Scott Ruggels

I keep mine in a filing cabinet...

I should probably go look at that.. This on top of starting a new thread? Wow, it's going to be a busy week. XD

I think it's also true. And with mention sin Hollywood of a few actors that have played, and still play tabletop, plus a couple of twitch and youtube games, things look a bit more "accepted" than they did back in the 80's

the book would be useful for ideas and advice. It was why I would buy GURPS supplements, even though I would never be running GURPS, they often had good ideas and good advice.

Well I put it out as a suggestion. 1.) to illustrate how and where something like the Primer would be very useful 2.)where and alternate source of newbies were. Sure, this can be split off on it's own topic if you would like. So a new thread for a project to Colonize Roll20.net?

we had a lot of bricks in our old campaigns, and we used this a lot, because 1.) at the time you got half damage for the maneuver, but (and I may be remembering incorrectly), you got double knockback? it's the only maneuver you could get after the to hit and damage was rolled, but it also took your next action.

I have shown the two introduction documents to a Hero novice this morning, and with a survey sample of one (1), preference has been to the Fantasy hero primer. The only suggestions were to put a Strength chart in there somewhere. I do think that there should be stat charts that describe assumptions on how they translate to real life. Strength, lift, carry, "is like" listed in a simple grid chart. same for dex and same for speed and others. maybe. Where I am coming from: Until very recently i as active on Second Life, there, running a business selling useable WW2 aircraft and some science fiction weapons to the denizens of that virtual world. while a lot of that time there was "work", in that i was constructing models, importing them and adding textures, a lot of that was downtime, and that was spent being social, standing around in alien environments, chatting with a group of other avatars about various topics. Often, especially with my German business partner, Kalle, we talked about tabletop gaming, as he is a very enthusiastic gamer, and LARPer. So we would trade old timer stories in the group, and that generated interest from other folks. Apparently there are a lot of former and current RPG players on Second Life. Talk moved to action when Kalle invited me to Roll20.net. he had convinced a few other folks from second life to play a game of FATE. Now I found FATE Awful, and decidedly unsatisfying, because i am not a showman, or much of an entertainer. Fate was more of a performance, than a "game" to me, so I was uncomfortable, and thankfully Kalle noticed, for we switched to Pathfinder. I am comfortable with social gaming on computer, and living in Los Angeles, but without a car currently, I found Roll20.net to be a useful tabletop simulator, and a hub for games, because from that first FATE game, the groups have blossomed into 5 other campaigns, though, not FATE. This has been the most gaming I have been doing since the mid 1990's., often playing with people that were born AFTER I stopped the first time. Roll20 has the capability of supporting Hero, but the support is not there yet. The two main systems that they support on the platform are 5th ed D&D, and Pathfinder, with strong showings by a few other games like Shadowrun and a few others. Roll20 itself provides maps, die rollers, and various GMs tools. With a premium membership, Gms get many more tools, map sets, counters, and access to a scripting language, which is what was used to create the dynamically updating, multi-page character sheets, that are used int he pathfinder game. These sheets, mimicking the paper sheet in appearance , track buffs, debuffs and ammo usage, real time, and the character counters/tokens, if clicked, have a health bar, and can track current Armor class, Hit Points and such, with editable, pop out, numbers. The GM can adjust the options to show what is hidden and what is not, as well. If one is looking for new blood, outside of game stores and conventions, roll20 is a place with a worldwide audience and a growing number of players. It's a place to play, without having to drive. all one needs is a decent computer, and internet capable of transmitting voice. roll20 does have voice tools, but they tend to drop or glitch, unlike the map and character sheet interface or the chat window, so we have used TeamSpeak (free), or Skype (mostly free) to carry the voice portion of the content. What I Need. if I am going to run Hero for folks on Roll20.net, I need, at minimum a finished copy of Xotl's Hero primer Document 9or something like it). Of the two documents i have show my test subject. Xotl's had the most rapid comprehension and positive impact. these are fairly experienced players and good roleplayers, but i don't want to scare them off, and want to obscure the slopes of the learning curve with some choice words and introductory simplicity. I would also need the Character Generation program, but then I would have to take time and hand build each character while on voice with each player, separately. Background materials i can provide, as this may just be a restart of an old campaign so NPCs and locations and maps are already done (mostly). but mostly what i need are materials that introduce the game to novice Hero players that are freely available. What Would Be Nice. If someone could program the back end in Roll20 Scripting language to make a dynamically updating character sheet, plus have the values on the sheet also reflect the values on the player token as they do for pathfinder, even better. What i can provide Though i am working full time, these days, i can provide a small amount of B/W art if need be. However if i am paid i can provide more. XD. Why This Might be important. As was stated above, pessimistically, with the current Hero economy, it has no shelf space, it has little presence at conventions and the player base is aging. The system has a rep for being scary complex and intimidating and some in the gamer intelligentsia, believe it's crunchiness is positively antique in the face of things like FUDGE, and FATE, and those One Die minimalist systems. I think that, if that complexity was "Black Boxed" into the character sheets, and the basic system was presented smoothly, the system may have a future on Roll20.net. Already there, you have hex overlays, tons of free, and premium 9for pay) basic artwork to use a map background. Plenty of token artwork is available, and the game information can be displayed as a searchable sidebar. In this situation, one not need a lot of layout, or paste up, and the need for art is alleviated. with experience GM here on thi forum, colonizing Roll20.net, it might be a lot easier (and cheaper) to introduce new people to the system to insure its survival for at least a few more years. we all know why this is a good system, and a great game. This could be the way to show others. Thoughts?

