Chris Goodwin

A bit more on topic   While I'm not any of the board admins, I can't imagine there being any harm at all in asking someone to write such a supplement.  
 
A couple of the 4th edition Dark Champions books have some info about supers and the law (Dark Champions, Justice Not Law), and they're available in PDF from the Hero Games store.  I don't have the 5th edition Dark Champions in PDF, but I'm sure that information is in there as well.  I have both the 4th and 5th edition Dark Champions in hardcopy; I can bring them to the next session if you want to borrow them.
 
I've bought a lot of GURPS supplements over the years, partly because they're usually well researched and quite usable with Hero.  There's a GURPS Cops supplement which would probably prove helpful.  I don't believe I have that one or I'd bring it as well.

But... but... why would the police ever do such a terrible thing?  Arrest a hero?  For what?  Whatever she -- I mean, they -- did, there must have been a good reason...

I don't know, maybe shooting a police office (almost killing him) in the back in front of the SWAT team might be considered a bit hostile.
I think something like this might require more PRIMUS involvement. 😁

Clearly, it would be a mistake.  I mean, the heiress to the name of a superhero family dating back generations couldn't possibly do anything that would put law enforcement in a position to question her... I mean, their integrity, right? 😋
 
It was a hypothetical question that might be useful in such a supplement for some GMs, I think. 😁

Something in the title of this thread spoke to me.
    My history with Champions is so bound up with my real life that one couldn’t exist without the other.  Around 35 years or so ago  I was a guy in my 20’s and a girl I liked said “you like comics, I play a game that’s kind of a D&D for comic books.”  “Come see if you like it.”  So I went.  If she said  “Hey, every Saturday night we cut off our own heads, wanna come along?”  I would have gone.  I knew a couple of the people vaguely and I did have fun. The next two decades or so just kind of flew by.
  Some of that group and others that I met along the way became the best friends I’ve ever known. Others became enemies.  A very few are closer to me than my own brothers. I became Godfather to the children of the “kid” I first got to know when driving him in to Boston to play after inviting him to join our group. He’s a man now of course and a Captain of Firefighters. (a REAL Hero)  He met the lovely woman who would become his wife over a Champions game.
   The games came and went. GM’s and players did the same. Some friends have passed away, and when we remember them we always end up saying that they’ve just gone ahead to save us the “good table” in a room with a blackboard to put up a Dex Chart.
   Time and circumstance has spread us across the map although we stay in pretty constant touch. And I myself haven’t picked up a set of dice in a decade or more, but I think about those days often. Times both spent at the Game table and away, love and laughs and inside jokes we now have to clean up so we can explain them to the kids.
   Thinking about the title of this thread made me want to say to those who created this sometimes silly game and may have thought this a small accomplishment in a big world....Thank You for what it’s meant to the life of just this one player. 

I was introduced to Heroes way back in 3rd edition when a friend of mine was running a Heroic level campaign based on Star Wars. Since then I fell in love with the system.
 
Then in 2004, I found myself playing a little MMO called City of Heroes. Since that time, I wanted to set up a campaign based on CoH using Heroes. But I never found the right group who was willing to play in this type of setting. Now, the group that I’m in are willing to try (currently playing Starfinders with a bit of Scion thrown in) playing this system. (One player already made his character)
 
So I’m excited to see how my two great Super Hero loves is going to work 

There's no reason at all, regardless of what edition you're playing, that a GM can't import a particular rule or power from a different edition.  Instant Change for later editions or Change Environment for earlier ones are pretty obvious choices to me, for example.  
 

But... but... why would the police ever do such a terrible thing?  Arrest a hero?  For what?  Whatever she -- I mean, they -- did, there must have been a good reason...

For the intrepid game designers in the community, I wanted to make a request for a Hall of Champions submission.
 
One thing that helps me as a less experienced GM is the ability to use pre-generated NPCs and basic environmental settings.  It's nice to be able to grab a few villains from the book, but also be able to grab a few normal NPCs that can be weaved into a story on the fly.
 
