Martial Arts in Superheroic Games

[Pattern Ghost]

Oh, and have they collected any of them yet?

[Agent Escafarc]

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost

Oh, and have they collected any of them yet?

The New Teen Titans came out in '82 and isn't a reboot it was just the second series of TT and yes they havecollected the fist few issues along with the DC Comics #26 insert in their hardbound Archives set.

[Pattern Ghost]

I thought they had a new Titans title come out recently? I was thinking you were talking about that one. I like the old New Teen Titans, though I never read the earliest issues. =)

[Pattern Ghost]

Hmm, I'm off to my library's site to reserve a copy of the old New Teen Titans.

[JmOz]

Yse there is a current title called Teen Titans

 

It is on issue 4 IIRC

 

Membership

 

Cyborg (Leader), Starfire, Beast Boy, Raven (allegidly), Robin, Kid Flash (Impulse), Superboy, Wonger Girl

 

Pretty Decent

 

Sister Book Outsiders

 

Membership:

 

Nightwing (Leader), Arsenal, Metamorpho, Jade, 3-4 other members who are new characters

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by Agent Escafarc

This is for real though in truth it's just any physical contact for her to learn. It's just that in the first issue of The New Teen Titans she learns English by kissing Robin so the image has stuck:D

 

OK, when you said "sexual contact" I guess I took you literally.

 

Oh, and I didn't mean to hijack this thread into a NTT discussion. Oops.

[Lightray]

Originally posted by Agent X

I didn't know they had made a distinction between skills and powers when reasoning to effect?

Sorry, I see I was a bit too brusque writing that comment.

 

I meant that as a suggestion of reasoning someone might take. I'm not aware there's been a distinction made between Skills and Powers. Just that I've noticed people over the years behaving as if there were.

[Capt Aardvark]

I agree with Mr. Negative. (Hmm, that's a fun sentence.) Using the skill and maneuvers of 'Martial Arts' can be done a zillion different ways, depending on who's using them and how. Sometimes a few CSLs are all you need to show that your hero is a master of combat, and sometimes you need all the fancy maneuvers.

In my campaigns, if you only learn about combat, you aren't a true (capital letter) Martial Artist, though. You gotta learn the philosophy, the history, the discipline like an actual martial artist. Take a few Knowledge Skills in esoteric stuff the GM can't possibly work into an adventure, and then dare him (or her) to do it! 'Waste' a point or two on Weapon Familiarities with special martial weapons. Buy up your Ego or Presence a point or two to show your willpower and confidence! Then you will be a true seeker, a true Jedi, a true artist.

The thing I don't care for in my campaigns (pet peeve department) is when the PCs buy books that I (the GM) don't have yet, discover new and exciting martial moves, and then incorporate them into their characters. I suppose I could be a meany and say "Nothing out of non-GM books", but I'm just too blamed nice. So now the villains are getting 'Shoved', etc., but can't do it back! Apparently the solution is to buy all the books, but there are a lot of books these days, and I'm one of those gamers with a family. Maybe soon.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Capt Aardvark

I agree with Mr. Negative. (Hmm, that's a fun sentence.) Using the skill and maneuvers of 'Martial Arts' can be done a zillion different ways, depending on who's using them and how. Sometimes a few CSLs are all you need to show that your hero is a master of combat, and sometimes you need all the fancy maneuvers.

In my campaigns, if you only learn about combat, you aren't a true (capital letter) Martial Artist, though. You gotta learn the philosophy, the history, the discipline like an actual martial artist. Take a few Knowledge Skills in esoteric stuff the GM can't possibly work into an adventure, and then dare him (or her) to do it! 'Waste' a point or two on Weapon Familiarities with special martial weapons. Buy up your Ego or Presence a point or two to show your willpower and confidence! Then you will be a true seeker, a true Jedi, a true artist.

The thing I don't care for in my campaigns (pet peeve department) is when the PCs buy books that I (the GM) don't have yet, discover new and exciting martial moves, and then incorporate them into their characters. I suppose I could be a meany and say "Nothing out of non-GM books", but I'm just too blamed nice. So now the villains are getting 'Shoved', etc., but can't do it back! Apparently the solution is to buy all the books, but there are a lot of books these days, and I'm one of those gamers with a family. Maybe soon.

Demand they let you borrow their books for a while or do what Gygax suggested in AD&D and have a club fund to supply the gamers with needed supplies, like reference materials for the GM.

[megaplayboy]

Well, there's this group of guys known as Z-fighters, who all happen to be martial artist/brick/speedster/energy-projectors who can fly and have enhanced senses, all in concept.