Then again, you have split the Possible product into two directions. (again). What is the aim? Are you trying to present a to the new players, a game world based on Hero mechanics? Are you trying to present an introduction of the game mechanics with a world wrapped around it? Powered by Hero, presents a problem of selling a background, and just presenting the mechanics. I think the aim for long term survival is the opposite approach is necessary. use the background to sell the system, or induce curiosity about the system. In terms of the presentation, many modifiers, special combat rules, and power frameworks should be avoided. What stats do, How stats work in combat, what skills do, what spells do, That should be the basic.

Speaking as a working artist. This is true. Every appearance of the artwork is (or must be) compensated to the artist, and each "new" appearance must be re-negotiated. This is why, unless an art contract specifies ongoing use, or exclusive rights, every new edition usually has new art. In a couple of cases R. Talsorian, and "Old" Hero Games, since i was friends with the publishers, i was cool with the re-use of the artwork in new editions.

That's a beautiful story with your daughter. especially how solidly she had the character Concept down. Even into the disads. Your friend, however, does bring up a different problem. What are you aiming this product at? A blank slate player new to the hobby? An experience Gamer, just unfamiliar with Hero? I think that is going to change the focus, quite a bit perhaps. I can see that for a blank Slate player, like your daughter, you would want something like the old "Package Deals" plus a skill list and spell list to allow for some customization, and also ease of use. something liek a mix and match of: [Racial Package Deal], [ cultural package deal], [ Professional package deal], Then pick additional skills and talents and Complications (is that what they are calling Disads these days?) where as, your friend might need the standard reference archetypes as pregenerateds, so he has context for the game and the power levels? Also in his case he will need simple spell lists with no, or hidden mechanics, until later.

I second this. I never used any power frameworks, and always bought them straight, or with a oiF or OAF focus, though if i needed a multipower built i would ask someone else to do it for me, after i had fleshed out the rest of the character, and had a block of points left to spend.

Too much for a beginner. and the presentation is the inverse of what would be attractive or instructive to the new player. Magic spell pool This ability allows you to use any attack spell known up to the level of the magic pool, one at a time. Because the caster must maintain control over the magic, an attack that continues to inflict damage phase after phase will stop if the caster begins to cast a different spell. This example provides three spells for attack, all of which do 2D6 of Ranged Killing attack against energy defenses, and targeted in an area, so that one can hit multiple foes with one spell. the caster chooses one of the following spells: Throckmorton's Conflagration, a spell that drops an explosion of flames [ describing the casting, targeting and effect of the spell; Zeus' Wrath, a spell that will produce lightining in a line of hezes [ect. ect.]; Polar Blast, a spell that produced a conic area of intense cold that will deliver 2d6 of Killing damage against energy defenses [Yadda yadda] ______________________________________________________________________________ Multipower, 60 points Throckmorton's Conflagration: Fireball -- 2D6 RKA Area Effect Radius +1. Zeus' Wrath: Lightning bolt -- 2D6 RKA Area Effect Line +1, Arctic blast: Cone of Cold -- 2D6 RKA Area Effect Cone +1. The problem is not that a multipower can be listed simply, is that the standard notation gives the entirely wrong and intimidating information to new players as to what the context of the spell is.

