New Perquisite On The Drawingboard: Anonymous Holdings

[Marcus Impudite]

The idea is a character who takes this Perk has stashed a portion or all of his/her money in some form of anonymous holdings (i.e., Swiss Bank Account, Caymen Islands Bank Account, Cryptocurrency Wallet, etc.). It would be costed based on how well hidden the account would be from tax authorities, each level of the Perk giving a -1 vs. the Skill rolls said authorities would bring to bear in an effort to find and freeze the account. I first need to decide what is a fair cost per Level and second need some good real world bench marks for the Perk (what level would a Swiss Bank Account likely be? How would the Caymen Islands Account and The Cryptocurrency Wallet compare?) Thoughts?

[dmjalund]

how much is it work to hide money from tax people?

 

I'm not sure it is even worth 1 point.

[IndianaJoe3]

I'm not sure what sort of game this would come up in. Maybe something cyberpunkish? Anyway, I can think of a couple of ways to handle it.

• A variant of the Deep Cover perk
• Wealth, Requires a Roll, Side Effect (Watched by authorities)

[Vondy]

how much is it work to hide money from tax people?

 

I'm not sure it is even worth 1 point.

 

It wouldn't just be the "tax people." Law enforcement, intelligence agencies, and a host of other people can locate you, track your money and spending, and get a very good idea of what you are up to if they can link the accounts to you. The question is, is this best handled as a perk? You could do it like the "hard to detect" modifier for senses to represent how well hidden it is. Or an adder to wealth like "hidden funds." On the other hand, I can't help but think this could also done via a professional skill of some sort - financier, banker, money-launderer, forensic accounting, tax attorney, etc. Or a contact -- off-shore guru, mob banker, etc.

[Vondy]

 

I'm not sure what sort of game this would come up in. Maybe something cyberpunkish?

 

 

I'm sure Bruce Wayne doesn't want the authorities or his rogue's gallery tracking the money for the bat toys to his secret identity...

[Marcus Impudite]

The whole point of the Perk is that the character has indeed spoken to the "off-shore guru" and already has the secret account (or accounts) set up. As stated above, the minuses from each level applies against whatever Skill rolls (Forensic Accounting, etc.) the authorities would use to try and find and freeze the account. In other words, the more secure the account is against being found and seized, the more points the Perk costs. It's related to but not necessarily part of the Money Perk as the character may not have put all of his/her money into that one secret account. Hell, it's not unheard of for someone to have multiple such accounts so if one of them gets compromised by investigators, they won't lose everything (i.e., the character spent points for more than one such Perk and put small portions of their overall money into each account for safe keeping, "don't put all your eggs in one basket" and all that jazz). As for what kind of campaign this Perk is for, all I'm at liberty to say is it's a world with a lot of shady dealings going on.

 

Let's say for the sake of this discussion that a Caymen Islands Bank Account is 3-points and gives a -3 for purposes of the assets put into it being discovered and siezed, and we'll go ahead and say a Swiss Bank Account is 2-points and gives a -2 for purposes of being discovered and sieze (it's a well estabished fact that the Caymen bankers make their Swiss counterparts look like stool pigeons), how would other forms of Anonymous Holdings measure up? Would, for example, a Cryptocurrency Wallet realistically be more secure or less secure than the Swiss and Caymen accounts?

[Vondy]

The whole point of the Perk is that the character has indeed spoken to the "off-shore guru" and already has the secret account (or accounts) set up.

 

The whole point of my post was 1) to brainstorm different options, and 2) to provide my thoughts on the matter.

 

You did ask for our thoughts, didn't you?

 

I mentioned the perk option. I mentioned some other ideas that came to mind. I'm not sure what you are looking for.

 

One thing I will add is this: hero has grown increasingly granular in recent editions and fits one particular approach to character design.

 

Characters design has, as a result, become more expensive and increasingly shifted towards an "every detail must be on the sheet" style.

 

That is one way to do it, but its not the only way. I prefer a simpler design style where some things are handled by concept, effects, or genre-sense.

