Gods in Champions

[RDU Neil]

Quick question... I don't have any of the Hero books in front of me, but I believe in one of them Steve Long states that he figures that statting out the Gods... (like Apollo, Zeus, Ra, Thor... whomever) would be around 2500 points, or something like that.

 

Now, while Hero 5th is marginally more expensive than 4th Edition... and a book like The Olympians presented a low power (IMO) version of the Greek pantheon... I still think 2500 points is really over the top... but maybe not.

 

Has there been any "god" write up done for 5th Edition? My team is going up against Set, fully manifested and really pissed off, and I'm looking for some guidelines. Obviously I'll tweak him to fit my game... but when I see Dr. Destroyer as more powerful than a write up of Zeus himself... well I guess I'm just looking for some other reference points.

 

Again, I've statted out my own Set... but if there is a "god template" out there that is well formed and well thought out in 5th Edition stats, I'd love to take a look... just to see if I've forgotten anything significant.

 

Thanks

[misterdeath]

In the FWIW department, the Steve quote is in the Hero Universe .pdf http://www.herogames.com/FreeStuff/freedocs.htm

 

lesser god 2500 up to 7500 to greater one.

 

Don't see any other information. Hmmm. Not being much help, am I?

 

D

[Starlord]

Just guessing here, but those might indicate the proper way to write-up a 'god' to be exclusively worshipped in a Fantasy Hero game. They'll be written up on 2500+ points, but really aren't meant to be interacted with.

 

Use of a god-like character in a Champions game would be much lower in my opinion. For example, if I wanted Marvel's Thor to 'fairly' interact with the current Champions Universe, I'd probably make him approximately as powerful as Firewing or Gravitar.

[RDU Neil]

Whoa...

 

7500 points? Clearly Steve and I have very different ideas about what constitutes a "god."

 

What is "lesser" and "greater" mean?

 

Never would have thought of Thor as a lesser god, but you can make that character on a 1000 points, easy.

 

Guess this is why I asked the question. What are all those other points for? Is it just every power and every skill in the book at ennormous levels?

 

Well... thanks for the quote...

[RDU Neil]

Ah HA!

 

Ok... if we are talking a Fantasy Hero god... with all kinds of global/universal senses and creation powers and transformations... I guess that makes sense. That puts things on a religious level... not a super hero level.

 

Still... I was hoping for a write up of a "Thor" or "Ra" kind of character. Guess I'll go with what I've created, and hope I haven't missed anything critical.

 

Lucky for my players, I think of gods as just really powerful superhumans... and not omnipotent deities.

 

That means a couple of them might survive this battle with Set!

 

(Just kidding... I think they are going to be quite the match for this god of violence and chaos seeking to regain his past glories.)

[misterdeath]

Originally posted by Starlord

Just guessing here, but those might indicate the proper way to write-up a 'god' to be exclusively worshipped in a Fantasy Hero game. They'll be written up on 2500+ points, but really aren't meant to be interacted with.

 

Use of a god-like character in a Champions game would be much lower in my opinion. For example, if I wanted Marvel's Thor to 'fairly' interact with the current Champions Universe, I'd probably make him approximately as powerful as Firewing or Gravitar.

 

Upon reflection, I agree with both parts of this. 2500 is a wussy fantasy god.

 

For a super hero adversary god, I'd just make something in the 1000-2000 point range that can compete with my guys.

 

Set, hmm, he's a badarse. So, he'd probably be on the higher end.

 

I'm sure what you've got will be just fine, Neil. Kick their asses.

 

D

[Ghost who Walks]

I have a lot of gods IMC.

 

For the most part, they pass on their powers occasionally through genetics.

 

Most are desended from a group of humans given superpowers to fight an alien invasion, 20,000 years ago. (The Titans)

 

This allows them to pop up all the time in scenarios and history. (being a former history major, I run most of official history as false)

 

Point wise, they go up to around 1,000 points. Most of their points are spent on skills, however. I use their lack of raw power as the reason they haven't been out conquering the world for the past few centuries.

 

The only real templates I use are the ones for the oiginal Titans, and for the descendents of Isis.

 

Titans pool: Superstrong, Immortal, Growth, psionic powers.

 

Isis pool: Occasional psionics, wings.

 

I had Set show up recently also

[Blue]

Ya know, this morning I was thinking about the very topic of Gods and how it might be an interesting experiment to have players make their own pantheon. Give them a point spread, have them pick a sphere or spheres of influence, and put together their own pantheon to play while I throw world changing events at them. I certainly have enough players to cover a whole pantheon. Problem would be running them. What kind of oppostion do you give to, not just a God, but a group of them! How many times a week can the Kraken show up? How often can they have to slay Tiamat? I was trying to figure out good foes for them without making everything more powerful than they are! Doesn't seem I could sustain a whole campaign on it. So I killed the idea before 9am this morning.

 

Now you guys have gone and gotten me thinking about it again.

[Monolith]

CKC has Anubis (God avatar) at 535 points, Lei Kung the Thunderer at 588 points, and Guan Di at 483 points. So depending on the God I do not think they need to be too powerful, especially within a Champions game. I would imagine that Thor would clock in at around 1,500 points now, and Hercules would probably come in at around 800. So I think it is fair to assume a range of 400 to 2,500 depending upon the nature of the God in question.

[Lord Liaden]

Do you have the 5E villain collection, Conquerors, Killers and Crooks? One of the villain writeups is for Anubis, an avatar of an Egyptian god, with cool theme powers like "Curse of Scorpions" and "Armies of the Dead." He's built on 535 points, with max attack of 14 DC and Defense of 30, but he'd be easy to upgrade; he doesn't have a lot of the "bells and whistles" of godly abilities.

