking that was more going out wear than superheroing clothing.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

It seems several people's descriptions of "People with Powers" is actually just a description of Iron Age in general. It's true that most PwP settings tend to be more Iron, or at least Bronze, Age but much of what has been dumped on them as "bad" in this thread applies equally to dozens of "superheros" with costumes as well.

[Tasha]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

It seems several people's descriptions of "People with Powers" is actually just a description of Iron Age in general. It's true that most PwP settings tend to be more Iron' date=' or at least Bronze, Age but much of what has been dumped on them as "bad" in this thread applies equally to dozens of "superheros" [i']with [/i]costumes as well.

 

Yeah, it's kind of a throwback to the Old "Mystery Men" of the Pulp era. The difference being that this new breed have actual Powers (or a Power). Definate beyond human norm power. Not "Trained from Birth to the Peak of Human potential" power, but actual weird abilities. The characters have Modern Sensibilities, so aren't just heroes because they "should" be. They are heroes sometimes despite their dark nature. No real costumes or masks.

[Orion]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

People with Powers are still people. They are allowed to have biases and faults. They don't have to be role models, and aren't required to always act for the good of society. They are allowed to use weapons that might actually hurt someone, or even (gasp!) kill the opponent. The story is about the person, not about the power, and there is rarely a message involved. The plot is more important than the visual aspect, so showy powers and costumes are rarely seen.

 

Superheroes are virtues with a human face. Their message (do not kill, help others, treat all equally, etc) is often more important than their personality. Their power, and how they use it, is more important to the story than what is going on in their lives, or in the world around them. They like to fight and get into combat, but cannot handle actually hurting anyone. The visual component is more important than the plot, and costumes and showy powers are the norm.

 

So all Superheroes are high silver age to you? I have to admit I have a bias towards stories about larger than heroes rather than just folks. That's where so many people with powers falls down for me. So does Iron age comics.

 

I actually have a strong preference for Bronze Age superheroes, but toss in a reasonable amount of People with Powers in my stuff. My two longest running characters never wore uniforms, and were never about being a role model. Cops with powers is the vibe we were after. In fact, I don't think being a good role model or a "hero" has ever been the point of any super campaign I have played or GM'd. It's not that we were ever against the idea, it just wasn't as interesting to us as other stuff.

 

It's not that supers are silver age to me, but that most supers tend towards silver age. With superheroes being such a wide category, there's room for about anything. I think my definitions show the clear differences between supers and people with powers, but of course there is going to be significant overlap as well.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

People with Powers are still people. They are allowed to have biases and faults. They don't have to be role models' date=' and aren't required to always act for the good of society. [b']They are allowed to use weapons that might actually hurt someone, or even (gasp!) kill the opponent[/b]. The story is about the person, not about the power, and there is rarely a message involved. The plot is more important than the visual aspect, so showy powers and costumes are rarely seen.

 

Everything I put in bold applies equally to Iron/Rust Age supers and to some degree even Bronze in general more than People with Powers specifically IMO.

 

Superheroes are virtues with a human face. Their message (do not kill' date=' help others, treat all equally, etc) is often more important than their personality. Their power, and how they use it, is more important to the story than what is going on in their lives, or in the world around them. They like to fight and get into combat, but cannot handle actually hurting anyone. The visual component is more important than the plot, and costumes and showy powers are the norm.[/quote']

 

Likewise, much of what you put in here is describing Silver/Early Bronze age supers. There were Golden Age and are many Iron/Rust Age supers that kill, that are not "virtues with a human face", et cetera. As to the "visual component" being "more important than the plot", that just sounds like bad writing to me. If it is a mark of superheros than that is a bad thing and one that I would argue is not universal in the genre.

[Epic Legand]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

I think there is an element you are all missing, the rules the world runs by. In a superhero world, you catch the falling girl and shes fine, in PWP, she might have a broken back from stopping so quick. Also, in a super setting, hero's have challenges that are right up there ally...magic villain's fights magic hero. PWP, challenges are lower level, like "gov shadow team". Challenges could be...stop crime, but there is all that drug money on the table, and your 2 months behind on the house payment...do you take the money ?

I also feel characters on PWP are simpler, no 4 step mega char...just " strong guy" or "cat powers"...not "cat powers, plus cybernetic implants and super tech cat mobile, and also super billionaire "...though that does not mean they cannot have a fun backstory.

[Greywind]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

Eh, sorry. First "broken for stopping too quick" was Gwen Stacy. Silver, maybe Bronze Age, Spider-Man.

 

Other than that you're bringing up character motivations. You're saying supers are bigger than life and the people with powers aren't any better than the scum they deal with. That's pretty much the epitome of "Rust Age".

[assault]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

"cat powers, plus cybernetic implants and super tech cat mobile, and also super billionaire " is hardly typical of superheroes either. Characters like that were mostly products of a fairly restricted time period, one which, incidentally, was also when characters who were amoral jerks were in fashion. The two are related.

