Iron Age Topic: Superhuman killing spree

[megaplayboy]

This is a pretty dark topic for discussion, but I think it might be appropriate for some Iron Age-y campaign settings, or even travel to alternate worlds where a certain dangerous villain wasn't stopped in time. Namely, if you dropped a superhuman into a crowded urban setting and had them just suddenly go berserk and start attacking people, how many would they kill before being stopped? A normal human with a melee weapon(hammer, sword, knife, etc.) would probably only be able to harm a half dozen or so before most people would run for shelter and they were either tackled by civilians or shot by arriving police. A normal human with a handgun, as has been sadly demonstrated IRL, could potentially kill a few dozen people before being stopped by police. If the human had fully automatic weapons, body armor and a lot of ammo, maybe they could injure or kill a hundred people.

 

All of that is horrifying enough. But what about a superhuman? For starters, let's say one with abilities which are underwhelming by most campaign standards. A 40 STR, 5 CV, SPD 4, and 8 resistant defense(and enough total defense to shrug off a few handgun hits in succession). Also, just a little bit of extra movement. They can make 4 attacks per turn and 20 attacks per minute. An average attack will seriously injure a normal human, and two in a row will likely leave them dead or dying. They are also just strong enough to pick up the average car and throw it a few meters, a potential casualty multiplier.

A fast response time for police is 3 minutes. That's 60 attacks before the first real resistance is encountered(let's leave the heroes out of the equation for the moment). When the first police car arrives, the superhuman immediately shifts over to attacking them. Assuming one additional car arrives every turn for the next five turns, it's entirely possible the superhuman could injure, kill or disable every first responder.

By this time the horrifying news has reached the chief of police. Assume for some reason the resident superhero team is out of town and can't be reached. The chief calls up every SWAT unit in the city and places a call to the governor to request National Guard support.

Finally, after about 15 minutes, around 30 SWAT team members, with assault rifles and sniper rifles, manage to put enough firepower on target to subdue the superhuman. The threat is ended. The death toll is shocking. Over 60 dead and dozens more injured, including around 20 police officers.

 

And that's a "weak" superhuman.

 

So, some "food for thought" questions:

1. what if this was the campaign world's first real experience with superhumans? How would that impact public perception and government response?

2. What if this did happen while the campaign superteam was out dealing with some other menace? How would that affect their treatment upon their return?

3. How would the ability set and power level of the superhuman spree killer affect their, uh, kill rate? Would there be some power sets that would make a superhuman an especially dangerous threat?

 

 

Sorry, I'll go back to posting pics of buff kangaroos after this. Promise.

[assault]

The body count here is similar to Anders Breivik's massacre in Norway, although Breivik's rampage lasted much longer long, due to police response times. A lot of potential victims had escaped by then, while others were in hiding, so it is likely that his casualty rate diminished over time.

 

A similar limiting factor might apply in the superhuman rampage, depending on his/her/its movement capabilities, and whether or not they are used to seek new victims.

 

1. Police would be given new equipment, more capable of handling such threats. "Registration" probably wouldn't be a thing outside certain media outlets. Australian gun laws were tightened after the Port Arthur massacre, but inherent powers and weapons aren't the same thing.

 

2. Provided the team say something appropriate, no change in their treatment should occur, outside a cr*psack world. In the latter, of course, they will be blamed for the whole thing, just because they exist. (I probably wouldn't bother to play in such a game).

 

3. Obviously more powerful and mobile superhumans would be able to inflict more casualties. Smashing buildings, destroying bridges, flooding subway tunnels and so on would be more deadly than just punching people on the street, all else being equal.

[megaplayboy]

It also occurs to me that superhumans with area-affecting attack powers, like explosion, or certain sfx like fire, could be more lethal more quickly. A truly terrifying scenario is that of a Eurostar type team singling out a city for an "object lesson", taking out the resident NPC superhero team first, then cutting off avenues of escape while rampaging through.

[assault]

The fundamental issue, if this is to be related to an actual campaign, rather than just idle chatter, is "what is the narrative point of all this"?

 

The destruction of Detroit in the official CU probably featured a much higher body count, but it's not dwelt upon, and the point is the reconstruction of Detroit as Millennium City.

 

Is it to raise the emotional stakes in tracking down/stopping the Bad Guys? It would work, but dwelling on it past a certain point is dubious.

 

Is it a strawman for a Civil War type scenario - either about Registration or lethality?