 

There are also two Chinese gods in the same book, Lei Kung and Guang Di. They're no more powerful than Anubis - in fact Lei Kung was based on Anubis's writeup, as an example of how to adapt the villains in CKC to other purposes.

 

Now, if you want writeups of godlike characters appropriate as foes for supeheroes in high-powered campaigns, I'd suggest taking a look at the various Demon Princes in the Bestiary. These nasties are really tricked out: built on between 1200 and 1400 points, with a wide variety of formidable powers including cosmic Variable Power Pools between 60 and 120 Active Points. Not quite as awesome in raw power as Dr. D, but perhaps even more versatile. Each one has his own specialty: the Prince of Power and Prince of Strength are awesome combat monsters, while the Prince of Guile makes a fine trickster god.

[Hermit]

Also, don't forget, depending on how you've set up your universe, you can put 'limits' on the gods that keep them from being totally undefeatable.

 

You could say they had to become somewhat human to survive, merely 'demi-gods'.

 

Perhaps they can't appear on earth themselves, but one can defeat their champions, or personal avatars, effectively cutting off their ability to interact directly with mankind.

 

etc

 

I've had a great deal of fun using "Gwydion the Gray" of Welsh mythos as a mystic/metamorph member of my NPC JL type team.

[JmOz]

One essential power easy ot forget is Regen from death (only killabe by other Gods or God Killer weapons)

[Dr. MID-Nite]

As it so happens, using the 4th edition module as a basic starting point, I designed 5th edition versions of all the Olympians gods. My version of Zeus was 1464 points and more than powerful enough to fit into the standard comic book universes. Basically, I gave the gods their "sphere of influence" powers....and then a small variable power pool to represent divine abilities of a mundane nature. The more powerful the god, the better the power pool. As an example, Zeus had a 40 point variable power pool(cosmic), which was twice as large as a standard god like Ares or Aphrodite. Beyond the power pools and general rewrite of the 4th edition versions, my biggest change was improving their stats. No god should have a 10 EGO in my opinion. Based on pure stubborness alone it should be higher. " I will bow before no mere mortal." Most of the other gods fit in between 600-1200 points. The most expensive being Apollo, Hades, and Poseidon. I think I lowered the DEX on many of them to fit in with 5th edition standards, but in return they got boosted EGO, PRE, and BODY...among other things.

 

Rob

[JeffreyWKramer]

One of the player characters in my campaign *is* a god - Horus-Re. Essentially, he's a Thor-like character with a sun theme. In terms of power level, think Apollo from THE AUTHORITY. It's a high-powered campaign, but he's built on a bit higher point total than the other PCs. In exchange for that, he gets all the cosmic Hunteds and such.

 

Really, it all depends on how you define a god. Thor is awesomely powerful, but there are Marvel Universe characters who can beat him - including some rare mortals.

[RDU Neil]

Hey, thanks all. I'd looked at Anubis and found him a bit wanting in the power category (but a good start).

 

What I had not thought of was the Demon Princes in the Bestiary. Thanks for that. Should offer some of the trickier insights I was looking for.

 

This current storyline has morphed into "what is the nature of godhood" because at least one PC was close to "crossing the threshold" and moving into realms far from human. There are established reasons why the gods don't just roam the earth... but there is also a bit of misinformation about what exactly are the gods... what do they represent... what is their relationship to humanity... and are superheroes the new gods?... kind of thing going on.

 

As the PCs are mostly in the 500-600 point range... 150+150 starting level, so years of EXP to get them here... Anubis would just be one of the boys, and not a total threat to the team. Set will probably turn out a lot higher, just to give the Vanguard (our team) a challenge.

 

Thanks again for all your input.

[megaplayboy]

Well, in Fantasy terms, IIRC, the old writeups in Allston's "Mythic Greece" book ran to about 3800 points or so, and the ones in "Mythic egypt" were at about 1000, due to use of a 200 point VPP!

 

Infinite Man(?) from the old Alien Enemies is a good example of a "godlike" being in Champions.

 

Keep in mind gods will have perks(followers, bases, etc) out the yin yang, have several skills at superhuman levels(e.g., a proper greater god of war will have a 30+ tactics roll), and have a lot of attack powers which affect multiple targets.

 

Greater gods can typically turn a group of mortals into swine, for example, and that ain't cheap;)

 

But you could probably divide those numbers by 2 or 3 for a superhero game to get fair stats for deities in Champions.

 

But Odin or Zeus should probably be a little tougher than Dr. D, IMHO.

[bryanb]

Originally posted by RDU Neil

Hey, thanks all. I'd looked at Anubis and found him a bit wanting in the power category (but a good start).

 

What I had not thought of was the Demon Princes in the Bestiary. Thanks for that. Should offer some of the trickier insights I was looking for.

 

This current storyline has morphed into "what is the nature of godhood" because at least one PC was close to "crossing the threshold" and moving into realms far from human. There are established reasons why the gods don't just roam the earth... but there is also a bit of misinformation about what exactly are the gods... what do they represent... what is their relationship to humanity... and are superheroes the new gods?... kind of thing going on.

 

As the PCs are mostly in the 500-600 point range... 150+150 starting level, so years of EXP to get them here... Anubis would just be one of the boys, and not a total threat to the team. Set will probably turn out a lot higher, just to give the Vanguard (our team) a challenge.

 

Thanks again for all your input.

 

Hey RDU,

 

When you come up with a writeup could you post it? I am introducing Anubis, Ra and Set into my campaign soon and would love a writeup to peruse.

 

Thanks

 

Daz