Omni-gadgets -- how Batman abuses Summon in 5th edition

[massey]

This probably could have gone in the Hero System Discussion subforum, but I'm not really interested in the legality of what I've done.  Our group has discussed it, and we've got our own method of dealing with this.  I just thought I'd share what we've been doing.  Occasionally I post character designs, and I'm sure it won't be long before I post one that someone sees and they go "what?"  Perhaps this will inspire someone 

 

The old Mayfair DC Heroes RPG had a power called "Omni-Gadget".  This was similar to their "Omni-Power", which was basically a cosmic VPP that let you whip out any power you wanted.  Omni-Gadgets were a more limited version of this, and they represented the hero's (or villain's -- Batman opponents frequently had this as well) ability to whip out any device they needed at a moment's notice.  Need some Bat Shark Repellent?  Maybe a Nuclear Batarang?  No problem for our hero.  The Omni-Gadget to the rescue.  In the game, a character with this power could spend a certain number of "Hero Points" (basically experience points that you could also spend in the course of the game to perform heroic feats) to instantly have whatever gadget he needed on his person.  He just happened to be carrying whatever tool he needed at that moment.

 

Now, converting this to Champions, I have traditionally used the Variable Power Pool.  The problem with using a VPP, is that it is too expensive for the benefit.  The Omni-Gadget was a limited use ability.  While the "spending experience for in-game benefit" mechanic doesn't really exist in Hero, the Omni-Gadget was still something that could only be used a certain number of times.  Batman, for instance, had 4 Omni-Gadgets that he could use in an adventure.  It represented anything non-standard that he could pull out of his utility belt (he didn't have to pay the Hero Point penalty for using a flashlight, or a regular batarang, or a smoke bomb, etc -- those things were already on his character sheet).  But with a VPP, you cannot take a limitation on the non-control cost part of the pool (now this might have changed in 6th, I'm not sure).  This means that there's an active point cost disincentive to try and duplicate the Omni-Gadget concept.

 

For instance, let's say Batman has a Gadget-based VPP.  He can pull out any gadget he needs, 4 times a game.  We'll say it's a 60 point VPP.  It's Cosmic, because he can instantly have it any time he wants.  It's also got 4 charges (-1), and OIF (-1/2, because it's in his utility belt).  He's going to be paying 96 points (60 pool + 36 control cost) to be able to have 4 uses of a 60 point power.  At that point, it's significantly more practical to just drop the charges limitation and let the guy run around using his VPP for everything.  Pay an extra 24 points and you can use it all day long (or you could drop the VPP to 50 points, still good, and it'll only be 100 pts without charges versus 96 for the original).  The game mechanic for simulating "instant power specific to this situation" is too expensive to build it that way.  And it doesn't even come close to covering guys who can pull out one very expensive attack (such as Green Arrow's "nuclear warhead arrow").

 

This is something I've fiddled with over the years, and I finally hit upon a solution.  Summon.

 

Originally I was using it to represent a hero's skill with gadgetry.  Mr. Fantastic, or some other scientist, could represent building a robot or some other huge piece of equipment, and I gave them Summon, with the extra time requirement.  Give Reed Richards 5 minutes and he can create a big 500 point thingamajig.  Robot, spaceship, time machine, whatever.  Then I realized the same mechanic could represent Batman or Green Arrow, who can occasionally pull out something that has a far higher active point total than their normal abilities.  And so with some experimenting, I came up with my standard Omni-Gadget build:

 

Summon: 100 point gadget (20 pts)

Slavishly Devoted (+1)

Expanded group: any gadget (+1/2)

4 Charges (-1)

OIF: utility belt (-1/2)

 

Active Points: 50  Real Cost: 20

 

 

To be technically legal, the item in question probably needs to be built as an automaton or a vehicle, and have the same Dex and Spd as the character.  So the nuclear batarang would need to be 30 Dex, 6 Spd (or whatever) just like Batman.  There would also be a one-phase delay between when you activate it, and when it actually works.  Visually, perhaps the camera lingers on the item as you pull it out, letting the viewer know that this one is "special".  Then you get to use it next phase.  After speaking with my GM, we came up with a +1 Advantage to allow "Instant Summon", so that you can use the ability on the same round when you activate it.  We've also allowed characters to effectively Summon a Focus, without having to spend points on Dex or Speed (or Mental Defense, in case you don't use it immediately, because a Mind Controlled Batarang would be weird).  This will have the effect of making the Summon cheaper (possibly significantly cheaper).

