Lord Liaden

A character can buy Tunneling for 1" of movement through 1 DEF for every five character points; he can also increase the DEF he can tunnel through separately from the movement rate, at 3 Char. Pts. per point of DEF. I notice that the remaining 2 Char. Pts. out of the initial five would buy the equivalent of 1" of Running. Is there any reason why a character should not buy up his Tunneling movement rate separately from the DEF he can move through, at 1" per 2 Char. Pts.?

Re: 9th-Level Sorcerer and Wizard Spells Honking big Variable Power Pool?

Frankly, Arthur, I agree with you. I've never had a problem with the lethality level in HERO. True heroes are supposed to be able to survive extraordinary circumstances, so giving them (especially when they're PCs) every chance to survive works fine for me. And if someone can't get the help they need to keep from bleeding to death (common circumstance on a battlefield, for ex), they just take a little longer to end up just as dead. This was my friend's suggestion, not mine. For some gamers being able to kill instantly obviously is an issue. So, if we have ideas on how to do that, we can at least toss them out and see if they're picked up - help our colleagues get where they want to go, even if we wouldn't go there ourselves.

It's really an illustration of gaming quantum mechanics: every edition of Hero/Champions has built on what has gone before, and drawn upon the advances in rpg philosophy as a whole, as well as improved production values and increased experience and maturity by writers in the field. Believe me, 4th Ed. was a quantum leap beyond the Hero stuff that preceded it, and at the forefront of universal game systems for its day. Just as 5th Ed. is now. In another ten or twelve years? Who can imagine?

As one further suggestion, a friend of mine who also has a problem with lethality in HERO (not so much instant death, as the fact that a human in HERO can survive more damage than the average brick wall) was discussing a house rule he wants to try out: a character who takes BODY damage equal to or greater than his total starting BODY from a single attack has to make a CON roll (-1 for every 2 BODY more than his total) or die instantly. I think this rule has potential, in that attacks of 10 DC or more will usually be instantly fatal to normals (and to speed up combat, you can assume that most normals will fail their CON rolls), but survivability scales to heroes and superheroes, who generally have higher CON and BODY scores. This would be good for scenes of mass destruction and "slaughter of innocents", which have their places with some villains in some genres.

I've heard a lot of discussion about the "instant kill" option in some games. I'm most familiar with the ones in D&D, although I've seen smatterings of others. In each case that I can recall, the ability to kill instantly is either limited to affecting creatures of a certain "level" (i.e. more powerful creatures are not ever affected by the spell or other power), or the victim of the attack gets a "saving throw" to avoid damage. Note that that saving throw improves as the character gains experience and rises in level. Note also that the more powerful versions of "instant kill" attacks are usually only available to characters who have themselves gained enough experience to rise to the necessary level. In other words, the ability to instantly kill is scaled to the characters' power level. HERO doesn't use levels, so the scaling is done a different way: through increased Defenses, STUN and BODY, and Damage Classes. Instead of Saving Throws, HERO has OCV vs DCV rolls, great or poor Damage rolls, lucky or unlucky Hit Location rolls, etc. So sure, you can kill something instantly for 100 Active Points or less - a 6 1/2 D6 Killing Attack will kill an unprotected normal with one shot almost every time, and a really good roll will kill most super beings. But heroes are supposed to be tougher, more skillful, luckier than normals. You want to kill anything instantly regardless of power level? Build a large enough attack. If you tried to convert D&D to HERO, do you think you could make "Finger of Death" or "Power Word: Kill" spells on less than 100 AP? Those are among the most powerful effects in the game, available only to the mightiest (and most experienced) of characters. I'm not trying to sound sarcastic, Yamo; I just think that you're looking at two systems with two different ways of scaling damage, and trying to make one way function in a system that it wasn't designed for.

Oh! Well, in that case... What you should really consider looking at is the the 5E Champions genre book by Aaron Allston. It's all about using the system to create supers campaigns: which rules options you should or shouldn't use in what situations, how to tailor the Powers to create common super effects (with bunches of examples), the common character archetypes, conventions of the different "ages" of comic books (Golden, Silver, Bronze, Iron), guidelines for players and GMs, plus a bunch of sample characters and other neat stuff. The BBB will give you some of that, but not nearly as much, or as well organized. And there's just no comparison to the older editions of Champions.

I would consider ordering a character to use an attack on himself that he knows will hurt him to require at least a +30 level of effect, unless the character is masochistic. To order a character to use an attack which he knows has a chance of killing him would be de facto against a universal "Psychological Limitation" (instinct for self-preservation), so I would require another +10 on the role, unless the character is already suicidal.

My New York friends were wrong; pleasant things do come out of New Jersey.

