Steve

Pathfinder : Hell's Rebels - Face It Alone

We return to Kintargo, re-equip everything we burned through trying to burn through the Aboleth, and depart again to visit Vyre, on Vyre Island. 
 
GM: Think of it as Kintargo’s New Jersey. 
Terzo: So we could have returned to Kintargo via Vyre?
 
Vyre is known as the City of Masks, because it’s traditional to go about in disguise, to better enjoy all the illicit activities that form the bulk of Vyre’s economy.
 
Terzo OoC: Everything’s Legal In New Jersey.
Rajira OoC: As long as you don’t get caught.
 
A largely freewheeling and chaotic city, Vyre is not entirely without laws. Five rules known as ‘Promises’ govern all residents and visitors, compact enough to be carved on statues throughout the city - "I Shall Honor All Coin", meaning all transactions are assumed final and binding and all prices are negotiable. This rule also prohibits theft. "I Shall Speak Many Names", meaning all people should accept any name given by a person Vyre, regardless of its veracity, and without ever revealing a person's identity if they conceal it. "I May Wound Yet Shall Not Kill", which requires people to let their enemies in Vyre live in order to give them a chance to avenge themselves. "I Know None Are Below Me", which discourages all forms of prejudice and discrimination. "I Shall Let Closed Doors Remain Closed", meaning all private secrets and acts must remain private, and any broken promises are assumed to be intact unless sufficient evidence is provided.
 
Terzo’s player: It’s honestly astonishing that the Chellaxians haven’t had the city magically nuked. 
Rajira’s player: It’s too useful - You don’t seal off your safety valve.
Civilla’s player: It’s a good place to have agents. It’s their Casablanca. And it has rules, and doesn’t necessarily oppose Thrune. 
 
Civilla is going to take advantage of the fact that the prohibition on other gods isn’t complete across Chelliax, by wearing a full-face opera mask that references her own goddess of choice. It’ll also magically conceal her Alignment. 
 
Terzo: Well, going masked won’t be a hardship for me - I used to go about in disguise on a regular basis, back when I was younger and more handsome.
 
We have a few objectives in the City of Masks - make certain arrangements regarding a number of warehouses in the city on behalf of one Molly Mayapple, and contact the ‘kings and queens’ of Vyre to try and garner support for the rebellion. Of course the ‘rulers’ don’t exactly advertise their whereabouts, even if the existing advertisements leave nothing to the imagination.
 
Terzo: *stopping in front of one and turning his head sideways* Hmm. Haven’t seen THAT one in a while.

Civilla: You know, Terzo, there might still be copies of your work here.
Terzo: *cheers up*
Civilla: After all they’re illicit now.
Terzo: *cheers up even more*
 
There’s a lot of aspirant Hellknights hanging around Vyre, rounding out their life experience before joining own of the Orders. They’re pretty obvious. The Mask of Blades are less obvious, but still too much of a semi-official militia to be the kind of people we want to meet. 
 
Rajira: I’m trying to spot the *private* spies. 
 
Rajira spots at least three other factions following us around.  Most of them are probably from Vyre’s various interest groups, but she’s most interested in contacting one of the Masks of Blood, who oversee the legal affairs of the citizens of Vyre and assist them against foreign interests. She has Mahat drop a message where it can reach the appropriate personages. Molly Mayapple, on the other hand, is much easier to find - she’s running a hostel called The Seven Apples. Convenient, since we need a place to stay. And you can book the rooms for the entire night here, instead of by the hour. At least we’re more professional than most adventuring groups, so she doesn’t direct us into the queue for the corner booth.
 
Civilla: You know who has it worse? The bar wench. Adventurers putting on AIRS. Trying to pay with platinum, or rubies. That’s why I always carry copper and silver - the COMMON coin.
Rajira: And then the money changers take a cut anyway.
Civilla: Right! So you’re not doing the innkeeper a big favour anyway - instead of saying ‘let me know when this runs out’, at say ‘Let me know when this runs out - and charge me double’
 
Molly agrees to talk in a back room - she’s not pleased when she sees we have all those deeds we found in the Grey Spider’s lair.
 
Molly: So, what brings the Grey Spiders to my door?
Civilla: Grey Spiders? No no, we recently came into possession of these deeds.
Molly: And now you’re going to extort money from me, after stealing them?
Rajira: We’re just going to give them to you.
Molly: For FREE?
Civilla: I think you’re suffering a misapprehension. We’re not the Grey Spiders. We’re The Rumour. The Whisper. Chance Incarnate. A group of prisoners just *happened* to walk out of a salt mine. Another walked out of the gaol before they were due to be executed.
Molly: … you’re from Across The River.
Civilla: Yes. 
Molly: And you’re just giving them to me?
Civilla: As a display of good will and the benefits of future co-operation.
Molly: *tears welling up* Excuse me a moment.
Ayva: I think we’ve broken our hostess. In less that 5 minutes
Rajira: Still not our best effort.
 
Molly promises to get us an invite to one of the Masked Balls (of course all balls are Masques on Vyre) and 800 platinum in a Handy Haversack so we can enjoy ourselves in town - she’ll make that back easily now she has the warehouse deeds again. Of course Civilla came prepared for our trip, with everything she needs as letters of introduction - or the tools to forge them.
 
Terzo: This isn’t why I taught you calligraphy, young lady. 
 
The current Queen is an atheist, apparently, so Civilla’s mask might be a problem at the ball. The other advice we get include ‘don’t mention the King, even though he’ll be there’,  where to get the brand new outfits and masks expected for one of these functions, and suitable price ranges for the required gifts for the Queen. Spiders, onyx jewelry, fine mead, salacious works of art, lacy gloves, fancy potion vials, flowers with black petals, Ustalavic novels, or exquisite banquet utensils are preferred. 
 
Civilla: Unusual combination - Ustalavic literature is all ‘we’re cold and miserable and by the end of the book half of us will be dead’.
Terzo OoC: So she’s a rich goth.
Civilla OoC: A rich THIRSTY goth. 
 
Given the price of custom glassware made in three days, it’s just as well Molly gave us that bagful of cash. 
 
Terzo: Perhaps I can find her a collection of salacious poetry.
Rajira: Possibly, have you written any?
Terzo: I can always offer to customise it with one I make up on the spot. Well, claim I came up with it on the spot. 
 
Rajira commissions a pair of potion vials in the form of coiling snakes, Civilla brings an obsidian dagger in an ivory sheath with an onyx spider on the outward side and a concealed symbol of Noticula on the inward side. Shimza brings a corset with a spider motif (and another concealed symbol of Noticula). Ayva is bringing a painting of a naked woman with a strategically positioned variety of colorful spiders “Lady with Spider” (Not a Typo), but then she is the artist of the group.
 
Civilla: I didn’t have time to do a sculpture, OK?
 
Dressed to the nines and possibly elevens we arrive at Cobweb Manor, an apparently decrepit building guarded by flesh golems in suits, and infested by fist-sized spiders,  where a small group is already gathered. Nine guests and their assorted attendants who don’t count. Molly is with our group.
 
Ayva: Oh good, that makes 14 guests - otherwise one of us is bound to be murdered.
Civilla: Does Shimza count as a guest or attendant?
 
We decide that Shimza counts as Civilla’s plus-one, regardless of what that does to the likelihood of horrible murder. Molly helps us with the public names and backgrounds of the other guests, despite their masks, but Civilla already knows most of them anyway. 
 
Anca Verezzian: Female Varisian human; orphaned ex-circus acrobat; chief of security at the Final Throw; eager and curious. Asmerru: aristocrat from Hinji; interests in halfling slave trade; shameless gossip. Elitu Rosewinter: Female halfling; wanted for murder in Augustana; out-of-work assassin; sadistic and prone to using grisly metaphor in idle conversation. An unknown elderly Tian woman, her grey hair tied in a bun in traditional fashion. Notable feature is a mole on her chin. Kekza Zenk: Female gnome; ex-adventurer; dancer at the Nine-Tails pub; incorrigibly flirtatious Morvira Crispin: Female Chelish human; madam; owns the Night Tea Room, a local brothel; enjoys giving people embarrassing or salacious nicknames. Sefuri Dendru: Male Garundi human; businessman; owns the Coughing Carbuncle, a local tavern; heavy and proud of it.  
Terzo (OoC): I’m sure there’s a fascinating story why it’s called the Coughing Carbuncle and I’m equally sure I don’t want to know.
Civilla (OoC): Do you know what a carbuncle is?
Terzo (OoC): The gemstone or the cluster of connected boils?
GM: There’s also a kind of lizard that plays dead - that was probably the inspiration for the name.
Ayva (OoC): You’re welcome to ask.
Civilla (OoC): I’m not.
 
