massey

Right.  Superman doesn't need to buy Detect: Lead, just because his X-Ray vision doesn't penetrate it.  That's even if it would be useful to occasionally detect lead.  That's just a casual side effect of having N-Ray vision and its natural limitations.  Likewise, if I have Flight: only to hover 6 inches off the ground, I don't need to buy a Detect: Altitude.  If you have an EMP blast that only hurts robots, yeah you can blast people and maybe figure out if they're secretly a robot.  So what?  You can do the same thing with a basic RKA if you don't mind getting a little messy.  Every power is going to give you information about the world around you, based on how that world interacts with your powers.  That's perfectly fine, and you don't have to pay for it. 
 
As far as this specific power goes, in this instance it's the ability to change things on the fly to whatever you want that makes this not actually a limitation.  In fact it pretty much makes the power better, letting you exclude people from the effect any time you want.  It doesn't take a lot to see how this could be abused.  For instance, let's say that Captain Wizard is facing a group of enemies.  There are 3 orcs, a troll, and an evil sorcerer.  Captain Wizard knows that sorcerers are generally smart, and will probably have a good Perception roll.  This would allow the sorcerer to defeat his illusion easily, and he would probably warn the orcs and troll that what they were seeing wasn't real.  So he slaps the limitation "not versus sorcerers" on his Images power, and the sorcerer doesn't even know it's happening.  He doesn't know to shout a warning because he didn't successfully overcome the power, he never even knew it was there.  So the orcs and the troll see an army of the dead rising from the ground in front of them, and they turn tail and run.  The sorcerer then wonders where the hell they are going, when they so clearly outnumbered poor Captain Wizard.
 
When you can pick and choose who isn't affected, and it can be anything you want, your power is much better than it used to be.  Need to affect everybody in the room?  Just declare that it doesn't work against time travelers from 1985 and you're probably good.  Need to have someone specific not be affected?  Just say it doesn't work against Bob.  Need to have only one person affected?  Just say it doesn't work against anyone else.  The power is virtually always more useful with this "limitation".

Right.  Superman doesn't need to buy Detect: Lead, just because his X-Ray vision doesn't penetrate it.  That's even if it would be useful to occasionally detect lead.  That's just a casual side effect of having N-Ray vision and its natural limitations.  Likewise, if I have Flight: only to hover 6 inches off the ground, I don't need to buy a Detect: Altitude.  If you have an EMP blast that only hurts robots, yeah you can blast people and maybe figure out if they're secretly a robot.  So what?  You can do the same thing with a basic RKA if you don't mind getting a little messy.  Every power is going to give you information about the world around you, based on how that world interacts with your powers.  That's perfectly fine, and you don't have to pay for it. 
 
As far as this specific power goes, in this instance it's the ability to change things on the fly to whatever you want that makes this not actually a limitation.  In fact it pretty much makes the power better, letting you exclude people from the effect any time you want.  It doesn't take a lot to see how this could be abused.  For instance, let's say that Captain Wizard is facing a group of enemies.  There are 3 orcs, a troll, and an evil sorcerer.  Captain Wizard knows that sorcerers are generally smart, and will probably have a good Perception roll.  This would allow the sorcerer to defeat his illusion easily, and he would probably warn the orcs and troll that what they were seeing wasn't real.  So he slaps the limitation "not versus sorcerers" on his Images power, and the sorcerer doesn't even know it's happening.  He doesn't know to shout a warning because he didn't successfully overcome the power, he never even knew it was there.  So the orcs and the troll see an army of the dead rising from the ground in front of them, and they turn tail and run.  The sorcerer then wonders where the hell they are going, when they so clearly outnumbered poor Captain Wizard.
 
When you can pick and choose who isn't affected, and it can be anything you want, your power is much better than it used to be.  Need to affect everybody in the room?  Just declare that it doesn't work against time travelers from 1985 and you're probably good.  Need to have someone specific not be affected?  Just say it doesn't work against Bob.  Need to have only one person affected?  Just say it doesn't work against anyone else.  The power is virtually always more useful with this "limitation".

Let's say that Father O'Reilly is a very pious man.  He has a power called "True Faith".  It's a 4D6 RKA, OAF Crucifix, only versus demons and vampires.  When he uses the power, the crucifix glows with a holy light and vampires explode.
 
