Orion

Re: overmentalizing My god, the player is actually using the powers like they should be used. Can't have that - let's figure out how to neutralize him immediately! And while we're at it, let's make sure the energy projectors can't use their blasts any more. No different from firing guns in public, and that's illegal, so they can't do it either. We'll tell the martial artists and bricks that hitting people is assault, so that takes care of them. Pretty soon we'll have that Housewives and Officeworker campaign I've always wanted. Seriously though, why penalize the player for using the power correctly? If they can read minds, I would fully expect them to read the minds of the bad guys. So it can't be used in court - no matter - it can be used to stop more of the bad guy's actions, and that's the important point. If you play it as illegal or immoral (and most of us do), then either the player wants the character to act like that, or the power should not have been allowed in the first place. If the power is going to be limited because of genre conventions, that needs to be stated up front. No different really than stating no casual killers at the start of a campaign. If I was the player mentioned by the OP, I would either request a completely new character, or leave the campaign, if a change of this magnitude was required in the character. In my campaign, I just state that psionics are rare, of very low power, mostly pacifists, and will not be a concern in the campaign for this very reason. I'm even happy to state psionics do not exist for the campaign world. Telepathy and mind control can screw up a well-planned scenario in no time, and I think it's generally not worth dealing with it as a GM. If the players really want psionics, then that will be a major part of the campaign, and at some point the villains will get the drop on them and force them to do various and sundry illegal and/or humiliating things in public.

Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! My campaign is probably a lot closer to dark Champions than to standard Champions. The first paranormal appeared just 10 years ago, and at this time there only about 150 worldwide, although most are in the USA. Tech levels are a lot closer to real life, and comic book tech and mad science are greatly reduced. This is rapidly changing, but duplicator guns, de-evolution rays, and mutant genes controlling weather will never happen. Plenty of people with super powers, but it's magic, not science or genetics, that cause it. I'm not interested in duplicating a certain genre of comic books; playing in a world with super powers is the idea.

Re: More Complications, Please Oh, I totally agree, and that's the crux of the problem. In my experience, it's rare to find players or GMs that see it this way. Every Hero campaign I've ever been in had house rules, but the rules had to be followed. I'm just open about the possibility that as a GM, I may feel it best to toss a rule out for the benefit of the storyline. I'll also have the villains act like tactical idiots if they are winning too easily, or forget to use a few powers/skills/rules that could help them out. If a player said they were really tired of a DNCP and wanted a change, I wouldn't require them to spend exp to do so. I'd ask if they had a preferred method of getting rid of the DNCP, and work it into the storyline, or if they just wanted me to ignore it in the future. I have never ascribed to the idea that complications were there because the player wanted to focus on them - I see them as things that exist, and may need to be focused upon. If the character has a wife and kids, list them as a DNCP so I as a GM know they exist. If you want them involved in the story, let me know, if not, also let me know. Character concept comes first. Then build a character resembling that concept. You don't get more powers and skills because you take more complications - you take whatever is needed to completely define the character concept. Points have no part in this - it's just a guideline. Some characters have lots of complications, others have very few, and neither is necessarily better or more fun to play.