I think this version is probably the best presentation, and p[robably should follow something similar to expose the mechanics and acronyms to the new players, but without being obtrusive. I would probably format it more like Pikt's Bolt of Lightning By invoking the spirit of a storm elemental through arcane words and gestures, this spell allows the caster to strike their foes with lightning from their fingertips. When casting this spell, select a point within the caster's reach, and make an attack roll against every target within an area 2m wide and 30m long beginning from that point. Those struck by the spell suffer 2d6 points of Killing Damage versus Energy Defense; the caster cannot choose to reduce the damage of this spell, and when striking walls and other obstacles this spell does not blow open large holes in them. Casting this spell requires gestures, incantations, and the expenditure of 4 END; as such it cannot be cast while the caster is bound (including being Grabbed or Entangled) or gagged (including being Silenced by magic), and casting will fail if the caster is struck while casting. _________________________________________________________________________________________________ Game Elements: RKA 2d6 (vs. ED), Area of Effect (30m Line, Nonselective; +1/4) (37 APs); Beam (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), No Range (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2). Total Cost: 13 points. Keep the Game elements there, but drop them into fine print, and have a notationabout the fine print and how to build spells elsewhere.on the book. Thoughts?

place the stones in a grid, with the horizontal number of collumn squares equal to their CON, and enough vertical lines to allow all their Stun stones to be placed. if the player removesa number of stones to clear a line, or equal to that number, they are then stunned. if their grid is empty, they are unconscious?

Bravo! This is exactly what I was thinking about in the above, quoted post.

Unfortunately, I think it would be unlikely for a group of newbies to pick up the system entirely from scratch. The problem from picking it up from scratch is two fold. The first is the "Hidden GM Knowledge" problem, which was adroitly addressed by the Player's Handbook / DM's Guide structure of AD&D. the players are going to want, as stated above, context, for their builds, equipment and a list of spells. The GM however is going to have to need more of the "Toolkit Approach" of the regular rulebooks. give the players too much to read and they succumb to MEGO (My Eyes Glaze Over), and lose interest. Conversely a beginning GM for Hero, may see what is presented as rather limited after the first few months, and then he comes to the decision point whether to invest in new rulebooks or find something different. The Second problem is current taste. What do the new faces around the table look like? Are they people who came back to the gaming table after years away from it, with previous gaming experience? Are they new young people with no experience, but an interest due to the exposure of Tabletop gaming by Will Wheaton, or other people on YouTube and Twitch (or even curious about games after seeing it on "Stranger Things", even? What does the market look like now? I still think that the best way to learn the system (as I have said on another thread), is to have an experienced GM run the game for new players. Now that may falter, but the system really shines in play, rather than on the page (as it has been so far presented). I am not sure what the correct course is. If the booklet can be written in such a way as to guide new players to the system and guide them into future purchases of the full rules set, I think that would be optimal, but I have no idea how that would be done. Nut having a small short book, you can pass out for free that would allow for a basic game to be played, would help spread it (especially in PDF form, as well as a inexpensively printed pamphlet with a full color cover similar to the original SGJ Melee/ Wizard booklets.) having someting to take home from a con would be a good freebie to generate interest?

well now. That is unfortunate news.

as an aside, this is pretty much how character sheets work on Roll20.net, printable interfaces, that change real time due to button and value change inputs. Since using the old (OLD!) Heromaker that came out on the 3.5 in. floppies, I have been a lot more comfortable using the computer to make characters and character sheets than pencil and paper.

