Farkling

Perhaps I am prejudiced against partially limited advantages in the first place. I'd let him have it instead of messing around with the math. And, if I may point out... If he is turned Desolid by other means his power is effectively locked out. I do NOT see how this is any more cheesy than applying OHID in the first place. In the case of OHID, when is it a limitation if the character spends nearly all of his adventuring time in his Heroic ID? (I'm picturing Thor, Captain Marvel, Colossus, Iron Man, Green Lantern). He is in his heroic ID except at night when sleeping, and when he awakens, he has his shower and his wheaties and *poof* has his powers back. I don't see a difference logically if you allow one or the other. If the actual question is for allowing BOTH, then slap the player and tell him his powers are OHID only...and that he can change ID's by going Desolid. I hear that echoing in my head...that's a poor choice of phrase. Not True. And I will restate...if he is turned Desolid by OTHER means (with a variant special effect of course) then the ARW will not work and I find it no more of a munchkin effect than -1/4 (power unusable within 5' of Green Kryponite)

*shrugs* I think I would still have built the Demon on a multiform, seeing there are some differences, and you're alrady buying Multiform anyway. Jack could take a Physicla Limit in that case that he cannot Multiform to the Demon....or a Psych Limit if he could eventually become aware of the demon...(or have awareness forced upon him) It sounds like the Demon IS mentally different than Oliver from your description, but does NOT suffer from Multiform amnesia. Is Oliver as strong and invulnerable to harm like the demon is? If you bought most of hispowers OHID, it should probably be a third multiform. But that's my two cents...

Hey...I'll post the genre comparisons for a minute... Dr. Blake and Thor in the comics...OHID limitation. Thor and Blake are esentially the same person with the same abilities. Blake has an amazing amount of knowledge about Norse Mythology, and Thor has access to Medical training and kowledge. One person who becomes something greater. The size and bulk of Thor are not appreciably more than a human. Suppression of magical powers will reduce Thor to wimpy Dr. Blake. Colossus of the X-Men is a classic OHID also, using persistant growth to model the size change, or a Physical Limitation (200 kg, OHID, Slightly Limiting, All The Time). Captain Marvel (Shazam!!) is a classic OHID character. The Hulk and Banner...can be written either way, as OHID or Multiform. The primary difference is that Banner and the Hulk have overlapping psych limits, but no identical ones, and very few common skills. (Banner is a wimpy, repressed, analytic, control freak, the Hulk is a violent tantrum ridden child with the STR of a god) I would use Multiform for the classic Hulk change...the time delay can be built in, and accidental changes will work nicely for the rage. Banner is defined as the "True Form" of the Multiform, and thus he will pay for the 350 pt Hulk form. A Dispel or Suppress against Multiform (a la Dr. Strange, mystic conjunction) will turn the Hulk into Banner again. Colossus also fits here, provided one buys the relevant skills on BOTH forms. (Both forms have X-Men combat training and common skills and knowledges) Shape Shift would be more for Mystique, whose powers don't change/flux with her switches. Shapeshift would be appropriate for J'onn J'onzz (Martain Manhunter) also, as his powers and abilities do not change when he is human. Shapeshift is also relevant for Nigtcrawler in his "Image Inducer" days, a slicker model than Images power itself. Megan of the old Xcaliber comics would be a ShapeShift also, but has a touch of VPP to mimic the powers of the form adopted. To sum up:: OHID for wimpy mortals who exhibit powerful manifestations abilities and keep the same skills and knowledge base. Multiform for those characters that exhibit a radical shift in skill, knowledge, and/or personality. Shape Shift for mortals and immortals who can pass for something else, but essentially retain all their basic abilities in either form. Due to personality shift, the human half of your brick should be built as you picture him, and should pay the points for the Multiform for the demon. The human is the "True Form" for game purposes, and the demon is the 350 pt character (keep in mind, the human will be coughing up 50-100 points for the Multiform). I would seriously consider the "personality loss" limitation on the Multiform along with the time delay. Accidental Change to cover the "survival shift" and possibly even one of the "reversion" limitations...causing the demon to flee mortality under certian circumstances (presence of Power Puff girl sappiness). If the GM decides the forms are too different to share a subconscious, then you can alway buy a 'vague' Transdimensional Mind Link to the other form...after all, it must be somewhere in creation...