Re: The Morality of Sending In The Clones! I've been working cloning and genetic engineering into my world recently - it's the primary shtick of my versions of Malachite and Dr Destroyer. DD started it, a few scientists working for him have chosen to go freelance with the knowledge, and Malachite was his finest work and greatest failure. DD has a small clone army, and a cadre of engineered people (think Khan from Star Trek). Cloning and genetic engineering is illegal everywhere, but more for religious reasons than any need. If you can't play with stem cells, you certainly can't make new people, after all. But, very few know they exist. Of those that do, some think them to be abominations that should be destroyed, as they are thought to have no soul. Most consider them as merely another person with a different manner of birth. No matter if they were brainwashed as a child into a merciless killer - lots of people have bad childhoods. As long as you are a good person, your origin doesn't matter to most. The person doing the work is always punished; the clone or engineered person is never punished for being that, only what they do. It is key for my world that there is no way to tell they are a clone or engineered person. Your clones may be identity theft, but mine are usually not. It's considered an honor to have a clone made - "I'm so valuable that they want more just like me!" Outside of DD, the most common use of a clone is to create an heir, organ donor, or new body for a brain transplant (success not guaranteed!). In all cases, the donor wanted it to happen. Note that doesn't always mean the clone is happy about the situation. What happens when a clone is freed from the influence of its creator? If it is mindless, and many are, it is just a lump of tissue, and most governments would quietly pull the life support plug. Those with a mind are more problematic. Many governments just ignore them after the battle. If they want help, they can apply to be a citizen, get a job, etc. Appropriate organizations would help them, just as they do the homeless, immigrants, mentally unstable. Some have realized they were only created as spare parts, and this may mentally scar them for the rest of their life. And it just gets more fun if personalities and memories are copied into the clone. Who is the original, and if the original was a criminal, how do you know the right one is being punished for that old crime?

Re: "Normals" gaining superpowers: how would they change in terms of mentality? If I could have several of these skills as a package, rather than just a single one, I know exactly what I'd want. Give me time travel, regeneration, and instant learning of skills. I'd then start traveling through time. The skill learning would quickly teach me to use weapons and all the other things I'd need to survive in the past. If it didn't also give me language skills, then I'd want telepathy for that. I have no interest in changing the world, I just want to observe it. I want to know how people really lived in the year 2000BC, catch a chariot race in the Circus Maximus, and see what the middle ages were really like. I'd go back and figure out how all the major religions really came about. I'd see passenger pigeons and the dodo before they died out. I'd try to see how many items I could save from the fire of the Library of Alexandria. I'd write books/articles/rpg supplements that was based on this knowledge, and have this uncanny ability to pick out spots for new archeological excavations.

Re: "Normals" gaining superpowers: how would they change in terms of mentality? Very interesting thread - I regret that I have just now found it. 17. I would try not to abuse this, but I know it would happen. If I happened to come across a serious criminal, it would be very difficult to not make them go directly to the police and admit all their crimes. It would be very good for helping people overcome their addictions and problems, but I don't have the right mindset to pretend to be a counselor or psychologist, and would not want to ever admit I have the power. Once people know you can control their mind, they'll never trust you again, as they can't be sure. If this also allowed the control of animal minds, I'd be set. Making my livestock tame down and my dogs stop barking would be great. Getting birds to land on my finger, deer to come near, etc., would be wonderful. 18. This seems to be a lot like invisibility to me. Use shrinking to go places you shouldn't. Could be helpful in search and rescue situations, and gaining instant public notice. Of no interest to me personally. 19. The drought here in Texas would be over in a heartbeat. I'd make sure my place always got enough rain, but would actually not do much. The cycles of nature are important, and many species need the floods, droughts, and other extremes that cause problems for humans. I'd probably want to limit the extremes, but not by much. I think most people would want to try and make the weather "perfect" all the time, and it woudl eventaully cause much trouble. 20. Might be interesting. It would be like to visit Barsoom and see a Hyborian dancing girl. Visiting my various campaign worlds would be even more fun. But, I'd only want this if I also got some sort of instant translator ability, resistance to diseases, and basic skills for that world. So I'm chatting up that dancing girl, and find out she belongs to the guard captain, who is *not* pleased with me. Not so good. 21. More limiting than 17. No longer can get instant dates, but it still allows much abuse for criminal purposes, and I think many people would do just this. Would be interesting to actually know what a female organism feels like. Could be good for taking out criminals and preventing suicides. I would use this far, far less that 17 - I like my body, and have little interest in wearing another. 22. Neat. So now I know karate....and yet I have no reason to ever use it. This would describe 99% of the possible skills to me. There is very little that I'd be really interested in learning that I don't have some skill at already, so I guess I'd use it to make some of my skills better. I'm a data analyst and biologist by trade, but I could be better at each. I would go hang out with some expert statisticians and some of the old field biologists, and bring myself up to their level. Definitely improve my marksmanship and horseback riding skills. Watch home improvement and DIY shows to learn all the right ways to do it, as opposed to the way I often fix things. In the long run, it's the knowledge I need, not skill.

