Question about linked powers

[Amorkca]

would the trigger still work if a second person attacks them, after they have already done the above?

 

I'm refreshing myself on the rules of combat etc, planning a new game and trying to remember (and not confuse other game systems with Hero)

 

Its just like my players to throw something at me in my first game...

[Amorkca]

 

Not true.

 

Marvel movies without Stan Lee:

 

• "Blade" (New Line Cinema 1998)
• "Blade II" (New Line Cinema 2002)
• "X2" (20th Century Fox 2003)
• "The Punisher" (Lions Gate Films 2004)
• "Blade: Trinity" (New Line Cinema 2004)
• "Elektra" (20th Century Fox 2005)
• "Ghost Rider" (Columbia Pictures 2007)
• "Punisher: War Zone" (Lionsgate 2008)
• "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" (20th Century Fox2009)
• "X-Men: First Class" (20th Century Fox 2011)
• "Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance" (Columbia Pictures 2012)
• "The Wolverine" (20th Century Fox 2013)
• Howard the Duck (1986)
• Captain America (1990)
• Man-Thing (2005)
• The Punisher (1989)

 

Don't forget the most recent Fantastic Four... I missed Stan...

[TheDarkness]

would the trigger still work if a second person attacks them, after they have already done the above?

 

I don't think so. At least in my build, the Combat Skill Levels are already allocated to defense, that is the abort to defense that carries the trigger. The rest of the phase(and until my next action), my DCV will be higher from those CSLs, but I cannot reallocate them to defense to make the trigger go off again, since they're already there.

 

Now, while triggering is not an attack action, the attack is, and an attack is always the end of your phase, so once the attack occurs, I don't see how they could trigger again even if they had another batch of CSLs to use or defaulted to martial block or something. They attacked, so they are done.

[Greywind]

Don't forget the most recent Fantastic Four... I missed Stan...

 

I missed the Fantastic Four...

[TheDarkness]

Also, there are different kinds of details on the trigger. It costs to make it automatically reset so that the next segment it might be used again. Otherwise, you have to take an action to reset it(so, most expensive is automatically reset, slightly less expensive is Zero Action reset, etc.)

 

There are a number of other options that affect how much the trigger advantage costs.

[Hugh Neilson]

15 pts.              3 CSLs, all HTH

20 pts.              naked advantage to STR attack: reduced END(1/4), triggered by Defensive Abort with CSLs above when he wishes to use this power(+1/4), trigger takes no time(+1/4), trigger takes a zero phase action to reset(1/4)

Assuming the character has 20 STR, sure.

 

52 pts.              naked advantage to nightstick attack: reduced endurance, triggered by Defensive Abort with CSLs above when he wishes to use this power(+1/4), trigger takes no time(+1/4), trigger takes a zero phase action to reset(1/4)

 

Definitely not something I could see putting 52 points into. Twenty, I could see.

For 20, you get a 4 DC attack. For 52, you get a larger attack. It makes sense to me that the cost will be higher if the underlying attack is higher. I can't see spending any points for a Super to get a 4d6 attack off when he Aborts - 4d6 will rarely, if ever, damage the opponent.

 

If two characters have these abilities, say Daredevil & Bullseye, they could theoretically hit/counter-hit each other in one phase until one is knocked out or stunned?

That would require a Trigger that resets automatically. In TheDarkness build, the character aborts with a counterattack, then needs a zero phase action to "reset" the trigger. So if he aborts, his next phase comes up, and he aborts again before the following phase comes up, he can't counterattack again because he has not yet had a 0 phase action to reset the trigger.

[TheDarkness]

 

 

For 20, you get a 4 DC attack. For 52, you get a larger attack. It makes sense to me that the cost will be higher if the underlying attack is higher. I can't see spending any points for a Super to get a 4d6 attack off when he Aborts - 4d6 will rarely, if ever, damage the opponent.

 

Well, in this case, the 4d6 is fine for ordinary thugs and street criminals, but yes, most NPCs will not be effected. Also, in the game I'm playing, though it is 400 pts., is mainly broader with less high value powers. In the case of this power, the 20 pt. is an NPC who is the sort of vigilante who will often be taking on the thugs while the powered individuals are taking on the more powerful villains. The 52 is too pricy, as his build includes a lot of skills that the group has need of, but are not covered, and some gear that I just like. With his nightsticks, he's fairly effective, but I'm not sure I can spare the points to give him the nightstick trigger. Especially since it would be 6d6, not that much more damage.

 

 

 

That would require a Trigger that resets automatically. In TheDarkness build, the character aborts with a counterattack, then needs a zero phase action to "reset" the trigger. So if he aborts, his next phase comes up, and he aborts again before the following phase comes up, he can't counterattack again because he has not yet had a 0 phase action to reset the trigger.

 

I changed it to the 25 point version for that reason, so that I wouldn't have to deal with the reset. Totally worth the five points.

[pinecone]

Ok, now I've read through...why aren't you building this as a Damage sheild?

[Amorkca]

Damage Shield is a good option

[Cassandra]

A Defensive Strike maneuver with extra Martial Arts Damage Classes would work here.

[Greywind]

If that would work he would be satisfied using the Counterstrike that is already in the system.

[Amorkca]

If that would work he would be satisfied using the Counterstrike that is already in the system.

Where is the source information for Counterstrike? I've looked in the index for Complete Champions and Hero System 1&2.

 

Course I might just be blind too...

[steriaca]

Where is the source information for Counterstrike? I've looked in the index for Complete Champions and Hero System 1&2.

 

Course I might just be blind too...

Might it be in The Hero System Marital Arts? I"ll look it up when I get home

[Lucius]

 

Once you abort to Block, you can keep rolling to Block until you miss the roll.