I submit he is still entitled to the 1/4 limitation... He must have the Desol active, and must be desolid to utilize the attack. The ARW is irrelevant in this case. If he had OHID would you let him have the 1/4 limit on those points? After all, the ARW is always relevant to the power in that case also... Consider this construct:: 2d6 RKA, AP (only affects resistant defenses) Is the character entitled to the limitation on his attack? After all, the Armor Piercing is irrelevant if the target doesn't have resistant defenses. Your reasoning implies that the Armor Piercing will be paid for at full price, since it will always be relevant to the attack. If his Desol is drained/suppressed, that advantage is locked out just like the rest of the attack power. How is that not a limitation? I can think of two immediate scenarios that would make it plausible that his powers are locked out and he is in a Desol state. After all, the power is linked to HIS desolid. If he is stunned by an application of "common special effect", he has to go Desolid again before using huis EB...also a limitation. I'd allow it. It's no more unreasonable than IIF or OHID. I'm a gamemaster...if he's not using an EC he is completely allowed the lousy 7 points on concept alone. If it IS an EC, then the drain limits are less intimidating and he will suffer power problems in the future.

FlameJet:: "Well, fancy meeting you here Martin, and to think Mr. Salt said you'd never amount to anything." At which point our favorite playboy of the press would choke the guard unconscious (he's not too strong). Jet would leave a small roll of hundreds on the floor like it was dropped during the struggle. Just to add to the story. (he's not too bright either). AS soon as his Plasma effects came back to power, he'd start rocketing through the base to rescue his friends, causing as much collateral damage as he could (melting walls, labs, power conduits....) Lightnin':: "Good god !! What on earth has kept you so young? And so far down on your luck that VIPER has you? Jesus! Let's make a break for it and discuss history and old times...I have very few friends left from the old days. I can set you up with a safe identity somewhere in Australia. Let's get my acquauntances and get moving. No time to wait for superspeed...it'll come back." (Lightning and his pals were captured by a maniac when he was a young lawbreaking mutant. The fellow shot them all full of an experimental supersoldier serum. Lightning lived and his powers changed and went into an overdrive. He's been around for 50 years, and should last at least 200 more, longer if he can ever slow down his metabolic rate. His wife died a lingering 6 month death, his best friend...well...exploded.)

Hmmm. FlameJet:: Jumping to the ground with his plasma field flaring out like rocket exhaust below his feet. "Hey...great moves! You want a job in security or construction?? And you know you can't go wandering the streets with a stolen gun. What if the cops traced it to a murder or something? Hey, I'll give you $300 in cash here and now, as part of the PD's unofficial buyback program for firearms." If he gives the gun to him, Jet slags the barrel with his plasma aura and welds it to the mugger with whatever's handy. Flying off, he says "See the guys at Alamo Construction about a job if you need one!" If the gun isn't given to him, Jet would slag the street with a low level plasma beam and call the cops on his cell. Lightnin':: Finish the job on the mugger properly. Take his wallet and keys and leave him in a dumpster in the alley. Ytailing the guy with superspeed should prove more borign than difficult. If oppurtunity presented itself, he'd swipe the gun at superspeed, to have it processed for prints, prior shootings and such. If not, he'd tail him home, and get REAL interested after the observation... Lightnin' sets up his safehouses as isolated dumps which he only pays cash for...because he wants to be untraceable and mobile. Very interesting, deserving of observation. The next time the fellow goes out, Lightnin' would break in (Security Systems/Lockpicking) and search/burgle the place.

I definitely wouldn't allow the Persistant/Inherent combination on the Desol. A 1/4 Advantage for the Desol is no more munchkining than purchasing all the powers IIF. Of course, I believe that by it's very nature, a Drian or Suppress against Desol should affect Desol characters. Other GM's will disagree. OHID for all powers except Desol is acceptable in my gmae universe. After all, he must still be affected by a reasonably common group of effects even while Desolid. The munchkinoid would be buying defenses against THOSE effects specifiically in order to REALLY maximize cost effectiveness. All I can say is let him have it, and keep in mind that the Desol shuts off when he's stunned. Just make sure it's an NND atack that it clumps into his "affected by" special effects... Additionally, if the powers are only usable while Desolid, he has effectively removed his ability to use them if he IS solid. Fair trade for a 1/4 limit.

Part of the Hulk's package is that "over the top" STR boost he can generate. Your absorbtion is a good model for the gradual "anger makes me stronger model", as he gets batted around hurt and frustrated, he gets stronger. An extended push is a fun idea also... (+20 STR, no figured characteristics, x5 END cost) That power costs about 6 points, and you get to push 20 STR for 10 END. And by push rules...you can still push another 10 STR for 10 END. Great power in emergencies. Especially since you can start burning STUN pips...

