Marvel Cine Universe levels

[Tjack]

How powerful would you say the movie versions of the Avengers or the Guardians of the Galaxy would be? 500-750 points or more like 750-1000?

[Hyper-Man]

The current version of Iron Man/Tony Stark could easily hit 750 points but the other Avengers probably don't need quite that many points (except maybe Vision).  Tony needs a LOT of points invested in skills and other stuff besides the armor he wears.

 

I don't know if all the Guardians even need 400 points.  Groot & Rocket? Sure.  Drax though? He seemed pretty underwhelming to me unless his job is to just absorb damage.  I can see filling out everyone else with non-combat Skills and Perks (contacts, ship, etc...).

[bubba smith]

500-750

[massey]

I've been thinking of doing writeups for them. May have to get on that.

[Christopher R Taylor]

They aren't terribly powerful compared to their comic book versions.  I bet you could get them all in under 500, depending on the scene they were in.  For example Iron Man's armor is either nearly indestructible or falls apart with a breath of fresh air.

[Tjack]

Well, of course Iron Man is built on more points. He's been in more movies so he has more EP's.

I wonder how many experience points he got in each movie appearance?

[massey]

 

They aren't terribly powerful compared to their comic book versions.  I bet you could get them all in under 500, depending on the scene they were in.  For example Iron Man's armor is either nearly indestructible or falls apart with a breath of fresh air.

 

Depending on the scene they were in?  Well of course, when Captain America is sneaking around the mall with Black Widow in Cap 2, he's not using very many points.

 

But generally I'd disagree.  The movie characters are quite powerful.  I think to do them justice, you'd have to spend a lot of points.

[Comic]

I bet Cassandra could do them on 250 pts apiece credibly.

 

Let's face it, they're pretty much all SPD 3 max.

[massey]

I bet Cassandra could do them on 250 pts apiece credibly.

 

Let's face it, they're pretty much all SPD 3 max.

 

 

 

Edit:  My bad Comic, that was a dick response on my part.

[Tjack]

Well, of course Iron Man is built on more points. He's been in more movies so he has more EP's.

I wonder how many experience points he got in each movie appearance?

No the question was actually serious.

If you were a GM running the storyline of Avengers let's say as a group of episodes, how many EP's would you hand out at the end for the heroes?

[Comic]

No the question was actually serious.

If you were a GM running the storyline of Avengers let's say as a group of episodes, how many EP's would you hand out at the end for the heroes?

 

Movie scenes are typically around 3 minutes these days.

 

Assuming a typical adventure is five scenes, and acknowledging that good roleplay is worth bonus points -- who deserves bonus points for roleplay if not Robert Downey Jr.? (I could practically envision him as a real rich substance-abusing genius playboy narcissist with psychological issues!) .. Movies of 90 minutes are six five-scene adventures interleaved and mixed up into story arcs, five EP per adventure with a five EP story arc bonus for Mr. Downey, 35 EP's per movie.

 

So assuming in the first movie he was 250 pts, he's up to 400 pts on live action movies alone. Though add in comics and animation, and he'd be in the thousands.

[Christopher R Taylor]

You give out a lot more experience than I do, Comic!

[Comic]

You give out a lot more experience than I do, Comic!

 

..are you saying there's something wrong with the quality of Robert Downey Jr.'s roleplay?

 

Remembering a 90 minute movie takes upwards of 18 months of sometimes 15-hour workdays?

[Cassandra]

I bet Cassandra could do them on 250 pts apiece credibly.

 

Let's face it, they're pretty much all SPD 3 max.

 

I could hand have.

 

The key is Multiform.

[Tjack]

Movie scenes are typically around 3 minutes these days.

 

Assuming a typical adventure is five scenes, and acknowledging that good roleplay is worth bonus points -- who deserves bonus points for roleplay if not Robert Downey Jr.? (I could practically envision him as a real rich substance-abusing genius playboy narcissist with psychological issues!) .. Movies of 90 minutes are six five-scene adventures interleaved and mixed up into story arcs, five EP per adventure with a five EP story arc bonus for Mr. Downey, 35 EP's per movie.