Re: More Complications, Please

Re: More Complications, Please

Re: More Complications, Please Now, it's how the rules operate, but I firmly believe that complications earned in play should affect your points. I just don't see how my choosing a hunted and the GM choosing a hunted for me should be treated differently. Both complicate life for the character, and I think both should therefore give points. Some would say I am getting points for it - exp - but I disagree. A session is finished, and all get 3 exp for rescuing the hostages. For the other characters, that's it. But for me, I also get a hunted, because I defeated the villain in personal combat. If I am getting exp for the hunted, then I am getting nothing for the session of roleplaying. Storywise, the hunted makes complete sense, and as a player I would expect to be given complications of various types as the campaign progresses.

Re: More Complications, Please

Re: What Are You Listening To Right Now? Jimmy Buffett - Radio Margaritaville. Turn it on when I start my computer in the morning, and stream it in all day long. Makes the day just a little more tolerable.

Re: The Beautiful People I like the idea, but with a twist. In my campaign, Malachite wants to raise everyone to the next evolutionary level. Current humanity is useful as lab rats and genetic source material, nothing more. He decides that to more quickly get the job done, he needs to wipe out much of the population so the next group can take over. The virus/nanotech/recombinant genetic stuff/mad science handwave then changes people as you say - better health, appearance, etc. Aging is stopped, not reversed, so doing it sooner is better. The catch is that later on everyone finds out they are now permanently sterile. Much of the population wouldn't care, and might even see it as a benefit, since they didn't want more kids anyway. There will still be plenty of people around for the next 70 years to serve as lab rats, genetic source material, and caregivers to the next step in humanity, so Malachite thinks its a win.

Re: Steampunk - Source Material http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/04/steampunk-iron-man http://www.wired.com/underwire/2010/08/star-wars-nazis/ Steampunk Iron Man and Nazi models by Jonathan Kuriscak. He says Thor is next up on his list.

Re: Who's Hunting You? And Why? St George - hunted by Black Paladin. Told the GM I needed a hunted of his choice. The BP would turn up at at his house in the middle of the night, let himself in, and then want to have a 2 hour philosophical discuss in the living while the DNPC were sleeping in the bedrooms. Could never attack him, and had to go through with the crazy visits or else he'd attack. If I'd go along with it, he'd leave peacefully. Never was able to capture him in combat that I remember. As a combat oriented player, it drove me nuts to not be able to do anything. As a budding evil GM, I applauded the GM's inventiveness. Orion - hunted by Genocide, but also hunts them. Started off as a simple energy projector ala Captain Atom, but saw combat like a soldier would, and shot to kill. Through years of playing, he became the vigilante that all others were judged against. Mostly hunted down and killed Genocide members, because they caused the accident that created his powers, then ruined his reputation, and eventually kidnapped and killed his family when he went after them. He would not hesitate to administer the death penalty, and became so much of a loner/killer/legend that he could no longer be used with any normal group and was retired from play. Now as an NPC in my campaign, he is turning from a killing machine into an introspective agent of justice that seldoms uses his powers, and is mentoring a young mutant. Genocide no longer hunts him out of self-preservation. Silhouette - hunted by the Ultimates. They do something, and she's the one that shows up and defeats them. Every time. But they are too stupid to try anything but coming back for revenge. Played more like a bunch of lame Spider-Man villains than serious opponents.

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition? Ummm....they haven't broken the old (ancient) record in my setting yet.....or maybe strength is defined another way (isn't military lift used for some system?)....pushing - yeah that's a good! Let's go with that one! In truth, I had no idea what the record was. It's stuff like this that makes me think a chart telling exactly what various characteristics mean is really, really needed. We can look it up for strength, but dex, con, int, etc isn't so clear. Better examples are needed, especially for those like myself that play closer to Dark Champions than standard Champions.