Strephian: Male half-elf; businessman; owns the Blue Monkey game hall; heavy drinker who never seems to get drunk. Xoshak Zabrinni: Elderly male Keles***e human; businessman; owns local curio shop Zabrinni’s Discoveries; refers to self in third person.  
All very plausible victims or suspects in a murder mystery, but we’ll see how things turn out.
 
Rajira arrives in an emerald green dress, backless and ankle-length, with a subtle scale pattern, accessorized with an emerald choker of ridiculous expense. Her hair is tied back with an emerald silk ribbon, and she isn’t hiding her non-human heritage at all. Mahat on the other hand is posing as her attendant, and is dressed in a monotone grey suit. Civilla and Shimza’s outfits are even more expensive, being black with blue and off-white highlights, augmented by corsets of black silk, their silver brocade accented with azurite insets, and both brought griffon mane reversible cloaks. Civilla’s outfit includes the purple and orange of her house. Ayva is wearing a dress of many hues of blue that look like paint on silk canvas with ‘drips’ of sapphires from the sleeves and dress. Ayva’s offsider Portia is wearing a Pink Plush dress out of a princess fairy tale. Terzo’s less expensive outfit includes a Chellish doublet with slashed sleeves, in red and yellow.
 
Civilla: Please tell me that’s noble standard. Or at the very least courtier.
 
Perhaps predictably for a place called Cobweb Manor, lair of the Queen of Delights, the interior decorations lean towards spiderweb, magical chandeliers, and numerous paintings both varied and scandalous. The dining room already has a guest seated in the door nearest the entrance - a skeleton in a tophat.  Presumably this is the King nobody is supposed to comment on. Portia is made to sit next to him.  When Manticce Kaleeki the Queen of Delights - a stunningly beautiful tiefling woman with blood-red eyes, prominent horns, and a scaled tail, and the star of some of the more salacious paintings in the building - enters, she is greeted with a standing ovation.
 
Terzo (OoC): Of course I stand and join the ovation, I taught Civilla half the etiquette she knows.
Civilla (Ooc): Of course that was only half of what he tried to teach me. And I then had to figure out for myself which half actually applied. 
 
She welcomes us with a short speech, and promises a meal that we’ll remember for the rest of our lives. That’s not ominous at all. 
 
The Queen of Delights: Greetings, new friends and old, to my home. I see some familiar faces here, and some delightfully unfamiliar ones as well. It is always a pleasure to serve new tongues the delectable offerings of House Kaleekii, and I trust you shall remember the meal to come for the rest of your lives. Tonight’s banquet is brought to us by master chef Annatolintis Tasetas, all the way from Katapesh, and consists of four expertly prepared courses. I expect the conversation to be lively and thought-provoking, and as always, I shall accept your gifts during the serving of dessert. Without further ado, let us begin!
 
Civilla and Shimza promptly down some antitoxin. 
 
The Queen of Delights snaps her fingers, and a small army of servants, all clad in diaphanous white robes and wearing wraps of gauzy veils over their faces, emerges. The servants quickly move with dishes to each of the dinner guests, and all at once they remove the covers to reveal the first course: In front of each guest is a tureen of heady, boiling-hot liquid sitting atop a nest of five short candles. The liquid has a hypnotically metallic appearance, like that of mercury. Also in front of the guests is a smaller bowl in which swim five live minnows. Finally are a set of utensils that include a two-tined fork; a sharp, slender knife; and a spoonlike sieve. This would seem rather more difficult than remembering which one is the snail fork. Careful glances at the other guests suggests we’re supposed to poach and fillet the fish, and blow out the candles to let the Quick Soup cool. Mahat performs flawlessly, but Civilla is slightly irritated that Terzo is more dexterous at catching the live fish.

Portia, unfortunately, manages to lose all her fish onto the table, as do some of the other guests. One of them just dumps his fish into the soup.
 
Civilla: This would seem to be the host’s chance to show that her guests are fools. 
Rajira: I’m seriously considering botching one of the fish on purpose. 
 
While we wait for the second course the Queen of Delights comments on the current political situation on the mainland.
 
Queen: If such a small group of rebels can fight back so easily against the powers of Hell, then is House Thrune really able to say they are in charge?
Civilla: Kintargo has never truly been Chelaxian - it’s always been its own creature
Queen: Interesting - I was more referencing events in Westcrown.
Civilla: Perhaps it is simply that Barzillai grips too tightly.
Rajira: If you squeeze too tightly, most things slip between your fingers.
 
The slave-trader is so offended by this that he spills his soup, denying that there’s any situation in Chelliax. Rajira murmurs an observation about how a slave-trader is hardly going to admit that an uprising is likely. 
 
Ayva: Ah, the slap you DON’T hear around the room.
Civilla: I’m not claiming that it’s the Empress’s fault - merely that of those she has act in her stead.
 
The second course appears to be a braised human head. Fortunately it’s a specially shaped boiled squash. The spices in the sauce are rather more of a problem, at least for those of us that didn’t grow up in areas where vindaloo is babyfood. Some of us are glad they brought vials of antitoxin AND antiflame.

Rajira (in vishkanya, to Mahat): Varisians, thinking they can handle spicy foods…
Civilla (In perfect Vishkanya): Who are you calling Varisian?

Queen: You know, this very aptly reminds me of the nation of Galt. The nation’s Red Revolution has been going on for years now, and so many have been beheaded by the ‘final blades’. It makes one think, don’t you agree? All the pain and death that comes from their actions, sometimes to oppose the rightful rulers. Is it any wonder that some would label these rebels as domestic terrorists.  How is it that these revolutionaries justify this?
Terzo: I imagine they’ll say something like ‘the rose of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.’
Civilla: *hisses* Do not use language like that!
 
Funnily enough two of the other guests do use language like that, and their argument becomes quite heated.

Queen: It seems we have our own rebellion growing at this very table!

She claps her hands in delight as the meat course is brought in - three large pies with golden, flaky crusts. The servants with the empty trays then line up behind the servant with the pies, who begin cutting large slices of the pies and giving those slices to the other servants. These servants then quickly go to each of the dinner guests and place a single piece of pie in front of each of them. The process of cutting and distributing the pies is insanely quick—the servants deftly deliver the pies to the guests within a minute of the first cut being made! Although, once the slices of pie are given, we discover the strangeness of this dish. The pies themselves appear to consist of crust and nothing else—yet while physics would dictate that the top of the crust would sag from lack of support, it doesn’t. It simply floats. Prodding between the crust reveals that there is indeed something of substance there, but it is simply invisible. Apparently it’s made from the flesh of an Invisible Stalker, and is supposed to be eaten before it reacts with the air. Rajira eats the entire slice whole, by dislocating her jaw. 

The Queen: Sin is very strange, don’t you think? What constitutes a ‘sin’ is very much a societal and cultural notion. For example, I’m sure many here would agree with the notion that cannibalism is a terrible and monstrous thing to do. But the gnolls of Garund have a very different idea—for they feast upon their own as a sign of reverence to the person’s life—almost like a funerary rite. They would hardly think twice of the moral implications of cannibalism, because to them there is no moral quandary. And yet, the ‘civilized folk’ label them as monsters who feast upon their own for the hell of it. We label one culture’s actions based on the cultural norms of another. Or, for a more close-to-home example, I personally believe that the worship of a deity is a sin, and yet here in Cheliax, worship of Asmodeus is all but required to avoid political backlash. It is fascinating, is it not? What one considers normal, another might consider terrible. So, let me ask you, my esteemed guests, as we let closed doors remain closed: what do you consider to be the greatest sin one can commit?

The Queen extends her hand to invite her guests to speak. After an awkward silence, it is the well-dressed half-elf who speaks first.

Strephian: Well, I would say wasting booze. 

This elicits a soft chuckle from a few of the guests—including the Queen.

Sefuri Dendru: Well, why that specific? I would say wasting food in general is a terrible thing to do. *proudly smacking his rotund belly*.
Kekza Zenk the flirtatious dancer: Well, I would have to say chastity. Just…no!
Xoshak Zabrinni: Xoshak believes fraud to be a terrible sin! You would never catch Xoshak doing such a thing!
Molly:  *thoughtfully pauses* Racism.
Asmerru the slaver: *glaring at Molly* It is a horrid thing to be disobedient to one’s superior.
Elitu Rosewinter, the halfling assassin: Heh. Resurrection.
Anca Verezzian: To give one’s trust is a great thing, but to abuse that trust…I have no pity for such a man.
Morvira Crispin: *clutches at a necklace that she is wearing and whimpers* N-neglecting your children…
 
The Queen of Delights turns her attention to the elderly Tian-Shu woman whom the PCs now realize has not spoken since the dinner began. She meets the Queen’s gaze, and the Tian woman’s words are spoken with pure venom and contempt: ”To invade another’s home.”

