Chris Goodwin

Re: What are basing it off though? Names and/or personalities. People should be written up as actual superheroes -- forgot that part. And they have to be full writeups, too.

I just had what I thought was a cute idea. Anyone who wants to be written up, post here. Anyone who wants to take a shot at writing us up, do so and post your results. Use standard superheroes; 200 + 150, 50 max disads per category. No writing yourself up. And remember, this is all in fun! Who's in?

If you want to use Multiform with Variable Result (+1/2) from first edition Fantasy Hero, that would work, along with a NCC (-1 at least) to say that he can't control what he changes into. Add Accidental Change, When Asleep, and Life Support to only have to sleep about once every few weeks. He can extend his non-sleeping time with speed, but it will eventually catch up to him.

Re: Now THESE sound tough to stat out! XDM, UAA, to the "absorbed" dimension. Aid to his own Powers based on the number of people absorbed, or perhaps just +X points to his Powers based on the number of people. Missile Deflection, Linked to XDM on one of the absorbed people back to this dimension. SFX is that poor bastard takes the damage. A very large Transform, Target's Mind (perhaps Mind+Soul) to Doro's Mind (etc.), Side Effects: Current Body Dies.

13d6+1 Killing Attack NND, Does Body (defense is CON roll) Standard Effect Hit target with this. If he has 20 BODY or less, and misses his CON roll, he dies.

Or "Lifesaving"

No problem! Not a bad thing. Now that I think about it, S. John Ross wrote in a posting on RPG.net that he had picked up FREd and was sort of overwhelmed by the sheer size of it, until he picked up his old copy of Danger International. Understanding that there were differences between editions, he was able to relearn the basics of the Hero System through the smaller book, which gave him a good basis for going back to 5th Edition. So, if you can find a copy of 3rd edition, that actually might not be a bad way to go about it, keeping in mind that there are many differences between the editions. I'd again advise that if you're going to do that, stick with 5th Edition costs for Powers, Skills, and such; you might pick up the GM Resource Kit because it has all of that stuff in a much smaller package.

The basics of martial arts were that you paid points equal to your STR for a single skill called Martial Arts. You got five maneuvers with it: Martial Punch, M. Kick, M. Grab, M. Throw, and M. Dodge. Grab, Throw, and Dodge worked like the current versions of those maneuvers. Punch did 1.5 times your STR damage and Kick did 2 times (I don't recall off the top of my head what the OCV and DCV modifiers were). You could pay half again your STR in points for an additional .5 times your STR damage, so that your Punch would do 2 times and kick 2.5 times your STR. As your STR got higher, Martial Arts in general became less efficient; I think 20-30 STR was about the most efficient it got.

I think I understand what you're saying. You're looking for a previous version of the Hero System that is optimized for superheroes. 3rd edition Champions was simpler than 4th and 5th, and probably about the furthest back you'd want to go. But... for the complete list of Powers and Disadvantages you'd want Champions II and Champions III, which were supplements. And there you've got three books, which about eats up any savings you've made by streamlining stuff. Not to mention that you're still missing stuff; those two books didn't add all of the Powers, Disads, extra rules, etc. that made it down this far. There were no fundamental changes between editions; at its heart it's the same system it was in first edition. And then the costs for Skills, Powers, and Disadvantages aren't the same. Especially Skills; those changed a lot between Champions and Justice, Inc. Top that all off by saying that 3rd edition Champions is really only more streamlined because it includes fewer rules. The "default" for Champions of no complex bleeding rules, no Hit Locations, no Impairing or Disabling wounds came about because those rules didn't exist in 3rd edition Champions; they came from the standalone Hero System games that came after. So, if you're looking for a book you can hand someone and get a streamlined Hero System, for teaching purposes or similar, 3rd edition Champions is it. Use the Skills, Powers, Modifiers, Frameworks, and Disadvantages from 5th edition. If you're looking for streamlined in play, just hacking out rules from 5th will do it. (Actually, if you wanted to port the 3rd edition Martial Arts rules over to 5th edition, that would streamline stuff by quite a bit. E-mail me privately if you decide to go that route.) Bottom line: The Hero System is really optimized for superheroes as is. That it ended up being useful for so much more, and that the core system has changed so little through five editions, is a testament to the foresight and design skills of the original Hero partners. If you want fewer options, just use fewer options in play, because using a previous edition of Champions is Hero 5th with fewer options, modulo the changes in Skills, Powers, Modifiers, Frameworks, and Disadvantages. Whew! Sorry, didn't mean for this to be an essay!

Half or less of the number you needed to hit is maximum damage. This used to be a standard rule for non-superheroic games; I don't think it has been "official" since 4th edition came out.

