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Help with first character?

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57 minutes ago, Ninja said:

Oh, also as a curiosity, if I wanted to I could put my increased strength, speed, defenses etc into a unified power, and call it like enhanced mutant physiology, and get back 1/4 points?  

 

Just remember that by using that limitation you are telling the GM that this should be an issue your character will have to deal with.  If someone hits you with a strength drain, then every power that you have unified gets a similar size drain.  If you lose 15 STR, you will also lose 15 active points of your speed, defences etc at the same time.  Is that something you want to happen, because it will...every few sessions.

 

Doc

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On 12/10/2018 at 6:42 PM, Doc Democracy said:

 

Just remember that by using that limitation you are telling the GM that this should be an issue your character will have to deal with.  If someone hits you with a strength drain, then every power that you have unified gets a similar size drain.  If you lose 15 STR, you will also lose 15 active points of your speed, defences etc at the same time.  Is that something you want to happen, because it will...every few sessions. 

 

Doc

I just said so on another thead, but I think the idea behind such limitations is:

- You build the characters powers to your satisfaction

- you apply the limitation

- you use the free points to buy stuff you can use when the limitation is in effect.

 

Personally I never managed to do that and always fell in the trap of trying to cram more powers with the same limitations onto my sheets.

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Unified Power is basically the idea that powers actually one power.   Doing it with stats can be dangerous especially if apply it to all your stats.  Like Doc Democracy said any drain on any power is a drain on all powers.  

 

If you really want to put a limitation on your stats a better choice would be only in Hero ID, or even a focus.     

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9 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Unified Power is basically the idea that powers actually one power.   Doing it with stats can be dangerous especially if apply it to all your stats.  Like Doc Democracy said any drain on any power is a drain on all powers.  

 

If you really want to put a limitation on your stats a better choice would be only in Hero ID, or even a focus.      

In particular this limitation is a replacement for the "Elemental Controls" wich were a 3rd Framework option in 5E and earlier.

Stuff like "Kryptonian Powers, -1/4" with enemies building powers to "Drain Kryptonian Powers". Or even stuff like "Physical Complication: Red Sunlight causes drain on Kryptonian powers"

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On 12/10/2018 at 10:10 AM, Ninja said:

Ok I think I’m zeroing in on this.  Say I go:

 

Str 40; Dex 23; Con 25; Int 18; Ego 18; Pre 18; OCV 8; DCV 8; OMCV 1; DMCV 3; Spd 6; PD 10; ED 10; Rec 15; End 50; Body 15; Stun 50; Cost 232

 

Everyman skills are acting,  climbing,  concealment,  deduction,  language, professional skill, paramedics, persuasion,  shadowing, stealth, vehicles.

 

Skills: Stealth 3; Analyze fighting style 3; Acrobatics 3; Breakfall 3; Conversation 3; Persuasion 3; Climbing 3; English 4

 

Martial arts: 2 hth dmg classes 8; Killing strike 4; Martial strike 4; Martial dodge 4; +4combat skill for all martial arts, large group, 20; passing strike 5; leg sweep 3; Martial throw 4

Total skills 77

 

Powers: Resistant protection 15pd/ed 45; Mental defense 10; Extra running 8; Extra leaping 8

Cost: 71

 

Total points: 380

 

 

That leaves me 20 points to buy a “Ninjitsu” multipower.  Now if I’m understanding this right, I can use limitations to add more points?  So say I take Restrainable -1/2; that means I can’t switch powers if I’m restrained,  but now I have a 40 point multipower pool.  Then as I gain more CP I can add powers to it for like 1-4 points after I divide the cost by 10?  And if I can think up one more limitation I can get that pool to 60 points?

 

I might need to change my skills around a bit I don’t know if they fairly reflect a normal persons expertise, I may be cheating.

 

Also, my Martial arts combat skill levels, +4, they won’t apply if I use an action not in my martial arts, like a normal throw or grab right?

 

Howd I do?

 

From the good start on a build which you have at this point, you get into a lot of personal preference...so I'll just express some personal preferences and you can take them for what you will.

 

I'm not really seeing what the 18 EGO is getting you unless you are planning on the character having some crippling psychological complications which you are going to need to overcome every session. :) I usually don't buy it up that high unless it's for a mentalist.