Terzo: To act against one's true self.
 
That, of course, goes down like a lead balloon in Vyre, and there are audible gasps around the table, but the Queen acknowledges it with interest, apparently realizing that Terzo is being perfectly sincere.
 
Rajira: To enter into an action knowing failure is the only option.
Ayva: To toil without purpose.
Civilla: I would say Pride - pure and simple. To pretend that there is nothing left to achieve, that that there is nothing left to do. None of us are perfect and all of us have room for improvement. 
 
This is an oblique reference to her faith in the Redeemer Queen, and the Queen apparently recognises it as ‘maybe you just haven’t found the right god yet’ and narrows her eyes.
 
The servants come back out with the desserts. The servants place the following in front of each of the dinner guests: A small plate covered by a silver lid, a strange device that looks like a little corkscrew, and a curious fist-sized object in the shape of a dodecahedron. The servants all simultaneously lift the lids, and a tumble of fat candied spiders pour out, their abdomens are much larger compared to their heads. The disproportional abdomens are about the size of a grape.
 
Civilla OoC: ‘So, which PCs have Disable Device?’
 
Unfortunately most guests do quite badly figuring out how to eat the dessert (or even opening the polyhedral puzzle box) so it gets a bit messy. At least the transdimensional d20s weren‘t Lament Configurations, and the mess is merely the dipping honey rather than blood and assorted organs. Shimza expresses her displeasure by skewering the spiders on her claws.
 
Rajira: *in Undercommon* Delicious.
Civilla: *in Undercommon* I wouldn’t know.
 
Then the Queen accepts the various gifts. She is generally quite pleased with them.
 
Ayva: I present, my lady, a modest painting of an immodest woman.
 
The guests mingle and eventually start to disperse, and Molly nudges us to indicate that it’s time to actually talk business with the host.
 
Rajira: An excellent meal, O Queen - pleasing to the belly and stimulating to the mind.
Queen: Thank you
Rajira: But I’m sure you are aware we are here for another purpose.
Queen: I am indeed, my darlings. And your performance tonight has already decided me. Now it is time for me to calculate your score.
Civilla OoC: Was that last bit the queen or the GM?
Terzo: In character for either.
Ayva OoC: ‘I must now count your BANQUET POINTS!’
 
The Queen is ready to support our overthrow of Thrune.
 
Queen: Of course Vyre will support your bid for freedom—this little banquet is nothing compared to the complex political machine at work. When the time comes to throw off Thrune’s shackles, Vyre will be there to aid you! Now, with all due respect, if you would please see yourselves out—my staff must clean the ballroom posthaste. Oh, but before you completely leave… Rajira, would you care to linger for a private conversation?
Rajira: Of course, O Queen.
 
The rest of us don’t bother to mill outside - it’s pretty obvious that Rajira won’t be home tonight. 
 
Terzo: How did Rajira manage to dislocate her jaw like that?
Mahat: Like this *does the same*
Civilla: … wait, are you truly that oblivious? Out of everybody here there are only two pure-blooded humans. 
Terzo: … wait, what… Even you?!
Civilla OoC: ‘When a Hag and an unwilling male don’t love each other at all..’
Ayva OoC: ‘When a Hag successfully catfishes an adventurer…’
 

I'm not so certain we run hugely different types of games.  I appreciate detail, all I am talking about is how that detail gets accounted for in the game.
 
So, say I gave players 350 points to build their characters and tell them that they can have two keywords each for skills (for free).
 
Each of those keywords contains the skills they need to "live" that keyword, like an extra two sets of everyman skills.
 
Batman takes Playboy and Detective.  Each of these come in at 11 or less. I am happy, on their character sheet to put as many skills as we agree fit underneath that keyword heading, skills that EveryPlayboy and EveryDetective "could" have.
 
I would allow them to individually raise skills within that for +1 per point spent.  I would allow 8 point skill levels for specific use in keywords and, if 10 skills are raised by 1 point, the whole keyword goes up by one.
 
I would also encourage the use of non-standard skills (not in the book) like "Make impressive entrance" to allow this to give colour and to add things on the fly, if we agree they fitted within the concept of the keyword.
 
I don't think this constrains a rich description of what the character can do.  I can see some players sticking with the two keywords, a few skill levels and possibly adding in a few free-standing skills that are obviously outside the keywords. I can see others wanting to list a vast number of sub-skills that both define and characterise the kind of Playboy, or Detective, their character is.
 
It means there is flexibility within the system for those that want it, and detail available without exorbitant cost.
 
Doc

There is something to be said for granularity in certain campaigns. The ability to have skills granularity on a slider is I think more useful then a whole sale change. I do think in general though I do tend toward the broader skill motif. Navigation just lets you navigate, Survival lets you survive unless your are WAY afield of your home terrain. Unless it's baked into the game that various characters all have different science background the SCIENCE!!! PC get SCIENCE!!!
 
This is why I think in spite of our current RAW feeling more restrictive to some people, I'm happy with it, cause I like most of what Steve has done and if I don't like something, f*#& it, I'll do it myself. 

I like using Expert for this, grouping a bunch of skills together and giving a -1 point cost modifier to each of them for following a theme.
 
It reminds me a bit of the old package deal modifier from early editions and works pretty well in saving points on skill lists from the various package deals in the current books.

2e Planescape to me was like Robert Asprin's Myth series come to life. The Bazaar at Deva was like Sigil

The importance of art and art direction in RPG books, especially setting books.  DiTerlizzi's sketches lent an ethereal and alien quality to a setting that needed to feel ethereal and alien.  Brom's art likewise set the tone for Dark Sun.

I encountered GURPS 2nd a matter of weeks before being introduced to Fantasy Hero 1E, and the Hero skills list seemed very short, elegant and concise to me. (At the time I had never before seen another skill based game.) Things got a little bloated after 4th edition; i don't really need all the science skills broken out, or really even need to distinguish science skills from KS/PS.
 
I've recently come to realize Hero has an awful lot of needless distinction; not nearly as much as GURPS, but they still clutter up the system. Forensic Medicine and Animal Handler could both just be PS, no need to these odd professional skills to be called out separately. User defined is fine; if the writers feel that it is REALLY important for the reader to think about forensic medicine as a skill, just provide a list of genre-appropriate PS ideas. (I do love the way user-defined skills are dynamic in breadth, it is amazingly elegant.) And why do we have both EB and RKA, when we could have a single Attack power that costs 5/DC, and just let the player decide which kind it is? The powers are virtually identical otherwise. These are only a couple of very obvious iceberg-tips... I feel the system really needs an editor, and obviously I'm the best guy to do it... 😇
 
I think the skill costs for heroic games are pretty reasonably. If you are spending 150 points in a fantasy warrior, he needs something to soak all those points. Wizards mostly take KS and can cheapen those with Scholar.

Pathfinder : Hell's Rebel's - Seaside Rendezvous
 
It would appear the criminal underground in Kintargo has a better information network than Thrune does. We know this for two reasons - 1) We haven’t been arrested and gruesomely executed, and 2) The head of the nascent Thieves Guild approaches us to ask if we intend to do to them what we did to the Grey Spiders. We don’t - a new organized crime network isn’t really a concern at the moment. Some of us certainly have PLANS for Kintargo, and they probably aren’t as utopian as Terzo’s, but the woman in question accepts our neutrality and even offers a few magical items to seal our non-aggression pact. 
 
Speaking of pacts, there’s a few issues in the wider geopolitical situation we have to pay attention to - making alliances to strangle the Chellish government’s ability to respond to the rebellion, and ensuring that international trade keeps coming through Kintargo whether Barzillai the Dogf***er likes it or not. Although we hear that there’s a much larger and shockingly successful rebellion happening in other parts of the Chellish Empire ( or what’s left of it). They’re mobilizing their armies in response, but all far away from Kintargo. Now might be the perfect time for Kintargo to break free entirely. 
 
The noble families of Kintargo have been getting a bit stirred up too - Thrune’s arrogance must be rubbing them the wrong way. Either that or they miss going to the Opera - Thrune again. It’s remotely possible that the extermination of the Victocora family is also a factor, and not just an opportunity for them to snap up property at bargain prices (Fire Sale! Everything Must Go!). The families in question, and members of the so-called Court of Coin -
 
Archbaroness Eldonna Aulamaxa - Lover of hunting and the Kintargan Opera. That combination certainly implies a build like Sybil Ramkin and opera tastes leaning towards the Germanic.  Count Auxis Aulorian - Controls Salt and Silver in Kintargo, currently looking for his son who mysteriously vanished, knows a lot about the workings of the new Kintargan government, May possibly be bribed?  
Civilla: Never use the same lever on two people - his son is already our 'in' with Captain Sargaeta. 
 