 

Pointing out that this is a cr*psack world, and the PCs are always going to be hosed to at least some extent?

 

Something else?

 

(Obviously it could be bad GMing, but that's a whole different story).

 

Personally, I quite happily read DC's Earth-2 books, which had their entire world destroyed with only a couple of million survivors, but I'm not so sure I would like to play it.

[SteelCold]

It could be the origin for a city based team of heroes whose purpose is to prevent such tragedies from ever happening again.

[assault]

Definitely could be.

 

Of course that raises interesting questions of jurisdiction.

[SteelCold]

That's hard to say as it is up to each GM to decide how much jurisdiction leeway he can allow for his campaign. Me personally if this was the first superhuman and the public outcry of the massacre reached nationwide then the team might be federal though it's unlikely the government would have any faith in small groups of six members or less to deal with the entire country's superhuman problems (sorry, Avengers.)

 

One possible scenario is one city suffering from a recent attack and knowing that conventional forces are not enough might recruit locally though the team's legal authority won't extend past city or county limits.

 

A good example of such a set up is The Vindicators from Digital Hero 17.

 

Another idea is that a S.H.I.E.L.D. type organization might be created but then again it would be simpler just to let the current governmental agencies like the CIA, FBI or Homeland Security handle it based on the kind of crime being committed.

[massey]

Well, it depends what sort of genre you want.  Since the thread title has "Iron Age" in it, obviously we're talking about a pretty dark place.  Personally I think a rogue superhuman could probably kill as many people as he wanted.  Depending on his exact power set, where he used it, how many people were there, how easy it was to  get away, and how long he wanted to stay, the death toll could easily be in the thousands.

 

I think the most realistic response would be for the federal government to start handing over really nasty guns and equipment to the police.  I'm thinking rocket propelled grenades and other anti-tank weapons would quickly find their way into the hands of SWAT teams all over the country.  You'd also probably get a lot more surveillance, looking for early signs of super powered individuals.  There would be heavy security at any sort of crowded public event.  To steal a quote from Team America, it would be 9/11 times a thousand.  That's right, 9 hundred 11 thousand.

 

My own interpretation for why comic book worlds are different is that it is determined by who the heroes are.  The government is going to react differently in this example than they are in the Christopher Reeve Superman world, where in his first appearance he saves a reporter from falling to her death, catches several violent criminals, rescues a cat from a tree, and saves the President when Air Force One is hit by lightning.  No one is hurt during any of the events, and Superman has several weeks to fly around and do good deeds before he stops a madman from setting off some nukes.  All together, his reputation should be golden by the end of the movie.  Superheroes who stop natural disasters, help people, and don't tear up the place are going to generate a lot of goodwill.

[Cassandra]

The Scourge In Marvel Comics killed 18 costumed villains in a single attack using only a automatic rifle loaded with armor piercing rounds.  

 

The mortality of comic book characters is based on how popular they are.

[Houston GM]

So, some "food for thought" questions:

1. what if this was the campaign world's first real experience with superhumans? How would that impact public perception and government response?

2. What if this did happen while the campaign superteam was out dealing with some other menace? How would that affect their treatment upon their return?

3. How would the ability set and power level of the superhuman spree killer affect their, uh, kill rate? Would there be some power sets that would make a superhuman an especially dangerous threat?

 

 

Answering your questions:

 

1. The North Hollywood shootout provides a good example of a real-world response. The two bank robbers had body armor and fully automatic weapons. The police found it nearly impossible to hurt them. Afterward, police cars were more heavily armored and police patrol cars were equipped with weapons/ammo that could penetrate body armor.

 

2. The logical response would be for the police to be given equipment that would allow them to handle many of these incidents. There would also be public support for creating a second team, specifically for incidents like this. Unless the local heroes have thwarted these kind of incidents in the past, the public (in general) will give them a pass.

 

3. The number of people killed is going to depend entirely on the powerset and the location. Give someone 60 PRE and let him set off a massive fear-based PRE attack.... You'll have hundreds of people trampled as everyone tries to stampede out the constricted exits.

 

You don't even need superpowers. Give someone a motorcycle and a butane torch when the Santa Ana winds are blowing. By the time someone figures out where the fires are coming from, you could have a rapidly moving, uncontrolled wall of flame 100 miles long.

 

The most dangerous threats don't come from someone going berserk. They come from someone with a plan.

[Lucius]

So, some "food for thought" questions:

1. what if this was the campaign world's first real experience with superhumans? How would that impact public perception and government response?