 

So assuming in the first movie he was 250 pts, he's up to 400 pts on live action movies alone. Though add in comics and animation, and he'd be in the thousands.[/

 

"Envision"!!! Nooooooo! I have no idea how he managed to get into the mind of such a character. Scrapbooks, Wikipedia, maybe some old clips from TMZ perhaps.

The live action movies were all I had considered.

[steriaca]

How powerful would you say the movie versions of the Avengers or the Guardians of the Galaxy would be? 500-750 points or more like 750-1000?

I think the gotg would be peak for their respective races

[massey]

When I'm doing character modeling, I'm generally against giving someone a specialized power to produce a certain feat, with the goal of reducing the overall power level of the character.

 

Now that's a mouthful of a sentence, but here's what I mean.  Think back to the Avengers movie.  The Hulk makes his appearance for the final battle.  He punches some big, floaty armored dragon thing, and at least knocks it unconscious.  Now, you could build the Hulk as a guy with a 30 Str, who also has a 10D6 Hand Killing Attack, 1 charge, only versus big floaty armored dragon thing, must haymaker to use.  You could do that, but unless there's a specific reason to think he is that limited, it's against my philosophy of game design.  Likewise, the big floaty armored dragon things are shown to smash through skyscrapers.  It appears they are simply plowing through them with their Str score alone (possibly even casual Str).  I suppose you could give them Tunneling, only through buildings, to represent what they do.  But again, it doesn't look like Tunneling.  The intent of the filmmaker seems to be to show how physically large and strong the things are.

 

So I take the position that when a particular level of power is displayed, we should normally take it at face value.  In the case of the Hulk, unless there's some evidence that he's got a lower strength, the majority of his damage should probably come from raw Str and not special power tricks.  That doesn't mean that that one punch has to be just his normal Str damage, but if you're trying to write up the character, simplicity is normally best.  Whatever that costs in points is just whatever it costs.  We aren't worried about a budget with character modeling.

 

The only characters I see who might obviously use multiform are Iron Man and Hulk.  I suppose you could have a multiform Thor -- flying Thor, hitting people with hammer Thor, standing there shooting lightning Thor, etc.  But that's a gamey workaround to save points, nothing more.  There's no indication on the screen that Thor has to make some sort of change before he does each thing.  It's a very non-traditional method of character construction, and there doesn't appear to be any reason to go that route over the more traditional method.

 

 

--

 

5th Ed rules follow

 

Let's say the big flying things have a Str score of 115.  That will let them smash up a building really well.  They also won't be crushed if a building actually crashes down on top of them (they're strong enough to hold the rubble up).  If they start with a base Str of 25, and just buy the rest with pure Growth, that gives 18 levels of Growth.  That would also put them at around 400 feet long.  That looks about right for the size of those things.  Now that's gonna make them a "cinderblock" as far as bricks go.  Base Body of 10, base Str of 25, Con of 25 (same as Str, why not), that's 36 Stun plus the 18 from Growth.  So the things would have 54 Stun and 28 Body.  Now defensively, Iron Man's attacks couldn't hurt them from the outside.  So let's give them 20 Def, hardened, and 20 extra Defense.  40 Def seems like enough to shrug off most of Tony's attacks from the outside.  Once we get Iron Man built, we can modify that, but it's a good starting point.  It also makes them basically immune to most US military equipment.  I think this is a good "minimum" for our big floaty armored dragon things.