Uncle Shecky raises some very good points. The Big Blue Book has some definite advantages over FREd for a newcomer: it combines extensive HERO System mechanics with lots of good supers GMing advice, sample character creation examples, combat runthrough, an introductory adventure, and quite a few pregenerated characters to use as heroes and villains. And the layout probably makes it easier for a newbie to reference things. The system part is less detailed in 4E than 5E, although correspondingly less clear. The fundamental changes from 4th Ed. to 5th are relatively few - most of the changes are clarifications and expanded options, so an upgrade from 4th to 5th would not be difficult. In fact one of our fellow board members, TheEmerged, has summarized the changes between editions (with some interesting commentary) on his website: http://theemerged.blogspot.com/HERO425.htm There are quite a few BBBs around via used game dealers and eBay, so finding one shouldn't be difficult. The ones on eBay generally go for around $20 these days, if cost is a factor. If possible, try looking for the Champions Deluxe edition (stock #451); it's hardcover, well put together, and has a very good index in the back which the earlier editions lacked. For editions earlier than 4th, IMHO they would be less useful to you. There are many significant differences in the system between 3rd and 4th Ed. that could trip you up later (although supplements and adventures written under those rules would not be too hard to convert). Some of the system elements are not as balanced as in 4E, and the range of options is much more limited. And the BBB just has too much useful stuff to pass up, whatever type of superhero game you run. So, if you're thinking of getting an earlier Champions, get 4E and upgrade to 5E as soon as you're ready. It'll be worth it.

It's worth clarifying that the victim of a Mental Power with IPE would still be aware that the Power had been used on him; he just wouldn't be able to tell where the attack came from or who used it. Causing the victim to be unaware of the attack requires a +20 on the effect die roll. The Ultimate Mentalist did offer one optional method for hiding a mental attack without using IPE; you can buy the Skill "Cloak". This is the mentalist's version of Stealth, reflecting a cautious use of the Power. Making a successful roll (based on EGO) will hide the use of a Mental Power from characters with Mental Awareness, although not from the victim of the attack. People with MA roll their Perception against the Cloak roll to detect the Power as a Skill vs. Skill roll, as with Stealth. Cloak suffers a -1 to the roll for every 10 Active Points of Mental Power used. (Ultimate Mentalist p. 12)

I'm glad you said that, SkyKnight. There can't be a more fine-tuned and fine-combed game engine out there than 5E HERO. Granted, just about everyone has ideas about how to make something work "better"; tinkering is in the nature of HERO gamers. And of course, FREd encourages us to change whatever we don't like for our personal games. But as the comments on this thread illustrate, no proposed changes have close to universal approval (with the probable exception of Damage Shield, and even then, the proposed fixes are as numerous as the people suggesting them). A change that one person hates may be loved by someone else. For my part, I've seen almost nothing in the new ruleset that's out-and-out broken - open to abuse if not closely monitored, but not broken. And I still don't grokk the new rules well enough to make definitive decisions about what I think should be changed. I want more playing time under my belt first. I do have faith that Steve Long didn't unleash any utterly ruinous rules on us.

This subject was actually discussed quite a bit on the "pre-Denial of Service Attack" boards. To some extent the issue is addressed in the HERO System Resource Kit by the Character Creation Booklet and the tables on the GM's Screen (which also appear on the players' side of the screen so they can refer to them). However, a lot of people expressed an interest in creating a "lite" version of the rules to help newbies break into the system, less intimidating than FREd. Apparently Steve Long initially had no interest in doing such a project, but by the end of the discussion was convinced of the desire for it and promised to get to it as soon as he had the time. (There's responsiveness to customers for ya!) IIRC, Steve's plan was for a stripped-down version of the rules: the main Powers and Modifiers without a lot of the descriptions and options; basic Combat Maneuvers without all the optional ones; and so forth. He suggested needing something in the 48-64 page range to do justice to the material, but was adamant about wanting it to be a free download from the website. Oh, and Steve himself suggested a name for it that the fans seemed to take to: since it's going to be a smaller, less-powerful version of the HERO System, he proposed calling it the HERO System Sidekick. Now all we need is for Steve to find the time to write it; to quote Hamlet, "Aye, there's the rub."

Gadgets book Then you are in luck, friend Weevil! The HERO publication schedule includes the Gadgets and Gear supplement, tentatively scheduled for early 2004. The description reads like the original Gadgets (which was one of the most useful of the old Champs supplements to me), raised to a higher power. Definitely on my "buy" list.