Depends. What kind of response are you looking for?

 

For one thing, it's not yet the "first real experience with superhumans." It might become that eventually, in retrospect, but only if "superhumans" becomes a mental category people apply to their world. Until then, it's an experience of someone spontaneously going berserk and inflicting more death and destruction barehanded than anyone would have thought possible, and not going down until having taken enough high caliber rounds to kill several normal people.

 

If no explanation is immediately forthcoming, it will probably be assumed that some new designer drug like a more extreme version of pcp is on the street. In any case, there is going to be anxiety about whether it can or will happen again. Among the most likely consequences would be an increased readiness of law enforcement to take lethal action even against unarmed people who seem violent or out of control, and an increased tolerance by the public of that attitude on the part of the police.

 

It makes a difference who the berserker was and what they looked like. If it was an African American male for example, the incident would exacerbate the prejudices that group already faces. If a pregnant female, expect headlines asking "Can something new in our environment interact with a pregnant woman's hormones to create an engine of destruction?" with candidates ranging from prescription drugs to pollution in the water to active yoghurt cultures depending on the politics and inclinations of whoever's writing the article. If it was a middle aged pale complexioned law abiding person with a fairly ordinary lifestyle? A lot of people will be asking "Could that happen to anyone? To me? One of my friends or family?"

 

If an explanation is forthcoming - and it probably will be, even if it's not the true explanation - expect hate and fear focused on whatever the perceived cause is. If the corpse has a recent tick bite and radiation detected around the bite, expect people to start beating the bushes to collect ticks and test them for radioactivity. If the corpse has needle tracks, expect a big crack down on illegal drugs.

 

But I wouldn't think peoples' attitudes to "superhumans" would be effected, because so far there are no "superhumans" just a scary impossibly strong and tough berserker.

 

If next month there's an earthquake and a flying saucer comes down near the epicenter and some guy comes out of it and starts rescuing people and so forth, no one's going to say "Another superhuman! Like that berserker!!" They'll say "Thank you O Man From the Stars for helping us!" Okay, some will say "I bet the aliens caused the earthquake and it's all a trick" but the same paranoids would have said the same thing if there had never been a Berserker Incident. If someone reveals "The government has been using telepaths secretly for years and I can prove it" and the telepaths in question say "Yeah, we're tired of hiding anyway, we're the real reason there haven't been a lot more terrorist attacks on US soil and we'd like a little credit," then - well, of course they'll be hated and feared but for the obvious reasons, not because anyone connects them with that guy who killed a hundred people bare handed.

 

Wow, I went on a lot longer than I thought on that one.

 

2. What if this did happen while the campaign superteam was out dealing with some other menace? How would that affect their treatment upon their return?

Fair or not, people are going to blame them for not being there to deal with it. Whether that festers into a long term PR problem or blows over the next time they save the day, may depend on factors such as, is anyone deliberately cultivating resentment against the team?

 

3. How would the ability set and power level of the superhuman spree killer affect their, uh, kill rate? Would there be some power sets that would make a superhuman an especially dangerous threat?

Why do you ask these questions when the answers are obvious?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

If the berserker was riding a palindromedary, I would be regarded with hate and fear if I suddenly appeared. But if I had been a well known and admired figure before the berserker came, the rampage would be blamed on something other than the palindromedary.

[procyon]

This really could be a touchy topic.

 

The Oklahoma City bombing killed and wounded around 800 people and resulted in a slew of legistlation - some of which made it easier to execute those convicted of such crimes.

9/11 precipitated the invasion of a country by the US to eliminate the source of a perceived threat.

 

A powerful villian could create havoc equal to those occurrences.

And would probably create responses much like them.

Many laws to deal with the issue.

And quite likely an attempt to proactively eliminate future threats.

[Comic]

Doesn't it depend on the type of super?

 

A character in power armor is barely different from a heavily armed criminal in body armor with automatic weapons, I'd think, to the public's mind.

 

An alien vanguard of invasion, the first of many to come, would radically change the game board, in particular if we can see the others coming through telescopes?

 

A biologically altered human, in particular if the technology that altered them was something like a simple pill readily available?

 

After all is said and done, the villain in this scenario isn't much different from a bull elephant or a polar bear, albeit one who bounces bullets a bit more successfully than most, and with more persistent blood thirst. How do we treat elephants and bears?

[Lucius]

Doesn't it depend on the type of super?

 

A character in power armor is barely different from a heavily armed criminal in body armor with automatic weapons, I'd think, to the public's mind.