However, let's say some bastard kid comes by and eggs Father O'Reilly's house on Halloween.  The kid is dressed up as a vampire, and if Father O'Reilly (who is getting pretty nearsighted in his old age) tries to use the power, it won't work.  The kid isn't a vampire, and isn't going to explode when confronted with a crucifix.  Nobody has to have a Detect.  The power isn't making a decision on who to blast.  Little Timmy isn't in any danger, because the power isn't going to make a Perception roll to see if it can affect him or not.  It just doesn't affect him because he's not a vampire.

Right.  Superman doesn't need to buy Detect: Lead, just because his X-Ray vision doesn't penetrate it.  That's even if it would be useful to occasionally detect lead.  That's just a casual side effect of having N-Ray vision and its natural limitations.  Likewise, if I have Flight: only to hover 6 inches off the ground, I don't need to buy a Detect: Altitude.  If you have an EMP blast that only hurts robots, yeah you can blast people and maybe figure out if they're secretly a robot.  So what?  You can do the same thing with a basic RKA if you don't mind getting a little messy.  Every power is going to give you information about the world around you, based on how that world interacts with your powers.  That's perfectly fine, and you don't have to pay for it. 
 
As far as this specific power goes, in this instance it's the ability to change things on the fly to whatever you want that makes this not actually a limitation.  In fact it pretty much makes the power better, letting you exclude people from the effect any time you want.  It doesn't take a lot to see how this could be abused.  For instance, let's say that Captain Wizard is facing a group of enemies.  There are 3 orcs, a troll, and an evil sorcerer.  Captain Wizard knows that sorcerers are generally smart, and will probably have a good Perception roll.  This would allow the sorcerer to defeat his illusion easily, and he would probably warn the orcs and troll that what they were seeing wasn't real.  So he slaps the limitation "not versus sorcerers" on his Images power, and the sorcerer doesn't even know it's happening.  He doesn't know to shout a warning because he didn't successfully overcome the power, he never even knew it was there.  So the orcs and the troll see an army of the dead rising from the ground in front of them, and they turn tail and run.  The sorcerer then wonders where the hell they are going, when they so clearly outnumbered poor Captain Wizard.
 
When you can pick and choose who isn't affected, and it can be anything you want, your power is much better than it used to be.  Need to affect everybody in the room?  Just declare that it doesn't work against time travelers from 1985 and you're probably good.  Need to have someone specific not be affected?  Just say it doesn't work against Bob.  Need to have only one person affected?  Just say it doesn't work against anyone else.  The power is virtually always more useful with this "limitation".

Let's say that Father O'Reilly is a very pious man.  He has a power called "True Faith".  It's a 4D6 RKA, OAF Crucifix, only versus demons and vampires.  When he uses the power, the crucifix glows with a holy light and vampires explode.
 
However, let's say some bastard kid comes by and eggs Father O'Reilly's house on Halloween.  The kid is dressed up as a vampire, and if Father O'Reilly (who is getting pretty nearsighted in his old age) tries to use the power, it won't work.  The kid isn't a vampire, and isn't going to explode when confronted with a crucifix.  Nobody has to have a Detect.  The power isn't making a decision on who to blast.  Little Timmy isn't in any danger, because the power isn't going to make a Perception roll to see if it can affect him or not.  It just doesn't affect him because he's not a vampire.

Right.  Superman doesn't need to buy Detect: Lead, just because his X-Ray vision doesn't penetrate it.  That's even if it would be useful to occasionally detect lead.  That's just a casual side effect of having N-Ray vision and its natural limitations.  Likewise, if I have Flight: only to hover 6 inches off the ground, I don't need to buy a Detect: Altitude.  If you have an EMP blast that only hurts robots, yeah you can blast people and maybe figure out if they're secretly a robot.  So what?  You can do the same thing with a basic RKA if you don't mind getting a little messy.  Every power is going to give you information about the world around you, based on how that world interacts with your powers.  That's perfectly fine, and you don't have to pay for it. 
 