To that end, I was hope to suggest a submission for the Hall of Champions store.  Law Enforcement: The Sourcebook
 
I would love to have a book that delves into Law Enforcement and how to insert it into an encounter, adventure, or campaign. 
 
Whether it is Champions, Dark Champions, Fantasy Hero, or Star Hero, every setting has a local constable, police force, or elite royal guard.  Thus, the book would contain information on the makeup of local law enforcement, their general operating procedures, how they enforce the laws of the land, and how they might interact with a group of sanctioned heroes, rogue vigilantes, anti-heroes, and normal citizens.  How do the police handle living in a land where superheroes have been around for decades or caped heroes are new to the world?  How does the veteran beat cop feel about meddling heroes?  How about the rookie?  The precinct captain might have some words, good or bad.  And how about the Commissioner?  In the stars, how would a lone space ranger handle a group of vigilantes? What about Sector Command?
 
What do local law enforcement do when they apprehend a super powered villain?  How about when the heroes are arrested? 
 
The book might also have a few generic officer templates to use in a pinch.  The buddy cops who always seem to be partners.  The patrol sergeant who is first on the scene to take command.  The detective who keeps asking the heroes questions after an encounter.  The rookie fresh out of the academy.  Maybe even a cop with special abilities, themselves.
 
Lastly, a basic map of a police station, County jail, bank, and other places we might find cops or robbers would be helpful.
 
I don't know if it's improper to make these sort of suggestions, but I wanted to throw one out that would benefit not only my game, but those of other GMs.
 
Thank you for listening!
 
 - Chris

This is, as far I know (I don't use multiform.  I _did_, back when 4e gave it to us,  and we tried it again when 5e changed who paid for what, but we were happier with what we'd been doing prior to 4e, so we just sort of dropped it and went back), the book-legal method of rewarding XP to alternate forms and to Duplicates.
 
I'm just throwing this out there as a for-what-it's worth:
 
I'm assuming, since it's Cassandra, that this is for 5e.  When I awarded XP, I awarded it broken down (as best as possible) to the forms that earned it:  Which form defeated the small army of powerful agents?  Which form figured out the puzzle prematurely and short-cutted the game into a session I had planned for next month?  That sort of thing).
 
If the player wanted to pull the points from one form and spend them on his "base" or a different alternate form, then he did so at 5/1.  Spending them on the form that earned them, though, was perfectly acceptable.
 
This rule was instituted mostly because I had a player going nutty with _one_ particular alternate form, and he was really raping the one-for-five rule, touching campaign limits _months_ ahead of the rest of the group.   Ruling that pulling EP from an alternate reversed the math seemed to slow it down considerably.  And yes: it stands to reason that spending that one point on a different form would spring it right down the one-for-five expressway.  I didn't allow it to.
 
No; I'm not saying this is "right," but it's a tool to be aware of if you have problems with abuse of the power itself.
 
 

It's the little things, isn't it?  You don't really notice how something _feels_ until it's been changed in a "inconsequential to the math" kind of way.  You know: _technically_ no change, but the feeling is _gone_....
 
And hey!
 
Someone _please_ remind me to Rep Scott when I've got more to give!
 
_Awesome_ idea!  
 
EDIT:  Finally managed to tag Scott

Thank you.  A thousand times, thank you.  This has bugged me too, ever since.  I pulled hard for "decoupling" but wasn't thinking it would extend there.  
 
So, count me in.

Thank you.  A thousand times, thank you.  This has bugged me too, ever since.  I pulled hard for "decoupling" but wasn't thinking it would extend there.  
 
So, count me in.

See?  This is why there will never be a "perfect" or flawless edition of HERO:  we _all_ (on this board or not; it makes no difference) have different-- slightly? Radically?  "YES!" to all! -- different ideas about what is or is not "fundamentally HERO." 
 