I am most familiar with 3rd, and 4th ed. I have a copy of 5th ed in storage, but all this talk is making me scared.

My bad, drawing is about all I can do well. On the other hand I know people made a lot of use with those clear plastic 18in. and 24 in, rulers though.

I am in two Pathfinder games, right now, and the only way the system works is that I am doing it online and the buffs and slights are handled by check boxes on Real Time update Spreadsheets. In that situation, the games works fairly smoothly, but stalls when there needs to be a rules clarification then we have to stop and wait for someon to find the specific rule (usually online) and then inform the group of the rule, then a slight discussion with the GM, and then the game starts up again after the issue is resolved. It generally works, it's just got bumps in it. Shadowrun i never liked, as I was a Genre purist, and worked for R. Talsorian Games (Cyberpunk 2020).

To me, the attractiveness of Hero, was the flexibility of the system. You could make anything. because of this, and the proximity of the original hero games Employees, and at the time, the plethora of game shops, and conventions, the system spread widely. By their example, other people picked it up and played it, and it spread. There were so many Fantasy Hero Campaigns locally in the 80's and 90's. Champions could be had at any gamer con within 400 miles. There were even hero specific fanzines, like Rogue's Gallery, and such. People would try, small, one off Science fiction campaigns of limited duration. From the conventions, champions seeme to have grown from it's origins ( get it) and spread, with the conventions, so that you got geographical bright spots of Chapions in the SF Bay Area, where it began, to Los Angeles, The upper Midwest, Central Texas, And the Middle of the Atlantic Coast. Hero flourished then it was played. At least until the implosion of the table top hobby with the introduction of CCGs in the Mid 90's. (IMO Magic The gathering, sucked most disposable gamer Income into collecting cards and building decks). If you want The Hero System to Flourish, it has to be played, rather than talked about. When I first sat down to play a session at the con it was introduced at, I was handed a basic Flying energy blaster character, complete with the comic book artwork in that first Edition character sheet. The play was fairly quick at the time, as I had come from Various FGU systems, and D&D (without the "A"). At the end of the session, I was hooked, and the group of us from the same High School bought copies of that first edition with the mark Williams cover. I was hooked, and Played until the last campaign ended when the GM moved to japan to teach engineering, in the mid 1990's. If you want more people to play, there have to be more examples out there to play with. The Company itself needs to have more of a presence at game cons and run official, introductory events. Each of the genre's might be represented, BUT with the prevalence of superhero movies now, both Marvel and DC, (Though with DC, the Animated fare has better game fodder) it would be stupid NOt to emphasize Champions. Recent background books have gotten a bit esoteric, much as comic books themselves have of late, But the current Marvel movies have the same sort of energy and ferment that Marvel Comics had in the 80's during the classic X-Men, and John Byrne's run on Fantastic Four. For a good convention run, all you really need is a mat, some counters, pre-prepared Character sheets, prepared villains, and a Look up sheet with the attack formula and speed clock printed out, so people know what phases they act on, per turn. To get people to play will take work, though to inspire people to want to come back, or buy the game and run it themselves. On paper, Hero is a hard sell, compared to the minimalist systems of FATe, and such, and the ubiquity, and publication beauty of Pathfinder, or D&D 5e, but when in play, the transparency of Hero, and the fact that all the mechanics are available on the sheet. makes play a lot more understandable at the table, without the delay of looking up rules, like you do in pathfinder, or the tyranny of the "rule of Cool" in FATE. Another option is Roll20.net, but that would take more work, but has the potential of more rewards. I joined Roll20.net a couple of years ago at the request of an associate from Hannover, Germany. After a rather unsatisfying experience with FATE, we switched to Pathfinder, which to me,comes across as d7D with the serial numbers filed off, but even still, the experience has been enjoyable. Finding players was fairly easy, as the playerbase on Roll20.net was world wide> even though the gm was German, the game was held in English, and that gave us a mix of Canadians and Americans, as well. So, even though I never bought anything in the way of Pathfinder or D&D 5E stuff, after a couple of years i became somewhat conversant in both systems, though still prefer Hero. I might suggest taking a look at what Roll20.net offers, as it is a fairly reasonable Tabletop Simulator, with decent GM's tools, tools that get better if you buy their premium service. Also if you get the premium Service as a GM, you get access to Roll20.net's scripting language back end, and this is how the spreadsheet style character sheets work. This is where the hard work of being a Hero GM on Roll20 would apply. Currently there is no support for Hero, and as such it would take a fiar amount of effort to write the character sheet scripts. On the other hand, the dice rollers that come native with Roll20, will hardly get a work out. The Help files needed would be simple, and unlike pathfinder, would not need the massive PDFs or what have you that exist under the help tab. The simplest solution would be a sheet explaining turn order, a sheet explaining how to calculate "to Hit", and a sheet on character creation, and maybe a list of basic powers and objects. More information would not be unwelcome, but getting enough out there to support new players, who join with an experienced GM would not be and insurmountable amount of work. One difficulty i see with further evangelizing has been monetary. Pathfinder and FATE are the most common games run on Roll20.net, and i believe that it is because the systems are freely available. Most of pathfinder can be found online. I do not think there is a freely available version of hero available as a free PDF, even a stripped down version, that could be used by online players wishing to play or run a Hero based campaign on Roll20,net. On the other hand, a GM might make something available to his players privately. who knows. In short, I don't think a high concept slogan about Hero is going to be as attractive to new players as much as an opportunity to play, and the resultant word of mouth would be to increase the fortunes of the Hero System. --Scott