As far as this specific power goes, in this instance it's the ability to change things on the fly to whatever you want that makes this not actually a limitation.  In fact it pretty much makes the power better, letting you exclude people from the effect any time you want.  It doesn't take a lot to see how this could be abused.  For instance, let's say that Captain Wizard is facing a group of enemies.  There are 3 orcs, a troll, and an evil sorcerer.  Captain Wizard knows that sorcerers are generally smart, and will probably have a good Perception roll.  This would allow the sorcerer to defeat his illusion easily, and he would probably warn the orcs and troll that what they were seeing wasn't real.  So he slaps the limitation "not versus sorcerers" on his Images power, and the sorcerer doesn't even know it's happening.  He doesn't know to shout a warning because he didn't successfully overcome the power, he never even knew it was there.  So the orcs and the troll see an army of the dead rising from the ground in front of them, and they turn tail and run.  The sorcerer then wonders where the hell they are going, when they so clearly outnumbered poor Captain Wizard.
 
When you can pick and choose who isn't affected, and it can be anything you want, your power is much better than it used to be.  Need to affect everybody in the room?  Just declare that it doesn't work against time travelers from 1985 and you're probably good.  Need to have someone specific not be affected?  Just say it doesn't work against Bob.  Need to have only one person affected?  Just say it doesn't work against anyone else.  The power is virtually always more useful with this "limitation".

First off, I am not big on "all HTH/Range" or "all combat" skill levels to begin with, as I think the cost is excessive.
 
However, where are you seeing that you cannot use skill levels for added damage in a Champions game?  It's not in my 6e RAW, or if it is I am missing it.
 
The pricing of skill levels at one time was based on Multipowers - with a 10 point pool, you could have a slot for "+2 OCV", "+2 DCV" or "+1 DC", the last being a phony cost as you can't buy "+1 DC with any attack, 0 END" directly. That would be 10 + 2 + 2 = 16/2 = 8 points.  That works, at least sort of, if you add in mOCV and mDCV, but those have been removed.  I suspect the reasoning was +1 DC with Normal attacks and Killing Attacks and Other Attacks being separated as three MP slots, but I don't buy that approach.
 
In my view, the cost of skill levels (combat and others) needs to be revisited across the board.  I'm good with the 2 and 3 point levels, even 5 point levels, but "all HTH" or "all Range" probably should be 6, and "all combat" 8. Maybe leave a 10 point option that also includes mental combat.

I can't give credibility to the idea of requiring a detect because you might use a power to determine something about someone, at least not until every bit of STR and every HTH (normal) attack is mandatory bought with "Detect : Glass Jaw" and swords are required to take "detect: thickness of flesh" because it's quite possible to use these attacks to determine these things. 
 
I do not say that the arguments are not reasoned and well-thought; some folks have put some thought into their opinions, but at the end of the day, all powers will ultimately allow a character to "detect" who is or is not affected. 
 
"I zap him with my lightning bolt." 
 
He drops. 
 
I detected that he is  one of those people who can be hurt by lightning. "
 
 

This is, of course, Hero, where we reason from effect.  If the power provides the ability to Detect, then the functionality of Detect should be built in.
 
Can a limitation occasionally provide an advantage?  Sure.  "Only affects" (or "does not affect") women could detect that a woman was disguised as a man or vice versa.
 
But that is very different from "well, my Blast can only work against, or not work against, anything I want, and I can change it on a whim".  That Blast will, at worst, fail to harm someone I want it to harm only once.  Practically, when I am targeting an opponent, why would I choose to limit it at all?  Rather, I have created a detection system.
 
Question Zero is whether I want a specific capability in my game at all, regardless of its price.  There's a passive-aggressive approach to getting rid of such abilities - price it out of reach.  But xp and player creativity make that challenging.  There's also the direct approach - NO. 
 
No, the PCs cannot have an Images power that can be fine tuned so that only those who are truly loyal to the King can see it, or dopplegangers can't see it, or the murderer of the King can't see it, or anyone who tells a lie can't see it for the next five minutes, or it only causes items to shed light if they are magical, and so on and so forth.
 
When you can change who can perceive it at will, it is no longer limited at all, and in fact is stepping on the toes of another power.  If you can use your Images as a variable Detect, then that VPP probabky needs to also hold Detects.  If it's for very creative uses of Images to simulate a wide array of other abilities, then it is a VPP that always has the Images SFX.
 