 

So the Hulk is gonna have to do about 94 Stun to knock one of those things unconscious.  That's 27D6 to put one of them at 0 Stun.  It looked farther unconscious than that to me (it didn't move any more), so let's put it at about 33D6 (roughly -20 Stun).  We'll assume it's just knocked out, and not dead.  Now later on, Hulk runs though a building and leaps on one that is charging towards a group of office workers.  He basically performs a Grab maneuver, and then wrestles it to the ground.  So let's give Hulk a base (at that point in the battle) of at least 115 Str (same as the monster) so he can do that.  Maybe he's got some HTH levels that he converts to extra DCs to make sure he's successful with the grab.  So he normally does about 23D6.  So he's going to haymaker to drop the first big floaty armored dragon thing.  He holds his action until the thing is close. He times it so that he can haymaker and the punch will land just as the monster arrives.  23D6 + 4D6.  That's 27 dice.  Where does the extra come from?  Perhaps he has an extended haymaker power?  Perhaps the monster is moving towards him at, say 25" of Flight, and the GM allows Hulk to use its velocity against it as if it were a move-through?  Or maybe Hulk just rolled awesome?

 

The scene clearly exists to show Hulk's power when he doesn't hold back.  The "pretend the enemy is doing a move-through" mechanic doesn't seem quite book legal.  So as a result, I choose to give Hulk the extra dice.  So he's got maybe +6D6 Hand Attack, only for extended haymaker, maybe increased endurance.  That lets him hit 33D6, 35 on a push.  That gets us to the right ballpark, but at that point it's a matter of taste, exactly how you handle it.

[Tjack]

A couple of people have described Iron Man as having multi-form. I always thought of the write up as Tony Stark having a couple of big honkin' Variable Power Pools, one larger than the other and a skill list like a phone book.

The larger VPP changeable only at base since that's how he switches from one set of armor to the other in the movies. While the smaller one represents the "Briefcase Armor" seen in IM2 and any other gadgets he might put together on the fly.

[Cassandra]

Tony Stark

 

Val Char Cost

15 STR 5

18 DEX 24

15 CON 10

12 BODY 4

23 INT 16

11 EGO 2

15 PRE 5

16 COM 3

6 PD 3

4 ED 1

3 SPD 2

6 REC 0

30 END 0

28 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 75 Points

 

Cost Skills

3 Combat Driving [small Ground Vehicles] 13-

3 Computer Programming 14-

5 Cramming

3 Electronics 14-

2 Lang: Fluent French

3 Mechanics 14-

15 Money: Filthy Rich

3 Power[iNT] 14-

3 PS[iNT]: Industrialist 14-

2 Rep: Genius Billionaire Playboy Philanthropist 11-

3 Seduction 12-

3 Systems Operation 14-

2 WF: Small Arms

Total Skills Cost: 50 Points

 

Cost Powers

10 ES: HRRP, IIF: Jarvis Communicator (-1/4)

40 Multiform: 250 Points [iron Man], IIF: Jarvis Communicator (-1/4)

50 VPP 40 Points, OAF (-1)

Total Powers Cost: 100 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

10 DNPC: Pepper Potts (Useful Normal) 11-

5 DNPC: James Rhodes (Slightly Less Powerful) 8-

15 Hunted: Current Villain (As Powerful/NCI) 8-

10 Hunted: SHIELD (More Powerful/NCI/Watch) 8-

20 Normal Characteristics Maxima

15 PsyL: In Love WIth Pepper Potts (Common/Strong)

20 PsyL: Protective Of Innocents (Very Common/Strong)

5 SocL: Famous (Occasionally/Minor)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

 

 

Iron Man 

 

Val Char Cost

50*/15 STR 28 

18 DEX 24

25*/15 CON 23 

12 BODY 4

23 INT 16

11 EGO 2

15 PRE 5

16 COM 3

15*/6 PD 4

15*/4 ED 8

4*/3 SPD 9 

15*/6 REC 0

50*/30 END 0

50*/28 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 125 Points

 