Archbaroness Melodia Delronge - Interests in Horsemanship, Mercantilism and Hunting, Currently allied with the throne. Baroness Belcara Jarvis - The Jarvis Clan are builders and Architects. Fairly down to earth. Baron Canton Jhaltero - Long family feud with the Alazarios, Rival Intelligence network, trades in Stone and Silver, Combining both networks could be useful  
Civilla: It's already obvious that our clans see eye to eye and therefore don’t like each other. 
 
The Sarinis used to have a presence in Kintargo but recently the last few left in some haste. Probably related to that little incident with the gate to hell, and the local patriarch being eaten. House Sarini is one of the better-known noble families of Cheliax, for no good reason - they’re nicknamed the "Fools of Thrune" or the "Lapdogs of Hell". Members of the house are often sent to amuse crowds at public executions in the capitol entertaining the common folk with their dark and violent humor. It is currently unknown whether members of this house do this voluntarily, or if their debased profession is a result of an offense against House Thrune.
 
Count Geoff Tanessen - Blacksmiths, Military tacticians and Suppliers, Armorers Baron Sendi Vashnarstill - House Vashnarstill are known to be more more loyal to the city of Kintargo itself than to the Chelish Crown or House Thrune. Their business interests are known to include fishing, trade with distant Arcadia, and shipbuilding.  
The Alazario’s aren’t members of the Court of Coin, for a couple of reasons. Being spread so thinly within and without the Empire doesn’t help, and repeatedly butting heads with the ruling family does them no favours at all. We do have one way to influence Archbaroness Aulamaxa - between Civilla’s tea circle, and Terzo and Rajira’s opera connections, we can meet her socially and introduce Rajira as a Diva-in-Training. Since we’ve been scrupulously careful to avoid notoriety, there’s all kinds of social events we can arrange without attracting suspicion from Thrune. We’re the Ghosts of Kintargo - the Inquisitor is probably certain that SOMETHING is going on, but we’ve left no clues about how many of us there are, or how organized. 
 
Civilla: Stuff keeps HAPPENING. Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.
Ayva: There was that time we got the prisoners out of the jail…
GM: That was supposed to be a jailbreak! You just walked in with clipboards!
 
Rajira and Terzo put together a little piece for Rajira to perform, based on Aulamaxa family history, and hunting. It goes quite well. 
 
Rumourmongers: Heard from a merchant ship that sailed too close to the Dismal Niche that there were strange fires burning on the shore. Place is haunted, for sure. Who in their right mind would live there?
Ayva: Let's put ‘possible undead’ down on the list, OK?
Rumourmongers: Heard that Thrune’s going to throw a costume ball for the city at the opera house, and that invitations will be going out across all walks of life. If that’s true... maybe Barzillai isn’t all bad?
Terzo: He’s never struck me as a very sociable person - what’s his real motivation?
Rajira: This is a major costume ball - these things aren’t about being sociable. It’s all politics.
GM: Maybe he’s trying to soften his public image.
Civilla: We’ve been saying for some time now that he BADLY misjudged this city.
Rajira: If it happens, I’m going, whether I got an invite or not.
Civilla: But this is a diabolist we’re talking about.
Ayva: It does smack of ‘gathering components’.
Civilla: ‘Zone of Truth’.
Rajira OoC: Why can’t it wait until I go up another level!
Civilla: I know, I feel your pain…
Rajira: I'll have protection against Truth magic then…
Ayva: I’m going to have to do so many Tattoo Guardians…
Rumourmongers: Menador Gap’s all but closed to traffic, with one of the lord-mayor’s distant relations overseeing the closure. Only Thrune loyalists are being allowed through the pass!
 
There’s all sorts of factors that make organizing an uprising in a fantasy setting difficult, and some of those reasons are truth spells and telepathy.  
 
Ayva: “We’re going to mindread your kid, because kids hear EVERYTHING.”
 
We decide to investigate the reports from the Dismal Niche - it might be a way to build an alliance with the nearest Sea Elf city, if we’re lucky, and Captain Sargeata can get us there much faster than trying to get there overland. 
 
Rajira: We really aren’t designed for operating in the wilderness.
Civilla: I did just learn Secure Shelter.
Rajira: And we’re probably going to be using that spell a lot, without ever leaving the city, unfortunately. 
 
There’s also been a development in that toll to cross the bridge between the north and southern parts of town - hardly anybody paid it, because any blackshirts that tried to enforce it ended up at the bottom of the river, but now the toll is being enforced by Hellknights of the Order of the Rack, and it’s been increased to a gold piece per trip, or ten for a day pass. This, of course, is calculated to infuriate the rich half of town, because they now can’t get their services and supplies, and the stevedores can’t get from their homes to the docks.
 
Terzo: … wow.
Civilla: He really wants to strangle the internal trade in Kintargo, doesn’t he?
 
There’s been a sudden increase of unofficial ferry services across the river. Can’t imagine why. On the other hand, since the bounty on rats still stands, and Ayva has magical pigments, she can paint a fresh pile of dead rats every day and exchange them for a day pass, with the added bonus that she gets to dump thousands of dead rats at the feet of the Hellknights. Daily. 
It’s probably a good opportunity to recruit the Jarvis clan, and build a pontoon bridge. And start a strike by the night soil men. 
 
Civilla: And believe me, everybody takes a strike by the gongfarmers seriously. 
Ayva: How high is it going to get? Pretty damn high.
 
Even if Lord-Mayor Thrune had to use forced labour to empty the chamber pots and latrines of Kintargo, it'd be a major drain on his resources. On the other hand, it would not go well for the strikers, so it’s probably just as well that the rich part of town actually has a working sewer system. 
 
Terzo’s player: What can we do without Civilla available? Not that we can rely on all the characters being available whenever rebellion business needs doing. Rebellions are even more difficult to organize than regular gaming sessions.
 
Random encounter table! In the form of suddenly listing sharply in the middle of the night, in what should be suitably deep water.
 
Terzo: Is this one of those roaming sandbanks we hear so much about?
 
It’s actually a roaming gigantic crab, clambering up the side of the ship.
 
Terzo: I presume Civilla hit her head below decks somewhere. Is the Poison Pen about?
GM: The Captain doesn’t want his little Boopsy hurt.
Avya: He’s a noble, and therefore useless.
Rajira: Not entirely, they tend to have some skills.
Avya: Well yes, but for the purposes of combat with a giant crab?
 
Ayva: I’ll Cast Fireball!
GM: On a Wooden Ship?!
Rajira’s Player: With one of us grappled and in its square?
Ayva: Maybe Scorching Ray, then.
Terzo: Unfortunately most of my more potent spells require the crab to know Common. Can anybody Awaken it?
Ayva: Sure, if we have an hour and some silver to spare.
 
Captain Sageata proves why he’s the best captain in the fleet by Rolling a ridiculous Crit, severing both claws, eyestalks, and ramming his cutlass hilt deep into its ventral nerve cord. 
 
Rajira: Now the only question is ‘how much butter do we have on board’?
Terzo: Technically speaking I suppose you could eat most of our enemies, but it tends to be socially frowned upon. 
 
Terzo’s player: You do have to wonder why Willy Wonka thought random golden tickets would be a good way to find someone who can run a confectionary factory - unless he was looking for someone to take the fall when the immigration department takes an interest in all those Oompa-Loompas. 
 
The sea-elf village out this way is a sorry affair, and the resident half-elves that gather as we approach look nervous, haggard, and sickly. 
 
Fullblooded Sea-Elf: Who are you interlopers! You are not welcome!
Rajira: A bit rude to say that when you don’t even know why we’re here. 
 
Whatever illness currently plaguing the village is a serious one - quite a few of the villagers are near death. Fortunately our high skill with diplomacy and offer of healing goes a long way towards resolving matters. Although their Speaker, an elderly half-elf woman, tells us that the illness cannot be healed by normal means, and is the result of a foul miasma emanating from the Drowned Eye. The Eye is an underwater haunted pit, recently unsealed. She can help us with the breathing-underwater too, if we need it, although Civilla already has a Wand of Waterbreathing.
 