I understand the need to keep games balanced, but sometimes at cons and in other groups I have found that the only thing more annoying than munchkins at times are extreme control freak GMs:rolleyes:

 

there's a fine line between "tough but fair" and "hardass"...

 

Sometimes fixating on game mechanics to either extreme(munchkinism or what I now dub nitpickism) can just kill all the joy in a game.

[Vondy]

I ask: how is allowing a brick to take martial maneuvers that do not increase damage classes, and requiring it be in concept for the tone of the game, being a hardass?

 

My issue is that most martial maneuvers increase damage or strength quotients, which brick doesn't need unless he's really a quasi-brick, which is another concept altogether.

 

I still don't like having teams of martial artists unless I'm running a martial arts oriented game (or a genre where martial artist isn't a "concept" like espionage), and I make no bones about being a hardass from time to time. Not all teams are GI Joe Ninja Force.

 

If there's a maneuver they can't simulate with the standard maneuvers and skill levels then they should take it, otherwise the player needs to think long and hard about why its there.

 

Is it there because the character would have it, or because they want the character to have it? I've heard several people here bitch about hardass GMs, but their are hardcase players, too. If its a brick who has block defined as "take it on the chin" I'll be fairly forgiving - if its a brick with a whole ninjitsu suite I'm going to be mean and controlling and unpopular.

 

And the caveat to that is - no one who doesn't like the way I run my game is herded by gun to the gaming table.

[JmOz]

Okay, here is a simple one:

 

A brick taking Offensive Strike calling it a Haymaker (This perfectly represents the Thing) This does not increase his damage (as normaly he could do a Haymaker for +4DC)

[Gary]

Originally posted by D-Man

I ask: how is allowing a brick to take martial maneuvers that do not increase damage classes, insofar as there is a plausible explanation, being a "hardass"?

 

Rather than buying maneuvers that add DC, it's more efficient to buy Str up to the campaign maximum and then buy Defensive Strike for the CV bonuses.

[megaplayboy]

Originally posted by D-Man

I ask: how is allowing a brick to take martial maneuvers that do not increase damage classes, insofar as there is a plausible explanation, being a "hardass"?

 

Well, as I was saying, there's a fine line. I think judicious perusal of a character sheet is just fine, but I have known some people who took it too far.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by JmOz

Okay, here is a simple one:

 

A brick taking Offensive Strike calling it a Haymaker (This perfectly represents the Thing) This does not increase his damage (as normaly he could do a Haymaker for +4DC)

 

It does increase it if he decides to haymaker with the offensive strike, but since I like the old style haymaker I might okay it. It would depend on the particular game.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Gary

Rather than buying maneuvers that add DC, it's more efficient to buy Str up to the campaign maximum and then buy Defensive Strike for the CV bonuses.

 

And that is something I tend to be more forgiving about - insofar as the team doesn't start to resemble GI Joe Ninja Force...

 

My long term team has a flying brick who leared kung fu from the team martial artist over a period of time. All of the strikes were simulated with that very maneuver - defensive strike.

 

Since she had lighter defenses than most bricks (25/25 Hardened/Resistant) and a higher dex it made an odd sort of sense - and more importantly - the martial artist player felt it enhanced his schtick (since he had a pupil) instead of infringing on it.

 

I do tend to raise an eyebrow, however, when every character handed to me has: Martial Dodge, or an entire martial arts suite.

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by D-Man

It does increase it if he decides to haymaker with the offensive strike, but since I like the old style haymaker I might okay it. It would depend on the particular game.

 

Fred, p. 257. He can't decide to Haymaker with his Offensive Strike.

[Alibear]

Some characters will have a power level that they reach and can't increase raw power, others won't and always keep pushing the envelope.

 

Does it make more sense to go from 60-70 str, in effect quadrupling strength, or learn to use what you already have to its maximum?

 

Bricks with Boxing? It makes sense to me, especially as these people put thier lives on the line daily and survive only by thier Martial skills.

 

All characters should eventually learn MAs IMHO and apply it to whatever power source they have, be that muscles, TK, Force Balsts or trick Arrows.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by D-Man

I ask: how is allowing a brick to take martial maneuvers that do not increase damage classes, and requiring it be in concept for the tone of the game, being a hardass?

 

My issue is that most martial maneuvers increase damage or strength quotients, which brick doesn't need unless he's really a quasi-brick, which is another concept altogether.

 

I still don't like having teams of martial artists unless I'm running a martial arts oriented game (or a genre where martial artist isn't a "concept" like espionage), and I make no bones about being a hardass from time to time. Not all teams are GI Joe Ninja Force.

 

If there's a maneuver they can't simulate with the standard maneuvers and skill levels then they should take it, otherwise the player needs to think long and hard about why its there.