 

For those who haven't figured it out already, this is an ENORMOUS Stop Sign power.  The GM should look over any character who brings in something like this.  Look over the character, and look over anything he tries to Summon as well.  It's quite easy to abuse.  The first time I used it (shrinking gadgeteer who would pull out previously micro-sized inventions -- a 250 pt summon), I dropped all the villains with a continuous, area effect, AVLD "ultrasonic projector".  I retired the character right after that until I could figure out some guidelines to use for him.

 

Anyway, this is probably not appropriate for most campaigns, or most players.  But if the player and the GM are both on the same page, and trust each other, it can be a very useful tool for the right characters.  Half my Batman villain writeups now have some variant of this, to represent the fact that they always seem to have some crazy high Active Point device that they're threatening to use to turn all of Gotham into gorillas or something.

[Tasha]

Not allowed,

 

Characters may not use Summon to substitute

for another Power. For example, he cannot

Summon a group of swords and hand them out

to his friends; that’s HKA, Usable By Others. As

always, common sense, dramatic sense, and the

GM’s discretion apply. 6e1 pg 288

 

It's really for summoning Beings. The rules talk again and again about summoning beings.

Summoning powers is VPP. Batman would possibly have a cosmic Gadget VPP. VPP is the right ability for all of his gadgets.

[Tasha]

Champions Complete is even more explicit about Summon being for Beings. It also takes a full phase to activate, the summoned being takes the nearest space next to the summoner. etc

[massey]

Well, we have a 5th edition game, where it isn't as clear. And I already said, I think it does have to be some sort of being to be technically legal. However, we've also seem a writeup in one of the UNTIL superpowers database of Darkseid's Omega Effect that was built with a summon, so there's good precedence there.

[Hyper-Man]

Well, we have a 5th edition game, where it isn't as clear. And I already said, I think it does have to be some sort of being to be technically legal. However, we've also seem a writeup in one of the UNTIL superpowers database of Darkseid's Omega Effect that was built with a summon, so there's good precedence there.

 

I remember the Omega torpedo's!  I did something similar for Green Lantern's ability to effectively create vehicles.  It's so damn cheap you have to be really careful or it can easily overshadow Force Wall/Barrier builds. I can see Batman having a summon for his various Bat vehicles in a pinch but it shouldn't be a substitute for actually purchasing the vehicles properly (with XP).

 

HM

[Tasha]

Well, we have a 5th edition game, where it isn't as clear. And I already said, I think it does have to be some sort of being to be technically legal. However, we've also seem a writeup in one of the UNTIL superpowers database of Darkseid's Omega Effect that was built with a summon, so there's good precedence there.

Funny 5th edition Revised Rulebook pg 223 has the identical text as the 6e book. In fact pretty much the whole Summoning Power writeup is identical to the 6e version. 

 

So sorry still not possible. Again, in Hero it is not permissable to use one power to substitute for a power that is already available. Summoning is VERY clearly for summoning BEINGS. 

 

Tasha

 

PS if you would like I can pull 5e, 4e, 3e and 2e off the shelves to see if those are the same too...

[Hyper-Man]

from UNTIL Superpowers Database Revised (written by Steven S. Long) page 261,
 

NEGA-BEAM
Effect: Summon one 1,517-point energy attack
Target/Area Affected: One character
Duration: Instant
Range: No Range
END Cost: 61
...

Because the beam must act on its own, without any direction from the character other than a designation of the target, this power is built with Summon. The beam functions like a character or missile, and so this power treats it as one. You can find the character sheet for the beam below, though of course you can redesign the beam if you like. Obviously, this is a very unorthodox use of Summon; this is a power intended for universethreatening master villains and the like, not PCs. Players should get the GM’s permission before buying this power for a character.

Game Information: Summon 1,517-point energy attack, Slavishly Devoted (+1) (606 Active Points); Concentration (½ DCV during Phase character activates ability and until Summoned energy beam gets its first action; - ½), Extra Time (Full Phase, plus at least one extra Segment, and possibly longer, until energy beam gets to act; -½), 1 Charge (-2). Total cost: 151 points.