I've gotten a lot of mileage over the years out of the old Gadgets supplement for 3rd Edition Champions, which included a fair-sized selection of non-lethal weaponry. My favorite is the "Hyper-Velocity Pellet Gun", which fires an .11 caliber "soft" pellet which flattens on impact, for high stopping power with low lethality. It was written up as a 1D6 RKA with +6 STUN Multiplier. (The point totals for that came out higher than they would under current 5E rules.) That was the basic pistol version; the assault rifle version added Autofire. Another cool one is the "Flash/Smoke Dual Action Pump Shotgun", which fired rounds of Flash and Darkness to Sight ammo. The shotgun is double-barreled, with each barrel feeding off a separate clip. It was written up as a Multipower with Charges in clips for each slot.

Re: Its all about the points All right, let's analyze this: Sinister villains tend to have an intimidating "aura" about them that's very unsettling: how they look, sound, act, etc. Most should have fairly high PRE, and master villains should be capable of substantial Presence Attacks. Most shouldn't have high COM, though, and some will be downright ugly, except those who specialize in deception and seduction (see below). Sinister villains do a lot of lurking in shadows, especially minions who run their boss's errands, so Steath and Shadowing would be appropriate. Other infiltration skills like Security Systems or Concealment may also apply. Some villains will be skilled in extracting information from unwilling subjects, so should probably have Interrogation (often passing into torture - very effective to roleplay. Ever see the movie "Marathon Man"?) As far as Powers go, the SFX for sinister villains will tend to be dark and shadowy, vicious and bloody, or otherwise have frightening connotations. Some examples would be Darkness and Shadows (both as the Darkness Power and SFX for other attacks, although a shadowy or misty Change Environment does wonders for creating mood); Killing Attacks (various kinds of bladed weapons, or fangs and claws for animalistic villains); BODY Drains or NNDs that do Body (choking smoke or fumes, poisons or diseases); and Invisibility. Some attacks are frightening if they're large and lethal enough to kill a normal instantly (making an effective demonstration that the villain means business), while others are more terrifying if they're slow but continuing (choking gasses, strangling tentacles, or poisons with Gradual Effect but visible results, like convulsions or uncontrollable bleeding). Note that many of the above are for strong-arm villains who threaten heroes directly. Another major type of sinister villain is the one who seeks to deceive a hero or DNPC, setting them up for the right moment to strike, or trying to seduce them to the Dark Side. Besides high PRE and COM, these villains will usually have Persuasion and/or Seduction, and often Disguise and Acting. Powers include Mind Control, Mental Illusions, Telepathy (to learn secrets), and Shape Shift (to take a pleasing form, or the appearance of someone the victim trusts). Disadvantages will often be psychological, which really help define the sinister villain: Casual Killer, Sadistic, Likes to Play With/Torment Victim, Loves to Frighten, Treacherous, Enjoys Deceiving/Outthinking Opponent, Seeks to Corrupt Others, and so on. Distinctive Features are common for the more grotesque villains, or those who have an "aura of evil" about them. Occasionally a slightly impairing Physical Limitation makes sense (Missing Body Part, Limp, No Fine Manipulation due to unusual limbs, etc.). Susceptibilities and Vulnerabilities are usually no different from other villains with diverse origins, although supernatural villains tend to have them vs. Light, Fire, or Holy People/Places/Relics. Hope that helps.

Mental Powers would be appropriate for Wildside: as others have said, Mind Control to get you to conform when she's in civilian ID (which suits the rumors about Martha Stewart and her staff), and lose your inhibitions when she's Wildside. Or maybe Mental Illusions; there's a reason why everything she does always looks so perfect. Along the lines of that second theme, you could go with manipulation of inanimate matter through Telekinesis and/or Transform. For a fifth member, how about Striker, once in charge of R and D for the U.S. military. Frustrated by the government's refusal to deploy his most lethal weapon designs on the grounds that they're too vicious for "civilized" warfare, he's decided to show them their mistake by publicly "field testing" the weapons himself. Striker can also fill the team gadgeteer niche.

Toonol, you are right that sometimes a stacking of Advantages onto a Power can get ridiculous, so your approach could be considered valid in such a case. OTOH, there are cases when the cost of subsequent Advantages is factored into the size of an Advantage. Let's take Armor Piercing for example. A 15 Damage Class attack is the same Active Points as a 10 DC attack with Armor Piercing. AP can be neutralized by Hardening the appropriate Defense, which would probably cost less to the defender than buying enough Defense to blunt the base 15 DC attack. But any subsequent Advantages added to the AP attack will be less expensive than if they were added to the higher Base Point Power, which balances out their utility. Changing the way Advantages are calculated would be most appropriate on a case-by-case basis, which would probably be more work than it's worth for most people. It's more efficient in the long run to keep one standardized method and allow the GM to rule on what is or isn't abusive as it comes up. FWIW, what you're describing was the way in which Reduced END Cost was calculated before the 4th Edition of the HERO System: you added up the cost of all the other Advantages, then applied the RE Cost modifier to that total. Obviously, that approach didn't last.