[Epic Legand]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

wolverine-cyborge/spy/mutant/samurai

Forge-shamen/mutant/cyborg/soldier/inventer

Reed Richards- Inventor/cosmic powers/super rich/super genius

Iron Man- Playboy/Inventor/entrepreneur/Power armor/super genius/super rich

 

Many characters from both Marvel and DC are just SOOO good it's crazy. not just with the morel fiber, but Just TOO good, it makes it hard for a "normal" to relate too

[assault]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

wolverine-cyborge/spy/mutant/samurai

Forge-shamen/mutant/cyborg/soldier/inventer

Reed Richards- Inventor/cosmic powers/super rich/super genius

Iron Man- Playboy/Inventor/entrepreneur/Power armor/super genius/super rich

 

Really it's only Forge that's the true example of a mess of unconnected elements.

 

They've tried to do it to Wolverine, but he started as "just" a cyborg/mutant. Still kind of lame, but really only a two step character.

 

Obviously super genius and super rich tend to be related. Reed is a genius with stretching powers, and Tony is a genius who builds himself power amour.

 

That's a whole different level of cheese from Forge or Psylocke.

[Greywind]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

Reed doesn't always have money.

[Grailknight]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

Reed doesn"t use money on material things often. They always have money. They own a skyscraper in Manhattan for example.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

Reed doesn"t use money on material things often. They always have money. They own a skyscraper in Manhattan for example.

I don't follow comics all that closely anymore but lack of money has been an issue with the F4 multiple times in the past. Not they become poor, but lack the funds to pay for the Baxter building and risk losing it, that sort of thing. It was a plot device used often enough that it got used in the 90's cartoon and the movie more recently.

[Greywind]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

Reed doesn"t use money on material things often. They always have money. They own a skyscraper in Manhattan for example.

 

In the words of Ben Grimm: "Yer a real financial wiz, Stretch. You're telling me that we got money so long as we don't spend any."

[Clonus]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

I don't follow comics all that closely anymore but lack of money has been an issue with the F4 multiple times in the past. Not they become poor' date=' but lack the funds to pay for the Baxter building and risk losing it, that sort of thing. It was a plot device used often enough that it got used in the 90's cartoon and the movie more recently.[/quote']

 

Reed has a guaranteed income from the patents on the crumbs that fall off his table, but he's a scientific and engineering genius, not a financial one so he can regularly find his outlay bigger than his income, particularly since high energy physics isn't a cheap hobby.

[psyber624]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

Not to mention the fact that owning something doesn't ensure financial success (quite the opposite most often). While he may own the Baxter building and possibly make a profit off of his tenants that live there I believe it would be reasonable to believe that the rent is relative low (considering the frequency with which people living there have to contend with attacks of a Super Villainous nature). And while the building may represent wealth it is not money. You can quite easily be "broke" while owning lots of "stuff" if you cannot readily and easily turn it into cash.

[sinanju]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

Not to mention the fact that owning something doesn't ensure financial success (quite the opposite most often). While he may own the Baxter building and possibly make a profit off of his tenants that live there I believe it would be reasonable to believe that the rent is relative low (considering the frequency with which people living there have to contend with attacks of a Super Villainous nature). And while the building may represent wealth it is not money. You can quite easily be "broke" while owning lots of "stuff" if you cannot readily and easily turn it into cash.

 

Yes indeed, as anyone who's ever read (or watched) period BBC dramas knows. You can have a "wealthy" family who possess a huge estate, but lack the money to keep it up or to maintain the lifestyle to which they are accustomed and/or are expected to present. Reed could easily own the Baxter Building and still have little or no cash flow for (or beyond) basic maintenance. Throw in, as mentioned, the high costs of his research and invention* and he could be bringing in millions or billions...and spending it just as quickly.

 

*In the real world, fab plants to manufacture computer chips cost billions. They're affordable only by very wealthy companies, and then only because they can sell them in huge quantities to recoup the investment. And that's for one kind of very specialized piece of technology. If Reed wants to build some super-gizmo, how often does he have to build the tools to build the tools to build the tools to build the gizmo because the rest of the world is nowhere close to his level of science? He's gonna blow through his income like the federal government.

[Epic Legand]

Re: Superhero settings vs People with Powers settings

 

My original point was not that Reed was mega rich, but that the "super hero" universes are filled with imposable characters. Doom is a tech genius, a high level mage, mega weathy, power armor wearing KING. My point was that one of the key differences to PWP is not just the power level, but how believable the charecters are. The cab driver, with girlfriend problems....and she's NOT a supermodel...That's problems most people can relate too. Now add in super powers, but do not make him a paragon of virtue.He does not have to be a villain, or an ass...just ordinary.