As a question for the model enforcers... Have you ever SHOT something with a broadhead hunting arrow? From experience with a friend of the family, I remember him bringing his compund bow to the firing range when I was a kid. We didn't shoot at paper targets...we shot cans and pillows and sand and lumber and sometimes fruits and melons. (Now that I think back on this, he should've done demos at NRA classes with guns and bows...it would certainly give images to remember). Back on the subject...I distinctly remember the arrows being more, um, visually deadly than the bullets from our .22's. The .44 was very close to the arrows. I also remember the arrows generating more hard thrust on what they hit. That would imply real world increase in the DC's. Previous research on spreadsheets has shown that the -1d6 KB from Killing Attacks is only to compensate for the BODY increase from Normal Attacks...so a couple extra DC's is fine with me.

I dug out my book and looked...I'm pretty sure N-Ray sees through obstacles with a PER penalty...not "clear as day" just a 2 cent contribution to the thoughts. In gameplay I've enforced it that way...probably caused by watching Smallville Descriptions given to Cory... "Hey, I have X-Ray vision! Can I see bad guys in the basement of that building?" "You're looking through a few feet of concrete and steel, some air, some office spaces, conduits, ducting, but yeah, you can make out some people shapes moving around carrying dense rifle shaped objects with shielded clips or powerpacks" And "I look in the ocean to find the tracks or search for the submarine" "You can see fairly clearly up to the point that the reef stops and drops straight down. Deeper than that is more difficult. There's a lack of light, and a lack of difference in the water. It's like looking through goggles smeared with KY jelly. you can't actually see through the coral itself" She spent an hour investigating that coral in game time. She had no idea it was radioactive, but was really surprised she couldn't break it with 60 STR, or cut it with a plasma torch.

By the way...the above construct can easily include a Side Effect limitation for "exposure to alien minds" or "Body Drain" or "suffers double effect from mental attacks while engaged"

You might be looking at it wrong... For better CONTACT with another mind... (ie, location, range, attack with mental powers) +5d6 Mind Scan, Usable by Others, only usable on beings with Mind Scan abilities, OAF, Immobile. For increased ability to FIND someone +10 ECV, Usable by Others, only usable on beings with Mind Scan abilities, only for Mind Scan rolls, OAF, Immobile. For increased targets Hmmm...I'd have to think on that...which is more representative of the abilities? A Mind Scan with multiple target locking and using abilities on eveyone? Or an Area Effect Mental Attack that requires a Mind Scan roll and doesn't effect anyone of les than an EGO+10 roll?

Oh, I LIKE the NND analogy !! Let's see, EB, NND, Does Body, No Range, Defense is "don't touch me" Hmmm. Construct wise, yeah, gut instinct says it is equal to an NND, judging by the supremely common defense. For 1/4 extra it becomes, "avoid you in HtH combat" Perhaps that is underpriced? I don't know. I payed for the Hand-to-Hand modifier, and when I swept a single target, the GM ruled I could only use my damage shield once. Said Steve's rule on it was wrong and made the power abusive. I think it was a 1 1/2d6 STUN Drain...with a 10 STR. in a supers 60 AP game... So there is descrepancy on the value of the HtH modifier. Perhaps the HtH mod should be +1/2, and the flat Damage Shield needs to be reduced to +1. I am playtesting the +1 mod on the Damage Shield in a current campaign. It doesn't seem unbalancing yet, but I have yet to see the "sweep a single target" manuever in effect. The player's powers are relatively new. I CAN state, that he will crank out more raw damage with an equivalent AP STR boost than the use of his Plasma Shroud...but the Damage Shield is killing dice, and will have other uses.

Good deal... Come back if you want more input...

And in that vein... Have the PC's built using the AI rules. Allow the AI's to purchase Desol as standard, and define the effects for them...let them apply whatever additional limits they think appropriate. (Bob takes extra time, cause he's slow. Dierdre can't use the power unless there is a full moon) The Desol is the "possession power" of the campaign. It doesn't exist for characters beyond that description. When they are solid, they must have a body to manifest in. When they are desolid, they are disembodied whatchamacallits. Handwave the "sieze control" aspect of possession. Allow "posessed" to expel them with an appropriate Ego roll as a -0 limitation. Have them purchase their standard body (or bodies!) as followers. That would even hold for the physical improvement spending. You can just charge them for an additional follower and have them build the new one. If they ever get back to the old one, then they can reposess it at their standard... This has some interesting story potential

"The nucleus of the sun where atomic structure begins to break down" Sounds like a transform or X-Dim movement doesn't it? Perhaps the nucleus of the sun needs a transform that slowly vaporizes the character...how many supers show up at the sun with over 20 Power Defense? Or, perhaps a Drain against energy defense listedout as "atomic destabilization" or "bond saturation" ... now vehicles and objects are far more vulnerable than the heroes... Extra Dim movement and Summon are rapidly becoming the most often used powers in the event of a modelling breakdown...I am leading the one man campaign to avoid their use in those cirmumstances.