 

I'd consider buying Defense Maneuver I  (3 points: no attacker is considered to be attacking from behind) and Defense Maneuver II (2 points: eliminates multiple attacker bonus for attackers the character perceives) since, during action, you're going to be groundbound and in hand-to-hand combat much more often than not. You don't want to be swarmed effectively or be easily ambushed.

 

Considering your high STR, a 1d6 Killing Strike isn't going to mean much to your character and I think you'd end up never using it. I'd much prefer to put those points toward a Defensive Strike which is going to be useful basically any time your character is slugging it out toe-to-toe. I've played high STR characters without much beyond Martial Dodge, Defensive Strike, Martial Strike, and Legsweep and have been perfectly fine (i.e. those being the core Martial arts maneuvers I end up using frequently and the rest are window dressing which comes in handy on the rare occasion).

 

Instead of paying 8 each for Running and Leaping, you could put them into a multipower. For example:

 

8 Multipower - Try Keeping Up With Me (8 active points)

1u Running +8

1u Leaping +16

 

That takes your cost down from 16 to 10. You could take those points and spend them elsewhere or you could increase the size of the multipower, increase the number of movement power slots, and/or play with some advantages. For example for 15 points you could get:

 

12 Multipower - Try Keeping Up With Me (12 active points)

1u Running +8 (20 total) (0 END cost on total running +1/2)

1u Leaping +16 (20 total) (0 END cost on total leaping +1/2)

1u Swimming +16 (20 total) (0 END cost on total swimming +1/2)

 

In that example, you'd be saving a point, adding Swimming, and fixing some of your END problems by having all your movement at 0 END.

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6 hours ago, Christopher said:

In particular this limitation is a replacement for the "Elemental Controls" wich were a 3rd Framework option in 5E and earlier.

Stuff like "Kryptonian Powers, -1/4" with enemies building powers to "Drain Kryptonian Powers". Or even stuff like "Physical Complication: Red Sunlight causes drain on Kryptonian powers"

I got the idea when I saw a build someone did of Luke cage.  All his stats were unified powers and strength had decreased endurance.  

 

But out you guys bring up good points.  I’ll just skip that idea.

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1 hour ago, archer said:

 

 

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

From the good start on a build which you have at this point, you get into a lot of personal preference...so I'll just express some personal preferences and you can take them for what you will.

 

I'm not really seeing what the 18 EGO is getting you unless you are planning on the character having some crippling psychological complications which you are going to need to overcome every session. :) I usually don't buy it up that high unless it's for a mentalist.

 

I think I bought it for defense against mentalists?  I just liked the idea of being strong willed.

Quote

 

Considering your high STR, a 1d6 Killing Strike isn't going to mean much to your character and I think you'd end up never using it. I'd much prefer to spend those points toward a Defensive Strike which is going to be useful basically any time your character is slugging it out toe-to-toe. I've played high STR characters without much beyond Martial Dodge, Defensive Strike, Martial Strike, and Legsweep and have been perfectly fine (i.e. those to be the core Martial arts maneuvers I end up using frequently and the rest are window dressing which comes in handy on the rare occasion).

 I’m not 100% sure I understand how dmg classes vs d6’s work, but I was under the impression they added to that.  So with 40 strength and 2 dmg classes from martial arts wouldn’t it be more like 3 or 4 d6 dmg killing attack?

 

Martial throw just seems fun.  I was wondering if I’d miss martial grab or escape if I didn’t take it.

 

i took passing strike for 3 reasons, was envisioning it as a flying kick, seemed cool.  Seems like move through does a lot of damage?  And was planning of buying swinging with my ninjitsu multipower, simulating grappling hook, and figured a fast moving swinging flying kick would be cool? Maybe it would never work I dunno.

 

 

Quote

 

The English language skill should be free in the everyman skills (saving you 4 points). Or if English isn't your native language, your native language should be listed in your everyman skills and you pay for knowing English.

So English is second language, so I played 3 to be fluent + 1 because it’s unrelated language.  

 

 

Quote

 

Instead of paying 8 each for Running and Leaping, you could put them into a multipower. For example:

 

8 Multipower - Try keeping up with me (8 active points)

1u Running +8

1u Leaping +16

 

That takes your cost down from 16 to 10. You could take those points and spend them elsewhere or you could increase the size of the multipower, increase the number of movement power slots, and/or play with some advantages. For example for 15 points you could get:

 

12 Multipower - Try keeping up with me (12 active points)

1u Running +8 (20 total) (0 END cost on total running +1/2)

1u Leaping +16 (20 total) (0 END cost on total leaping +1/2)

1u Swimming +16 (20 total) (0 END cost on total swimming +1/2)

 

In that example, you'd be saving a point, adding Swimming, and fixing some of your END problems by having all your movement at 0 END.