That mechanic that you're wanting to remove?  That was the hook for me: that's the moment I knew there was something awesome under the hood of that little blue book with the boring superfight on the cover.   I understood it immediately, and I _loved_ it! 
 
Until Champions, I played either Traveller or D&D (Mostly because that's what there was back then, unless you were living in California and attending Cons to check out all the people peddling the home brews) 
 
 
No more "Roll your shoot this gun" skill to hit. No more "because he rolled his skill; that's why you're dead!". No more bulky armor makes you harder to hit. ". (dont; don't waste your breath: I'll be sixty in a couple of months.  I know damned good and well all the justifications about" but THAC0 doesn't mean they missed!  It means that you didn't take damage!  They might have been just whaling on that armor like a drum line! ". It stops holding water when that same extra-xumbersome armor makes it easier for me to hit the naked guy. 
 
And best of all, no more" okay, the wizard hits you with lightning!  Roll to not get hit! "
 
Wait; what? 
 
Saving throw!" 
 
Are you flickin' kidding me?  He hit me, fair and square; we saw it; you declared it.  Now I roll to not get hit?  
 
Well, to see if you took any damage, then. 
 
Why can't we roll the damage?  I've got some _great_ armor. 
 
Yeah, but that's not how it works. 
 
Excuse me? 
 
Armor doesn't protect you; it makes you harder to hit. 
 
What?  But you just said-
 
Well, yeah, but it boils down to the same thing.  Now roll to not get hit. 
 
. Yep.  Don't miss that crap _one bit_. 
 
I absolutely _loved_ (and still do) the idea that my natural Dex let me jockey for a good strike posture or to jerk aside and duck and weave, and that my skills (levels) could unbalance the odds.  I loved that there was a separate to-hit mechanic for things that are _not_ based on physical attacks (ECV, though later as we explored different themes and genres, we would expand on that). 
 
Are there other things that I like?  Oh, you betcha!  But if someone told me to pick the very best thing about HERO, that would be it.  Truth be told, and "point balance" be _damned_, the one thing I hate above all others in 6e is the divorcing of those CVs from their parent characteristics.  Do they work the same?  Yeah: math is math.  But I don't play recreational math; I play to create a story with my friends, to stir action excitement--to feel like something other than a powerless college kid or a rapidly-aging old man.  And that "liberation" of CV from parent characteristics liberated that wonderful and unique _feel_ right along with it. 
 
So no; I wouldn't get rid of that, not ever.  If I was going to change anything about that, it would be to change it back.  Seriously: there is a lot I don't like about 6e, but I can forgive it: all the editions are pretty much interchangeable anyway.  The only thing I can't forgive is that oft-applauded "advancement" that reads to me of little more than officially proclaiming that math is more important than the feel of the game ever should be. 
 
 
 
It already _is_ a skill contest; it's been simplified. 
 
However, to create a more skill-like mechanic, try this:
 
Create some Fight skills.  I'll keep it simple with two:
 
Fight: attack.and Fight:  defend. 
 
I'm not mocking, but without the character being active in his defense, you can't really replicate what makes Hero's combat unique. 
 
Attacker rolls his dice and succeeds by two. 
 
Defender rolls his dice and success by four.  Attacker fails. 
 
Or we can say attacker rolls his dice and success by six while defender succeeds by four again, and gets hit. 
 
If "shades" of victory are important, then subtract defender's success from attackers successes for that last round: attacker success by 2.  Or fails, or thee is a tie (wouldn't that be awkward?) 
 
What if you have a really wide difference in skill level, though?  It would become difficult if attacker had to roll 16 or under and defender had to roll four or under. 
 
At the end of the day, though, that's what the current method _does_, and it does it in one roll. 
 
Let's assume your attack skill is a Dex-based Skill (as CV used to be).  You've got a twenty Dex, right off you have a 14 or less roll, buy it up to 20 or less for next to nothing. 
 