this is exactly how it used to be done. Champions was a miniatures game based on 25mm miniatures on 25mm or in In hex mats. I have not made the move to 6e, and don't know if i will, because I prefer mats and minis.

I've been playing Hero system (Yes, Champions) since pacificon 1981, and i still will graph out a character in other media in Hero system. what io have seen in the past, was when Magic The Gathering came out, within a year, much of the gamer's disposable income got sucked into CCG's and acquiring cards. I think that lead to a sip on Table top gaming, and when the CCG interest settled, computer games became capable enough to ensnare people's interest. I continued to play tabletop games, mostly Hero System, until the late 90's when my friends acquired too many family and professional responsibilities to continue gaming. So for a while i stopped. Recently, an associate who lives in Hannover, Germany, convinced me to start gaming again, using Roll20.net. First we tried FATE, and, well, I hated it. As attractive as low mechanic, dramatist systems are for younger players, they held no attraction for me, due to the fact that my background was wargaming, and I "put my trust in the dice" rather than my acting ability or ability to BS the GM. I am not a writer or storyteller( I am a CG artist, currently). After some discussion with the players, we switched systems to Pathfinder. My impression of pathfinder is that it's a D&D variant, however it's a bit more "Monty Haul-ish' in comparison to D&D and int only works well in Roll20,net due to the extensive support that website gives to Pathfinder, with the MULTI -PAGE character sheets, operating like a spreadsheets, displaying real time change due to current Buffs and problems. Now, I am enjoying the game, but if I were to run again, I would rather run Hero, but there is currently no Roll.20 support for it. Roll20 is expanding. Looking for group requests are increasing each month, and it allows for the table top experience over one's desktop ( or better than average laptop). It has several tools for GMs, to manage maps, handouts, music, and "premium" tools for lighting effects and managing Line of sight. The audience is world wide, and there are games in most time zones. I would think that it would expand the player base if there was an effort to have the Hero System supported on Roll20.net. The hard part would be "coding" the character sheets on the back end (coding is something i cannot do), so that for the players, building a character would be similar to how the various 5th ed, and 6th ed Excel spreadsheets work. I think that the best advertising for Hero is other players, and word of mouth.

How did you come up with your 'handle' (forum name)? Mom gave it to me. What was the first tabletop RPG you played? Three Book Dungeons & dragons in 1976 What was the first tabletop RPG you GMed? Dungeons & Dragons What are you currently playing/GMing? Playing Pathfinder, Interested in possibly GM'ming Fantasy Hero (Home brew World). I was one of the original "Doug's Thugs" for the Fantasy Hero playtest, Also was one of the early Hero Games artist, back in the pre-5th edition days. Inow the system fairly well and would like to get back into it.