Spence

OK, so I have to jump in here and get some clarification, term’wise, because I do not think your gaming dictionary is the same as mine. To me in TTRPG’s the terms “sandbox campaign” and “narrative based RPG’s” are refer to completely different subjects. One is setting structure and the other describes game mechanics. There are many campaign types, here are just a few as examples as I define them. You have Theme Campaigns where the players take roles within an “organization” and play out their adventures within that theme. They are Holy Knights, they are Pirates, they are Spies, they are Lawmen in the Wild West and so on. Players make all their own decisions, but they stay within the campaign theme. So, if the campaign is about British 00 agents in the cold war, the players will all be 00’s (like James Bond) or support (like Q) and all either be the “good guys” or maybe all be the “bad guys”. But everyone will play as part of the same agency and will have the advantage of developing develop arch-foes over time. This is one type of campaign that take a lot of prep on the GMs part. They have to research enough material to support be prepared for what ever direction to players go. When I ran a cold war spy game I prepped submarine pens, KGB facilities, military bases, research centers, high finance companies, dive bars, casinos, common civil aircraft and so on. As a GM I might give them a mission, but the players never ever completed it the way I thought they would. You have Objective Campaigns. Most D&D campaigns are objective campaigns. They have a little pre-structure, but they are really a loose framework so the PC’s can kill stuff and loot while giving a nod to a loose story. Much easier to GM because if you have the Monster Manual and DM’s Guide for treasures you can pretty much make it up as you go or use a pre-gen adventure as a very very general and non-binding guide. The Sandbox Campaign is brutally boring for GM even if some players like it. That is because a sandbox campaign is exactly that. An open sandbox with nothing. The players just ramble around doing whatever with no real rhyme or reason. Back when I was talked into running one, I based it in Forgotten Realms. Some of the players just wandered around looting and pillaging, one just wanted to craft all the time. Another wanted to be a thief and gamble. Not a single common theme or direction that I could plan for and build any kind of adventure that might have been interesting. It was continuous grindingly boring for me. Every “sandbox campaign” I have run or played in was the same. They may be great if run by a computer, but they have very little attraction for a GM that can spell their name without help. Now to me “Narrative” refers to the complexity of the rules. Pathfinder, Hero and D&D “Rule Based Games” are all similar because they require the use of dice to decide most anything and have a higher degree of complexity for building PC’s and adversaries. The rule structures give greater support to players by allowing them to play their PC even if they do not possess in-depth background knowledge or are thespians. They are "crunchy". On the other end of the spectrum are “Narrative Games” also known as “Rules Lite Games”. For these games it is all about acting with loose nods to any game mechanic. Some are so rules lite that you can play multiple sessions without ever rolling a die. It can be great with the right group of players, but it takes a lot of effort to make sure the game is not dominated by one or two players. For myself I prefer run two types of games. Either a Rule Based Game like Hero & D&D 5th or Semi-Narrative Game such as GUMSHOE where the players can take advantage of narrative flexibility, but the rules ensure that the spotlight is shared by dividing areas of expertise and PC ability an the quite introvert can contribute just as easily as the drama major. As for the setting to run the games in, I prefer to run Objective or Theme Campaigns. But from reading your posts, I do not think you define things the same. I’m interested in hearing how you define things.

I wouldn't say removed. I'd just tuck them in Skills and Abilities. No flying or anything, but some of the early pulp westerns has abilities that were clearly extra-normal.

Same thing. Depends on how people talk where you grew up or where you currently are.

I've been watching this too. Good show.

Some good stuff here, thanks

Well, yes. But not exactly stats in the traditional sense. More of a + or - to be applied to player rolls based on the differences between of the two (maybe three) ships in question. The number is applied directly to the PCs skill roll. For instance the PC's are on a longship trying to cut off a cog that is attempting to reach the shore, it might have a +3 to maneuver and +4 for speed. These are not the exact bonuses, just examples if the concept. The PC at the steering oar would gain a +3 to their skill roll to accomplish a maneuver against the cog. I'd need to work out ground rules for exact numbers if I ever wanted to share, currently when I do this in a game I guesstimate as I go. But my primary point was the one that I didn't actually write down That point was going to be ranting about how a ship book can call itself a ship book without some kind of deck plans. Not to mention a few details of its use. Also the ships should at least be from the same general development level. Not technology developed 3 or 4 hundred years apart.