Re: Chemical enhancements with an addiction probability I'd handle it as a Dependancy 3-, with 1 added to the roll for each use in a 24-hour period after the first. Once the dependency hit, he'd have to use character points to get rid of it.

Re: Superhuman women less attractive in 6th Edition? In my setting, 20 is a hard cap on human characteristic maximum. Anything over 20 automatically puts you into the paranormal category, and you have to explain in the background writeup how it was gotten. SPD max is 4, and many paranormals have just a 3. COM 20 is a beauty queen that virtually everyone agrees is amazing. Less than this and you can still be amazing to some people (but the proportion that think so falls) or you can be considered nice to everyone. IQ=INTx10 as a rule of thumb. But, INT isn't just intelligence, it is also ability to use it fast, and in new ways. My Reed Richards would likely have INT in the 25-30 category. The closest I have to Tony Stark probably has an INT of 18, and much of that is due to his ability to come up with new ideas, not raw brain power. I can handle any pre-determined level as a hard normal maximum, but I really want all the prime characteristics to have the same maximum. If no human in real life can lift more than what a STR 20 allows, then all maxima should be 20. If INT is going to be defined as IQx5, and therefore 40 is possible, then the strength chart should be reworked so that 40 strength is pretty close to the world weightlifting record. And I fully admit, I can't think of a single good reason why the maxima should all have the same value, other than it just feels right to me.

Re: Free no character point equipment simulating not very powerful powers I've been thinking of the issue over the weekend. The more I think about it, the better I like the idea of a VPP for the character. I'd be just as likely to tell the player to give me a list of items and we're done, as to give him 15 points and tell him to build a VPP. It seems the VPP is the easy way to model it in game terms. But, then I start thinking about the bad guys. They can't affect it with a drain or some other modification. They can affect the teleport, and they can steal the items, but they can't affect the VPP directly. The storyteller in me has no problems with this, but the GM who has dealt with problem players knows a good rule definition is needed. In my games, the bricks and energy projectors are just as likely to carry guns and buy bulletproof vests as the gadget guy. What they are capable of matters, not how they got it. Point cost really is immaterial to me, and only useful for making rule determinations in battle (how much is drained, etc). The key is not to tell players to show up with 300 points, but to give them upper limits on offensive, defense, and skills. If this is done, it really doesn't matter if they are 275 points and used the Visa card for 25 points of equipment, or have all 300 inherently.

Re: Strange events...what do YOU (not your character) do? First rule of business is to keep my mouth shut and head down. I do not want to get mixed up with all the religious crazies proclaiming the end of the world, nor do I want to get conscripted by some government group. I live on a farm in the countryside, so testing wouldn't be a problem. Tell the wife and hope she has them too - that perfect health thing is going to be great, but if we don't both have it, life will start sucking fast. I can't see me ever being a superhero (loose cannon, dark avenger, and deadly vigilante are all possible though), so I would never put on a costume. Given the powers stated, I'd probably not ever do much with them - they just aren't useful. Change the powers I'd get, and my answer could change quite a bit. Fast forward a bit. Depending on the flight ability and power blast generation special effect, I might try to find a job utilizing those powers, but I just can't see our world letting people with powers just walk around unless >10% of the population are affected. If all is going well in the world, I might be willing to let scientists I'd trust test me as part of studies, but I'd never register with the government. I'd trust them with the issue of powers even less than I trust them with the issue of gun ownership.

