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phoenix240

How you recommend building D and D's Bag of Holding and similar artifacts?

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Basically, a container that is (usually MUCH) bigger on the inside than on the out so can hold enormous amounts of material, if it can fit through the opening. And regardless of how much it contains it doesn't feel any heavier or at least not inconveniently heavier.

 

There are other possible features such as whatever item the user is looking for when they reach in being immediately available or the item being unbreakable and/or making items contained very well protected despite external conditions. 

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Not necessarily the best, certainly not the only, but here is one way.

 

Bag of Holding: (Total: 124 Active Cost, 27 Real Cost) Extra-Dimensional Movement (Related Group of Points in Time, Physical Location Same As Starting Location), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1 1/4) (124 Active Points); Conditional Power Only on objects that fit in the mouth of the bag (-1 1/2), Limited Power To send object forward to when it is removed from bag (-1), OIF (-1/2), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2) (Real Cost: 27)

 

The object is in effect sent forward in time to the moment it is removed from the bag.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Saddle Bag of Holding

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There is a power called "Extradimensional Space" in the Advanced Player's Guide II that works really well for this kind of thing:

 

A character with this Special Power has the ability to access an extradimensional storage space. Some examples of Extradimensional Space include enchanted pouches that are small enough to wear on a belt but can hold a dozen cubic meters’ worth of material, or time machines that are bigger on the inside than the outside. Extradimensional

Space does not cost END to use.
 
Extradimensional Space costs 5 Character Points for up to 1 cubic meter of extradimensional storage space. A character can double his amount of extradimensional storage space — 2 cubic meters, 4 cubic meters, 8 cubic meters, and so on — for each +5 Character Points.

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The gate version of Teleport can also be used to get the effect. Technically that would require a physical location within range of the teleport power, but there's a lot of ways to play with that. Having a fixed location be a storage room back at base would be one simple way to do it.

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Not necessarily the best, certainly not the only, but here is one way.

 

Bag of Holding: (Total: 124 Active Cost, 27 Real Cost) Extra-Dimensional Movement (Related Group of Points in Time, Physical Location Same As Starting Location), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1 1/4) (124 Active Points); Conditional Power Only on objects that fit in the mouth of the bag (-1 1/2), Limited Power To send object forward to when it is removed from bag (-1), OIF (-1/2), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2) (Real Cost: 27)

 

The object is in effect sent forward in time to the moment it is removed from the bag.

 

 

Awesomely creative approach! Fie on the Extradimensional Space power!

In fact, I wonder if we can use Extradimensional Movement and Transform (with appropriate advantages and limitations) to duplicate every power in Hero?

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Portal variant on Teleport to a Base purchased with Extradimensional as its location?

 

Could be a closet, could be an apartment complex - depends on how many extra points you put into the base for size.

 

You could even make it really fancy and give the base TK and an AI that puts whatever you ask for after you open the bag into your hand.

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Not necessarily the best, certainly not the only, but here is one way.

 

Bag of Holding: (Total: 124 Active Cost, 27 Real Cost) Extra-Dimensional Movement (Related Group of Points in Time, Physical Location Same As Starting Location), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1 1/4) (124 Active Points); Conditional Power Only on objects that fit in the mouth of the bag (-1 1/2), Limited Power To send object forward to when it is removed from bag (-1), OIF (-1/2), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2) (Real Cost: 27)

 

The object is in effect sent forward in time to the moment it is removed from the bag.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Saddle Bag of Holding

 

This is a really clever approach. 

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You could also do it as a transform to X size.  The transform activates when putting something in the bag.  The return to normal is taking it out of the bag.

 

Or shrinking usable on others. That might be more elegant.

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I like Lucius' build from an engineering, design sort of standpoint but nearly 150 points in active cost for that power is a bit ludicrous.  Which is probably why they came up with the Extradimensional Space power for APG2

I have long held that there should be a "Usable on Objects" advantage that's a lower value than "Usable as Attack".

 

Based on Lucius' build, can he trap someone in the bag indefinitely?

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I have long held that there should be a "Usable on Objects" advantage that's a lower value than "Usable as Attack".

 

Based on Lucius' build, can he trap someone in the bag indefinitely?

 

Wouldn't that just be "Usable as Attack" with "Only on Inanimate Objects" at -1 or so?

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I have long held that there should be a "Usable on Objects" advantage that's a lower value than "Usable as Attack".

 

Based on Lucius' build, can he trap someone in the bag indefinitely?

Emphasis Added

 

Not necessarily the best, certainly not the only, but here is one way.

 

Bag of Holding: (Total: 124 Active Cost, 27 Real Cost) Extra-Dimensional Movement (Related Group of Points in Time, Physical Location Same As Starting Location), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Usable As Attack (+1 1/4) (124 Active Points); Conditional Power Only on objects that fit in the mouth of the bag (-1 1/2), Limited Power To send object forward to when it is removed from bag (-1), OIF (-1/2), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2) (Real Cost: 27)

 

The object is in effect sent forward in time to the moment it is removed from the bag.

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary Saddle Bag of Holding

 

 

 

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Or shrinking usable on others. That might be more elegant.

Yeah, though of that but it might be cost restrictive.  Assuming your bag can hold 16x time as much mass, shrinking costs this much.