So that's the heat damage....the pressure I am completely lost on.

There is a comparitive in FREd that destructs your numbers. Check out the environmental damage section A Blast Furnace is 6d6 Energy (Heat) Killing plus 12d6 Physical (if in furnace) The quasi fictional Plasma Torch is a 4d6 KA, AP (Heat) Rocket Exhaust (I imagine mainline Shuttle engines, Saturn 5 Boosters and the like) Lists out as follows:: 6d6 - 8D6 Energy (Heat) Killing PLUS 18d6 Normal Physical That in itself seems more powerful than what you have listed for the Sun. Heat and pressure wise, this may be the closest HERO analogy to the Sun (I don't have Star Hero) I assume the seperation is for the pressure, going by the qualification of "in the furnace" and that they are normal Physical dice. Oddly enough, the answers from ask.com show rocket exhaust to be near the temperature of the surface of the sun!! 6,000°C is the solar surface temperature, and rocket exhaust is listed out at 6,000°K. Kelvin to Celsius conversion is a 273° difference I believe. So, we need to start the sun's surface temperature with the rocket exhaust, since it is a superheated plasma modelling the sun's temperature. That's my 5 cents

Heh... Make him buy the Healing power with resurrection for the mainline character so he hasw to actually go resurrect5 his destroyed duplicates. Then he can choose between lost points and danger...

Hmmm......perhaps... Summon Alternate Self Except that violates the "2 models" rule

And include the "only when duplicated" limitation? I would let him buy regeneration with extra time (say, 1 BODY per hour) so it takes a day to restore the duplicate. I would also add a focus or circumstance limitation to it so he is required to recover the corpse and "recombine" it (though technically there is no recombination). He could also buy the regeneration as limited ot "resurrection only" As a matter of fact, Extra Limbs and Resurrection are HEALING adders. He himself could buy "Healing, 8d6, Extra Time - 1 Day, only usable on duplicates, resurrection" Special Effect :: Recombining with the Duplicate.

Heh....give the Hydra a nine charge summon. 1) When they chop off one of the heads it clamps onto the weapon that chopped it off. Build it as an extra monster. A large head could be a triggered Entangle... 2) 1-Hex Area Effect Drain (6d6 versus BODY, does not affect living organics (-1/2), Damage Shield, only activates when Hydra is struck a death blow (-2). "Caustic Blood Spray" This one eats foci, costumes, the ground beneath their feet. You could add an Entangle if it dissolves the ground. 3) 15d6 EB, 2xKB (or Stun Only, Does Knockback if preferred). Damage Shield, death blow "Battery Discharge" 4) Summon two weaker heads...cannot be used unless a head has been destroyed. More ideas will post as they come to me...

1) Only if Not moving is a -1 limitation on Invisibility. Chameleon is -1/2. Bright Fringe is -1/4. SO.... a) buy a multipower with two invisibility slots...one works if not moving...one for when moving. Complicated. Buy the Invisibility power as it would be at max when immobile. Add a Side Effect limitation that summarily dictates the reduced invisibility effect (this could range from -1/4 to -1 depending on how restrictive it is). 2) Markdoc's suggestions are streamlined and decent. CorpCommander is more realistic and complicated. Hmmm. I would do his example like this:: ( xd6 RKA, AP, Explosion, Explosion Area is STUN only (-0) ) - but I prefer to avoid the compound effects on normal weapons when possible. 3) No STAR HERO here...sorry. It's on my wish list. It sounds reasonable to me though, as a science fiction reader. 12 PD Armor would stop a light Bazooka round (4d6 RKA) from doing BODY on an average roll...that should be fairly heavy. The Battle Armor aounds like the stuff a Space Marine might wear...15 STR is a 200 kg lift...it is not unreasonable to assume that the heavily armored Space Marines would be wearing armor requiring an 18-20 STR to move in.

Hey....don't get me wrong...I LIKE the STUN lotto... Though usage varies...which is more valuable? (90) (4d6 RKA) (+2x to STUN Multiple) (90) (4d6 RKA) (AP) (90) (12d6 EB) (AP) Where's Spreadsheet guy? The other advantage that EB's USED to have was the old spreading rules of +1 per die , but thoswe are gone...I know the spread rules say DC now.

I might write the limitation like that in a SuperHero game (-1/2 to -1) cannot use END to fuel power. It does add to the unpredictability of the damage... In a Heroic level game I might consider it as a Physical Limitation: Cannot use END for Blood Spells (All the Time, Slightly to Greatly))