 

 

Here is the core attack from the Nega-Beam character sheet:

266 The Nega-Beam Effect: RKA 15d6, AVLD (defense is Power Defense; +1½), Does BODY (+1), Area Of Effect (124” Radius, but can only hit a single target; +1), Affects Physical World (+2); No Range (-½), 1 Charge which Never Recovers and destroys beam (-4) [1]

 

 

HM

[Scott Baker]

from UNTIL Superpowers Database Revised (written by Steven S. Long) page 261,

 

 

Here is the core attack from the Nega-Beam character sheet:

 

HM

There's also Animate Object, and Cyberkinetic Chauffer (which summons a vehicle) in the 2005 update. And possibly more. I did a quick check and Steve L. carried all three of these over to the Champions Powers book for 6E as well.

 

It should be noted that all 3 of these powers actually summon a thing with stats (characteristics, etc.). So from that perspective I imagine Steve might say that these are "beings" as opposed to summoning an object (like a focus).

[Hyper-Man]

I remember the Omega torpedo's!  I did something similar for Green Lantern's ability to effectively create vehicles.  It's so damn cheap you have to be really careful or it can easily overshadow Force Wall/Barrier builds. I can see Batman having a summon for his various Bat vehicles in a pinch but it shouldn't be a substitute for actually purchasing the vehicles properly (with XP).

 

HM

 

With that said - I used the shortcut method to fill out the abilities of my 5e 'rookie vesion' of Bats.

 

from - http://killershrike.com/MiscCharacters/Contributions/Hyper-Man/Supers/JLA/The%20Dark%20Knight.html

 

The Utility Belt Variable Power Pool

45     Variable Power Pool, 30 base + 15 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Half-Phase Action (+1/2), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (67 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available Gadgets (-1/2); all slots Restrainable (-1/2), OIF (-1/2)

Notes: This is just a small sampling of items carried.

    

0       1)   Batarangs:  Energy Blast 6d6 (vs. PD), 2 clips of 6 Recoverable Charges (+0) (30 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) Real Cost: 15     [6 rc]

0       2)   Exploding Batarangs:  Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6 (vs. ED), 16 Charges (+0), Penetrating (+1/2), Explosion (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) Real Cost: 15     [16]

0       3)   Tracking Device:  Detect A Class Of Things 13- (Unusual Group), Increased Arc of Perception, Range, Tracking, Variable Advantage (+1/4 Advantages; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) Real Cost: 15     0

0       4)   Gas Bombs:  Energy Blast 3d6 (vs. ED), 16 Charges (+0), No Normal Defense (Standard; +1) (30 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) Real Cost: 15     [16]

0       5)   Flash Pellets:  Sight Group Flash 4d6, 16 Charges (+0), Explosion (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) Real Cost: 15     [16]

0       6)   Energy Knuckles:  Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) Real Cost: 12     0

0       7)   Batlines:  Swinging 30", 2 clips of 6 Recoverable Charges (+0) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), Restrainable (-1/2) Real Cost: 12     [6 rc]

0       8)   Bat Vehicle Remote:  Summon 60-point Bat Vehicles, 8 Recoverable Charges (+0), Expanded Class of Beings Very Limited Group (Bat Vehicles: Boat, Car and Jet; +1/4), Invisible to Sight Group, Source Only (+1/4), Slavishly Devoted (+1) (30 Active Points); Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) Real Cost: 12

 

 

HM

[Tasha]

I actually have less of an issue with the Bat Vehicle Remote. Outside of the VPP it costs more than just buying the vehicles

[Tasha]

from UNTIL Superpowers Database Revised (written by Steven S. Long) page 261,

 

 

Here is the core attack from the Nega-Beam character sheet:

 

HM

Not really sure what the hell he was building there. Couldn't you just use Indirect and call it a day?

 

The way that the power is written up is really cheesy. If the beams can be summoned over and over again(even if it's a day between uses), it seems like it wouldn't be a limitation to have One never recovering charge.

[Hyper-Man]

I've never built or played characters that could really compete with Dr. Destroyer either.  I don't see the need for a game setting to have a 400+ Active Point attack designed to take out just 1 target.

 

I can build a much simpler 'I Win' attack via EDM UAA .

