Ura-Maru

Re: Naked Advantages in frameworks... I guess the real question is: Can you buy a slot in a multipower that’s only an ‘add on’ to another power that’s not in the multipower? 20 (20) Poorly Defined Ghost Mulitpower 2u (20) x8(more) Noncombat movement on flight 2u (20) Add Sight And Radar Groups to Invisiblity 2u (20) AP on Desolidification 2u (15) Affects Desolid on Ghost Blast EB 2u (20) +4d6 on Ghost Blast EB 2u (20) +20 Strength --- Obviously you can with some powers, like Running . . .

Re: Why is Strength so underpriced? Well, Strength, Dex, and to a (much) lesser extent Con. So two and a half stats, anyway. I’d actually mind everyone in a heroic game with a 20 Con less than I would 20 Str. Saying ‘everyone in fantasy novels is super strong’ is just not true. Pretty much every heroic character in genre fiction IS in very good shape, though, unless they have a plot reason not to. Except maybe in police procedurals, they’re always complaining that petty criminals are younger and fitter than they are. In heroic games, (which usually don’t use frameworks) this IS a fairly common problem, given the number of threads that pop up about it. ‘This could be better’ is not necessarily equivalent to ‘This is so broken the whole system doesn’t work.’ --- But apparently I’m a terrible, powergaming player, so what do I know?

Re: I Need Some Help With A Power Build You don’t need the ‘reset’ option for a one-shot bomb. That’s for powers you set once, and can go off again and again. (In this case, a ‘bomb’ that you could throw, reset, and make explode again from a distance) Do you want to have more than one ‘live’ at once? Technically, you need focus or charges to do that, but ‘can expire’ would be close enough for me. Check with you’re GM. You might want to use Time Delay instead of Trigger if you want a timed bomb. Triggers more flexible, though. Even if the special effect is timed explosions, it’s not unreasonable to buy a mental trigger, and say ‘I always set it for exactly the time I turn out to have needed.’ If you trust your GM, you could even take ‘Can misfire!’ on it, for when the situation changes in a way you couldn’t expect. In either case, Energy Blast, even one with explosion, is ALREADY a ranged power. So you don’t need a naked advantage for the launchers, you need to buy off the ‘Range Based off Str’ disadvantage through a focus. You use the amount of points you save in the main power as the base cost of the buy-off power. Like So: 64 (80) Time Bombs! 8d6 Energy Blast, Explosion (+1/2), Trigger: Mental Command, Takes No Time, Can Expire (+1/2), Range Based on Strength (-1/4) and 11 (16) Wrist Launchers Buying off Ranged Based on Strength for Time Bombs power, OIF (-1/2) And probably, depending on how stringent your GM is, 7 (20) Boom. Mind Link, up to 8 bombs at once, only to give ‘detonate’ commands to Time Bombs (-2) (The last can be made much cheaper by limiting the number of bombs you can make go off at once for one bomb, it’s only 2 points) The main problem with building it this way is now the bombs won’t go off if you’re knocked out or too distracted to give the ‘boom’ command. You add a second trigger (a specific time, set when the bomb is made, for an extra +1/4) --- “Are you a . . . superboomer?!â€