 

An alien vanguard of invasion, the first of many to come, would radically change the game board, in particular if we can see the others coming through telescopes?

 

A biologically altered human, in particular if the technology that altered them was something like a simple pill readily available?

 

After all is said and done, the villain in this scenario isn't much different from a bull elephant or a polar bear, albeit one who bounces bullets a bit more successfully than most, and with more persistent blood thirst. How do we treat elephants and bears?

We put them in zoos, circuses, and wildlife preserves, and pass laws against poaching them or dealing in ivory.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

How do we treat palindromedaries?

[Comic]

We put them in zoos, circuses, and wildlife preserves, and pass laws against poaching them or dealing in ivory.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

How do we treat palindromedaries?

 

The same as elephants or bears, but front and back.

 

On the whole, it appears you grok my point. I have _got_ to work that up into a campaign world.

[megaplayboy]

Well, I deliberately posited a scenario with a relatively "weak" superhuman, simply to show that even a "low-powered" super is an incredibly deadly threat to civilians, if they are so inclined. At a higher power level, such malevolent superhumans might even rise to a threat level equivalent to a "weapon of mass destruction". Mechanon, for example, is sworn to destroy organic life and has sufficient power to kill dozens of humans per turn.

[assault]

And that's assuming Mechanon doesn't pull an Ultron, and run hundreds or thousands of bodies.

[procyon]

 How do we treat elephants and bears?

 

Ever notice that most of those big, bad, and dangerous animals are slowly creeping (or not so slowly) toward extinction.

Where mice are pretty much all over the place...

[Cassandra]

In The Dark Knight the Joker had the members of his gang kill each other off during a bank robbery.  Makes you wonder how he got anyone to work for him.

[Greywind]

Promises, like a politician.

[L. Marcus]

Boy had the gift o' gab.

[Comic]

Ever notice that most of those big, bad, and dangerous animals are slowly creeping (or not so slowly) toward extinction.

Where mice are pretty much all over the place...

 

And yet frogs and bats are dropping off faster than megafauna.

[assault]

Bees and fish are vanishing too in at least some areas.

[Comic]

So.. a campaign setting where superheroes are treated like exotic, dangerous wild animals: in some places poached for their parts (but not always killed outright), in some places caged in zoos, often penned up in reserves, or requiring special licenses to keep and ship.

 

And a small group of player characters have escaped this treatment to find each other and band together.. but which one is the traitor?

[Christopher]

You have a lot of asumptions in your base case there. Namely that nobody has anythng more powerfull then a handgun. A simple Rifle should be more powerfull then a handgun. And with better range.

And that no two people would combine fire at the same time, wearing him down.

 

Even the british police - known to no carry firearms in the regular force - can bring quite some firepower to bear if nessesary:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_firearms_in_the_United_Kingdom#Carbines.2C_Shotguns.2C_and_Rifles

Inlcuding Rifles and Machine Pistols.

 

US Police has in parts fully automatic Assault Rifles in thier cars.

 

There actually was one incident where two crooks in military full body armor with automatc weapons robbed a bank. They just ignored handgun fire.

In the end the US police just apropirate Assault Rifles with AP-Ammunition from a local arms store. And in hindsight the force got updated to deal with that threath.

 

Yes, the death-toll would be considerable. But less so based on how many people he can injure directly, and more how many indirectly.

Destorying the load bearing stucture of a building kills everyone inside. We have more worries about Terrorists with bombs then about Terrorist with AK-47's.

 

The real question is: In wich areas is a superhuman more dangerous than a normal human with gear could be?

All our example cases are humans that had conventinal, real life armor and weapons. They used one specific weakness in the local police structure (low response times, weak armament). The only thng

The only area they are "more" dangerous would be that they don't look armed, when they are. So there might be a case for registration.

 

Immediate response? Isolated incident.

Pacific Rim pointed out that humans will propably opt for "it's a single case" then go all nuts on a large scale.

In that film it took like 3-5 Kaiju attacks before they realised "oh shit, this is going to be a thing now isn't it? We truly are in a Godzilla movie?"

 

Since they are manipulated into doing that, the supers themself could even be viewed as victims. Like a busdriver that drives over someone because the breakes are not working properly.

 

In the end I can point towards Grrl power, a comic that deals with the US "suddenly" having acknowledged superhumans:

http://grrlpowercomic.com/archives/942

And even making ARC squad despite Budget issues.