 

I am not sure if this actually needs to be spelled out . But, if you are the GM and think its necessary - its your game.

[Greywind]

I'm sure Bruce Wayne doesn't want the authorities or his rogue's gallery tracking the money for the bat toys to his secret identity...

 

Too late. That was how Ra's originally figured out who the Batman was.

[Greywind]

The whole point of the Perk is that the character has indeed spoken to the "off-shore guru" and already has the secret account (or accounts) set up. As stated above, the minuses from each level applies against whatever Skill rolls (Forensic Accounting, etc.) the authorities would use to try and find and freeze the account. In other words, the more secure the account is against being found and seized, the more points the Perk costs. It's related to but not necessarily part of the Money Perk as the character may not have put all of his/her money into that one secret account. Hell, it's not unheard of for someone to have multiple such accounts so if one of them gets compromised by investigators, they won't lose everything (i.e., the character spent points for more than one such Perk and put small portions of their overall money into each account for safe keeping, "don't put all your eggs in one basket" and all that jazz). As for what kind of campaign this Perk is for, all I'm at liberty to say is it's a world with a lot of shady dealings going on.

 

Let's say for the sake of this discussion that a Caymen Islands Bank Account is 3-points and gives a -3 for purposes of the assets put into it being discovered and siezed, and we'll go ahead and say a Swiss Bank Account is 2-points and gives a -2 for purposes of being discovered and sieze (it's a well estabished fact that the Caymen bankers make their Swiss counterparts look like stool pigeons), how would other forms of Anonymous Holdings measure up? Would, for example, a Cryptocurrency Wallet realistically be more secure or less secure than the Swiss and Caymen accounts?

 

While the accounts may be found out, what authority does U.S. (assuming that's where your game is based) law enforcement have to seize accounts in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands? Isn't that the main reason why those places are used?

[dmjalund]

how about extra wealth with the limitation Only In Alternate ID?

[Grailknight]

The Deep Cover perk has many aspects of what you want. Buying it and wealth in tandem should cover it .

[Lucius]

While the accounts may be found out, what authority does U.S. (assuming that's where your game is based) law enforcement have to seize accounts in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands? Isn't that the main reason why those places are used?

It's not just a question of them being seized or frozen. There is the issue of trying to prevent investigators from learning anything about you, your doings, who you're doing business with, etc.

 

"Invisible Power Effects" on the Wealth Perk would be one way to do it; but Marcus Impudite isn't looking for ways to do it, he's already decided. It's boing to be bought as penalties to any Skill roll related to finding, tracking, or analyzing the funds. He wants to know "How many Character Points for a -1 penalty?" which only he can answer because the rest of us don't understand the game or context, and "How do I use it to simulate various phenomena such as a Swiss Bank Account etc?" which he might get an answer to privately because it calls for familiarity with shady financial dealings no one is likely to openly admit to.

 

Personally I'd buy each account as a Base and give each Base the Disguise and Concealment Skills at whatever levels seem appropriate, and say each "Base" is where a certain amount of wealth is stashed.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Hidden offshore palindromedaries

[IndianaJoe3]

I think that Change Environment is now the canonical was to give penalties to skill rolls.

[Greywind]

It's not just a question of them being seized or frozen. There is the issue of trying to prevent investigators from learning anything about you, your doings, who you're doing business with, etc.

If they can't freeze or seize, they can't monitor, so it stands to reason that there would be no roll. The only thing that they might find is that the account exists.

[Vondy]

While the accounts may be found out, what authority does U.S. (assuming that's where your game is based) law enforcement have to seize accounts in Switzerland or the Cayman Islands? Isn't that the main reason why those places are used?

Its not a question of authority. Its a question of power. The US has the technological means to interdict the digital transfer of monies in most parts of the world. The US also has the power, due to the heavy global investiture in the dollar, to seize funds held in escrow by foreign banks in the US, or being transferred through such accounts - or account in nations with reciprocal arrangements with the US. The self-justification for behaving like an 800 pound banking gorilla is "terrorism" as defined in the Patriot Act. There have been not-very-happy "discussions" of this among EU lawmakers about this in the wake of the Edward Snowdon leaks. Our national security authorities are basically sailing under letter of marque upon the online banking seas.