Re: Naked Advantages in frameworks... Strength/HA, is confusing the issue. The ‘multipower of naked advantages’ does save points with any other power, because you don’t have the free –1/2 disad on the power you’re using. 90 (90) Hot Blast Multipower 9u (90) Hot Piercing Blast 12d6 EB, AP (+1/2) 9u (90) Hot Curvy Blast 12d6 EB, Indirect (+1/2) 9u (90) Hot Explosive Blast 12d6 EB, Explosion (+1/2) 9u (90) Hot Easy Blast 12d6 EB, No End (+1/2) 126 points vs. 60 (60) Hot Blast 12d6 EB AND 30 (30) Hot, Naked Advantage* Multipower 3u (30) Piercing Blast, AP (+1/2) on 12d6 EB 3u (30) Curvy Blast, Indirect (+1/2) on 12d6 EB 3u (30) Explosive Blast, Explosion (+1/2) on 12d6 EB 3u (30) Easy Blast, No End (+1/2) on 12d6 EB 102 points And just for the record, 105 (105) Hot Multiblast12d6 EB, Variable Advantage: +1/2, limited (+3/4) Armor Piercing, No End, Explosion, Indirect Though once you go over +1/2 limited, Variable Advantage almost always costs more than using a multipower . . . You’re GM’s logic is, unless I’m mistaken: 1) This will set a precedent that a multipower of naked power advantages is OK. 2) There are some (read: Many) situations where a multipower of naked power advantages are NOT OK 3) There’s another way to do it, with near identical effects, that won’t cost the player any more points, So, 4) Why the heck is Bloodstone making my life difficult! I’m going to have the Scorpia torture his DNPC! * Yes, I did in fact write this whole thing just to set up that line. --- I’d be happy with a small adder, 5 pts, say, on a power that would let you use it without any advantages. That’s cheaper than making a 2 slot multipower, just so you don’t always have to use it when you don’t want to. (and I’m trying to use multipowers less) But there are some special effects, (missiles and grenades, say) where you don’t WANT to be able to turn it off. That removes the main complaint about naked advantages. Just require them to be bought with the adder cost. --- “Because you don’t know where the girl is, you can’t use the mega-smasher!â€

Re: Blazing six guns! I know what the advantage does . . . I just think it’s immoral. The proper way, in my mind, the way to handle ‘super accuracy’ is to make the character super accurate . . . that is, to buy skill levels to make the attack more accurate. Not to use an advantage to bypass the ‘hitting’ part of the system. I understand it’s a perfectly valid part of the game as written, and I’m not saying it’s unbalanced. I just don’t like it from a philosophical standpoint. --- “Raider is hit in the groin for 216 points of damage, bypassing his defenses.â€

Re: Diceless damage Right, you aim for unarmored areas. Since you’re almost certainly using a killing weapon, and most targets in Dark Champs, Star, or Fantasy Hero have no resistant defense on at least one location of their body, you effectively bypass almost all defenses. And since the hardest locations to armor are usually the best, damage wise, (eyes, neck) you’re almost always doing extra damage, too. 95% was an estimate. I don’t have any hard statistics to back it up. It’s better than CP2020’s “I AIM FOR THE HEAD!†system issue, but not much. This is mitigated a lot if you don’t allow ‘targeted shots’ and use the high-middle-low shot thing like prestidigitator is saying. Mekton had a nifty ‘called shot’ system where, basically, you chose which system you’d hit if you managed to get a critical, instead of rolling for it. So even if you were targeting the flight system, you could still hit the rest of the mech if you didn’t roll quite good enough. Not sure how you could bring that over, though. --- But you couldn’t target the ‘best’ system, the power plant, you could only get it randomly. So non-targeted shots still had their place.

Re: house rule for c.s.l. The example on 5ER pg 54 seems to say you can use the knife level for defense while you’re using a gun, if you’re ‘somehow using it,’ whatever that means. It also strongly implies that the defense you get from 3 point levels only applies vs. the same weapon you took the skill in. On page 53, it says flat out that if you want a bonus to both armed and unarmed strikes, say, you need to take a 3 point level in ‘All Strikes,’ and then contradicts this on the next page. Like I said, both vague and over-complicated. I miss the old days when 3 point levels couldn’t apply to defense. (Assuming it really did. That's the way we played it anyway) Unless you took it on Dodge. Or Dive for Cover. Ok, maybe it was just as complicated then . . . but my mind was younger and more flexable. Your explanation, (maneuver levels apply to maneuvers armed or unarmed, ‘weapon’ maneuvers apply to any maneuver with that weapon) seems as good a way to do it as any. Though it lets bricks get a pretty kickass combat suite for only 3 points each . . . --- Not to mention a 5 point level can give +1 to OECV/DECV . . . or just a +1 to DECV. The heck?

