Steve Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Your average boxing glove is a pound of extra weight strapped to each hand. I'm wondering, could this add to punching damage? The equipment build in the books just adds defense to the hand area. Could it be treated as a type of fist load as well, maybe for an extra 1d6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 1 it was made to protect the hand from punching the forehead2 while adding weight it also spreads the damage of the blow over a larger area(imho it becomes a wash) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 I dont see why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 I'm with Beast on this one. Gloves don't really make you punch harder; they make it less likely you'll break your hand. They also make it less likely that you'll cut your opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 I agree with Beast and Netzilla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Actually they do make you punch harder. Two reasons, first the added weight adds force to punch, basic physics. Second which isnt really appropriate in a cinematic.game.is the fact that since.your knuckles are protected you can add more force to your punch because you don't feel the impact as much. Look up articles on head trama in Boxing. Also with Boxing by eliminating.lower targets, you have a higher percentage of head shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 I have read several articles on boxing gloves and head trauma. Many state that bare-fisted and lighter weight gloves (like those used in MMA) actually increase the amount of head trauma because the cushioning of the full sized gloves reduces the elasticity of the collision. So, while there is slightly more weight in the fist, a good portion of the impact is absorbed into deforming the glove itself, thereby reducing the overall transferal of energy. In fact, one of the theorized reasons for concussion syndrome being more prominent in boxing is because the gloves reduce the likelihood of knockouts, which causes fighters to get hit in the head more often during a match. The repeated hits cause more cumulative damage over the course of a bout. However, as stated this is a theory because you can't really do proper laboratory testing of this kind of thing on humans. Plus, the existence of the standing 8-count rule is another factor that is believed to be a strong contributor to boxing's concussion syndrome rates; which further muddies the waters. Also, while its true that gloves allow you to hit harder without breaking your hand, the "without breaking your hand" is a very important qualifier. You can hit just as hard either way, but you're more likely to break your hand without the glove, which increases fighter reluctance to hit hard targets like the head. However, you can get most of the same benefit with a good hand wrap and no glove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Hmmm.. Upon a reread, my last post may have come across a little bit strong. The issue of boxing gloves and whether they do more or less damage than an ungloved fist is actually a rather controversial issue in boxing/mma/bare-knuckle circles and you'll find a lot of contradictory articles on the issue. It doesn't help that the articles are typically authored by advocates of one sport over the others or reference research funded by those with similar agenda. Plus, the research that's out there tends to focus on damage to fighters over the course of their careers and less often on individual bouts (let alone individual strikes). Then there's the issue that MMA has only been popular in the U.S. and Europe for about the last 20 years or so, so we don't really have much data on the long-term effects. Bare-knuckle fights are actually illegal, so there's even less research there. Compare that with boxing having over a century of data to work with and comparisons get tricky. Then you get into the fact that the gloves used in boxing have changed several times over its history. There have been a handful of studies of actual individual strike damage for both gloved and ungloved, wrapped and unwrapped punches. However, these 'studies' usually aren't performed by scientists and are rife with problems. Low sample size is usually the biggest issue. Next would either be bad methodologies or vagueness as to how they measure 'striking power'. The end result is a lot of theory and conjecture in articles that will weigh in on either side of the issue. So, the best one can do is read several articles on it and decide for oneself which articles are more convincing. For my gaming purposes, it's close enough to even that I don't feel that gloves warrant extra damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 I did intramural boxing ~30 years ago, which hardly makes me an expert. But I did learn how to take a punch. (I was never really great at the whole blocking thing...) And I've been in a couple fights outside the ring. I would much rather get hit by someone wearing gloves than a bare fist; the padding more than cancels out any added weight. Now of course if a character wanted to build a special weighted glove that's intended to do more damage, I'd certainly allow that. But the standard glove is more protective than damaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 This has been very informative. Thanks! I'm creating a roster of boxers for a Dark Champions/Ninja Hero project I'm working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Sorry all I think I might have come across too strong in my last post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Now of course if a character wanted to build a special weighted glove that's intended to do more damage, I'd certainly allow that. But the standard glove is more protective than damaging. Cestus, brass knuckles and the like. More damage and protects the hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Fwiw Bigdamnhero I too hace.been hit in the head bareknuckle fight. And truthfully I don't remember any extra pain.associated with it. Ymmv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 22, 2017 Report Share Posted March 22, 2017 Most fighters I've read agree that people punch a lot harder with gloves on than they do bare handed because it protects their fists from damage on bones. Its not so much the fist is more painful innately although I wouldn't be surprised, that you are less worried about breaking a finger or tearing up your hand, so you swing harder. However, in game terms, that's not an issue, because unless you're in a SUPER gritty game, no GM is going to impose damage to your fists when you punch stuff. So its not an issue, and people go all out, all the time. I would give a few points of PD to hands only from the gloves, maybe 1 rPD. But mostly its just going to reduce lethal damage from punches slightly, probably Reduced Penetration is the right call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 If you were to give boxing gloves reduced penetration, how would you write that up in Hero Designer? Use differing modifiers or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 I'd probably just buy STR in the Powers section with the "apply modifier to full stat" at 0 points, then Reduced Penetration on that. Its kind of awkward, because then technically your lift and STR roll has reduced penetration but that's as clean as I can imagine it. Could buy the naked modifier to xd6 of damage and put it on that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted March 23, 2017 Report Share Posted March 23, 2017 Another option - consider boxing gloves to "pull the punch" on all attacks with the hands with no OCV/DCV modifier. A bit less impact than reduced penetration, but 1/2 BOD is pretty easy to compute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted March 24, 2017 Report Share Posted March 24, 2017 I'd probably just buy STR in the Powers section with the "apply modifier to full stat" at 0 points, then Reduced Penetration on that. Its kind of awkward, because then technically your lift and STR roll has reduced penetration... Heh. Now I'm trying to think of a situation where Reduced Penetration on Lifting STR might come into play. Resistant mass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 I finally decided to go with Reduced Penetration on attacks as a Side Effect on the protection the gloves give. It works for my needs that way and is easier to write up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 I finally decided to go with Reduced Penetration on attacks as a Side Effect on the protection the gloves give. It works for my needs that way and is easier to write up. I like it. Is that with or without additional damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Since it's a limitation on the extra defense for the hands only (6 normal and 2 resistant, per the writeup in the books), all punch-based attacks are Reduced Penetration while wearing them as a Side Effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted March 28, 2017 Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Got it. I was just checking if you were also throwing +1d6 in there? We've talked about it a bunch; just confirming where you ended with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2017 Got it. I was just checking if you were also throwing +1d6 in there? We've talked about it a bunch; just confirming where you ended with it. Oh, I left that off. They just provide defense to the hands in my writeup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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