 

HM

[Hyper-Man]

I think everyone (including Steve Long) approaches the toolbox that is HERO with a different set of internal assumptions on what tools can and should be used together.  Steve's assumptions (at least for published material) tend to produce very point heavy builds (which is probably needed for first time readers).  Whereas my assumptions allow for a 400 point rookie Superman who is capable of a non-pushed 21d6 Punch with nothing more than a 60 Control Cost VPP and a base 45 STR.  There is no wrong answer here. Everybody has a different frame of reference that is equally valid.

 

HM

[pinecone]

Well, I gave this some thought as far as a "Book legal" version...and this is what I came up with. It is off the top of my head, so check the totals etc...

 

"Super Gizmo!" Boost: 8D6 Limits; "Self only", Gizmos only, Full phase action, 4x 5 min continue charge...-2?   so 16 points  to make a "Gizmo" formed from your VPP "Utility Belt" add about 4 to 5 extra Damage 4 times a day for one scene each...might be able to cut that down to 2x day and save a little more...?

[Hyper-Man]

Here's what I had already gave my rookie Reed Richards

 

20    The Ultimate Gadgeteer: Variable Power Pool (Gadget Pool), 14 base + 80 control cost,  (54 Active Points); Limited Power Technologoy Based Abilities Only (-1/4); all slots OAF Arrangement Fragile (Focus of Opportunity.  Uses parts he has on hand to work with.; -1 1/2), Requires A Roll (Skill roll; Jammed, Must be made each Phase/use, Can choose which of two rolls to make from use to use; -1 1/4), Extra Time (5 Minutes, Only to Activate, -1), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (0 DCV; -1), Unified Power (-1/4)

[Notes: This is just an example slot.  Reed can come up with almost any needed gadget given the time and something high tech to work with.]
0    1) Transdimensional Gun!: Blast 10d6, Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2) (75 Active Points); 2 clips of 12 Charges (-0) Real Cost: 12 - END=[12]

 

I had not really considered the Summon approach suggested by Massey.  I like it.  It would fit in this framework and would allow for some of the more creative ways he has saved the day in FF and other Marvel comics over the years without requiring ludicrous amounts of points be spent. Because of the Requires A Roll Limitation it's arguable that the Active Point penalty could be based on the Active Points of what is Summoned to discourage maximum use (Even with a 60 INT Reed would still need a few more Skill Levels than my rookie version starts with to use this to FULL potential).

[Lucius]

Some things bear repeating

 

This probably could have gone in the Hero System Discussion subforum, but I'm not really interested in the legality of what I've done.

especially when they were missed the first time.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Neither I nor the palindromedary actually endorse Massey's decision, or even claim to understand it.

[Tasha]

The problem is that using summon as an ersatz VPP is total cheese. It's saying that VPP is too expensive, so I am going to bend this other ability into something it wasn't designed to be.

[Tasha]

I think everyone (including Steve Long) approaches the toolbox that is HERO with a different set of internal assumptions on what tools can and should be used together.  Steve's assumptions (at least for published material) tend to produce very point heavy builds (which is probably needed for first time readers).  Whereas my assumptions allow for a 400 point rookie Superman who is capable of a non-pushed 21d6 Punch with nothing more than a 60 Control Cost VPP and a base 45 STR.  There is no wrong answer here. Everybody has a different frame of reference that is equally valid.

 

HM

 

I try to have builds that are mechanically simple. Where people can look at the build and see what I was trying to do. I am very used to working under a restrictive power limit. So that makes you think about the toolkit differently. I love Cassandra's 250 pt builds for their simplicity (usually), I tend to like giving supers a full heroic set of skills. I love her power constuctions, she does great things with a tight point budget.

 

I GM a lot, I also look at powers from a rules legality pov. Whether I would allow the power constuction in the game. I tend to be a huge proponent of Rules as Written. I love talking about how we could change the rules in a future edition to make things better, but I really hate house rules. I love maximum portability of character.

[steriaca]

The problem is that using summon as an ersatz VPP is total cheese. It's saying that VPP is too expensive, so I am going to bend this other ability into something it wasn't designed to be.

I agree with Tasha. Summoning one OmniBlast is one thing (and being able to call the SuperCar one thing), being able to pull out weapons designed as charaters is another.

 

Of corse, it might be fun if the weapons were sentient and not exactly loyal to the one summoning them. ("No, I don't feal like hitting Doctor Destroyer today. You hit him".)

[BoloOfEarth]

But with a VPP, you cannot take a limitation on the non-control cost part of the pool (now this might have changed in 6th, I'm not sure).  This means that there's an active point cost disincentive to try and duplicate the Omni-Gadget concept.