I’m not sure I understand how the math is working for the multipower.  Are you buying 8 for the multipower, then 8 points for running, bought as a fixed power so /10 makes it cost 1 point? Same for the jumping.  Does that then mean I can only either run fast or jump high in the same turn but I can’t do both at the same time?

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1 hour ago, Ninja said:

 I’m not 100% sure I understand how dmg classes vs d6’s work, but I was under the impression they added to that.  So with 40 strength and 2 dmg classes from martial arts wouldn’t it be more like 3 or 4 d6 dmg killing attack?

You got it right and the other poster might have overlooked the STR adding. Or maybe you wrote it up so STR does not add by accident?

 

A 1D6 KA (Killing Damage Attack) has 3 DC

A 3D6 Blast or HTH attack (normal damage attack) has 3 DC

A 4D6 HTH Attack, Armor Piercing (+1/4) has 5 DC. The AP advantage is a "Advantage that affects DC calculation"

 

40 STR would add 8 DC to that (not to Blast, RKA and "No STR bonus" attacks of course). Wich is then reverted back into dice, depending on the advantages.

 

Only simple way of looking at it is:
You got 8 DC from STR. Melee Attacks add their DC and Advantages into the mix.

 

1D6 HKA and 40 STR would be 11 DC or a 3.5D6 HKA.

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2 hours ago, Ninja said:

 

 

 I’m not 100% sure I understand how dmg classes vs d6’s work, but I was under the impression they added to that.  So with 40 strength and 2 dmg classes from martial arts wouldn’t it be more like 3 or 4 d6 dmg killing attack?

 

 

I'm not completely sure I understand it in 6e since it might have changed from earlier editions :). I missed the DC in your Martial Arts description which I why I didn't count it in earlier but this is how I understand it would work.

 

The maneuver gives you half of a d6 in killing attack which can be boosted to 1d6 with your STR. You can only put in STR to add to the damage up until it doubles the original dice in damage. After that point, adding additional STR does absolutely nothing.

 

The damage classes don't add much very quickly (page 72 of Champions Complete).

+1 DC adds +1 so the attack would be 1d6+1

A +2 DC adds half of a d6 so the attack would be 1.5d6

 

With a 1.5d6 attack, your maximum BODY done would be 9 and maximum STUN would be 27. The average BODY would be around 5 and average STUN of 15 (and that average damage would do zero damage to the 5PD of a brick wall, for example, while hitting it with your Martial Strike would overcome the wall's defense and go on to do 5 BODY of damage on average).

 

Now if I'm wrong about when the STR is considered and the .5d6 from the DC adds directly to the base attack of .5d6, that would give the attack 1d6 (or up to 2d6 when adding your STR).

 

Either of those doesn't seem like it's worth the points, especially when you are considering a ninja multipower where you could straight up use those points to buy a slot with a bigger killing attack than the maneuver would give you.

 

(Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding how killing attacks work in which case, anyone feel free to correct me where wrong.)

 

Quote

Martial throw just seems fun.  I was wondering if I’d miss martial grab or escape if I didn’t take it.



 

Fun is perfectly fine, that's sort of the point when you get beyond "my character is so incapable of doing anything that I'm continually frustrated" (and you are far beyond that point, in my opinion). :)

 

I'm a fan of Martial Grab when I have the points. As for Martial Escape, your character has a fairly high STR to start with so I don't see a huge need there. For that matter, if you have a high enough OCV, you don't really "need" Martial Grab.

 

But considering you seem to want so many levels invested into Martial Arts, you might just want to buy all your maneuvers up front. It's often easier to convince a picky GM to let you buy an extra DC or extra level than it is to get him to agree to letting you buy an extra maneuver.

 

Or alternatively, you could buy levels in all hand-to-hand combat rather buying levels in your Martial Arts. That'd let you move levels over into regular grab, regular block, regular disarm, improvised hand to hand weapons like swinging a car at the bad guy, etc. The levels would be more expensive so you couldn't afford as many at the first but you might make up the value through the extra flexibility.

 

Quote

I’m not sure I understand how the math is working for the multipower.  Are you buying 8 for the multipower, then 8 points for running, bought as a fixed power so /10 makes it cost 1 point? Same for the jumping.  Does that then mean I can only either run fast or jump high in the same turn but I can’t do both at the same time?

