eepjr24

Not sure what to do if you think that is problematic. MP and VPP are both frameworks, so the same rules for what go in each apply to both. I guess if you wanted you could buy them as Naked Advantages and apply Unified Power to them? Or you could go the variable advantage route, but you start to hit campaign limits really quickly that way. - E

Good catch. That would change the slot AP to 24, but still slot cost of 2. You could only use 1d6 of Drain with it (non-autofire of course). - E

6e1, 314 HeroDesigner should allow it. And the same rule applies to VPP's, so no difference there. - E

Looks like a stylized Shuang Yue or Ba Gua knife. - E

Are you married to the VPP concept? Because I find it generally much easier and cheaper to talk to your GM and let him know you'd like to go that route eventually but start it with a MP instead to get everyone used to the swapping, etc. VPP are a lot of book keeping during the game and doing it with an MP will get you into the groove and ease the transition for later. I'd probably put -1/4 on the whole MP as "No ranged attacks except RBS on STR". Mostly because I tend to find bricks looking to throw things and not being able to do their signature stuff when they throw things is an "Awwww" moment. If you start out assuming something like 50 STR and you want to be able to apply +1/2 in advantages. Simplest way is Variable Advantages, which would cost 50 points but not give you the versatility of being able to use drains, etc. So if we go with: Brick Tricks, 37 Point Pool, No ranged attacks except RBS on STR (-1/4), 30 RP 2 (f) "Triple Threat" Autofire [3 shots] on 50 STR at 0 End, 18 AP 4 (v) "Rattle 'Em" 3d6 CON Drain, 1/2 End, 37 AP, No range (-1/2) Linked to STR (-1/2) 18 RP [12 pool points per die] 2 (f) "Armor? What Armor?" Armor Piercing on 50 STR at 0 END, 18 AP 2 (v) "Negate This!" 6 levels of Reduced Physical Damage Negation on STR, 12 AP [2 pool points per die] This is just a small set for a starting character. You could combine the negation with any of the other three or you could add a die of "Rattle 'Em" and 3 dice of reduced negation to either of the other two slots. Adding another slot or two is trivial and can cost as little as 1 XP to do, giving you more options each time (AoE: Radius, AoE: Line, Penetrating, Affects Desolid, etc). A similar VPP would cost twice as much, but allow you to stack a number of these together more easily. 38 Control (Change Between Scenes, Slightly limited power set, -1/2) 13 RP, 66 Pool Total: 79 RP Now, there are ways to reduce the VPP real points needed with limitations, etc. But it makes the power creation much more complex at the start and until you are very familiar with how Naked Power Advantages and pools work, it's better to start simple, IMO. - E

I don't do 3d printing, but I do enjoy making scenery from Hirst Arts blocks that I cast.

In 4e, HtH Attack cost 3 points with a minimum of 2d6. 4e, 73. Okay, I am not understanding something you are saying here. +1 DC for martial arts = 4 points 1d6 HtH Attack = 5 AP plus -1/4 limitation 4 RP Differences: DC is for martial maneuvers only, which must be purchased individually. HtH attack can be used with or without regular combat maneuvers, must use 1/2 d6 of STR. DC does not cost END. HtH attack costs END. DC cannot be limited without GM permission. HtH attack is a power and can be limited normally. DC cannot be in a power framework without GM permission. HtH attack can be placed in frameworks normally. So out of the gate, I first have to spend 10 points on martial arts to even buy DC. So 14 points for the first DC usable with 3 maneuvers. For 12 points I get +3d6 HtH Attack. Costs endurance, but I can put it in a framework, make it conditional, etc. About even to me, but reasonable people can disagree and players have the choice to pick whichever they like. As to your point on CSL's, they would require GM permission to limit. But lets say the GM let you. And let's further postulate that the 3 pieces of the CSL (OCV, DCV and adding damage) are all equal in value. Limited Power suggests (6e1, 382) that -1 1/2 would be about right for a limitation that removes 2/3rds of the function, so for 2x 5 point levels that would be 4 points, whether they were martial or non-martial, somthing more than 3 maneuvers but less than All HTH (which are 8 point levels). However, as you note below, "Only to increase damage" for skill levels is actually rated at -1/2 in 6e1, 447. Yes, they work out slightly different from a math perspective and again have slightly different effects regarding additional limitations, power frameworks, etc. Yes. As noted in the description, Weaponmaster is intended primarily for Heroic campaigns where HKA's cost zero character points generally. So I think it is fair that adding damage to those should be more costly than than to something the player paid points for. Again, I can see where others might not agree with the costing, but for their games they can change it as always. After they paid for the martial maneuvers, yes. Note that they are getting the weapon damage for free, just like everyone else in a Heroic game. We can agree to disagree here, it seems. They are not priced mathematically evenly and try to take into account a variety of genre, situational and game mechanics. But I think short of splitting the genres it's a pretty good balance (which I am not in favor of generally, but would be fine with optional rules that represent them). And as always, we are welcome to tweak the things we don't like. - E