Re: SPEED Freaks Wow, dude. Why the insults? Who wants to have a higher Speed? The World's Fastest Man, that's who. Why shouldn't a character have a higher SPD if his concept calls for it? The original poster was talking about having the same SPD as everyone else, and about how it felt to be one SPD behind everyone else in the combat, and about how the SPD cap might be changing and, pretty much, a general dissatisfaction with the idea of SPD caps and a "SPD arms race" mentality.

Include the Incomplete Character rules!

True, true. Just make sure you have at least as much Running as your stall velocity.

The way I heard it, that's how it was supposed to be all along, and that's how the original Hero partners played it. Apparently someone forgot to actually put it in the book. I believe I got this from a conversation with Steve Long a couple of years ago.

First edition Fantasy Hero had an Advantage called Variable Result. It let you do things like change the allocation of PD and ED in Force Field, change the target of your Aid or Drain, etc. I used it on a Champions character with Multiform. This was under 3rd edition rules, my Multiform was something like 130 base points. So I ended up with the ability to basically be any 650 point character I could think of. The GM went with it, probably because it was a solo campaign. And I ended up sticking with one single form, a character that had a 300 point Variable Power Pool linked to Shapeshift.

Interestingly enough, apparently Bruce Harlick and Steve Peterson thought that too! Boy, they musta had egg on their faces....

I personally prefer the other way, basing it on mass; I guess it's from cutting my teeth on Robot Warriors. But that's me.

I thought this at first, but think on this: you can use your Flight while on the ground, and don't have to worry about falling if you're below your stall velocity.

And, following my own post up.... AlHazred, I apologize. I seem to have been a bit argumentative, which was not my intention, and I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Uhhh.... wow. I'm wrong. That's like a shift in my worldview. I'd always assumed that the vehicle's mass included stuff like the crew, some allowance for cargo, and so on.

Right; probably +2 or +3 STR would be enough for a pilot and passenger. I followed the link you posted and looked at the Military Flyer's stats, which is why I posted. Given TUV, I'd probably let someone fudge it by about 5 STR worth at most, otherwise I'd want to see extra STR; given the example of the aircraft carrier, I'd say buy enough Size to get it to 100 kilotons and take a Physical Limitation to represent additional loss of DCV due to size, etc. Actually, I'd question the need to buy enough Size to represent a 400 kiloton ship when the fully loaded vessel isn't going to exceed 90 kilotons. On the Flyer, I might go Size 3 to give a loaded mass of 800kg tops and fudge from there. If it matters, I assume that the mass you've gotten from Size is the final mass of the vehicle. I'm actually not wanting to argue your stats on it at all; we've got different assumptions of what the vehicle's stats represent, which is cool. Mainly, I'm working up, off and on, a set of house rules, at least mostly compatible with the default vehicle system, for tracking mass of crew, weapons, etc. a bit more closely. My thinking on vehicle rules, and my desire for more detail, is colored by Robot Warriors, which tracks mass more closely than do TUV and the Hero default vehicle rules. More later when I have more time.

FREd p. 314 and TUV p. 10 are a little unclear. Where it says: It's the "in addition to its own mass" part that's throwing me. Does a vehicle's own mass count against what it can carry with its STR? In other words, can a vehicle with no extra STR over its mass carry anything more? For example, can a Size 2 vehicle (STR 20, mass 400kg) carry an additional 400kg, or is it limited to the 400kg from its STR? Later on TUV p. 10 it seems to indicate that it would be limited to its STR; specifically, the passage "Generally, a vehicle loaded with more weight than its STR can lift cannot move..." would indicate that it is limited to its STR (barring the exceptions listed on TUV p. 10).

That's never been my understanding, and I've never seen any vehicle writeups that would reflect that. I've extrapolated it from the general idea that a character whose mass is greater than his STR has to push his STR to move, and the fact that a character's STR is the amount he can basically get off the ground and stagger a step or two with before having to put it back down (FREd p. 20). Ummm...now that I think about it I've never seen where it says one way or the other (FREd p. 314 is a little unclear to me). Posting on rules questions..... Edit: TUV p. 10 sez "Generally, a vehicle loaded with more weight than its STR can lift cannot move..." I've got a rules question posted on this.

Just so you know...a vehicle of Size 7 has a mass of 12.5 tons...its STR can't lift its mass, therefore it can't move. I'd make it Size 2 with perhaps +5 STR to lift the pilot and a Physical Limitation to represent its awkward size (wingspan and length). Otherwise, looks good.

I've occasionally thought about house ruling that all noncombat skills (except for maybe Stealth, Climbing, Disguise, one or two others) are 2 for base and 1 for +1, and make all background skills based on a CHA.