 

Real:39  Active:78 Shrinking (0.125 m tall, 0.0244 kg mass, -8 PER Rolls to perceive character, +8 DCV, takes +24m KB), Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Usable As Attack (x16 maximum weight per inanimate target; +1 1/2), Recipient must remain close to Grantor, Grantor can take back power at any time, Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor can only grant the power to others (78 Active Points); OAF (-1)

 

vs.

 

Real: 7 Active 15 Major Transform 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points); OAF (-1)

 

It does assume that most items will have a relatively low Body score.  Stuffing a solid steel engine block will take a while to get it in the bag with transform, though the shrinking method would get it in one pass.

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I don't know if people read KODT here, but there was a story where they put enough equipment into a bag of hefty holding to build an armed castle including guards.  The idea was they would open the bag every so often to let clean air in.  Upon entering the bag, they find all their stuff missing.  It turns out the guards took all their stuff and made a civilization out of it in the bag.  In the Hackmaster game system, the bags of holding are extraplanar gateways and that is what the KODT guys use.

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Last time we did this I went with Transform:

Little Black Bag Of Holding:  Cosmetic Transform 3d6 (Inanimate object into same object with 1/10th size and mass, healed by removing item from bag), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (13 Active Points); OAF (-1), Items cannot be used while in bag (-1), Item must start out small enough to fit through opening (-1/2), Limited Target Inanimate objects only (-1/2), No Range (-1/2) [3 RP]

I'm normally not a fan of using Transform to simulate existing Powers, like Shrinking. But in this case:

 

1. Shrinking, UAA, Persistent gets real expensive real quick, and I felt like it cost more than the power was worth; partly because...

2. The only real mechanical effect was to let a character ignore Encumbrance, and we weren't really tracking END costs closely anyway. And

3. The 3d6 Transform meant the character could only use it on items of 5-6 BODY or less. We handwaved this occasionally as appropriate to the plot, but it basically meant she could only use it for relatively "mundane" objects, which was the player's intent.

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Bag of Holding: Enhanced Strength +30, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) [45 Active Points]; OAF (-1), Limited: Only for purposes of Encumbrance (-1 1/2), Limited: Only for things that can fit through opening (-1/2) [11 RP]

 

There's my relatively simple build. If you want to place other restrictions on the bag (like extra time to store/retrieve items), then tack them on. +30 STR would upgrade a 10 STR normal to a 40 STR for encumbrance, allowing him to carry 640 kg without penalty, instead of 10 kg. +60 STR would let him carry 40,000 kg without penalty.

 

edit: had the wrong breakpoints for encumbrance.

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Bag of Holding: Enhanced Strength +30, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) [45 Active Points]; OAF (-1), Limited: Only for purposes of Encumbrance (-1 1/2), Limited: Only for things that can fit through opening (-1/2) [11 RP]

 

 

...leaving the spatial distortion aspect to special effects. I love it! Clean, elegant, cheap and boiling it all down the actual game effect you're magicking.

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Bag of Holding: Enhanced Strength +30, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) [45 Active Points]; OAF (-1), Limited: Only for purposes of Encumbrance (-1 1/2), Limited: Only for things that can fit through opening (-1/2) [11 RP]

 

There's my relatively simple build. If you want to place other restrictions on the bag (like extra time to store/retrieve items), then tack them on. +30 STR would upgrade a 10 STR normal to a 40 STR for encumbrance, allowing him to carry 640 kg without penalty, instead of 10 kg. +60 STR would let him carry 40,000 kg without penalty.

 

edit: had the wrong breakpoints for encumbrance.

 

And that's very handy for the 10 STR normal.

 

Problem is, it's less useful for the 5 STR normal Hobbit. And even more useful for a 20 STR warrior.

 

Unless you want to handwave it as always being the same as it is for a 10 STR normal

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says that's very clever though

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Bag of Holding: Enhanced Strength +30, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) [45 Active Points]; OAF (-1), Limited: Only for purposes of Encumbrance (-1 1/2), Limited: Only for things that can fit through opening (-1/2) [11 RP]

 

There's my relatively simple build. If you want to place other restrictions on the bag (like extra time to store/retrieve items), then tack them on. +30 STR would upgrade a 10 STR normal to a 40 STR for encumbrance, allowing him to carry 640 kg without penalty, instead of 10 kg. +60 STR would let him carry 40,000 kg without penalty.

 

edit: had the wrong breakpoints for encumbrance.

 

My problem with this build is that while it handles the weight issue, it ignores the volume problem.  EX: It can carry a log but the log mostly sticks out of the opening.

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My problem with this build is that while it handles the weight issue, it ignores the volume problem.  EX: It can carry a log but the log mostly sticks out of the opening.

 

Ah, but because of its special effects (magical frikkin bag) the volume gets hand waved away. Because magic.

 

Volume of a container is nebulous at best anyway. You can strap things onto a pack, for example. The rules use weight to determine encumbrance and doing the magic bag this way addresses that game mechanic.

 

I'm unsure why the owner's STR would be an issue. This magic item is basically making objects disappear (up to a limit of +30 STR worth of encumbrance). Sure, a Hobbit is going to see a greater benefit from it and a Muscleman is going to see a lesser one, but the same applies to both of them owning an identical pack animal. 

 

I might be missing something there, but instead of basing it on encumbrance, maybe just make it an object with 30 STR that does its own magical carrying (like a horse) and just happens not weigh anything while doing so. Because magic.

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