There are plenty of advantages to living in a city, but unfortunately it does leave one at something of a disadvantage when it comes to operating out in the countryside, where the wildlife tends to be a bit more energetic, and sometimes eldritch. Pigeons are a bit less dangerous than sharks, and a lot less dangerous than underwater zombies.
 
Terzo OoC: Of course Jaws 2 is also a great example of why it’s important to vote in local elections.
 
The wildlife isn’t the only thing eldritch about the Dismal Nitch either - it turns out the Drowned Eye projects a powerful compulsion to passing sailors to jump overboard. Not that it makes much difference to us, we were all going to jump into the underwater sinkhole anyway. Because, as previously mentioned, we’re way out of depth when it comes to countryside adventuring. 
 
We’ve never heard of nitrogen narcosis, for example.
 
Terzo OoC: Now why am I thinking of the anglerfish seen from Finding Nemo…
Rajira OoC: I’m thinking of the Navy SEAL leader from The Abyss myself.
 
Civilla: huh, shark. Wait, SHARK! NOT MY SHARK!
Ayva: We’ve going to need a bigger shark.
 
The gigantic undead selachian coming up the shaft is as long as ten men.
 
Civilla OoC: Well we already knew Civilla was a Snack. 
 
Rajira: Sharko!
Terzo’s player: Shako was a polar bear (and on a CIA death list)
Rajira’s player: OK, Hookjaw.
Terzo’s player: Better.
Civilla’s player: Bruce.
 
GM: Describe the kill!
Terzo’s player: Healing energy ripple across the undead flesh, generating visually disturbing waves of regeneration that react catastrophically with the negative energy animating its flesh, and it blows apart into fish fingers. 
Ayva’s player: I’d have said it explodes like somebody stuffed a compressed gas canister into its mouth and shot it. 
Rajira’s player: That IS traditional with sharks. 
 
The cavern at the bottom of the shaft has more undead, one in a captain’s hat. 
 
Draugr Captain: YARRBBLRR!  *knocks Mahat into a wall and deals negative levels*
 
Black Tentacles prove most effective, which is surprising since tentacles are most common underwater so you’d think underwater zombies would be used to them. But as we turn to return to the surface (hopefully without dying of The Bends) the spirit of an aquatic elf woman appears - is it nothing but undead down here? No wonder the neighbours are complaining. 
Apparently she’s the ghost of an elven druid who died trying to rebuild the protections around the Drowned Eye, and she’s quite surprised no sea elves showed up to deal with the situation at any point in the last few hundred years. 
 
Civilla: I’m afraid the current sea elves are, ah, not available. They’ve all come down very ill.
Menota the Druid Ghost: Ah. So that’s how the Evil has manifested. I don’t suppose any of you are druids?
Civilla: *would choke on her drink if she wasn’t already underwater*
Ayva: Armour, leather studded armour, so, no.
 
Terzo has missed most of this conversation since he’s still struggling in midwater like a quail chick in zero gee. At least we can go fetch the living elf druid Athannah from the surface now we’ve cleared up all the more feisty undead, as well as any material components the ghost needs for the ritual. 
 
Civilla: Would a Bishop Agathion serve the purpose? I have friends.
Terzo: *still oblivious to Civilla’s deals with extra-dimensional Powers* And four of them are right here.
Civilla OoC: I had to cut myself off from saying ‘I have friends on the other side’, because that’s an entirely different arrangement. 
 
Apparently based on his ability to summon pigeons, Bert from Sesame Street is a Druid. And Ernie is a Warlock, because he can summon fish and Boogie-Woogie Sheep. 
The sickly sea elves are a bit surprised to see us return, without reliving their symptoms.
 
Civilla: We’re working on it. 
Terzo: Assuming the ghost isn’t actually the Evil in disguise, and trying to lure the only living elf druid in the vicinity to her doom. Is there any way to check the moral alignment of a ghost?
Civilla: … yes, but it’s a bit late to bring that up NOW. 
 
It’s certainly a bit suspicious that Athannah doesn’t recognise the name Menotha, but then it HAS been a few hundred years. The ranger Nerrenn who was so suspicious about us when we first arrived insists on coming with us, by way of apology. 
 
GM: So, who’s going back down?
Civilla: All of us, I suppose. Something’s bound to go wrong.
Terzo: And this way I get to say ‘I told you so’.
 
Terzo: So, how exactly has it gone wrong?
Civilla: Nerrenn is a bad guy and you were right about the ghost.
Terzo: *sigh* I try to be optimistic but it’s always so depressing when this sort of thing happens. 
 
Menotha gestures towards group minion Mahat, the most obvious fighter in the party, who fails his paltry Will save.
 
Menotha: You, come fight for me.
Rajira OoC: Mahat only has a Wisdom of 6.
Civilla OoC: Mahat has a “Won’t” Save.
 
Menotha vanishes into thin water when Civilla Dimension Jumps into the other underwater chamber, which is a bit strange. Even so, we have a mind-controlled Nerrin and Mahat to deal with. Only for Civilla’s Cohort, the Phoenix Arcanist Shimza Tismanescu, to dispel the mental domination on Mahat. Terzo’s attempts to do the same on the presumably enthralled Nerrenn fail. 
 
Rajira OoC: I’m *hoping* someone can break him out of it before I have to kill him.
 
In the other chamber we find out why the ghost vanished. 
 
Deep Telepathic Voice, Right Behind Civilla: You just HAD to get in the way, didn’t you. 
Civilla: Eep!
 
The Aboleth drops its other illusions - Civilla’s teleport happened to put her in the way of the line-of-sight illusion it was casting. She’s also in the worst possible square in the entire cave system - right in the creature’s cloud of lethal mutagenic slime. It menaces her with tentacles. 
 
Rajira OoC: I’ve seen enough hentai to know where this is going.
Aboleth: *Slimes Civilla*
Rajira OoC: It even comes with its own lube. 
 
Portia casts Confess on Nerrenn - a spell that causes damage on targets that don’t answer truthfully.
 
Portia: What’s my middle name?
 
Civilla, already in very bad shape and looking somewhat… boneless… Dimension Jumps back into the main chamber and warns us about her discovery, with an understandable amount of excitement.
 
Civilla: ABOLETH! KILL IT!
 
She sics three Celestial Sharks on the alien abomination. The rest of us are still trying to subdue the ranger, rescue the living druid, and kill the non-celestial shark the Aboleth has mind-controlled. At least the Aboleth is now pretty preoccupied trying to keep the Celestial Sharks hypnotised, because every time its concentration wavers it gets bitten again. We are also questioning the wisdom of bringing fire-based magical attacks underwater. If it doesn’t have flame does it boil the water instead?
 
Terzo: But what about the criminal penalties for poaching? 
 
Anya OoC: If there’s an underwater section in the mountain fortress part of the campaign I’m going to be monumentally p****d.
 
The Aboleth eventually gives up the non-illusory ghost, and cautious poking around reveals that there are in fact some runes down here. They’re in Aklo, a very unpleasant language. Civilla, of course, can read Aklo. And, indeed, the Aboleth language Alghollthu, which is even worse. 
 
Terzo: As much as I appreciate the fact you can decipher this, Civilla, but exactly what books have you been reading lately?
Civilla: Just the family library.
Terzo: Hmm. I question some of their purchases.
Civilla: Remind me, dear Terzo, what’s my family motto?
 

 
 
The base runes radiate negative energy into the surrounding environment, although there’s supposed to be a warding layer preventing that. 
 
Terzo: Can we change it so it radiates positive energy?
Civilla: The world is supposed to be in balance - that would cause entirely different problems.
 
Although Terzo’s suggestion does suggest to Civilla that the Aboleth was actually messing with the runes itself, apparently intending to summon something huge, aquatic, and undead. We are able to unravel the entire rune array, after Rajira disables the traps.
 
Anya: It’s like one of those sliding tile puzzles.
 
The sea elves are suitably grateful, and promise to assist the Ghosts of Kintargo in future. That will be handy if the Chellish Navy gets involved in suppressing the rebellion.
 
Terzo: Don’t blame Nerrenn - he was being mind-controlled by an Abomination.

 

 

were I on my computer, I could move that to where I wanted to group it, but... 
 
Anyway, there are some interesting thoughts coming up from folks that shows a bit of concensus here for this idea. 
 
 
 
 
You and me both.  Though for what it's worth, it is easy enough to add back in.  Yes; I know that you know that, and that your complaint refers more to it being officially axed, and I know that you can't get Hero Designer to accept it for a 6e build, but I always hope there is a new guy out there reading these threads....  That was more for him.   
 
My own "issue" (I can't say complaint because I still use both of these things the way that I believe they were meant to be used) with Elemental Control was the interpretation that the community took and ran with for both Elemental Control and Multipower. 
 