Your defend skill is also 14 or less, etc. 
 
So you both succeed _a lot_, typically, and spend a lot of time subtracting your success from each other.  No biggee: it works fine. 
 
But it's not one quick roll. 
 
11 is the midpoint of results for 3d6.  It's also the thing you are most likely to roll, if you check every possible outcome. 
 
So start with a fight: attack skill dead-center at 11 or less.  That's what the 11 is for.  Then subtract his defend skill from your attack skill.  Roll that or less. 
 
It's beautiful in its simplicity.  I have no idea why the creator of it would want to change it, honestly, because not only does it handle a wide range of skill levels against each other, the built-in auto failure/auto success gives everyone a fighting chance.  But back on course:
You are essentially using "a skill type mechanic.". You're just skipping a coulle of tedious steps and keeping the game moving. 
 
I wouldn't change it for anything. 
 
 
 

I would do away with the generic rule set as presented. Tie the system into properties. Looking at the past, I'd rather see a Champions book marketed akin to 4e BBB, then have a fantasy book that ties in vague setting, as well as a sci-fi book, a new Justice Inc., Danger International, etc. The mechanics would be compatible with one another, but like the older editions, there may be some genre rules that are specific to that rulebook.  I believe this might make the game more attractive, particularly with some nice art and a solid design specific to that book. 
 
In addition, I would get rid of the "you can build everything" mentality. Do we really need to build a cellphone to use it? Couldn't it just provide a bonus and a radio without breaking down every point? 

It totally is.  I linked it above. 
 
I'm poking around the boards looking for other threads where we might have discussed mecha.  Here's what I'm finding: 
https://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/17725-robot-warriors-sample-mecha/ - started by me, some years ago.  Duke, there's some technobabble there, so I think you'll get a kick out of it.    The stats are for Robot Warriors, which means they'll largely be recognizable if all you have is 5th or 6th edition. https://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/23569-roman-mecha-your-comments-please/  - alternate universe Roman mecha (5th edition) https://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/2724-gundam-wing-mecha-stats/ - some Gundam Wing stats (5th edition) http://web.archive.org/web/20080128152013/http://www.starherofandom.com/h_robotech/index.php - some Robotech writeups found on the Wayback Machine https://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/39012-battletech-hex-hero-hex-mphkph-spd-mvnt/ - a thread here at the forums discussing converting Battletech movement rates to Hero http://mattcave.fcpages.com/champions.html - Mathew Ignash has a lot of writeups here, mostly from 4th edition, not too different from 5th.  You can find writeups for Transformers, Robotech mecha, and maybe more.   There've been quite a lot of others over the years, but many have succumbed to link rot, both within the boards and without.  The ones above I've at least looked at to confirm there's something there.

Okay, I had a sudden rush of inspiration and had to write up this character.
 
He was fresh out of the Academy and on his way to fight evil in a distant sector of the galaxy. Suddenly, his ship became embroiled in a storm of gamma radiation and cosmic particles. He and his little transport were tossed to and fro, until he located a suitable planet to land on. Alas, the crash landing damaged the ship beyond his ability to repair it. But he quickly discovered and befriended some of the strange creatures who lived on the planet. He learned of their epic struggle against the forces of Evil, and he knew what he must do. He joined the battle on the side of Good, and to this day he fights as....
 
 

One of my pipe-dream projects was to take the Champions 3rd edition corebook, plus Champions II and III supplements, and organize them into one book.  Just the rules that were in those books, nothing added from the standalone games, no rules changes, and print it up for myself as "Champions Pi", for the 3.14 edition.   