Re: Exponential "Cost" System Heh. I remember one homemade supers game I was a player in, about 10 years ago. First round of combat, I rolled a super-bad fumble, and ‘damaged’ one of my powers permanently. I then realized it would take more than 50 average sessions to buy back the damaged power to it’s original level. (It used a White-Wolf-esqe exponential buying system) The actual system went downhill from there. Fun game, though.

Re: Diceless damage Dream Pod 9’s excellent ‘Silhouette’ system uses something like this. Both sides roll their ‘attack,’ and the more you succeed buy, the more damage you do. That nicely includes both the ‘just nicked me’ and the ‘Use my skill to do more damage’ bits that are so hard for systems to get right. That being said, much as I like it, I’m not sure how you could bring the concept over without rewriting three quarters of the game . . . . . . Keep in mind, any game that uses hit locations ALREADY is rewarding high OCV, and far more than Sean Water’s proposal. That’s why I’m not a big fan of how Hero’s hit loc system works. As it is, High OCV is very good, but has a definite ‘diminishing returns’ point. If you add hit locations, the diminishing returns point vanishes. High OCV doubles your damage, and lets you bypass 95% of armor. --- The system is really good. As straightforward as most of the ‘simple’ systems like tri-stat, but with a surprising amount of depth.

Re: Best Way to Simulate a Thrown Hammer? Didn’t think of the ‘environmental effects’ angle. I can buy it as sort of a combo of a bunch of little limitations that aren’t worth enough by themselves, like the old ‘blade’ limitation. As long as it doesn’t show up with ‘Gestures: Throw Hammer!’ or the -1/4 version of Restrainable. --- No fair. You can have stabbity death, but apparently not sma****y death. That’s religious discrimination!

Re: Best Way to Simulate a Thrown Hammer? 24 (60) Hammer of DOOM 60 Point Mulitipower, OAF (-1), HA Limitation (-1/2) 2u (60) Sma****y Death!8d6 HA, No End (+1/2) 1u (60) Flying Sma****y Death! 8d6 HA, Ranged (+1/2), 1 Recoverable Charge (), Lockout (-1/2) Isn't that nicer? ‘Range Based on Strength’ is a gimme in the best of times, but a strength based god in a 600 point campaign is going to have a ‘throwing distance’ of FARTHER than the range would otherwise be. That’s not a limitation. --- “When I rub it, it gets bigger!â€

Re: New Powers Exert Type: Standard Power/Attack Power Duration: Instant/Constant Costs End: Yes Cost: 5 or 10 points for every 5 points of Exert Exert is a more limited, but less restricted, form of Strength. It is a Power, not a Characteristic, and can be freely used in power frameworks. For five points, a character may buy five points of Exert. In its standard form, Exert can be added to Strength for the purposes of lifting heavy objects, escaping from grabs or entangles, or holding on to things. It can NOT be used to do damage, even with throwing or crushing. For 10 points, a character can buy 5 points of Full Exert, which can be used in any way strength can be used, including punching, crushing, or throwing. Limitations: ‘Trained Strength’ (-1/2): With this limitation, Exert can only be used to Grab and escape from Grabs (including some entangles) --- Basically, a form of STR that you can put in a multipower without feeling guilty, and eliminates quibbling over weather ‘Only to escape from grabs’ is worth –3/4 or -1. Maybe with a ‘ranged’ form to make ranged trips, disarms, and so on. Could be easily adapted to the other ‘problem’ stats, as well.

Re: New Powers Actually, I’d like to see MORE of this. But not with dice involved. --- Wait. Maybe I’d just better shut up now.