Just a couple notes, for a more clear comparison. Others probably apply to the 40 point MP, but I figure this is enough to show the nuance. 6e1, 398. A character cannot use STR bought as a slot in one Power Framework (or the STR obtained from Density Increase or Growth bought as a slot) to add damage to an HA or HKA bought as a slot in the same or another Power Framework. You have to define the NND type at power creation, so you could have a Nerve Strike. Or you could define it as a "Choke Hold" and multiple attack with a grab for it, but you would be at -1 OCV, -2 DCV plus the multiple attack penalties. Whichever NND you choose would do 1d6 plus STR. The martial one does 2d6 plus STR. Disarm has a -2 OCV as a base maneuver, so you would be +10 STR for disarm, but -2 OCV. Honestly, even with all that I think you come out close to even. The martial artist is more combat effective for a given set of maneuvers especially if you take into account the ability to buy DC's at 4 points each which apply to either STR or damage. The multipower can add other elements at reduced cost and is more versatile in a variety of situations. - E

I don't know how nasty you want to make him, but here are a few ideas. Make the chainsaw drones a Constant penetrating HKA (they latch on and just keep cutting). Give him a damage shield with the chainsaw that requires a to hit roll (as you hit him he hits you back). Add variable advantage to the chainsaw or a multipower to switch out from penetrating x2, AP, Extra HKA, Reduced Negation, RKA with indirect (he releases it and it flies out to attack and then returns to his hand), etc. Edit: To me, the electrical stuff is getting into Live Wire territory. - E

The only very minor quibble I have with Lucius' method (other than my earlier mentioned dislike of Time Limit in this situation, but that is just a personal preference thing) is that technically If you tried to fire it for 5 minutes after every hour you would run out of charges before the day was done, assuming a standard 24 hour day. If started at midnight: 12:00 Fire 15 charges remain 12:05 Rest 01:05 Fire 14 charges remain 01:10 Rest 02:10 Fire 13 charges remain 02:15 Rest 03:15 Fire 12 charges remain 03:25 Rest 04:25 Fire 11 charges remain 04:30 Rest 05:30 Fire 10 charges remain 05:35 Rest 06:35 Fire 9 charges remain 06:40 Rest 07:40 Fire 8 charges remain 07:45 Rest 08:45 Fire 7 charges remain 08:50 Rest 09:50 Fire 6 charges remain 09:55 Rest 10:55 Fire 5 charges remain 11:00 Rest 12:00 Fire 4 charges remain 12:05 Rest 13:05 Fire 3 charges remain 13:10 Rest 14:10 Fire 2 charges remain 14:15 Rest 15:15 Fire 1 charges remain 15:20 Rest 16:20 Fire 0 charges remain So you end up about 7 charges short. If you tweaked it to 32 charges it would work, cost 27 RP. The one I defined runs that without an OAF limitation.