 

For instance, let's say Batman has a Gadget-based VPP.  He can pull out any gadget he needs, 4 times a game.  We'll say it's a 60 point VPP.  It's Cosmic, because he can instantly have it any time he wants.  It's also got 4 charges (-1), and OIF (-1/2, because it's in his utility belt).  He's going to be paying 96 points (60 pool + 36 control cost) to be able to have 4 uses of a 60 point power.  At that point, it's significantly more practical to just drop the charges limitation and let the guy run around using his VPP for everything.  Pay an extra 24 points and you can use it all day long (or you could drop the VPP to 50 points, still good, and it'll only be 100 pts without charges versus 96 for the original).  The game mechanic for simulating "instant power specific to this situation" is too expensive to build it that way.  And it doesn't even come close to covering guys who can pull out one very expensive attack (such as Green Arrow's "nuclear warhead arrow").

 

One thing that I think was overlooked from the OP is that VPP has changed in 6th, though you still can't put limitations on the Pool cost.  However, the Pool and Control costs no longer have to say in lockstep.  IOW, you're no longer forced to have the Pool be the max active points of a power.

 

To create the Omni-Gadget as a VPP, I believe you could do 24 Pool, 60 Control, with No Time to Change (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1), 4 Charges on VPP (-1), At least OIF on all slots (-1/2).  This costs 24 (Pool) + [60/2 (base Control) * 3 (VPP advantages) / 2.5 (VPP limitations)] = 60 points.  Any given power from the VPP is going to be maximum of 60 AP / 2.5 = 24 points, so it fits within the Pool.

 

Granted, 60 is still a lot of points, but it's much better than 96.

 

Would it be skirting the rules to do a partially limited VPP to cover the entire Utility Belt, including the Omni-Gadget, so the Pool serves double duty?  I'm thinking something like:  VPP 40 Pool, 30 Control with No Time to Change (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1), at least OIF on all slots (-1/2), Limited Powers (normal BatStuff; - 1/2), and +60 Control with No Time to Change (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1), at least OIF on all slots (-1/2), and 4 Charges on VPP (-1) for the Omni-Gadget.  That would be 40 + 22 + 36 = 98 points.  So he can normally run around with 1-2 30 AP BatStuff items, both OIF, using the normal Control and taking up the whole Pool.  Or he can pull out an Omni-Gadget (using the partially-limited Control, most likely with 1 Charge at -2 for final 15 RP, allowing him to also continue using one normal BatStuff item within the Pool.

[Hyper-Man]

One thing that I think was overlooked from the OP is that VPP has changed in 6th, though you still can't put limitations on the Pool cost.  However, the Pool and Control costs no longer have to say in lockstep.  IOW, you're no longer forced to have the Pool be the max active points of a power.

 

To create the Omni-Gadget as a VPP, I believe you could do 24 Pool, 60 Control, with No Time to Change (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1), 4 Charges on VPP (-1), At least OIF on all slots (-1/2).  This costs 24 (Pool) + [60/2 (base Control) * 3 (VPP advantages) / 2.5 (VPP limitations)] = 60 points.  Any given power from the VPP is going to be maximum of 60 AP / 2.5 = 24 points, so it fits within the Pool.

 

Granted, 60 is still a lot of points, but it's much better than 96.

 

Would it be skirting the rules to do a partially limited VPP to cover the entire Utility Belt, including the Omni-Gadget, so the Pool serves double duty?  I'm thinking something like:  VPP 40 Pool, 30 Control with No Time to Change (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1), at least OIF on all slots (-1/2), Limited Powers (normal BatStuff; - 1/2), and +60 Control with No Time to Change (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1), at least OIF on all slots (-1/2), and 4 Charges on VPP (-1) for the Omni-Gadget.  That would be 40 + 22 + 36 = 98 points.  So he can normally run around with 1-2 30 AP BatStuff items, both OIF, using the normal Control and taking up the whole Pool.  Or he can pull out an Omni-Gadget (using the partially-limited Control, most likely with 1 Charge at -2 for final 15 RP, allowing him to also continue using one normal BatStuff item within the Pool.

 

My Reed Richards The Ultimate Gadgeteer example above is a 6e build as well.