[Vondy]

If they can't freeze or seize, they can't monitor, so it stands to reason that there would be no roll. The only thing that they might find is that the account exists.

 

That would be inaccurate at best -- as the Snowdon leaks on "five eyes" have made abundantly clear.

[ghost-angel]

Build it like the Resistance Talent, possibly? Since you're looking for a Perk that modifies Skill Rolls, the opposite end is what you're after is something like Bonuses to Concealment for the purposes of hiding financial holdings and transactions. Which is 2/+1, with a Limitation of only versus financial aspects, probably a 1/1 cost. For every point in the Perk it's a -1 to attempts to find the money/bank accounts.

 

At that point, it's really up to the Game to decide on the scale. Swiss Banks report things these days I think, if that's the standard "I'm hiding my money" bank, make that a -2. "I just have a bunch of bank accounts in regular US banks under assumed IDs" would be the 0 Benchmark for hiding your financial trail. After that, you really just need to decide where each bank falls to satisfy your games needs. Trying to hard to compare "real world" stuff will just make you crazy.

[Kraven Kor]

Wouldn't this just be Wealth with the "Invisible" advantage?

 

I use Wealth in my FH campaigns; if you take wealth as is, you have income - lands, holdings, a shop or smithy or ranch you own, etc.  If you take "Wealth (Starting Funds Only -1)" then you just get some extra starting cash / gear with no real source of income.

[Vondy]

Wouldn't this just be Wealth with the "Invisible" advantage?

 

I use Wealth in my FH campaigns; if you take wealth as is, you have income - lands, holdings, a shop or smithy or ranch you own, etc.  If you take "Wealth (Starting Funds Only -1)" then you just get some extra starting cash / gear with no real source of income.

 

And, while we're at it, is an ATM really just megascale teleport for wealth with limited quantities available per use and at any giving fixed target hex per use?

[Sean Waters]

If you want to buy this as some sort of penalty to forensic accounting rolls (Analyze: finances) then you will need big penalties.  First of all the people looking are probably pretty good at what they do, 14- or better rolls.  Then they have a lot of resources to throw at the problem, so they are going to get +4 or better from that.  Then they can spend a long time looking, in the order of months or years, so they get significant time bonuses.  The only reason they do not know everything is that there are a LOT of bank accounts to look at, and a lot of financial transactions and unless their computers throw up an anomaly, or they are looking at someone specific for another reason, all of that might is spread thin.

 

Nonetheless, if you wanted to protect yourself from that sort of investigation, you would need to be able to apply penalties of, probably, 15 or more to even get their chances below 50/50, if they decided to take an interest.

 

On the other hand, they probably only get to look when something happens with an account that is linked to something they already know about; another account, your computer, or physically going there if they are watching.  This means that it is probably relatively easy to hide money in an account you will only ever want to access in an emergency, so long as you take some basic precautions in setting it up, like not making a single lump sum transfer and not using your real name, for starters.

 

I would suggest that having a hidden account is probably best bought as whatever wealth level you want (bought with a single charge to show that it is a lump sum, not an income)

in there plus a custom adder (if you can add adders to perks...):

 

1 Point - you set up the account in an alternative identity and is unlikely to be spotted unless you access it.

2 Points - the account was set up through a trusted third party and will not be spotted unless you access it, and, even if you do, any 'financial observation' attempts take a -3 penalty.

+1 point  - additional -3 penalty to any financial perception rolls.

 

NB the money should be considered completely secure at the 2 point level or greater, if it is just sitting there - but as soon as an attempt to access it is made that will potentially trigger observation.  Of course it could be accesses by a third party, but money these days tends to be electronic: hardly anyone cart bullion or diamonds about, and, if they did, selling them could attract attention.

[dmjalund]

sounds like buying concealment for a base - except it's for your wealth