Re: Free no character point equipment simulating not very powerful powers If a player asked that of me, it would automatically be allowed. I would never even have to think about it. In fact, as a novel use of his power, I might even give bonus exp for it. I'd put limitations on how fast he could find things, which would be based on how many items he'd want to stash, and I like the idea given above of someone finding and taking the stuff. Every single item would have to be listed and accounted for, but I'd certainly allow it. I can't see how it would affect a campaign in any negative way. Sure, the rulebook says all powers must be bought in a superhero campaign. You can always follow the rulebook and allow no house rules or changes of any type. But the dark champions rules says that you don't have to pay for anything that you can buy. What's the difference? If it doesn't upset one type of campaign, why is it assumed to do so in another? I can just imagine telling a player on Monday night he has to pay points for the flashlight, but when he wants to do the same on Thursday's dark champion's game, he gets it free. And if it's the same world and same GM, it'll be even worse. What if he promises to kill the next three villains he faces and kinda sorta turn the campaign dark? That close enough? You'll allow a cell phone to make calls. What if he wants to use it to look up known info on every single villain he encounters? If there are supers, there's going to be websites and Wikipedia pages devoted to them. Instant KS: villains at 14-. How about using the phone as a flashlight - there's an app for that! GPS and mapping capability? Camera to document the crime scene? Besides the fact that a cell phone is common today, why allow it and not other items? What about the belt to hold up his jeans? Can it be used as a tourniquet, poor quaility whip (belt buckles can hurt!), and restraining device? A winter parka can be 1PD armor and protection against cold based powers. You get the idea. If it is the number of items, give him a limit. If you go strictly by the rules, lay down the law. But if the story is more important - you are playing the genre, not the rules - then not allowing it becomes much harder to justify. Some people base the campaign around the special affects of powers, and modify the rules to fit them. Others base it on the rules, and only allow special affects that fit them. Sounds to me like the two of you are expecting something different, and need to discuss it at length. Of course, the player could also be a munchkin, or just trying to min/max some advantages. In this case, slap him down with everything at your disposal!

Re: What sort of technology do you use in yiour games? Technology I have used: 1. Fridge - keeps the beer and Dr Pepper cold. 2. Telephone on the wall - vital for getting attention of pizza delivery guy. 3. Desktop pc with OpenOffice. Keep all character and villain sheets, campaign writeup, house rules. Bring printouts as needed to session. 4. Wooden table only used when large fight scene requires miniatures to keep it all straight. Otherwise, everyone sits in chairs or on sofa and the action is described. 5. Big hex map (table sized) and markers to roughly draw maps under miniatures. Vinyl map preferred, but laminated paper okay. Low tech can be better - keeps the attention on the storyline, and not the gizmos.

Re: Paranormal threat levels Hugh - good point re: God-like. I think I'll change it to cosmic right away. megaplayboy - I think I do need more granularity. My world will never have a level 9 or 10 paranormal in it - they just don't exist. Even something that could destroy a city is extremely rare, and would do so with an earthquake or hurricane. I was thinking that anything bigger than this would just get lumped into one large category, since it's never been seen. That said, it would be just like a anal-retentive UNTIL bureaucrat to create an index that covers everything in detail, just in case.

Re: Champions Universe: what to keep in my campaign? Powers first appeared in my campaign just 10 years ago, so I'm facing some of the same issues as you. I did keep the world effectively the same as ours until this point, not that it would really matter much at all for my campaign. Since yours have just started showing up, I'd have even fewer changes from our world. Make much of the world exactly the same. 9/11/01 happened, but Detroit is untouched. Anything truely out of the ordinary would have happened in the fictional campaign city. My UNTIL is a paper tiger. Some bureaucrats, a few companies of standard issue infantry, and a half dozen Turtle suit clones at best. The idea was a paranormal response unit, and eventually paranormals, but no one wants the UN to have standing troops. US and Russia in particular prevent them from becoming anything effective. So, they are now changing into an information and advice source. They have the best database on paranormals, and will help anyone that asks, but can't do much more than correlate news reports and data sent to them by Interpol. Viper formed after 9/11/01, when certain business types realized they could use terrorism to influence business and government. They started off hoping to change our government to something much closer to fascism, but without any race connotations, and have large businesses rule from behind the scenes. With changes in leadership, the plan now is to use paranormal terrorism to break down society, collapse the US government, and eventually rule the pieces as warlords. Card Shark is nothing more than the Dallas Viper cell gone independent. PRIMUS is just getting going, and has a strong military mindset, as most active agents are former military. The control all investigations of paranormal activity, and tend to run roughshod over local law enforcement. They are at war with the paranormals, see them as terrorists, and unofficially encourage killing supervillains. There's no Stronghold yet (maybe in a couple years the tech base will be there), so keeping them in prison is problematic at best. No superhero teams exist, because there just aren't enough of them around yet. This has left an opening for paranormal response units to be created. Some are official, some are mercenary. Most are only slightly better than SWAT units, but a few have advanced equipment, some of which they may have taken from villains. A few are a joke and cause more trouble than they solve. You've got paranormals running around - what about magic, aliens, psionics, and creatures from other dimensions. Do they exist? If not, that tosses several organizations and classic villains right out the door. I have all, but they have little resemblance to the Champions version of them.