So, my topic title is “Ships as locations instead of characters”. The first thing I should do is try to explain what I mean by that, and then solicit some opinions. I’ll start my thoughts by asking some questions about an inn. If you are running a fantasy sword swinger, you know, warriors and wizards and rogues and such, and they come across an inn on their travels. Do you go to the Vehicles and Bases section of the rules and stat out the inn? Or do you sketch/draw out a floor plan and list some NPC names and short descriptions and then run on the fly? That is what I do. I may fill in more detail if the party stays there for a while. But I have never bothered to stat an inn. Why? Because the “stats” are irrelevant to the game. If I need to know the BDY/Def of a wall, I can either make it up or use the Object Table to grab the appropriate numbers. I have a sketch/drawing because if the payers can see the layout of the place they are in, they can roleplay far better. What has this to do with ships? Well for years I would stat out ships using the Vehicle rules and sometimes have a deckplan so the players could see where they were. As tile went on I put more and more emphasis on having a great deckplan because I noticed that a really good deckplan really got the players into a session. And I noticed than most of the ship board adventure wasn’t “ship vs ship”. It was “Ship going from A to B, with 90% of the session taking place on/inside of it. When there was “ship to ship” action is was usually a chase followed by a bit of long ranged action followed by boarding. Once again, PC skills and abilities drove the ship movement and 90% of the action was when the two ships were grappled and the action was on/inside the ship. After a while I stopped stat’ing out ships at all. I made sure I had a decent picture of each ship to give the players a visual idea, a general deckplan with all the decks drawn out (not hard for pre-gunpowder sailing ships). Not over detailed, but enough so the players had an idea of where the main parts were. And then a short card with a few notes for ship action, things like relative size of vessels, relative speeds and relative maneuvering. Notice I didn’t say what any of them were, I just said “relative” this or that. Why? Because in game the players are going to describe things and their PC’s will make skill rolls or ability checks and I will describe the result. A longship will maneuver rings around a Carrack. Unless there is a strong wind and a driving sea, in which case the bigger and stronger ship with more freeboard that can raise and hold more canvas will out run the longship. Speed and maneuverability for sailing vessels on the ocean is not a one size fits all. It depends on many factors and the weather conditions at that moment. So, like that inn or like a village. I stopped “stat’ing” them out. Like that inn, I make sure I have a good layout map and a list of NPC’s. Or I should say I have a card with the various ships that may be encountered and a short “value” list of their relative abilities plus a layout map/deckplan for each and a NPC list to draw on. I’ll add more detail as a ship becomes more important to the game. In the end though, “stat’ing” out a ship for an RPG is just a waste of time. I know people will say that you need all the details so you can have a fight between ships. But do you? I have played a lot of naval wargames, miniature games and scifi games and they all had detailed rules for movement both tactical and strategic and combat. But I have never needed to use that type of detail for an RPG. For an RPG the players need to be able to visualize the ships. They need to be able to know were ship stuff is. Like where there are the passageways and ladders. Where are holds, how many holds. And so on. And this is why I have pretty much given up on so called “RPG Ship Sourcebooks” because they usually have very little of anything actually useful. They are usually just text and use ship type names with little regard to what and when they actually existed and 99% fail to have any kind of information that a GM can actually use to portray the ship. Usually each ship has a small pic of it from the side or an angle and an occasional item that provides an idea of scale. Most times that is way off and usually the artist based the drawing of one of many drawings that share the same thing, zero research into what a real ship of the type actually looked like. For the last decade all of medieval fantasy has had nothing but Black Pearl’s running around. If I were to write a ship supplement, it would present the ships as a location. As a stage for the PC's to act out the adventure. Deckplans and a good visual of the ship so players could actually visualize them. And a brief, very brief description of various attributes, just enough to allow the GM to describe the action. Thoughts?

I actually enjoyed the shows at the beginning. But there is one thing that I have come to hate in TV to the point of real world revulsion and a need to vomit. 1) Deep dark conspiracies. Every frakking thing is a conspiracy these days and the one thing they completely lack the ability to do is actually write an interesting conspiracy story. And unfortunately, it seems that is all Hollywood can seem to crank out these days. I sometimes think that movie Idiocracy was actually a documentary. Fortunately I have books I can read, there are some interesting small indy shows out there and I have access to lot of foreign made films and shows with subtitling. I still watch some Follywood, but not nearly as much as I did.

I watched it on BBC America. I thought it was a great show in a field of remakes and copies. I was disappointed when it was not continued.

I took the use of the word "seemingly" to mean that up to this point the sources available to the writer are not considered 100% authoritative. Or "I am almost positive this is happening, but I cannot find a specific confirmation from the principles stating it". Since I haven't actually followed any of this, I don't know if any of this true or not.