 
 
 

The power doesn't have to detect it, I don't think.  The power itself has something in it's nature that makes it only effective against a particular target or target group.  In the images v colorblind example mentioned above-- the images may include lots of random obscuring activity in the image itself that, owing to the color makeup, simple is not perceived by people who are colorblind, meaning that they see the image as normal without all the conflicting chatter.
 
Or, to use a real-world example:  camouflage is useless against colorblind people.  Seriously.  Way back before there was a legit Air Force-- when there was only an Army Air Corps, color-blind pilots were sought out simply because camo trickery did not work on them, making hidden military targets much easier to spot.
 
And if my cellular disruptor ray is completely negated by the Y chromosome, well all I have to do is pull the trigger: it's only going to work against females.
 
 
At the risk the freely-given down votes, I think a lot of this is brought out by the most "no-filled" edition of the game to date, and built upon with examples and even conversational exchanges that encourage the idea that if an additional expense _can_ be applied, then it _must_ be applied: mechanics over SFX.  Looked at another way, what is the point of taking a minor Limitation -- doesn't work against sweaty opponents-- if I then have to build a complex sensory detection system that's going to cost more than any potential savings?  

This is a good point.  The 6e books are great as a reference tool - like an encyclopedia set.
 
They are terrible for learning how to play.  750+ pages is just too much material to expect players to read through, much less learn.
 
D&D 5e made a decision to streamline their product and there are now more players than ever - by a lot.
 
I recently skimmed my champions 4e book and it reminded me just how well it balanced crunch vs. readability.

6e? My condolences...

If you wanted to be weird, how about lots of Growth, 0 End Persistent, Invisible, with like a -5 custom limitation "provides no benefits at all" and another -2 "only to be bigger when electrical powers are used".  Buy enough so that you fill up multiple hexes.  So if somebody shoots a lightning bolt that travels near your hex, they end up hitting you accidentally because you're just in the way.
 

Basically what you need is a justification why modern guns aren't used anymore.  For whatever reason, this justification does not apply to science fiction swords.
 
Suppose you get body armor that can stop a 21st century rifle.  That white plastic Storm Trooper crap just bounces a bullet no problem.  Alternatively, maybe there's an alien race that's too tough to put down with modern guns, at least the convenient ones.  Most people can't run around holding a .50 cal.  So anyway, as a result you go to plasma rifles, or some other futuristic tech.  But... plasma rifles have drawbacks that modern guns don't.  Maybe they take a couple of seconds to charge up.  Pull the trigger and it makes a "woop woop woop" charging sound before it fires.  Or the blast moves slow enough you can see it (like on TV).
 
As a result, specialized energy swords become useful if you're fast enough.  A really skilled person is more lethal with his energy sword than with a plasma rifle.  He doesn't have to wait for it to charge up, he can swat blaster bolts out of the air, or whatever.  There you go, that's enough of a reason.

Obviously you've never hit someone hard enough with a rusty blaster....

They say that hitting water with enough velocity is about the same as hitting concrete.  Assuming that's not just an urban legend you would probably be done either way.
 
Maybe if you're feeling generous a die or 2 may get knocked off.

"Ham" is fine. It's just the kind of name that humans would give to a chimp.

As for the "Plutonian Confederation", well, you see...
 
(Stuff I made up a long time ago follows.)
 
Far beyond Uranus lie the Outer Worlds - artificially habitable planetoids, created by Beings Unknown, and populated by a number of species, including humans taken from Earth tens of thousands of years ago and mutated in their alien environments.
 
Despite being technically within the Solar System, they are so remote that it takes years for even sophisticated spacecraft to travel between them and the inner system. Fortunately(?), however, there is a network of wormholes connecting them and the inner system.
 
The closest wormhole entry point is in orbit around Mars. This has led to considerable confusion on Earth, with multiple species apparently originating on the Red Planet, despite the latter (probably) being uninhabitable!

What humans know as the "Plutonian Confederation" is a group of species who entered the inner system through a wormhole in the vicinity of Pluto.

Anything that eliminates part of New Jersey is OK by me!!
 
... And I expect that after the novelty wears off, the Amazons will have a remarkably similar response to "persecution of the male minority" remarkably like China has about all sort of things: "Our internal affairs are NOT for discussion in an international venue."
 
