JohnOSpencer Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 I am thinking of disallowing martial arts in my current superheroic game. I've noticed that more and more characters are writing in reasons to have martial arts just to take advantage of them. After looking into them, I think they are too cheap. Why would anyone buy a 2 or 4 die hand to hand attack when martial and offensive strike are just plain better? A 2d6 HA runs about 7 points and costs 1 END. A martial strike costs 4 points and costs no end, heck it also gives you a 2 DCV bonus. I've started to become a fan of "multipower martial arts". What do all of you think? Am I just being cranky, or do martial arts seem too good to others also? John Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 remember, the character has to spend at least 10 points on martial arts. He can't just buy offensive strike. If you find players are still abusing it, then make the minimum points buy STR/2. This will still let the low STR characters load up on martial arts but keep the 50 STR bricks from getting abusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Re: Martial Arts in Superheroic Games Originally posted by JohnOSpencer I am thinking of disallowing martial arts in my current superheroic game. I've noticed that more and more characters are writing in reasons to have martial arts just to take advantage of them. After looking into them, I think they are too cheap. Why would anyone buy a 2 or 4 die hand to hand attack when martial and offensive strike are just plain better? A 2d6 HA runs about 7 points and costs 1 END. A martial strike costs 4 points and costs no end, heck it also gives you a 2 DCV bonus. I've started to become a fan of "multipower martial arts". What do all of you think? Am I just being cranky, or do martial arts seem too good to others also? John Spencer So long as it doesn't break you defacto "rule of x" I don't see it as being an issue. I allow martial arts, but I don't normally allow martial arts DCs to "stack" with superpowers (like uber-strength) for conceptual reasons. I have no issue, however, with maneuvers that do not provide a damage bonus being used in conjunction with super-powers. I recommend taking it on a case by case basis. Another option is to build martial arts as a multipower (see telios). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOSpencer Posted November 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Re: Re: Martial Arts in Superheroic Games Originally posted by D-Man So long as it doesn't break you defacto "rule of x" I don't see it as being an issue. I allow martial arts, but I don't normally allow martial arts DCs to "stack" with superpowers (like uber-strength) for conceptual reasons. I have no issue, however, with maneuvers that do not provide a damage bonus being used in conjunction with super-powers. I recommend taking it on a case by case basis. Another option is to build martial arts as a multipower (see telios). Yeah, i've using MA multipowers for my personal characters since Watchers of the Dragon, and I was a little disappointed that the 5th ed UMA didn't have much on them. It doesn't usually break the "rule fo x", but I think my players are unitentionally designing martial arts into their characters. I think my base problem is they all go for Martial strike, block and dodge. John Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Martial Arts in Superheroic Games Originally posted by JohnOSpencer Yeah, i've using MA multipowers for my personal characters since Watchers of the Dragon, and I was a little disappointed that the 5th ed UMA didn't have much on them. It doesn't usually break the "rule fo x", but I think my players are unitentionally designing martial arts into their characters. I think my base problem is they all go for Martial strike, block and dodge. John Spencer Sounds like a genre enforcement issue. Think genre young grasshopper, your hackmaster min/max nature betrays you... Tell them to buy 2 point skill levels with the standard maneuvers they want (or 3 point levels with a tight group (punch, block grab)) unless they are a "martial artist" and call it a day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard00 Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Martial Arts in Superheroic Games Originally posted by JohnOSpencer I think my base problem is they all go for Martial strike, block and dodge. Gotta go with D-Man on this one. Simply don't allow every character to have it. Make 'em buy 3-pt skills with Strike, Dodge and Block instead, maybe with an extra DC or two if they think it's appropriate. It's rare that more than a few heroes have true martial arts. Most just have levels in HTH or with specific maneuvers. I'd recommend against disallowing them altogether, though. Martial Arts are such a great staple of the genre it'd be a shame to see an abuse of the skill drive it out of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 I don't get what the big deal is. I've studied martial arts and I'm not even a superhero. Most, if not all, of the Avengers and the X-Men rate martial arts because of their training. Supers do tend to be resourceful. Considering the numerous ways martial arts maneuvers can be justified I don't know why anybody would fret over it. Martial Arts maneuvers shouldn't be restricted simply to guys running around in gis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 I have no problem with characters taking MA if they should have great skill at fighting, thus MOST Superheroes with experience will have them IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by JmOz I have no problem with characters taking MA if they should have great skill at fighting, thus MOST Superheroes with experience will have them IMO I agree. The only ones without some sort of advanced combat training are those who rely entirely on powers or some shtick related. Virtually every X-man for example should have several 'commando training' manuevers. Spiderman has his spider-fu. The Batman extended family of course shuld have 30+pts in several forms. Etc. The only exceptions are people like Superman, who has so much raw power and speed he hasn't really trained in any particular form; Flash who has such raw speed no one is qualified to teach him; and pure blasters like the Human Torch who rarely engage in