Cost Skills

2* Absolute Range Sense

2* Absolute Time Sense

2* Bump of Direction

5* CSL: Combat +1

3 Computer Programming 14-

2 Navigation [Air] 14-

3 Rep: Superhero 14-

3 Systems Operation 14-

3 Tactics 14-

Total Skills Cost: 25 Points

 

Cost Powers

10* Armor +5 rPD +5 rED

7* Damage Resistance 10 rPD 10 rED

10* EC [Repulsors]-15 Points

20* 1) EB 10d6, Gestures (-1/4)

10* 2) Flight 10", Use Underwater (+1/4), 1/2 END (+1/4)

25* ES: HRRP, Telescopic Sight +4, 360 Degree Radar, UV Sight, Cost END Only To Activate (-1/4)

3* Flash Defense [sight] 5 Points

3* Flight 2", Megascale 1km (+1/4)

6* LS: High Pressure, High Radiation, Intense Cold, Intense Heat, Low Pressure/Vacuum

6* LS: Self Contained, Cost END Only To Activate (-1/4)

Total Powers Cost: 100 Points

 

*OIF: Powered Armor (-1/2)

 

150+ Disadvantages

10 DNPC: Pepper Potts (Useful Normal) 11-

5 DNPC: James Rhodes (Slightly Less Powerful) 8-

10 Hunted: Current Villain (As Powerful) 8-

10 Hunted: SHIELD (More Powerful/NCI/Watch) 8-

20 Normal Characteristics Maxima

15 PsyL: In Love With Pepper Potts (Common/Strong)

20 PsyL: Protective Of Innocents (Very Common/Strong)

10 SocL: Public Identity (Occasionally/Major)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

[bubba smith]

Tony Stark

 

Val Char Cost

15 STR 5

18 DEX 24

15 CON 10

12 BODY 4

23 INT 16

11 EGO 2

15 PRE 5

16 COM 3

6 PD 3

4 ED 1

3 SPD 2

6 REC 0

30 END 0

28 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 75 Points

 

Cost Skills

3 Combat Driving [small Ground Vehicles] 13-

3 Computer Programming 14-

5 Cramming

3 Electronics 14-

2 Lang: Fluent French

3 Mechanics 14-

15 Money: Filthy Rich

3 Power[iNT] 14-

3 PS[iNT]: Industrialist 14-

2 Rep: Genius Billionaire Playboy Philanthropist 11-

3 Seduction 12-

3 Systems Operation 14-

2 WF: Small Arms

Total Skills Cost: 50 Points

 

Cost Powers

10 ES: HRRP, IIF: Jarvis Communicator (-1/4)

40 Multiform: 250 Points [iron Man], IIF: Jarvis Communicator (-1/4)

50 VPP 40 Points, OAF (-1)

Total Powers Cost: 100 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

10 DNPC: Pepper Potts (Useful Normal) 11-

5 DNPC: James Rhodes (Slightly Less Powerful) 8-

15 Hunted: Current Villain (As Powerful/NCI) 8-

10 Hunted: SHIELD (More Powerful/NCI/Watch) 8-

20 Normal Characteristics Maxima

15 PsyL: In Love WIth Pepper Potts (Common/Strong)

20 PsyL: Protective Of Innocents (Very Common/Strong)

5 SocL: Famous (Occasionally/Minor)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

 

 

Iron Man 

 

Val Char Cost

50*/15 STR 28 

18 DEX 24

25*/15 CON 23 

12 BODY 4

23 INT 16

11 EGO 2

15 PRE 5

16 COM 3

15*/6 PD 4

15*/4 ED 8

4*/3 SPD 9 

15*/6 REC 0

50*/30 END 0

50*/28 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 125 Points

 

Cost Skills

2* Absolute Range Sense

2* Absolute Time Sense

2* Bump of Direction

5* CSL: Combat +1

3 Computer Programming 14-

2 Navigation [Air] 14-

3 Rep: Superhero 14-

3 Systems Operation 14-

3 Tactics 14-

Total Skills Cost: 25 Points

 