Re: Paranormal threat levels I couldn't find anything I liked online, so ended up creating my own power level table. I wanted it to cover all possible power levels, and to be rules agnostic. As I plan for it to be used in multiple possible campaigns, it could not be pegged to the characters power levels. The fiction is that UNTIL did this as part of their known powers database. Assumptions are: 1. One-time use of equipment does not count, nor does an ability or power that is rarely seen at levels well above that normally used. 2. Only one ability or power is needed to qualify for the power level – having multiple listed abilities raises the level. 3. Those with high levels of training in combat or the use of their powers are typically rated a level higher. 4. Those with power suits or inherent powers are rated one or two levels higher than their damage level would normally deserve due to the difficulty in neutralizing or removing those powers. 5. Flight, teleportation, and super speed give an extra bump to power level. Here it is for anyone interested. Comments are welcome. 0 Normal Average person. No weapons, specialized abilities, or powers. No combat training. 1 Competent Standard personal weapons such as pistols, shotguns, and rifles and non-lethal weapons such as tasers and pepper spray. Some martial arts or combat training. Armor often not worn. Most law enforcement are at this level. 2 Trained Normal Highly trained, but unpowered, martial artists. Automatic weapons and light armor such as kevlar vests common. Most SWAT teams and basic military units at this level. 3 Low paranormal Grenades, land mines, and other explosive devices. Have low psionic ability, light power blasts, or can lift 1 ton. Can disable a car, but have considerable difficulty with armored vehicles and small buildings. 4 Small rockets and such as early RPG and LAW. Armor or inherent ability gives immunity to standard personal weapons, can lift 10 tons, or emit blasts which destroy armored vehicles and small buildings with time. 5 Med paranormal Medium anti-tank rockets, and man-portable anti-aircraft rockets. Armor or inherent ability makes them immune to heavy personal weapons. Can lift 25 tons. Emits blasts that quickly destroy armored vehicles and small buildings; can destroy tanks and hardened buildings in time. 6 Modern anti-tank rockets, light artillery, and light tank main weapons. Can lift 50 tons or destroy tanks and hardened buildings. 7 High paranormal Can lift 75 tons. Given time, could sink large ships and destroy small cities. 8 Can lift 100 tons. Can create tornadoes, earthquakes, or hurricanes. Can sink large ships, destroy cities. 9 Extreme Can destroy large portion of planet; extreme loss of life. 10 God-like Can alter reality

Re: New to running a Fantasy Hero game We typically only gave out exp after the story arc was finished, or at least there was significant downtime before the next action. Even doing it this way, 5 exp was big, and probably covered 3 sessions of play. I think the biggest difference in doing fantasy is the expectation in regards to allowable actions. In most fantasy campaigns I've seen, desecrating tombs, stealing, and murder are common events with little or no affect on the characters. Sure, you killed the merchant for his 10 gold, but it doesn't bother you, and the law never comes after you. Before you start the campaign, decide with the players what the tone is supposed to be. Robin Hood, swashbucklers, thieves guild, and Brother Cadfael are four very different types of campaigns, and each has its own ethical setting and expectations.