 

If we use the "No time to reset" option and define the trigger as "Blocking" would that enable the Trigger to go off each time a Block is rolled?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks it's going off on Trigger, then is embarrassed to learn it is going off on Dale Evans.

[Hyper-Man]

Where is the source information for Counterstrike? I've looked in the index for Complete Champions and Hero System 1&2.

 

Course I might just be blind too...

 

 

Might it be in The Hero System Marital Arts? I"ll look it up when I get home

 

Yes, it is from Hero System Martial Arts.

 

4 Counterstrike +2 +2 Weapon +2 DC Strike, Must Follow Block

 

[Amorkca]

Once you abort to Block, you can keep rolling to Block until you miss the roll.

 

If we use the "No time to reset" option and define the trigger as "Blocking" would that enable the Trigger to go off each time a Block is rolled?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks it's going off on Trigger, then is embarrassed to learn it is going off on Dale Evans.

 

This is what I was wondering back up when I asked if the two characters could keep triggering each other... and fight to the exclusion of others...

 

Best let your palindromedary know that Dale Evans knows how to use a gun!!!

[Lucius]

This is what I was wondering back up when I asked if the two characters could keep triggering each other... and fight to the exclusion of others...

That can't happen. First of all, sooner or later you fail the Block roll and have to stop. And you're not even going to be able to start a repeating cycle like that unless the attacker has an attack with Trigger taking no time where the Trigger is something like "Being Blocked." The attacker, remember, JUST attacked and therefore can't abort to Block in turn.

 

Someone with a Trigger "Being Blocked" meeting someone with a Trigger "Blocking" meeting in combat strikes me as a bizzare and unlikely situation unless it's deliberately engineered, and even if it happens, it's self limiting because it shouldn't take long before the Blocker fails a Block roll.

 

edit: as I recall, each Block is at a cumulative penalty isn't it?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

 

Best let your palindromedary know that Dale Evans knows how to use a gun!!!

The palindromedary isn't afraid of Country Western Singers! It is afraid of Classical Musicians....

[TheDarkness]

If the trigger is an attack, then it doesn't matter if both have trigger to block. Once you attack in a segment, you cannot abort to block to trigger anything. Once you abort to block, and activate your trigger of an attack, and attack, you can no longer abort to block anything. At most, each person gets one attack(we'll ignore if the first is a multiple attack for counting).

 

The main reason I'm not using the counterstrike maneuver for this is more for feel. When you have a group of fighters in your gaming group, and you are one, every time it comes up, everyone will feel like "That's a counterstrike? Seems more like a setup?" So its situation specific for me and my gamers. As a setup, perfect. As a counterstrike, not very apt.

 

I'm confused on something. Blocking. You can't abort more than once in a segment, can you? How do you abort to block until you miss a roll?

[Hyper-Man]

A character can make multiple Blocks in a single Phase as long as each attempt is successful.  Each attempt after the first is at a cumulative -2 Penalty. The first failed attempt ends the character's Phase.  Only the 1st attempt would ever be considered an Abort action.  Block and Dodge are both considered 'Attack Actions' that otherwise end a character's Phase.

 

As a comparison, here is how I built my version of Wonder Woman's bracelets that she so often uses to deflect bullets with.

 

Bracelets forged from the Aegis, all slots OIF Unbreakable (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4)
11    1)  Deflection, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Misfire; This allows Deflection to be used without the normal -2 penalty per additional attempt. Misfire means that after every extra 10 attacks there is an additional -2 penalty to the roll; +3/4) (40 Active Points); Lockout (Still Requires an Abort or Held Action; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4) - END=1

 

In 6e it is technically legal to attempt a Block vs. a ranged attack if you have something to block with.  I purposely used Deflection as the base power so I could add the Trigger Advantage to bypass the mandatory cumulative -2 Penalty for multiple Block attempts.  It basically takes fully automatic gunfire or equivalent attacks* to overwhelm this ability.

 

*Like Amazo combining Flash's speed with Green Lantern's Ring to Autofire Ring Blasts at her in the Justice League Animated Series.

[TheDarkness]

Ok, now I've read through...why aren't you building this as a Damage sheild?

Because I hadn't thought of it!

 

I'd have to think about how I'd apply it. It really only would come up when attacked in hth, have no effect any other time, and I'd probably give it an activation roll to see if it works(because I don't want it to automatically do the damage)

[TheDarkness]

A character can make multiple Blocks in a single Phase as long as each attempt is successful.  Each attempt after the first is at a cumulative -2 Penalty. The first failed attempt ends the character's Phase.  Only the 1st attempt would ever be considered an Abort action.  Block and Dodge are both considered 'Attack Actions' that otherwise end a character's Phase.

You have just saved me a potential imaginary beating. Thanks...

[Hyper-Man]

Because I hadn't thought of it!

 

I'd have to think about how I'd apply it. It really only would come up when attacked in hth, have no effect any other time, and I'd probably give it an activation roll to see if it works(because I don't want it to automatically do the damage)

 

While not exactly a 'Damage Shield' I was reminded of this old build....

 

Here is a 5e build of Daffy Duck as Robin Hood using his Buck and Quarter Quarterstaff.

 

 

14 Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha - THRUST!: Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Hole In The Middle (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Area Of Effect (2" radius; +3/4), Continuous (+1) (70 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF (buck and a quarter staff (of opportunity); -1/2), STR Minimum 6-14 (8) (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Requires A DEX Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; -1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Side Effects (Smacks himself in the face with staff; -1/4) - END=0

 

Anyone entering the character's hex will automatically get hit (unless the character misses the initial DEX roll).

The character can add up to +4 DC's with enough STR, CSL's or Martial Arts.

 

[Tech]

I missed the Fantastic Four...

Trust me, you didn't miss anything. Lousy movie IMHO.