Cost Powers

10* Armor +5 rPD +5 rED

7* Damage Resistance 10 rPD 10 rED

10* EC [Repulsors]-15 Points

20* 1) EB 10d6, Gestures (-1/4)

10* 2) Flight 10", Use Underwater (+1/4), 1/2 END (+1/4)

25* ES: HRRP, Telescopic Sight +4, 360 Degree Radar, UV Sight, Cost END Only To Activate (-1/4)

3* Flash Defense [sight] 5 Points

3* Flight 2", Megascale 1km (+1/4)

6* LS: High Pressure, High Radiation, Intense Cold, Intense Heat, Low Pressure/Vacuum

6* LS: Self Contained, Cost END Only To Activate (-1/4)

Total Powers Cost: 100 Points

 

*OIF: Powered Armor (-1/2)

 

150+ Disadvantages

10 DNPC: Pepper Potts (Useful Normal) 11-

5 DNPC: James Rhodes (Slightly Less Powerful) 8-

10 Hunted: Current Villain (As Powerful) 8-

10 Hunted: SHIELD (More Powerful/NCI/Watch) 8-

20 Normal Characteristics Maxima

15 PsyL: In Love With Pepper Potts (Common/Strong)

20 PsyL: Protective Of Innocents (Very Common/Strong)

10 SocL: Public Identity (Occasionally/Major)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

good job

[massey]

What about his missiles?  What about his lasers?

 

https://youtu.be/uy6zdEbxjuU?t=3m

 

So, from 3:03 to 3:11, I count 8 separate "actions" by Iron Man.  That means seeing a target, aiming, and shooting it.  It doesn't appear to be a spread attack, or a rapid attack.  He also mixes in ranged attacks and hand to hand attacks.  8 attacks in 8 seconds is pretty good.  He's definitely higher than a 4 speed.

 

https://youtu.be/DTqa-NEwUbs

 

What about the amount of damage he does here?  The variety of attacks?  Getting shot out of the sky, crashing into rock, and getting up okay?

[massey]

As far as the first scene, at the 3:03 mark, let's be as conservative as we can.  We begin on segment 12, and Iron Man does a rapid attack, first shooting a guy in front of him, and then shooting a guy behind him.  He follows this up on his next phase by doing either another rapid attack, or a fancy spread attack, taking out 3 opponents bam, bam, bam.  He then destroys a robot by using Sagat's "Tiger Knee" and then smashing down with an elbow.  There he's using two martial art maneuvers together.  Then he turns and punches another robot, and then spins around and either a grab or a martial throw on yet another.

 

That's 5 distinct actions in 8 seconds.  That takes us from segment 12 to segment 7.  To get 5 actions in that span of time, Tony needs a Speed 7.  Now this is presuming that the cinematic universe is following the conventional Speed chart, and seconds onscreen are supposed to match to seconds in a combat round.  I'm not sure they are.  Movies are paced for dramatic effect, and characters will often stop and have conversations in the middle of a firefight.  This doesn't really happen in a Champions game.  Still, it's clear that he has an enormous Speed advantage over anyone who is not a superhero, including supergoons.

 

At 3:14 and 3:15, he destroys 2 more robots with punches, then dodges a missile at 3:16, and blasts 3 more robots at 3:18.  The guy is fast.

[Greywind]

Speed of plot/story pacing. Nothing more.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Exactly, its lots of fast cuts to show him taking action, not an exact chronological sequence of events.  That's like giving James Bond teleportation because he's show in one scene in London and the next in Sao Palo.

[Tjack]

I have two points to address, one on each side of the debate.

1) While the 250 write ups are cleverly done, I don't think they accurately portray the power level seen in the movies

2) The martial arts moves Tony performs in the films are more about the fact that RDJr. has multiple Black Belts in real life and is more capable using those forms in stunt work than the more standard types. Not necessarily about what the character "should" know.