Re: It Costs Too Much! Yeah, requiring the ‘stopped by Not Affected By Poisons’ disad for chemical attacks is probably the best way to go. One thing I liked about the ‘old way’ of using Body Drain for deadly poisons and the like, is that all drugs and poisons worked pretty much the same. Wait. Stun gas grenades were always NND EB. Ok, ALMOST all chemical attacks. But a NND EB and a Stun Drain cost the same, so it’s easy to switch over. Actually, I used to require all Power Defense be bought with a -1/2 ‘special effect’ limitation. Only vs drugs/posions, only vs. magic, like that. Because otherwise, it doesn’t really have a meaningful ‘special effect,’ beyond ‘I really hate being hit by oddball special attacks!’ Mages being resistant to having their souls sucked out or being transformed into frogs makes sense, having them be resistant to anesthetic gas really doesn’t. You’re right about Binary Man. In retrospect, my complaint was more ‘Aid shouldn’t be used for this’ than ‘Aid is too expensive.’ --- While I thought the characters in Champions Universe were among the best in the Champs Universe, I had a problem with pretty much every build in the book . . . I mean, an active duty military super, who fought in two wars, with a 20 pt CVK?

Re: house rule for c.s.l. Actually, thinking about this more, I like it better. Which is something I often don’t get with my own ideas. There’s sort of a nice symmetry to it. You can get up to 10 OCV by Dex alone, (with a 30 ‘max human’ bar) and up to +10 from skill. (20 OCV is too high, but that’s a separate problem altogether) Plus, it answers the ‘So, how many skill levels does the best swordsman in the world have?’ question nicely. 56 points seems about right to be ‘Grand Master.’ And it only cost 4 more points to ‘master’ a related weapon (2 more 2 pt levels, assuming the 3 point ones stack) But that reaches the point of diminishing returns quickly, so most warrior types will have one or two weapons they’re best with. Yeah, I think I like this. --- “It is Ape Law!!â€

Re: house rule for c.s.l. I hate to dogpile, but I'm afriad I have to agree with the ‘Wait, you want to make Dex EVEN BETTER!?’ crowd. Instead of that, how about only allowing, say two levels of any CSL? That is, you can buy 2 2 point levels, 2 3 point levels, and 2 five point levels, but you can’t just buy 6 2 point levels. I’m not sure of the details, I haven’t crunched the numbers yet. But it seems that would cut down on the ’+5 to my OCV for 10 points!’ problem. Plus, it makes a certain amount of sense . . . first you learn the basics, but you can only get so much better at ‘the basics’ without spending time to learn the rest of the art, too. Swordsman guy is great with a sword, good with an axe, and not bad with his bare hands. --- I’m not sure I like how 2 and 3 point skill levels interact with weapons, anyway. If you have +2 with Strike, Block, and Grab, can you use a sword for the Strike and Block maneuvers? And don’t get me started on ‘3 point knife skill levels can be used for defense if someone attacks you with a knife while you’re shooting!’ Which somehow manages to be overcomplicated and too simplistic at the same time. This version of this post has been edited to fit your screen, and for wierd doubled-up sentences.

Re: Exponential "Cost" System I see the appeal of something like this, but I don’t think that’s the right way to handle it. (Nor do I subscribe to the ‘5 points doubles everything’ theory’) One consistent problem with dealing with the ‘added powers’ issue, is that either 1) all the powers individually must be tiny, or the final power is way, way, too big. Example: Cap’s shield. A normal shield bash is what, +2d6 HA? This is a super-mega-indestructible shield, so it should be worth more, right? So, +4d6, say. Now, if Cap’s a good martial artist, and he is, his MA should be floating around campaign average. So you get a 12d6 base. The common way to deal with this, is to kick down the attack value of the shield, but that means when the Taskmaster runs off with it, it’s suddenly made of Balsa Wood. Now, there are a few other ways to fake it, like buying the shield as a big HA and buying Cap’s MA without the ‘use art with shield,’ or buying the shield as a Limited Advantage, (usually AP) but those are kludges. The problem works the other way, too. Punching Man’s ‘Big Iron Gauntlets!’ shouldn’t do the same extra damage when a real brick puts them on. Just because they can boost a normal to 8d6, doesn’t mean they should boost a super to 16d6. Obviously, you can (and should) just handwave it. Caps shield is only +1d6 for him, but +6d6 for a normal, and like that. But it would be nice if there was some system-based solution, as long as it didn’t add too much complication. --- Why the heck do I always spell it ‘Iorn?’