 

Exactly right. I used the "u" to designate the fixed slot rather than the "f" which is used in Champions Complete because I'm old and forgot they changed it from one letter to the other. ;)

 

If you buy the running and leaping separately, you could in theory do a half move as Running then use the rest of your phase as a half move of Leaping. When you buy them together in a multipower, you are getting one or the other on each of your phases. You are getting a large break on the cost by giving up some flexibility in some cases which hopefully wouldn't come up often: your Running without using the multipower has a half move of 6 meters while your half move with the multipower would be 10m. How often would not having access to that extra 4m half move of Running screw you over in the hopefully rare cases when you might want to Run and Leap in the same phase? Then compare that to the number of points a multipower would save you and what you could spend those point on.

 

For me, the answer always comes out that I'd rather have the advantages of the multipower when it comes to movement.

 

====

 

I didn't mention it earlier but when building your character, you should consider versatility, synergy, and whether you want to take your character in unexpected directions.

 

For example, I noticed your character had no enhanced senses of any sort which could be problematic since martial artist characters often operate in darkness. I suggested Defense Manuevers I and II but you could go beyond that with one of the enhanced vision powers.

 

If you wanted to go with the Swimming route in a movement multipower, your character could be very effective underwater if he had some Life Support to go with it. And Ultraviolet Perception works well underwater.

 

You could weave those ideas together by doing something along the lines of

 

2 Life Support - Safe Environment: high pressure and intense cold (OIF costume)

2 Life Support - Expanded Breathing: underwater (OAF high-tech facemask which filters oxygen out of the water)

2 Ultraviolet Perception (OAF goggles)

1 Transportation Familiarity: SCUBA (this completely eliminates underwater fighting penalties)

 

You spend 7 points and add a whole new dimension to your character. Villains looking at you can tell your costume does something special but most probably couldn't figure out what it does without close examination, which gives them something else to consider when confronting you (and something else to do if they capture you other than torturing you, "gotta get that costume off before he wakes up"). The facemask lets you breath underwater but for all most people know, it could protect you from gas attacks as well so they might not choose to hit you with their area of effect NND gas attack which is foiled with a simple gas mask.

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1 hour ago, Christopher said:

You got it right and the other poster might have overlooked the STR adding. Or maybe you wrote it up so STR does not add by accident?

 

A 1D6 KA (Killing Damage Attack) has 3 DC

A 3D6 Blast or HTH attack (normal damage attack) has 3 DC

A 4D6 HTH Attack, Armor Piercing (+1/4) has 5 DC. The AP advantage is a "Advantage that affects DC calculation"

 

40 STR would add 8 DC to that (not to Blast, RKA and "No STR bonus" attacks of course). Wich is then reverted back into dice, depending on the advantages.

 

Only simple way of looking at it is:
You got 8 DC from STR. Melee Attacks add their DC and Advantages into the mix.

 

1D6 HKA and 40 STR would be 11 DC or a 3.5D6 HKA.

So the martial arts maneuver killing strike is 1/2 D6, plus 2 dc that I bought.  It says adds strength as a hka, so one dmg class per 5 points.  40 strength, so 8 DC, so +10 in total?  Why isn’t that 3d6?  Guess I’m confused.  But that for 4 points.

 

Is is the thing about not being able to increase damage past double accurate or is that from older edition?

 

vs a killing attack power.  30 points would get 2d6, plus 1d6 per 15 points of strength,  so 8 DC?  So 4.5 D6?

then divide the cost by 10 to put in multipower and that’s 3 points?  So buying a killing attack through powers is more efficient than through martial arts?  Only downside being it’s part of a multipower, and I can’t use my  +4 martial arts skill?

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1 hour ago, archer said:

 

I'm not completely sure I understand it in 6e since it might have changed from earlier editions :). I missed the DC in your Martial Arts description which I why I didn't count it in earlier but this is how I understand it would work.

 

The maneuver gives you half of a d6 in killing attack which can be boosted to 1d6 with your STR. You can only put in STR to add to the damage up until it doubles the original dice in damage. After that point, adding additional STR does absolutely nothing.

 

The damage classes don't add much very quickly (page 72 of Champions Complete).