If you recall, though, it wasn't all.  The Champions 1st-3rd edition corebooks were incomplete, even for Champions.  The Champions II and Champions III supplements added stuff: vehicles, bases, computers/AI, danger rooms, agents; additional Combat Maneuvers, Skills, Powers, Disadvantages.  For instance: Images (Light Illusions), Absorption, Reflection, Transform, Suppress (Neutralization), Damage Reduction, Multiform, Shapeshift, Variable Power Pools; Accidental Change, Dependency; Dive For Cover, Pulling your Punch, Roll With Punch, Coordinating Attacks; all of those appeared in the supplements, and not in any of the 1st-3rd ed core rules.  The corebooks had 12 Skills; Champions II added a bunch in from Espionage!, but not all of them, and the other standalone games had their own lists.  The standalone games used Hit Locations, Impairing/Disabling, advanced Bleeding, advanced firearms rules and lists (the Champions corebooks had things like "Light Pistol: 1d6 RKA, 6 shots, OAF; Heavy Pistol: 2d6 RKA, 8 shots, OAF).  
 
4th edition was the first one that contained all of the rules.  

Well Hero coul re-release the First and/or second editions as a “Facsimile 40th Anniversary Edition ” with the book, map, dice and adventure included in a box, and that would serve to cover everything we have been thinking about. The summer of 2021 is a year and a half off, time to organize crowd funding with a big enough goal to print retail copies as well as cover the backers. 

If you recall, though, it wasn't all.  The Champions 1st-3rd edition corebooks were incomplete, even for Champions.  The Champions II and Champions III supplements added stuff: vehicles, bases, computers/AI, danger rooms, agents; additional Combat Maneuvers, Skills, Powers, Disadvantages.  For instance: Images (Light Illusions), Absorption, Reflection, Transform, Suppress (Neutralization), Damage Reduction, Multiform, Shapeshift, Variable Power Pools; Accidental Change, Dependency; Dive For Cover, Pulling your Punch, Roll With Punch, Coordinating Attacks; all of those appeared in the supplements, and not in any of the 1st-3rd ed core rules.  The corebooks had 12 Skills; Champions II added a bunch in from Espionage!, but not all of them, and the other standalone games had their own lists.  The standalone games used Hit Locations, Impairing/Disabling, advanced Bleeding, advanced firearms rules and lists (the Champions corebooks had things like "Light Pistol: 1d6 RKA, 6 shots, OAF; Heavy Pistol: 2d6 RKA, 8 shots, OAF).  
 
4th edition was the first one that contained all of the rules.  

I remember waiting for the different Champions books to come out.  Neither Champions II nor Champions III seemed to me to be advanced or optional, they were live additions to the core rulebook.  I remember us changing our characters to accomodate the expanded ruleset and I used the three books as a set.
 
I guess how I consider those rulebooks to be coloured by how I remember them when they were released - so many new things my characters could use and accomplish.
 
Doc

I have this one rulebook.  I can play a superhero game.  Using the same ruleset, I can play a fantasy game, or a science fiction game, or an old west game, and while I may want to choose different toggle options when putting the game together, I can look at the characters and know exactly what they can do.  I don't have to try to guess whether a special ability is going to balance with others, or whether it's going to break my game, and 99% of the time my assessment will be correct.  I can do all of that without having to learn a new ruleset, or even open a new sourcebook.  

Sure, our theoretical "get 'em rolling dice first", doesn't have to be -- and already isn't -- the only way into the system.  We have multiple points of entry that are an awful lot like walls, or at least briars and brambles, than open doors.  
 
It's not dumbing down the system.  It's not "basic Hero" to the big books' "advanced".  It would be 100% the HERO System, presented in a way that makes it easier to start chucking dice at the table.  That's all.
 
 
You don't start with the advanced concepts first.  If someone doesn't know how to cook, you start them out browning ground beef, not making a Yorkshire Pudding.  

I remember, my first few characters were pretty lightweight as far as modifiers went.  
 
Get people rolling dice, rolling against 11+OCV whichever way you compare it, counting BODY and STUN and so on.  Once they've got a few games under their belt, and have the context for all of this stuff, then let them start modifying their characters or making their own at their own pace.