You remember the early days: we had nothing.  No settings, no modules, just the rules books.  Eventually we got an adventure or two (honesty time: the original Island of Dr D was _terrible_, and we all know it.  Christopher's rework of that piece is a billion miles ahead of the original-not just for the update, but because it is an RPG adventure and not just a war game capture-the-flag scenario.) and we got an enemies book.   We didn't even have Adventurers club or a third-party rag with any interest in us in the early days. Best of all, we didn't have an internet.  We could do whatever made us feel right about the game and not have to check in to make sure that remote faceless strangers agreed with us, and us remote faceless strangers couldn't get our kicks telling you that you were completely wrong, and therefore were not having a good time correctly. 
 
All we had were the examples in the rules, and by dribbles, in latter supplemental works. 
 
From those examples - the 'how-to' bits in the rules and the actual characters that we would come across, I got the distinct understanding that Elemental Control was more of a theme thing-- like Spiderman had a spider theme, and all of his wall crawling, leaping, and strength would fit into that, _and so could his web shooters _. 
 
Multipower, however, seemed to be reserved for characters who had single power source that they could use multiple ways:  my command of gravity waves let's me fly, repel objects, create strength-sapping zones of heavy gravity, and generate concussive waves of tightly-mixed variable gravities, doing massive damage to whatever I strike. 
 
I can use my ability to create and manipulate heat to loft myself on tightly-controlled thermals, generate blasts of white-hot flame, and create a wall of heat so intense projectiles are vaporized before they get near me. 
 
All of these are _super cool_, right? 
 
And they are _one power_.  The very nature of Multipower demonstrates that:  I buy a control, which has the bulk of my 'stored geavity' or whatever, and slots, each of which represents things that I can do with that gravity. 
 
In fact, because I can only generate so much intense heat, if I raise my forcefield to it's maximum, I have to sort of hover, because there is barely enough left over to fly; blasting someone is just out of the question.  (anyone else remember turning off Flight in mid-air, using a held action to attack full-force, and then turning Flight back on?  Anyone?  Okay; it's just me.) 
 
If you went with ultra slots, it was _painfully_ obvious that you were manipulating a single power source. 
 
The idea held for guns, too- a perinnial favorite build of the Multipower because then you could take that sweet Focus limitation as well (as you do when you are building 'the most expensive way'    ).  You have six slots, (usually Ultras) representing different ammo or different features of the gun. 
 
This holds up as evidence that you really have only a single power: Gun.  If Arkelos the Mage casts "Dispell: Gun," you are _screwed.  If the GM decides it is time for that Focus limitation to bite you just a bit, you do not have any of your slots because you lost the only one power you had: Gun. 
 
The most telling thing- to me, I mean-- was the rebate.  The rebate was _huge_ (still is) for Multipower, which suggested some significant drawbacks.  In modern discussions, when someone prooeses a 'not in the presence of X' type build where they cannot use one power when using another, or the two are somehow scaled, we recommend 'lockout' and similar limitations, which are fine, of course, but they don't offer the rebate value of Multipower. 
 
Finally, and this one goes all the way back to 1e: Multipower did not start out listed as a power framework.  It was listed as a power. (as was Elemental Control, actually).  I know a lot of you that never played 1e bought the Bundle of Holding when it popped up.  Go check it out: Multipower was listed as a power that allowed one set of points to feed multiple abilities.  Much like today; the wording really hasn't changed much at all. One set of points rolling from one power to another, or being split amongst the slots-- a single power : a multi-use power; a power that can be tapped and expressed multiple ways. 
 
So from the earliest days of Power Drain, we applied those Drains to _the whole multipower_.  We treated it as one power.  To this day, those are the types of builds for which I encourage Multipower (assuming the player is willing to accept the inherent drawbacks, of course). 
 
Now until I got online, I had no idea people bagged on Elemental Control so badly.  (I also had no idea how many people were using incorrectly, and over-discounting the powers within, but that's another story.  Well, a couple of examples: pay full price for your most expensive power and all others are half price.  Pay full points for your first power, and all others are half price.  How many people, do you suppose, had Instant Change or +1 STR as their first power at _that_ table?!). 
 
From chat rooms, then to Red October, and finally to these boards, people were constantly trashing Elemental Control.  (I would like to point out that, much like "Killing Attack is broken!"  the complaints almost always seemed to come from the "points are for game balance" camp.  I do not know if that is significant, but the possibility is strong enough that it seems worth mentioning.  Ironically, when used properly, the discount for EC didn't outweigh that of Multipower until you got up to eight or more powers, possibly more depending on how you built (you could over-pay on your control and end up paying too much for a slot with a low-cost power in it, or underpay your control cost and end up paying additional full-cost points far too often.  You want my honest ooinion?  People bagged on EC because it was complicated. )
 
Then along came- was it 4e or 5e?  I seem to remember it was 5e, but that may just be the first time I noticed it- the declaration that Elemental Control was, in fact, one single power with Multiple aspects, and that adjustment powers that affected any EC power affected all EC powers, etc. 
 
Now I have read everything 4e, just as many of you have.  I am pretty certain that I own everything 4e up on the bookshelves, including the dual-stat ICE stuff, because if you wanted a module for anything that wasn't Champions, then you had best be playing Fantasy HERO.  (For those who did not venture into the world of Kulthea, it could be a bit dark.  It could also be a bit murder-hobo ish, if you weren't careful.) 
 
Anyway, I have read it.  Yes; I saw the same trends as everyone else: Multipower popping up on lots of places I would have gone with EC, and a few the other way around.  My only thoughts at the time where, the construct doesn't really seem abusive, and Multipower _is_ easier to use, but the limitations..... 
 
Anyway we got to a point where the official rules stated that EC now has all the drawbacks that you assumed MP had, and MP does not. 
 
And I just kinda moped right out of that.  Well, there commentary.  So much commentary.  So very much overly-colorful commentary.... 
 
Some of the less colorful was "yes; this make sense.  Because Peter Parker got bitten by a radioactive spider who came back a week later and handed him some sweet web-shooting bracelets.  That is just how these things go.  Because draining his web"-shooters should automatically reduce his vertical leap. 
 
 
Anyway, as has been suggested before, "Unified Power," applied to enough slots, will eventually get you to the rebate point that Elemental Control used to get you, but it removes all the hoops, so now you can apply it to two powers.   Not gonna stop using EC, though, and you aren't going to get all of your powers modified because one got adjusted. You will with Multipower, though. 
 
 
Gid dinged right it is!  More than anything, this is the biggest use I have for it these days. 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
Agreed again! 
 
Dude, even an inch of stretching, held as a surprise, can totally change a tactical situation, plus the fun things you can do: ersatz Swinging, climbing, grabs and holds.  By far, though, my favorite use of just a small amount of Stretching is "Surprise! Looks like _one of us_ is in melee range!" 
 
 
 
That!  That right there!  Cascade skills are the thing for heroic or realistic type games, and I heartily encourage someone who does not write the rules (because I cannot imagine anyone thinking we need a longer rule book) to give this a try.  You might go around and gather your players' skills and create your own lists for them to have when playing, though I would recommend asking your players something like "pick 5 skills that fall under that heading that you want at that level, then pick either two each from each of those that you want at (some lower level)" or even  "then pick ten skills under that main heading you want at (some lower level), and possibly go to 15 total on a tertiary level. 
 
Shoot me, but I think that as an exercise, it would be _awesome_!  Of course, I forgot to take all of my blood pressure and heart meds today, so I am feeling much better than I have in months, with energy and excitement to spare, so bear with my enthusiasm, please. 
 
I think it would be fun to do; seriously.  I also think it would be a pain the rear to play, because there will be some aspect of police work that you or the player did not consider, and now he doesn't know how to do that. 
 
So here is an alternative:  pick X amount of skills that believe comprise your specialty in 'police work.'. Pick Y amount that you are only passingly familiar with.  The first set will be at the level of your Police work skill; the second set will be at 8 or less; all other aspects will be at (some agreeable midpoint).  This way, the player gets to specify both his strengths and his weaknesses, but he won't necessarily come up shot in the clutch because he had to create a specific list of everything he knows. 
 
When Police work goes up, they all go up by the same amount, or, just to keep it lively, all but one from each group goes up with it (players choice, of course).  You get a degree of granularity (possibly with increasing variation), and you are still reasonably close to Hero-normal. 
 
Just thoughts, and I would love to see someone try them.  I likely won't, because I took a lot of inspiration from Marc Miller and don't often play a skills-heavy game: buy skills for things that you do exceptionally well, and we will do characteristics rolls or what-have-you for things that you just know or know about.  (in supers, anyway). 
 