 

HM

[pinecone]

One thing that I think was overlooked from the OP is that VPP has changed in 6th, though you still can't put limitations on the Pool cost.  However, the Pool and Control costs no longer have to say in lockstep.  IOW, you're no longer forced to have the Pool be the max active points of a power.

 

To create the Omni-Gadget as a VPP, I believe you could do 24 Pool, 60 Control, with No Time to Change (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1), 4 Charges on VPP (-1), At least OIF on all slots (-1/2).  This costs 24 (Pool) + [60/2 (base Control) * 3 (VPP advantages) / 2.5 (VPP limitations)] = 60 points.  Any given power from the VPP is going to be maximum of 60 AP / 2.5 = 24 points, so it fits within the Pool.

 

Granted, 60 is still a lot of points, but it's much better than 96.

 

Would it be skirting the rules to do a partially limited VPP to cover the entire Utility Belt, including the Omni-Gadget, so the Pool serves double duty?  I'm thinking something like:  VPP 40 Pool, 30 Control with No Time to Change (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1), at least OIF on all slots (-1/2), Limited Powers (normal BatStuff; - 1/2), and +60 Control with No Time to Change (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1), at least OIF on all slots (-1/2), and 4 Charges on VPP (-1) for the Omni-Gadget.  That would be 40 + 22 + 36 = 98 points.  So he can normally run around with 1-2 30 AP BatStuff items, both OIF, using the normal Control and taking up the whole Pool.  Or he can pull out an Omni-Gadget (using the partially-limited Control, most likely with 1 Charge at -2 for final 15 RP, allowing him to also continue using one normal BatStuff item within the Pool.

this looks nice!

[massey]

Funny 5th edition Revised Rulebook pg 223 has the identical text as the 6e book. In fact pretty much the whole Summoning Power writeup is identical to the 6e version. 

 

So sorry still not possible. Again, in Hero it is not permissable to use one power to substitute for a power that is already available. Summoning is VERY clearly for summoning BEINGS. 

 

Tasha

 

PS if you would like I can pull 5e, 4e, 3e and 2e off the shelves to see if those are the same too...

 

Well, I you're making a lot of judgments based purely upon the special effects of my chosen power construct.  If I were a Final Fantasy character, and I summon Bahamut or whatever, and this big dragon shows up, shoots his breath weapon, and then fades away, seems like that would be okay with you.

 

https://youtu.be/ci_Xh2jTykA?t=40s

 

But if I want a different special effect, you've got an issue with it now.

 

As I said, the first character I used this for was pretty straightforward.  He was a shrinking gadgeteer, and he would "summon" big pieces of equipment that he had shrunk down.  Similar to the movie "Ant Man" where Michael Douglas was carrying around a tank on his keychain (except this was before Ant Man).  So Summon made perfect thematic sense, because he could just mentally will a piece of equipment into existence.  Then I decided the same thing could work for other characters.

 

Again, I know that the way we've been playing it isn't 100% book legal. For one, we've created our own Advantage to allow Summoning to work now instead of a phase from now.  There are ways to work around that, but since our group is happy with it, there's no need.

[Tasha]

If it works for your group, that's all that really matters.

My opinions tend to stick to RAW, I can be a real sick in the mud that way. Though it may be showing some weakness as to how the system deals with Summon, Buying Vehicles, Allies, Bases etc. 

 

I really find it annoying when a system has a slightly different system to handle stuff that when you look closely at them really seem to do the same thing. Hero has a bunch of these exceptions and they make the rules harder to understand/remember/use.

[BoloOfEarth]

To be fair, there are often several different ways to do the same thing in the HERO system.  (As my former boss likes to say, "There's many ways to get to Toledo."  Why someone would want to go to Toledo, I don't know, but that's neither here nor there.) 

 

I remember having an online argument with Champsguy many, many years ago about his build for a character with "invulnerable armor plates" over nearly all of his body.  Rather than having a ton of armor, he bought a relatively normal amount of defenses plus a bunch of levels in DCV, the special effect of which was that the shots don't miss, but rather bounce off his armor plates.  AoE damage, plus targeted attacks from a sufficiently accurate foe, would get through the gaps between plates.  It took me a while to realize that his build wasn't wrong, it just wasn't how I would have written it up.

 

That "many ways" versatility is one of the strengths, and potentially one of the weaknesses, of the HERO system.  It's both a blessing and a curse.