HtH combat and are more likely to have developed straight-up levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Actualy I would give Flash a MA PAckage built around his speed, for one thing he has been doing this sense he was a kid (About 14 years old), he has learned to fight in the same way that fisticuffs is not a real style but still a learned fighting style (make sense?) Same with superman now, he has been in the game so long he has learned how to fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Another thing to consider is just raising the minimum for MA from 10 pts to 20 pts. That might help enforce making the MA more of an integral part of the character's concept than a min/max add on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by JmOz Actualy I would give Flash a MA PAckage built around his speed, for one thing he has been doing this sense he was a kid (About 14 years old), he has learned to fight in the same way that fisticuffs is not a real style but still a learned fighting style (make sense?) Same with superman now, he has been in the game so long he has learned how to fight I wouldn't necesarily disagree with either. And if someone brought a Human Torch clone into my campaign with a ranged martial arts package I wouldn't complain either. But for my money I say all three just have CSLs. For example I have read in several issues of Spiderman an opponent commenting on the combat style Spidey has. I haven't read similar comments about Supes or the Flash. Instead they get comments about their raw power/speed. It's just a flavor thing for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 At least with the Flash (Wally West) he talks about how Barry and Jay have taught him to use his speed, I would say that would include a speed MA package (I even made one most of the speedsters in my world use, very fast, most have the FMove element in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by JmOz At least with the Flash (Wally West) he talks about how Barry and Jay have taught him to use his speed, I would say that would include a speed MA package (I even made one most of the speedsters in my world use, very fast, most have the FMove element in it I agree with you. If ever there was a character who qualified for passing strike and flying dodge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 I have no issues with MA packages that fit SFX (speed tricks like the flash), or character conception (uber commandos like cap). My objection is to players who sit down and say: "my full strength flying brick knows kung fu." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man I have no issues with MA packages that fit SFX (speed tricks like the flash), or character conception (uber commandos like cap). My objection is to players who sit down and say: "my full strength flying brick knows kung fu." What is he says my full strength flying brick knows kung fu because blah blah blah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 I would have a problem with that to most likely. UNLESS there is a reason for it: For example IRON FALCON: His mastery of his personal Ch'I has allowed him to become an amazing Fighter, He has a Strength of 50 do to his mastery of his personal Ch'I, further more he can use his Ch'I mastery to fly, bounce bullets, etc... On top of all this he has learned Kung Fu This ia an appropriate Flying Brick w/Kung Fu I crashed in kansas and then went to japan where I learned eastern Martial Arts is no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by D-Man My objection is to players who sit down and say: "my full strength flying brick knows kung fu." Flying brick knows Kung Fu. "show me" Does he wear a cassok? Sorry just Matrixing out recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by JmOz Same with superman now, he has been in the game so long he has learned how to fight I MAJORLY disagree. Supe DOESN'T know martial arts. Sure, he may have 2-3 skills with Punch/Grab & 2-3 skills with Move Through/Move By, but for him to buy martial arts is NOT in genera, and sure as HELL isn't in character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by phydaux I MAJORLY disagree. Supe DOESN'T know martial arts. Sure, he may have 2-3 skills with Punch/Grab & 2-3 skills with Move Through/Move By, but for him to buy martial arts is NOT in genera, and sure as HELL isn't in character. He knew martial arts back in Pre-Crisis days. Remember the adventures of Nightwing and Flamebird? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Escafarc Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X He knew martial arts back in Pre-Crisis days. Remember the adventures of Nightwing and Flamebird? I seem to remember a "Private Life of Clark Kent" back-up in Action Comics where he was taking Akido with Steve Lombard(Gods,I'm old). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by Agent Escafarc I seem to remember a "Private Life of Clark Kent" back-up in Action Comics where he was taking Akido with Steve Lombard(Gods,I'm old). Didn't he know Kryptonian martial arts? I could swear this was referenced once or twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by phydaux I MAJORLY disagree. Supe DOESN'T know martial arts. Sure, he may have 2-3 skills with Punch/Grab & 2-3 skills with Move Through/Move By, but for him to buy martial arts is NOT in genera, and sure as HELL isn't in character. Think of it like the Dirty Infighting style: He knows a style but it is not an actual traied style, it comes from tons of experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X Didn't he know Kryptonian martial arts? I could swear this was referenced once or twice. I'm sure of it as well. Then again, anything could probably be referenced and made a case for. Me, as long as the character fits into the campaign without anooying me, I can deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Escafarc Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Originally posted by lemming Me, as long as the character fits into the campaign without anooying me, I can deal. This has been our measuring stick as well after all we're talking about comicbook characters here and you can pretty much justify anything with the proper imagination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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