 
 
 
Right up until you are looked in a windowless room, anyway. 
 

 
I  agree with the sentiment, thought, that skills are priced a bit high, at least for a superhero game.  That is why I tend to (see above). 
 
For heroic games, I find them to be about right, and I don't go o super-granular (like that guy that wants me to tell him what five parts of my job I suck at).   I run them tighter than I do in supers, but I also keep in mind that for normals, skills kind of _are_ their "special powers," so the pricing seems more fair.  Besides, I fold a few things into them, 
 
Even then, though, this is a conversation about value for your points, and points balance because costs are similar and values are not.  It doesn't make one of them wrongly"-costed, though.  Still, because the skill system in Hero is so fascinatingly devoid of explanation, the best thing I can suggest is selecting a level of breadth that you are comfortable with: woodcraft instead of survival, msybe: I can survive, build a fire, hunt game, skin it and tan the hide, and build a log cabin.  I can dig a well, read the seasons in tree bark, and the weather by the turn of the leaves.  I can walk without leaving a trail, and am unimpeded by underbrush.  I can craft a jug from tree bark and a canoe from deerskin.
 
That sort of thing. 
 
 
 
 
Sorry; wrong quote. 
 
 
 
That's the quote.  And honestly, I feel that stating precisely that would be far, far better that saying "use the most expensive build" and then demonstrably violating it a few dozen times in the rules ever was. 
 
It encourages the new player or GM to get comfortable with the rules-comfortable enough to identify a 'cheaty build' - and provides actionable advice: you make a build that does the thing, but it should have a reasonable price tag.  It also doesn't say hat this price tag has to be the most expensive option.  It just works better all around. 
 
Still, there is one more thought,  but not right here. 
 
 
 
Right here. 
 
I think we should _encourage _ chesty builds, at least for a while.  We _all_ did it during our learning phase.  We did it because it was _fun_!  We all _loved_ coming up with something outlandish (I once wiped out all my friends with a super I had built on eighty-eight points.   It was _awesome_!) 
 
I can one-hundred percent truthfully say that if it wasn't for various challenges from Jim like 'we are doing a free for all tonight.  You have one hundred fifty points to make a character, and we start fighting in twenty minutes, " that there is very little chance that I would know this system the way I do, or that I would have even been interested in learning it so deeply.  (I have to say that we never really appreciated Jim as the GM he was.  So much of what he did that we thought of as silly, or copping out because he had forgotten to prepare something, or tons of other things-- he had been gone for over a decade before I really understood how much he had taught me about not just learning a gsmr, but understanding it and running it in a way that worked for everyone-players and characters-at the table that nihht- about not just _knowing_ the rules, but totally _underdstanding_ them-- not as instructions, but as a favorite piece of fiction, to be enjoyed over and over.  Jim was awesome, and I didn't know it in time to properly thank him. 
 
 
Anyway, you can't really _see_ some of the more clever "cheaty builds" until you know exactly what you are looking for.  Or, as my gransfather once said, you don't look anywhere you don't already know a fella could hide. 
 
There are a number of reasons-famiarity with the system being topmost-that I feel we should _encoursge_ cheaty builds, even if only as a fun exercise with which one could do a battle Royale and show off to his friends. 
 
I also think it might be helpful to explain that this type of build can be harmful to a campaign, where not every player is going to be as savy as any other player, and mention that learning to "cheat" on a legendary scale can both demonstrate the problems with such builds, and help lewnr how to look for them.  Whatever else we might do, I think we should encourage it as a 'special ourpose' sort of event that is catahrticc every now and again. 
 
I still enjoy doing it once in a while, and I have ebeen playing a long time.  I learned so many things that way: Crain End (old rules) was stupid cheap; drain Recovery was more brutal than Driain Body, and for the same price.  Nothing goes with T-form like a nice round of Drain: Bidy, though.  Desolid: usable as Attack takes anyone completely out of combat, instantly.  +10 Recovery usable as attack makes you everyone's favorite teammate. 
 
These aren't particularly cheaty, mind you.  They re just a list of some of my favorites from way back when. 
 
 
 
Exactly. 
 
 
 
You're welcome, Sir. 
 
Always delighted to make an OG Champions playtester happy.   
 
 
 
 
Well, you know I didn't.   
 
Hinestly, I would have loved to see the new ideas keep coming in the Champions II and Champions III type format.    You know: here are a few new ideas, and we have some revamps if you have found X to be too troublesme.  A few disads, and we thought you might like these new disadvantages.  That sort of thing.
 
Maybe one a year, and after 5 of them, release a new core rules that is the original rules with the new material worked in.  I know me well enough to tell you that I would buy bith: I couldn't wait five years for the new edition, so I would buy the updates as they came about, then I would buy the new edition to have it all organized so I wouldn't be flipping throu so many books to find what I want.  Your core system wouldn't change: you would just have more powers, Disadvantages, limitations, and such to play with.
 
4e got some mileage like that out of Hero System Almanac, but it hasn't really been done since.  One could say the APGs were kind of like that, but I read them essentially as 'here are some pre-built powers you might like" with some light advice scattered about. 
 
 
 
 
Oh, I agree.  I very much agree.  But as I said: it was an example of something that we have all seen right here.  I chose this example specifically because I was confident it didn't involve anyone here; I wasn't trying to call anyone out. 
 
Barely related note: has anyone seen Filksinger since Red October shut down?  I miss that guy. 
 
 
 
 
 
This isn't even an edition complaint.  This happened in the age of chat rooms!  When we all had free internet because those AOL disks just kept coming.... 
 
At the very latest, they could have been playing 4e.  This was a the game is the mechanics / the game is what you do debate: which is more important?  Creatively solving the problem with the resources and mechanics at hand, or mandating every mechanic be adhered to at the expense of a creative solution debate.  This was the birth of 'Powe skill' kind of debate, where we created a catch-all to make certain that no possible action goes uncharged for. 
 
 
 
 
That is because it _is_ clever.  It is players using their skull meat to plumb the depths of possibility, and teaching themselves how the elements of the game can be combined to interesting effect.  I cannot discourage that practice as an exercise because it has too much value as a method of learning. 
 
 
 
 
Also agreed.  It should not be allowed in a "regular" game, but I still think a nice throw-away munchkins cage match can inspire a lot of self-directed learning. 
 
 
 
Ditto on most counts. 
 
 
 
There is a guy on this board who might want to compare notes with you.  He is currently running a HERO Star Wars game.
 
 
 
 
You still remember how much fun it was at the time, though, right?  Who are we to suggest depriving new players of those sensations when there is so much to be learned from the doing? 
 
 
 
You lost me there, Sir. 
 
 
 
Really?  You never at any point saw character creation as its own game, and sat down to see how much you could get for some minimal amount of points?  Not once?  Or wondered about a particular combination of powers or moddlifiers- never wondered enough to just try it and see what happened? 
 
 
 
Similar here, but that is primarily because I am browsing for things I might want to add to my already-extant game; I have zero quibbles about just ignoring rules changes or new constructs with which I disagree. 
 
 
 
Agreed completely. 
 
 
 

Automat food
Circuit City
Crown Books
Floppy disks
Green stamps (S&H)
H.R. Pufnstuf
KB Toys
Pet rocks
Roller skate keys
Rope climb in gym class
Sam Goody
Sea monkeys
Sears catalogs
Slide Rules
Tab soda
Tom McAn shoes
Tower Records
TV stations signing off for the night
Video Game Systems: Atari, Intellivision
Video Games: Asteroids, Computer Space, Defender, Double Dragon, Dragon's Lair, Frogger, Galaxian, Gauntlet, Joust, Out Run, Pong, Space Invaders.
Woolworth's

I still think the art from 2e Planescape is my favorite -- it just fit.

Oh, dear.  Where to begin?
 