Actually I think this one is pretty well supported by the rules. It says "Additional -1 to the Range Modifier (or, in the GM’s judgment, some other negative Combat Modifier)". The combat modifiers on 6e2 40 include both "Target an Area" and "Area of Effect Attack". I would certainly allow you to buy -N to hit a hex as a "illusory area displacement field" which randomly swaps around images of one area to another via an image projector. Remember, just because it says it uses images does not mean it needs to use the power. Probably best to buy it in a field around you with an AOE of 8 hexes or so. I think this does stray from the original point here though, that if the GM is wanting to work around your defenses and target your character specifically, it is trivial for them to do so since they have unlimited points and unlimited number of platforms to do so. AoE's are just one easy way, AVAD, NND, double (or more) increased KB, movement powers UAA, VPP's to customize attacks against a particular situation, massive flash attacks versus targeting senses also work and I could go on. - E

Not exactly the cheapest in raw dollars, but when you consider it is permanent, takes dry erase markers, etc. https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30353745/

This is one of those rare times when I don't like Time Limit as an advantage because you are actually paying more points for the ability to use something less. I'd probably do the custom limitation here or even just a side effect? It ends up being an over all -1/2 to the original AP, which seems fair to me. You could even argue the side effect should be -3/4 (RP of 22) since the "predefined damage" is actually just a standard result of the d6 rolls. 8d6 Blast, 40 AP, [Extreme Side Effect: 13d6 Drain of Blast (40 points of drain) occurs 5 minutes after first use since last side effect, Recover 5 AP per 7.5 minutes (+1.5), Power does not recover until all points are returned (+0), 325 AP, Predefined Damage, Set Effect] (-1/2) 27 RP - E

Hero points or luck points are popular. Leads are also fun (a buried treasure map, a clue to a piece of the characters background, one time hints dropped by an NPC, etc). An honorable enemy might be lenient on a hero who has been good to her word. A key to the city could be one for a large arc. A local guild / township / ruler might award titles that are locally useful ("Orc Slayer", "Holder of the Torch", "Ord's Herald", etc.). Perks are fun, perhaps earning a knighthood or the right to marry or the right to carry weapons in the city limits. You could create custom powers or talents that are available through award ONLY. Something like the Miraculous Survival from Killer Shrikes HtbM game. Or things like a free action card "One use only, take a free half phase action during a segment when you do not have a phase". You don't have to write the powers up. If you want real surprises, create a small deck of them and let the player choose at random. EDIT: Sorry, I just realized you posted this in the Champions thread, most of the ideas above were more fantasy oriented, but the last paragraph is universal and many of the other ideas are easily adapted. - E

That's the only thing in your comments that I disagree with (and disagreement is fine, it hopefully engenders careful thought). 😃 To me, a core mechanic is something that if you took it away, the outcomes in the game would change. If you remove the speed chart, if you get rid of defenses split into avoiding the hit and absorbing the damage, those are core mechanics. Counting the dice in a different manner that results in the same outcome.... not so much. - E

Primarily I would look to wind resistance. A falling person is likely trying to slow their fall or worst case flailing about a lot. The hero can stream line themselves for minimum wind resistance by assuming a divers position. If this is something the hero does on the regular, I would actually plot out what it takes and build a supplemental power, probably a small amount of flight, only downward, only to increase velocity, etc. - E

I finally got through all the posts in the thread. I will say that for people coming from roll 20 I flip the attack rolls as well as skill rolls. To them, OCV is just another number they add to their roll to see if they hit. The target number is 10+ DCV-OCV. In the roll under method we have two people with 4 OCV / 4 DVC. The roll target is 11-, with offensive skill levels increasing the number you need to roll under. In roll over it is 10+, with any skill levels just adding directly to your roll, like most players are used to. I know there are people that are out there saying "How hard is this??? Roll low for hits, high for damage!", but why? If it is easier for players, it can work either way. And I find that my players prefer to have higher rolls be good no matter what they are doing. It just intrinsically makes more sense to most people, more money = better, higher rolls = better, etc. Any system that flips that model tends to confuse people (Hero is definitely not the only example here, take a look at AWG for another big one).