Do you mean, change the special effect of the defense, or that of an incoming attack? Would you mind giving a little more detail of the effect you want?

Star HERO expands science-fictionally on FREd in ways almost too numerous to mention: guidelines for many types of sub-genre (military, exploration, cyberpunk, post-apoc, and more), for building aliens, using technology, generating alien worlds, dealing with the environment of space and alien worlds, archetypal character templates, plus sample equipment and starships. The quality and completeness of the book are, frankly, exceptional. The samples of tech are not extremely numerous, but more can be found in various supplements: more starships in The Ultimate Vehicle now available, and many more to come in The Vehicle Compendium scheduled for early next year. And in May, Hero Games is scheduled to release a sci-fi gadget compendium, The Spacer's Toolkit There's a very complete (and from most reports, excellent) campaign setting recently released, called Terran Empire. It covers several centuries in the history of Earth's interstellar empire, through periods both enlightened and despotic, so that you can choose an era that best suits what you want to play. It also describes the other major alien civilizations in the galaxy during this period. You can read more on these and other HERO products by clicking on the "Our Products" link at the left of this page.

Thanks for the correction, Derek.

When I hear the term "sinister", there are certain implications that come to my mind. One is active malevolence. A sinister villain doesn't just want to get rich or achieve power; he has an active desire to commit evil acts, to torment, abase or corrupt others. Another is subtlety. The sinister villain won't stop at bashing heroes who get in his way; he'll kidnap them (or better yet, their DNPCs) to torture or brainwash them. He'll work indirectly against his enemies at first, through minions or allies; not just via direct attacks, but through blackmailing them or damaging their public images, or hurting those that the heroes care about. A third implication is one of ominous menace. A sinister villain is not loud and flashy in his style, but darker, more restrained and brooding. Think Dr. Doom or Darkseid. Let's take your Demon King for example. The name alone sounds like a natural for "ominous menace", and you already have minions working for him (who would probably benefit from a "demon" motif to their uniforms, powers or origins). The Demon King sends his enemies etc. through the portal in his body. So, what happens to someone who passes through the portal? The answer could go a long way to adding a sinister element to the character. It would be a little bland if people just disappeared through it and never returned. Perhaps people in the other dimension are driven mad - it would definitely be sinister to have the Demon King expose an enemy to those effects, then dump the now-insane victim on his friends' doorstep. Perhaps the rift breaks the will of those who pass through it, turning them into slaves of the Demon King, which could be how he acquires new minions. Or the dimension may warp the bodies of those who enter, turning them into monsters; these could be obedient to the Demon King, or (the more sinister choice) may retain their normal minds and full awareness of what they've become. Of course, the rift may work both ways, allowing the Demon King to "pull" something horrific out of his chest - that should be worth a couple of extra dice to Presence Attacks.

Yep, it's the name that gets to me. The pulp era produced some wonderful fiction, and Justice Inc was an exceptional game book. It's just that Pulp HERO sounds incredibly bland to me; makes me think of some guy working in a lumber mill, which may be a great job but not one I personally would seek to roleplay. I readily acknowledge that this is a matter of personal taste. As the above examples point out, there are plenty of "generic" names for books that sell well, so this may very well be smart marketting strategy on DoJ's part. And as I said, I think Star HERO is actually a pretty snappy name. For my part, I just like game names that have style and impact in and of themselves, without necessarily tying in to a game line. And Hero Games already has a really good one in JI that I would hate to see disappear.

Al, one of the pages of the FAQ here on the website, "Working with the HERO System", answers quite a few basic questions about how to create certain types of characters with particular abilities, or create various common powers or artifacts you find in books and comics. It uses the "reasoning from effects" approach to designing these things that's basic to HERO: think of what you want the result to do and how you want it to look, then choose the Skills, Powers, Modifiers etc. that best fits what you want. The examples may or may not be obvious to you, but they would probably be useful to any new players you plan to "break in" to the system. Here's the link to the page: http://www.herogames.com/SupportFAQs/workingherosystem.htm

As far as I can find it in the book, the prohibition on certain Powers (excepting GM's permission) applies to any Framework, not just EC; but that prohibition only applies to Special Powers and Talents (FREd p. 203). Now, as described on p.86, Special Powers indeed do not cost END to use, which was probably a factor in excluding them. However, Aid is an Adjustment Power, so by my reading should still be allowed in a Framework even though it no longer costs END.