This is something that always confuses me. I have not published anything, so I am definitely not any kind of expert. But I do support KS's. Fantasy Hero Complete was formatted like CC and was put out at ~220-250(?) pages (I'm on my phone and don't have it in front of me) on KS and raised $20125. The Sassoon Files was ~200 for a KS total of $24183. But SF is in glorious color with glossy paper and photographs that resemble period photos. A modernized version of CC or FHC would not need an author. It would need a editor and layout person to update the text for known errata and place the text on the pages. I cannot understand how Hero cannot afford the art needed to update to a modern look when multiple projects are put out annually with great color and art plus being written from the ground up within 1 to 4 thousand dollars in cost. If I was I my home machine I have several great RPG books that funded for less than FHC but are still colorful with great relevant art. Like I said, I am not an expert, but what I observe doesn't add up.

Traveling back in time to try and tell Lena the secret at different times sounds kinda time travel'ly to me.... 🤔

Oh well, I guess I didn't miss much. With rare exception time travel is the "filler" of TV shows. Signs that the writing team was out of ideas.....

Which episode? I have given up on most CW supers shows, but still occasionally watch one.

Don't get me started. I am a big naval history buff. Not the Who's and Political Why's, but the technology and tactics of naval vessels pre-aircraft. I have been so disappointed by so called RPG Ship supplements that I honestly think the people who made them should be sued out of existence for stupidity or at least fraud for using the term Ships. Just reading them is painful. It is an RPG, so I am not expecting realism, but at least spend 2 minutes on Wikipedia to make sure that the three ships in the product existed within 500 years of each other. It would be like making a gladiatorial RPG supplement that that takes place in ancient Rome and features races in the coliseum. Your PC's get to choose between a Chariot, a motorcycle and a Formula One race car. And then have the writers say "What? Those have all been used in racing!" as if that means that makes it all good for ancient Rome. I was thoroughly disappointed in the bait and switch fraud RPG called 7th Sea. I backed it and even though they talked up the seafaring part, the game was basically "urban political three musketeers" with lip-service for the Sea's part. A whooping 14 pages out of the 296 page rulebook for seafaring. And then they go for "vague narrative" with the eight ship "types" being drawn, apparently randomly, from a span of 500 years of technological development. Not to mention the remaining 13 pages give an equally vague cursory skim over of ships and crews. All in all, the game has literally nothing to do with seafaring beyond what the GM can create. Totally disappointing. I can understand keeping things to just enough detail to use in play. Too much information is worse than to little sometimes. But if you claim your book is about breeds of dogs and then you start discussing Hereford, Angus, and Brahmas (breeds of cattle) then I will say your book is garbage. Not matter how correct you are in the details about cattle. When I buy a book about dogs, I expect dogs. If you are an RPG writer and want to put out a D&D book of ships, at least take five minutes on wiki to make sure you are actually using period ships and not the USS Enterprise . Wikipedia is not my choice for real information, but apparently it is 100% more informed than 99% of gamers, at least for this subject. Hmmmmm..... well that touched a trigger.... Rant over

B..b...but..... It's SPOON!

I am saddened that you are incapable of understanding and liking the greatest Superhero call to battle there is

One of those movies that never gets old...

I miss good stories and great writing. It seems that every series has to be written as one long arc about yet another "deep dark conspiracy". With many episodes lacking any content beyond a minimal blek and deliberately stretched filler so they can make the episode count for the season.

Not quite. A good step forward, but no really a full transition. 6th Ed Fantasy Hero was IMO the best spiffed up Hero books. But it, and the other 6th Ed books, were more 1970's textbooks upgraded to a better paper and a few color pics inserted. M&M books are fully realized and originally designed as full color books, from paper to borders (including colored chapter tagging) to text to art. When I flip through my M&M books it is cooler throughout. When I flip through a Hero 6th book, it is a sea of black and white text with the island of color. Don't get me wrong, I still think it the books like Fantasy Hero 6th (and 5th) are some of the best RPG supplements for for content out there. But there has not been an official Hero product to date ( that I have seen) that escapes the text book vibe.

Well said. One thing I would like to see is Champions products with M&M production value....

I have chosen to be optimistic

There are people assigned to contain them. Especially at Cons where they are forced to use soap and water before they are allowed in......

Another property they should have just left alone....

In a fantasy game I'd call them Explorers or Border Scouts. The people that guard or expand the frontiers.