I know I am not far into the thread, but wanted to comment here that we match on 2 and disagree on 1 and partly disagree on 1. It does not feel like Hero at all to me if you get rid of the Speed Chart, especially in higher end FH or over 250 pt Champions. And while I agree that the 3d6 bell curve is the bomb, I don't find "rolling under" to necessary for the system. I use roll over for folks with a background in d20 systems since it is more familiar. The results are the same, you just subtract from 21 and roll over that instead.

Absolutes are rough in Hero. I would take a look at my campaign and see what value I would assign to that. Generally, it would not be that high, but I would also look at things like: 1. Does this character or their teammates have a way to induce dizziness? 2. What exactly IS dizziness? Is it the same as vertigo? How about sea sickness? What about nausea more generally? Off the top of my head I would probably give it something like a 5-10 point value. In my life I have been dizzy more times than I have been oxygen deprived, even spending several months at a time on the ocean. And as mentioned above it would cover a large group of powers but only for a very narrow special effect. I would likely come in around 10 points for modern Champions type settings and 5 for Fantasy Hero type. - E

A few snips to give context: 6e2, 18 (emphasis mine) Summarizing, the four types are: Full Phase Actions, Half Phase Actions, Zero Phase Actions and Actions which take no time. 6e2, 18 again, Actions which take no time And finally, 6e2, 19 So your answer here is that they would end up in a contested DEX Roll. There is obviously room for some interpretation, for instance if the character was declaring the PRE attack in the segment BEFORE the phase in which the attack was supposed to occur. But at that point the two would really be unrelated since she would not know that an attack was being launched for sure. I think this is another minor way in which DEX does justify it's 2 point cost. As always, YMMV. - E

In FH I find it matters more, especially for more ranged types who don't want to get into HTH range. I have players that don't buy up Dex, but do buy up lightning reflexes with their primary attack. I also have players who have a character concept that has them as faster than most and prefer Dex and some LR. I don't find Dex overpriced, but I can see how some people might. I think if I was to implement initiative as a characteristic I would start it at zero and just use LR to buy it up, disconnecting from Dex completely. And since I have a lot of ex-DnD players, I'd probably make it added to a d6 roll, with ties broken by LR level and then GM decision. - E

I did not rebuild them, but his points looked pretty much in line except for the 3 point thing. - E

6e Martial Arts, pg 92 The bold and size there are not my interpretation or emphasis, they appear that way in the book. So while each of us can do whatever we want in our own campaigns, the official rules do not allow it. Also, as far as I know there is no martial equivalent of the Flail element. While Bind is introduced as a zero point optional maneuver in FH 6e it does not add STR. Flail is not zero points in 6e FH, it is bought as a naked Indirect advantage with limitations for the weapon (6e FH, 193). - E

I might use some of these that were common in a particular genre or time period. Outside of a Marital Arts campaign they seem to be a bit overpowered for default maneuvers that you can add DC's and grouped CSL's to via martial arts (for which they have paid nothing?). Just to compare a few: Free Legsweep versus Trip standard maneuver: Trip is -1/-2. Legsweep is -0/-1. Both cause target to fall, Legsweep does strike damage as well. Free Shove versus Shove standard maneuver: Same except martial gains 10 STR for shove. Free Grappling Throw versus Throw standard maneuver: Same except martial gains +1d6 to damage. Also, Killing Strike versus Killing Throw: Why are these the same penalties with different effects? Another one that seems too easy is Weapon Bind, I have friends who do various types of martial combat tell me this is a pretty difficult maneuver to pull off against an opponent of similar experience. -2 DCV does not make it seem difficult at all. In any case, these seem to be generally better than the standard combat maneuvers which are the default, it's good to see the variety but I would not make them defaults. I realize these are completely optional in any case since they violate the standard rules for creating martial maneuvers (minimum 3 point cost), just wanted to caution others who might not have the Martial Arts source books. - E