 

Is it there because the character would have it, or because they want the character to have it? I've heard several people here bitch about hardass GMs, but their are hardcase players, too. If its a brick who has block defined as "take it on the chin" I'll be fairly forgiving - if its a brick with a whole ninjitsu suite I'm going to be mean and controlling and unpopular.

 

And the caveat to that is - no one who doesn't like the way I run my game is herded by gun to the gaming table.

"Is it there because the character would have it, or because they want the character to have it?" - My philosophy is, as long as the player isn't dumping on somebody elses' schtick for a character that doesn't upset game balance and the character's skills & powers are explained, then the character should get to be built the way the players want to have it. "Tone of the game" means different things to different people.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Alibear

Some characters will have a power level that they reach and can't increase raw power, others won't and always keep pushing the envelope.

 

Does it make more sense to go from 60-70 str, in effect quadrupling strength, or learn to use what you already have to its maximum?

 

Bricks with Boxing? It makes sense to me, especially as these people put thier lives on the line daily and survive only by thier Martial skills.

 

All characters should eventually learn MAs IMHO and apply it to whatever power source they have, be that muscles, TK, Force Balsts or trick Arrows.

Bricks with martial arts makes a lot of sense. The Thing knows boxing, wrestling, and more esoteric grappling styles. Superman knows Kluxor. Martial Arts in stories tend to have two different approaches: there is the adventurer who knows how to fight and the martial arts master. Martial Arts maneuvers alone does not a martial arts master make.

[JmOz]

Originally posted by D-Man

It does increase it if he decides to haymaker with the offensive strike, but since I like the old style haymaker I might okay it. It would depend on the particular game.

 

Except for the simple fact that you can not Haymaker with MA Manuvers, as it would be doing two different manuvers. (You can not Haymaker anything but a strike, be it ranged or HtH)

[Alibear]

Originally posted by Agent X

Martial Arts maneuvers alone does not a martial arts master make.

 

Spoken like a true master, Doug.

[bubba smith]

Re: Martial Arts in Superheroic Games

 

and with people combining boxing and wrestling and calling it "mixed martial arts" more and more it compounds any attempt to ban MA from a game

the characters would be defensless without their powers or gagets [like the super-friends were because of ABC TV'S standards &practices at the time the show was made]

[Vulcan]

Re: Martial Arts in Superheroic Games

 

BUBBAMANCY!

 

A lot of my characters have had martial arts. I'd like to think that it was always an essential part of the character and not just my inner munchkin comming out - but I have to be honest to myself and say it's possible that I have occasionally engineered MA into a character because I wanted them... But even Siberian Tiger, my munched-out combat monster, had a good rationale for MA (probably better for that than for the rest of his ridiculous power suite).

 

But MA and a lot of the archetypes work surpisingly well together. A gun/energy projector could easily know some commando maneuvers from military training. Shapechanging spys might get a little commando training as well. Bricks might be skilled at boxing or wrestling.

 

In the final analysis, if MA both fits the character, and fits the AP/CV limits of the game, there really shouldn't be too much problem with it.

[GoldenAge]

Re: Martial Arts in Superheroic Games

 

I usually demand that Martial Arts of any kind be associated with an indepth description of how the character learned and maintains his skills. Usually, this keeps the use of martial maneuvers to the characters totally dedicated to martial arts (Captain America/Daredevil/Iron Fist/Karate Kid/Karnak... etc.). Characters that spend all of their spare moments on magic, machines, science, etc rarely have the time to split between the their core compentancy and martial arts.

 

Now, I'm not saying that the scientist isn't capable of spending a hour a day to practice some form of martial art... However, we're talking superheroic level martial arts. The average Tai-Ch'i-Ch'uan or Wu Shu practitioner wouldn't be effective against superheroes (or a big, angry [sober] thug with a gun for that matter). Thus... Real martial arts (purchased manuevers) are limited to those who dedicate their lives to the pursuit of perfection in combat. Otherwise, its all just a background story perhaps reflected in a few Knowledge Skills or maybe even Analyze (for those who study a lot but do not practice).

 

As for Bricks... who taught them? It would require a master of unparalleled skill to modify so many maneuvers to the requirements of many Bricks... And, then, why would a Brick (someone who can smash a car into dust) need to learn how to amplify his attack capability?

 

Is it possible that a Brick can learn a martial art? Sure. But it's far less likely. Its more reasonable to assume a Brick will spend his time honing his natural abilities, which translates much better as Brick Tricks than Martial Arts.

 

So, I guess I'm saying that I (as a GM and Player) regulate the use of Martial Arts (in a superheroic campaign) through backgrounds and character development.