Re: It Costs Too Much! But it’s not the ‘use one end per phase’ interval that kills you when you’re drowning, it’s the fact you’re using End otherwise trying to escape drowning. The only time that particular area of life support comes up is when you are sitting there, doing nothing at all, waiting to be rescued. It’s obvious ‘intended use’ is for sea mammals and the like, but it’s useless to them. It does nothing to help you if you want to, say, swim down and catch a tasty fish, because you’re using End by Swimming. A recoverable charge on No Need To Breath works pretty well for this type of thing, though, as does an End Reserve. So I guess this is more ‘This power is terribly designed!’ than ‘This power costs too much!’ “I don’t think X is used enough†!= “X is not used at all.†Yes, I use psychological advantages. And yes, Ego can be used to bypass them. When appropriate. If that’s used too often, psych lims lose most of their punch. And, for the record, when I was running I’d require extra Ego checks all the time, for all sorts of things, superheroic pushing included. But that was stuff I added in, precisely because I thought that willpower was underused in the core system. Saying ‘Well, you can use it for additional things!’ is agreeing with my point, not arguing it. Because mental combat is much less common than non-mental combat. Mental Defense costs half as much, and is much better at stopping mental attacks, if that’s your goal. Mentalists have real problems against anyone with any mental defenses at all. Though mitigated somewhat by how useful Mental Illusions and Mind Control can be out of combat. I don’t have an easy solution, though . . . things that go against non-standard defenses should be easier to stop when going against people who have them. Anyway, none of this is germaine to most fantasy, SF, and DC games, where mental attacks are rare, if not non-existant. For the record, I don’t really like all ‘mentalist’ stuff being crammed under one stat, either. Because if there’s one thing that every genre with mentalists agree on, it’s that as a group, mentalists are the most stable, well adjusted people in the world. They always have a firm grip on their psychological advantages. Actually, now that I think of it, I may have caught a disease way back in first edition AD&D, when giant rats and bats had a 5% chance to infect you per bite. And someone else did catch one in a much more recent game that was run by a bio major, who wanted to show off how much he knew about bacteria. The less spoken of THAT particular misadventure, the better. It involved a giant loosing control of some of the more important bodily functions. Ten points seems excessive, though. Wait. Vampires can catch diseases? That sucks for them. Do they sleep, too? “Man, I am TOTALLY Raziel-ing, the first chance I get!†--- Where’s the ‘long, heavy, melodramatic sigh’ smiley?

Re: Blazing six guns! Actually, I’d just drop the ‘Hex Accurate’ slot completely, but that’s cause I don’t like the advantage. Instead, I’d take: (60)‘Multiple Targets!’ 2d6 HKA, AOE, 1 Hex Doubled, Selective (+1) In fact, I’d probably buy the whole thing as a 4 way ‘Variable Advantage’ on the killing attack, and then buy some cheapo skill levels with lockout, so you can be super accurate, OR AP/AOE/Autofire/Whatever. A bit more expensive that way, but that’s always the way when you don’t use multipowers . . . --- Actually, I’m not a huge fan of ‘Autofire 3’ as a +1/4 advantage, either.

Re: Why is Strength so underpriced? Technically, this is begging the question. First, you have to establish that it IS underpriced. I mean, beyond the blisteringly obvious ‘you get back more than you put in’ and ‘no other attack power has even a fraction of it’s flexibility’ points. Cheap shots aside, the answer is “Legacy crap.†The same reason D&D Rangers can cast spells. Understandable, though. Long term fans of point-based systems tend to really HATE it when the core ‘blocks’ of the system are changed. Look what happened to GURPS when they changed the price of IQ. And IQ was far, far more broken then Hero’s Strength. Given Hero’s game-buying following is about 85% ‘old timers,’ and that the most common genre, Champions, mitigates the problem by allowing cheap and easy power frameworks, it probably wasn’t too tough a choice to make. And to be fair, as long as power frameworks ARE cheap and easy, and bricks don’t take them, it does more or less balance out for supers games. Not as well as it could, but almost close enough for government work. For the record, the board as a whole tends to come down about 60/40 against changing Strength. I’m for, (as if you couldn’t guess . . .) but then, I’m big for changing things I don’t think work well. --- “Wait. So if I buy IQ and Dex up to 15, then I can buy every skill in the game, at 14-, for half a point each?†“Ah, no. A small number of them will cost a whole point each.â€