+1 DC adds +1 so the attack would be 1d6+1

A +2 DC adds half of a d6 so the attack would be 1.5d6

 

With a 1.5d6 attack, your maximum BODY done would be 9 and maximum STUN would be 27. The average BODY would be around 5 and average STUN of 15 (and that average damage would do zero damage to the 5PD of a brick wall, for example, while hitting it with your Martial Strike would overcome the wall's defense and go on to do 5 BODY of damage on average).

 

Now if I'm wrong about when the STR is considered and the .5d6 from the DC adds directly to the base attack of .5d6, that would give the attack 1d6 (or up to 2d6 when adding your STR).

 

Either of those doesn't seem like it's worth the points, especially when you are considering a ninja multipower where you could straight up use those points to buy a slot with a bigger killing attack than the maneuver would give you.

 

(Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding how killing attacks work in which case, anyone feel free to correct me where wrong.)

 

 

Fun is perfectly fine, that's sort of the point when you get beyond "my character is so incapable of doing anything that I'm continually frustrated" (and you are far beyond that point, in my opinion). :)

 

I'm a fan of Martial Grab when I have the points. As for Martial Escape, your character has a fairly high STR to start with so I don't see a huge need there. For that matter, if you have a high enough OCV, you don't really "need" Martial Grab.

 

But considering you seem to want so many levels invested into Martial Arts, you might just want to buy all your maneuvers up front. It's often easier to convince a picky GM to let you buy an extra DC or extra level than it is to get him to agree to letting you buy an extra maneuver.

 

Or alternatively, you could buy levels in all hand-to-hand combat rather buying levels in your Martial Arts. That'd let you move levels over into regular grab, regular block, regular disarm, improvised hand to hand weapons like swinging a car at the bad guy, etc. The levels would be more expensive so you couldn't afford as many at the first but you might make up the value through the extra flexibility.

 

I only did it that way because I thought it was more efficient, I could obviously be completely wrong.  +4 to martial arts for 20 or +3 to all hand to hand for 24?

 

i was kind of thinking as I leveled I’d buy more multipowers and stick to the maneuvers I started with.  Maybe that’s a poor choice.  Aside from the ones you listed as must haves, dodge, martial strike, defensive strike, leg sweep, how would you rank the others?

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

 

Exactly right. I used the "u" to designate the fixed slot rather than the "f" which is used in Champions Complete because I'm old and forgot they changed it from one letter to the other. ;)

 

If you buy the running and leaping separately, you could in theory do a half move as Running then use the rest of your phase as a half move of Leaping. When you buy them together in a multipower, you are getting one or the other on each of your phases. You are getting a large break on the cost by giving up some flexibility in some cases which hopefully wouldn't come up often: your Running without using the multipower has a half move of 6 meters while your half move with the multipower would be 10m. How often would not having access to that extra 4m half move of Running screw you over in the hopefully rare cases when you might want to Run and Leap in the same phase? Then compare that to the number of points a multipower would save you and what you could spend those point on.

 

For me, the answer always comes out that I'd rather have the advantages of the multipower when it comes to movement.

 

====

 

I didn't mention it earlier but when building your character, you should consider versatility, synergy, and whether you want to take your character in unexpected directions.

 

For example, I noticed your character had no enhanced senses of any sort which could be problematic since martial artist characters often operate in darkness. I suggested Defense Manuevers I and II but you could go beyond that with one of the enhanced vision powers.

I thought about buying enhanced perception, hearing, or darkvision.  Wasn’t sure how often it would come up.  I’d be the only stealthy one I think.

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

If you wanted to go with the Swimming route in a movement multipower, your character could be very effective underwater if he had some Life Support to go with it. And Ultraviolet Perception works well underwater.

 

You could weave those ideas together by doing something along the lines of

 

2 Life Support - Safe Environment: high pressure and intense cold (OIF costume)

2 Life Support - Expanded Breathing: underwater (OAF high-tech facemask which filters oxygen out of the water)

2 Ultraviolet Perception (OAF goggles)

1 Transportation Familiarity: SCUBA (this completely eliminates underwater fighting penalties)

 

You spend 7 points and add a whole new dimension to your character. Villains looking at you can tell your costume does something special but most probably couldn't figure out what it does without close examination, which gives them something else to consider when confronting you (and something else to do if they capture you other than torturing you, "gotta get that costume off before he wakes up"). The facemask lets you breath underwater but for all most people know, it could protect you from gas attacks as well so they might not choose to hit you with their area of effect NND gas attack which is foiled with a simple gas mask.

That’s a cool idea.

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