And at least the joy-riding alien teenagers hit an airplane rather than, oh, a controlled-flight-into-ground strike into Mumbai at 3,000 km/second, replacing the urban area with a steaming crater, killing all the residents, and damaging the spacecraft enough so it can neither transmit distress signals nor get itself back into space.  But there's enough surviving machinery to get the humans very, very interested...

And Allies of the US is a very big possibility . If comics have taught us anything is that at least some  Amazons are drawn towards macho American heroes.
 
*Crosses fingers*

If you wanted to be weird, how about lots of Growth, 0 End Persistent, Invisible, with like a -5 custom limitation "provides no benefits at all" and another -2 "only to be bigger when electrical powers are used".  Buy enough so that you fill up multiple hexes.  So if somebody shoots a lightning bolt that travels near your hex, they end up hitting you accidentally because you're just in the way.
 

I Lied. I'm going to bed before then so I'll do it sometime tomorrow when I wake

.......if he was a snake man yes.
 
Or if she was a snake man

One question: Chicago is home to skycrappers. What is a skycrapper? They sound... unpleasant.
 
I'd just like to point out that a hollow earth that is really a giant computer, with the occasional, hidden alien hitchhiker linving among humankind is a great tradition that should be memorialized and is  a much better option than snakemen.

In the Thumperverse (my own campaign setting), costumes came about due to a feedback loop between vigilantes and Hollywood.  Basically in the 30s, instead of the "Public Enemy Era" where bank robbers became folk heroes, the Thumperverse had the "masked vigilante era," where masked vigilantes who used guns and murder to solve the problem of rampant public and political corruption became really popular.  It started with one guy, he inspired copy cats, they started a trend, and suddenly by 1934 you had a dozen guys running around the country in fedoras and trenchcoats, wearing bandannas to hide their identities, taking out "untouchable criminals." 
 
Hollywood began making movies about them, but found that the bandannas made it hard for audiences to understand the hero's expression, so they changed the bandanna to a domino mask.  Suddenly real vigilantes wearing domino masks started to appear.  Hollywood wanted their movie vigilantes to stand out from the crowd, and limited to black and white film, started adding details like an emblem sewn into lapel of the coat or a calling card with a logo.  They gave their heroes memorable names that played up the mystery,  like The Crimson Crimefighter and The Ghost of Justice.  Real life vigilantes followed suit.  And that's basically been going on ever since, with each new generation of heroes being inspired by Hollywood's portrayal of the previous generation.
 
Eventually capitalism got involved and now in the modern Thumperverse almost all heroes have corporate sponsors, media reps, and and licensing deals, and costumes are trademarked and registered with a international registry.  Costumes started to go out of style in the 90s due to their increasingly corporate association, and for a while there was a growing number of heroes (and villains) who eschewed costumes, but generally they were so obnoxious about eschewing them that they ended up being widely perceived as hipster douchebags, which (along with the introduction of cheap, custom printed lycra bodysuits) help repopularize the traditional costume among millennial superhumans.
 
I do really, really like the idea that costumes count as fair warning though.  I can 100% see some ****bird trying to sue a superhero because he broke his hand trying to punch the guy, and the hero using the defense "I was wearing a superhero costume, he should have understood that assaulting me could cause serious harm."

Stealth from Champions Complete states "using Powers while trying to be Stealthy is more difficult. Using an Obvious Power incurs a Stealth Roll penalty of -1 per 10 Active Points; using an Inobvious Power is at -1 Stealth per 20 Active Points"
 
6E1 376 as has been quoted before in the discussion states  “If a Focus is Obvious, it’s clear to anyone looking at the character that the power comes from the Focus — no PER Roll is necessary.”
 
The way I rule it is that if you've successfully made your Stealth roll, no characters are looking at you or your Focus...when you are successfully Stealthed, people aren't seeing you.
 
However, if you flub your Stealth roll, they see you plus the Focus and can tell that the Focus is doing something when you use it.
 
If you're standing in the dark so that you or your Focus can't be seen, they can't detect the Focus with their sight even if the Focus is obvious. If you're standing behind a wall while using your focus, they can't see through the wall to see the focus (no matter whether the wall is made of brick or is an opaque force wall).
 
If the character is always going to be standing in a Darkness field or behind an opaque force wall so that people can't see the Obvious Focus, it's the GM's responsibility to not let it be written up as an Obvious Focus.