- If your group outnumbers the opposition, you can effectively boost everyone's DCV by 3 by having everyone hold actions and dodge, only attacking once all the adversaries have gone.
- You can do the same thing if your SPD is higher than your opponent's.
- Don't forget you can block with that large shield too.
- In heroic level games that use hit locations and/or crits, Flash, Darkness, grabs, and Entangles are excellent ways to set up opponents for a haymaker by a teammate.
- And if you're playing with hit locations, wear a helmet.
- For spells, pile on as many Limitations as you can get away with until you can get the real cost below some number that ends in .49 so it rounds down. 
- Noncombat spells especially benefit from Limitations.  So what if your 1d6 Cumulative Transform takes a full minute to cast?  It'll still get you through a castle wall in less than an hour.
- Technically there's no reason Side Effects can't be a beneficial effect.  If your GM won't let you use Healing, there's always Drain vs. COM or Flash vs. Taste.
- Or you can outsource the Side Effect with Area Effect Hole In The Middle.
- Seriously though, don't be afraid of Side Effect; even Drain vs. STUN or EB aren't that bad.  And you're going to use the saved points to buy up your Magic skill to 17-anyway.
- Want total immunity to melee attacks?  Flight is cheap.
- Certain Powers are extremely useful even at low active points.  Flight, Telekinesis, Stretching, Teleport, certain Senses, Flash, Entangle.
- Conversely, conventional attacks are kind of not worth it for spellcasters.  Why spend points on a killing attack when sharp sticks exist?  But do invest in an AOE attack to deal with swarms.
- Entangle is generally underrated.  Immobilize an adversary without killing him (on the rare occasions that's necessary).  Build barriers.  Drop opponents to DCV 0 if only for a phase. 
- Summoning (and Duplication) are expensive but fun, in the sense that they give you additional (and expendable) PCs to play.
- Mundanes should remember to exploit all the options available to them.  Trip that ogre!  Disarm the villain with the hellblade!  Do a move through if you're crossing the map anyway!
- Buy a skill up to some ridiculous level and point out to the GM that (for instance) you spent more points on Stealth than it would have cost to buy Invisibility.
 
If I remember any more I'll post them.

These are the entries from the Goodman School of Cost Efficiency.  They are actually longer and more detailed than I remember, about a 3rd of the page.  These are summaries:
 
-After a certain point, complications start to lose their effectiveness and become a net loss for your character (this was before 6th edition, when complications brought down your total overall character cost).
-Rounding in characteristics results in certain break points such as 13 and 18 (anything ending in a 3 or 8 ) which makes them very efficient
-Odd numbers of dice or point totals round down giving you better END Cost, especially if you buy half END on a power (both 8d6 and 9d6 blast is 4 END for example).
-Levels are the great equalizer, allowing for a lower CV character to be excellent where they need it, particularly broader categories like a level in Multipower or Overall levels which are very efficient
-DEX is super efficient because it gave you several figured characteristics, including "hidden" ones like CV and combat order.
-Rounding comes up again in movement, giving you a full 1" added half move (8" running is 4" half move, but 9" is 5" and only cost 2 more points).
-CON is the biggest bonus for figured characteristics, giving you ED, REC, END, and STN not to mention protecting you from being stunned
 
Some of these aren't as significant any more, and all of them probably seem really obvious to old time players, because we all studied Goodman's ideas and took them to heart decades ago but I think they matter a lot to new players, helping them see how to construct a more effective character.
 

Assault has a good point on working hunteds into the story.  If the GM is going to have a particular group show up a lot, he might want to encourage or even require all characters in the campaign to take that group as a hunted.  Many campaigns I have been in almost all the characters have Viper as a hunted.  Other campaigns often have other groups, but there is usually a lot of shared hunteds.
 
For some characters buying a DNPC pool works better than defined DNPCs.  Instead of writing up specific characters the player defines a fairly broad group of characters that will get involved.  This could be anything from the girlfriend of the week to random friends.  Have the character define a number of points for the complication/disadvantage and the GM decides on the details.  One week the DNPC could be an old military buddy, the next week it could be your teenage niece. One thing to keep in mind about DNPCs is they are supposed to create more trouble than they are worth.  So, the competent DNPC is usually going to get into some really dangerous situations.  If the DNPC is providing more help than hindrances, they are not DNPC’s, and the character should be buying them as followers.
 
Followers are the NPC most likely to cause problems. The way I handle followers is that their screen time is taken from the character that purchased them.  If you have a lot of competent followers your only screen time may be giving orders.  
 

If a character has significant Movement with Running or Flight, I find Movement Skill Levels to be a really good investment. At 2 CP each they're dirt cheap considering the versatility they can give you:  improved Turn Mode, enhanced acceleration/deceleration, and increased DCV when Dodging.

Ahh the Late Steve Goodman. He was a regular at Hero games and was famous for rules hacks. He played more Fantasy Hero than Champions, but he was a member of The Guardians. Very chill guy and a font of information. I’ll raise a shot glass of Glenlivet in his memory. 

Got any good tips?
 
Those of us who are past a certain age remember fondly the Goodman's tips in the old Champions books.  They were bits on how to build a character more efficiently (13 and 18 are great break points in stats!).  The story behind them is great, apparently there was a buddy of one of the writers named Goodman who wasn't a big gamer but he was one of those guys who always knew just instinctively how to squeeze the most out of any rule set and so the bit was slipped into the books.
 
I have been thinking over some of those, most of them still apply but are less efficient than before (like buying your CON up to push like 4 other stats, plus your roll).  Stuff like:
-holding your attack to block with, then attack first on the next phase
-multiple attacks on large or immobile targets
-help your buddy's skill roll with a complimentary skill roll if things are tough
-take a little more time
-look at more obscure combat maneuvers like set and brace
 
That kind of thing.  What are some other Goodman-like efficiency and insider tips would you suggest for newer players?

Along the Goodman lines, specifically:
 
Add one more point to your DEX.  It can stave off tie breakers with folks who buy in blocks. 
 
Got a couple of points left from character creation?  You will never go wrong dropping them into Recovery. 
 
And not really Goodman, but from the things I have learned file:
 
_Always_ have a held action.  If you don't use it as a counter-attack, take a Recovery with it.  As soon as you use a held action, get another one as soon as you safely can. 
 
Saving up your experience points to buy something sweet?  You can store them on the back of your character sheet, but you can also store them in Endurance.  Sure, you can store them in any characteristic, especially in 6e, but that little extra. It of End in older editions can be surprisingly handy, and you don't miss it as much when it's time to cash it in.  If you are playing 6e, store them in Recovery. 
 
 
(related note:  had a player who was working toward saving thirty-two points for i-dont-even-remember-what-- this was right after the 'radiation accident' article came out. He stored his points in COM. 
 
Man we had fun with that, and twice as much after he spent them.) 

NPCs I will give you; they were usually detailed enough to play immediately.  I owned the bulk of the Star Frontiers stuff, and I have to tell you, there was diddly / squat for setting.  Individual modules gave you relevant location details, of course, but the closest it got to setting was saying "here's some stuff about the four playable races, and these wormy things are evil. 
 
Various adventures made you space cops or soldiers or something in between, but there was no real explanation of why the war was actually about, either. " The Sathar are at it again! " isn't terribly far from "Somehow, Palpatine is alive."
 
Looking back on my memories of Gamma World, it didn't beyond generic until the middle of the 2e life cycle, then shot itself in the face with 3e and the Marvel Superheroes "here are some charts with colors on them.  Use these to know everything about your character and his abilities."
 
Though that doesn't really point to setting. 
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that the key difference between "here are some factoids" and full-fledged settings is that it was forty years ago, it was new and exciting, and we just let our imaginations and hearts run away with assumed details in a way that for some weird reason we flat out refuse to do today. 
 
Still, I did enjoy both of those games, and to some extent, Boot Hill.  The only game more lethal than Paranoia.  Ha! 
 
 
 
 

Maybe call it Champions: Year One to make it reminiscent of some comic titles that came out with that naming scheme.

Maybe call it Champions: Year One to make it reminiscent of some comic titles that came out with that naming scheme.

Maybe call it Champions: Year One to make it reminiscent of some comic titles that came out with that naming scheme.

Maybe call it Champions: Year One to make it reminiscent of some comic titles that came out with that naming scheme.

Yes!
 
Sure, Champions needs adventures and promotion, but it also needs more support for GMs and players new to the system. The game would benefit from less specificity and more guidelines, advice, and examples of play, IMO.
 
Champions Begins is a good start that deserves to be built upon with more about what I'd call the "philosophy of play" and a broader examination of successful strategies for running HERO in different ways to support specific campaign types, playstyles, etc.
 
I wonder if we could pull some of the great stuff from Champions Now, Strikeforce, old issues of AC/Haymaker/Digital Hero, the existing advice in the various core rulesets, etc. and assemble a reasonable guide for running the game that would help out those new to it.
 
How to make a gritty street campaign feel like a gritty street campaign. How to do the same for golden age, silver age, bronze age, underground, indie, etc. campaigns.
 
"How I learned to stop wearing out the rulebook at the table and rediscovered the joy of running a great session for my friends."
 
"One weird trick to shrink those unsightly two-page character statblocks down to a georgeous index card that's ready for sun and fun at the beach!"
Or, for a more modern take, "One weird trick that lets you slim your character down to a single phone screen, ready to adventure anywhere!"