Re: It Costs Too Much! A second for the ‘exotic life support’ 10 points to be immune to diseases, 10 points to be immune to drugs, and you still probably need power defense to stop drains built as drugs or diseases. Eh. And the ‘holding breath’ thing is just weird. In the extremely unlikely event that you are in danger of running out of breath, given Hero’s incredibly generous ‘breath holding’ rules, moving the amount of time between the ‘use one end, even if you don’t do anything’ intervals is probably not going to help. A second on Aid. Binary Man spent 24 points on a fighting array that was worth maybe 8 points, and that’s being stingy with the limitations. To be fair, using Aid to boost dex past the NCM’s been a standard since at least 4E. The problems as much NCM being a bad idea as with Aid itself. Anyway, it wasn’t so much that Aid was ‘over fixed,’ but they fixed the wrong part of it. You can still Aid 15 powers at once for a +2 advantage, which was the core of the original problem. The king of the ‘overpriced advantages,’ though, has GOT to be ‘One and a Half Times Knockback.’ You can have an 8d6 EB, that does the same knockback as a 12d6 EB, for the mere cost of a . . . 12d6 EB. Actually, Double Knockback is a close second, but at least that lets you do a tiny bit more knockback than you otherwise would. Not that a 6 1/2d6 double KB EB is anywhere near the same use as a 12d6 EB, but at least you come out ahead. (A whole inch! Woooo!). Ego’s overpriced in most games. In settings with no mentalists, its only use is defensive presence, which costs half a point, and Ego Rolls, which probably don’t come up that often. Willpower should be a big deal in any heroic fiction, but the game just doesn’t use it for much. Though even in campaigns WITH mentalists, I’m still waiting for a good justification as why it costs twice what Strength does. --- Has anyone ever had a character even catch a disease in ANY rpg, where it wasn’t a Plot Device? Anyone?

Re: What in genre bit do you like that no one else seems to enjoy ? “Doom MUST HAVE his Raspberry Cider Jack! His thirst is beyond the ken of your feeble intellect! He has not the time, nor the inclination to deal with your petty ATMs!†--- “Besides, Doom is a little short this month!â€

Re: "Puny Humans" Powers Not really. Mine involved making actual changes to the setting. Yours involved constant use of two complicated powers, that you probably wouldn’t allow a player to buy in any other form, to sorta-simulate making the actual changes to the setting. My point was, if you want supers to be immune to human attacks, then you should either change the actual builds to make them immune, (which is not difficult) or just hand-wave it, which is ok, too. (In your case, that would be ‘Normal’s attacks can’t hurt supers, and everything non-super takes double damage from supers) I think trying to force an in-game build to justify setting-based hand-waving is a mistake. In either case, the ‘setting changes’ part of mine came down to ‘Halve The Attack Power and Defenses Of Everything Non-Super, Except When Attacking Another non-Super’ ‘Cap the Stun Lotto,’ and ‘Get Rid Of The Combat Options That Are Specifically There To Allow Groups Of Normals To Threaten Supers.’ Doesn’t seem particularly complicated to me. --- “There’s no way to beat him . . . He’s a monster . . . a monster . . .â€

Re: "Puny Humans" Powers Yeah, I’m thinking this is really not a good idea. My general philosophy is “Points are meant to represent relative power. If you need to ignore points to do what you want, that’s ok, but just admit you’re ignoring them, don’t make a BS build that completely wrecks the power level.†Megascale, I’m looking at you. Short version: “If you want to knock back a guy with Knockback Resistance, buy enough knockback to actually move him, don’t suppress his KB resistance.†Anyway. Enough preaching. Either 1) actually increase the power of supers until normals really aren’t a threat, or reduce the power of human weapons and attacks until they really aren’t a threat. Or, preferably, both. 1) is pretty straightforward. Give supers a few more points, up the DC averages and the defense averages some. is pretty straightforward, too. Halve the DC of all human weapons, don’t let them take martial arts, halve the defense of their armor. Ah, but you say, now a human can’t even kill another human! But give all non-supers a X2 Stun And X2 Body Vulnerability to “Human Weapons,†and that’s fixed. Cap the stun mod for KA, and take out the multi-attacker bonus, and even a battalion of solders isn’t much of a threat. The only thing they can do is try to mob you and hold you down, so make sure everyone either has enough strength not to care, or some other defensive or offensive ability to compensate. Halve the Def and Body of inanimate objects and vehicles, and even a moderate brick can wade through any military hardware. Except the M1 Abrams, of course. No stopping that. There. Done. Mere humans can now only cower and beg for the favor of the mighty supers who protect them. --- “Humans may be weak and pathetic, but they’re absolutely essential! They’re our only prey!!â€

Re: Jojo's Bizzare Adventure: Simulating Stands If I’m remembering right, most of the stands couldn’t really act independently. Generally, if the stand was doing something, the stand user wasn’t. So you could probably get by with stretching and buying everything OIHID. So a generic stand might be: 12 (15) Elemental Control: Stand: Blue Moon OIHID (-1/4) 15 (38:23)Blue Moon 6†Stretching, Does Not Cross Intervening Space (+1/4), Only to one ‘point’ (-1/4), OIHID (-1/4) 9 (30:15)Stands Are Tough15PD/15ED Force Field, Only affects stretched ‘point’ (-1/2), OIHID (-1/4) Can’t Turn Off While Stand Is Summoned (-0) 8 (30:15)I see What He Sees Clairsentience, Sight and Hearing Group, Only To Stretching ‘point’ (-3/4), OIHID (-1/4), Can’t Turn Off While Stand Is Summoned (-0) 5 (30:15)Interposed Block! 6 PD/6 ED Force Wall, Feedback (-1), No Range (-1/2) OIHID (-1/4) 5 (10)Stands Are Strong +10 Str, No Figured (-1/2), Linked To Blue Moon EC (-1/4), Only to Stretched ‘Point’ (-1/4) A bit pricey, End wise, (9 per phase, even without doing anything) but that’ll force the players to only summon them when needed. An End Battery or just buying the whole thing Reduced End would mitigate that. On top of that, you have the stands special powers. Blue Moon’s a trenchcoated figure with a ton of guns, so: 48 (60)Blue Moon, Attack! 60 Point Multipower, OIHID (-1/4) 3u (60)2 Pistol Spray: 3d6 RKA, Line Shaped Explosion (+1/2), No Range (-1/2) 5u (60)Sniper Rifle: 3d6 RKA, No Range Penalties (+1/2) 5u (60)Assault Rifle: 3d6 RKA, Autofire (+1/2) 3u (60)Machine Gun: 2d6 RKA, AOE: Cone (+1/2), No Range (-1/2) 5u (60)Grenade Launcher: 9d6 EB, Explosion (+1/2) 2u (60)Stand In Front Of The Stand User With Crossed Forearms 12 PD, 12 ED Force Wall, Feedback (-1), No Range (-1/2) Actually, that’s probably too many slots. Most stands seemed to have only one or two variant attacks. Ah, well. You might want to get rid of one of the force walls. The one in the EC is the ‘default,’ Put him there and then he can attack or whatever. The second is the ‘active defense’ version. They’re not meant to stack, of course. So, what, 125 pts total? Plus a bunch of extra End. You could get a 312 pt ‘altered duplicate’ for that, so I guess this way doesn’t really save you points. More, if you want to buy the whole thing ‘IPE’ (Though you should get a pretty hefty ‘Not vs Stand Users’ on it. Non-stand users don’t seem to matter much . . .) The simpler stands, though, like Purple Hermit, and that weird water manipulating guy, just seemed like special effects for base powers. --- "THE WORLD!!