Doug McCrae

V: Loved Lord Midnight - a different ghost every week! Where did you get those characters from? Are they originals?

Wow! That's an interesting site. It had lots of characters I hadn't heard of, like Captain Magnet and TNT Tina. Beautiful picture of Ace Hart, too.

Marge = Invisible Woman. Both motherly. Lisa = Mr. Fantastic. Both highly intelligent. Bart = Human Torch. Both pranksters. Homer = The Thing. Both surly but sentimental. And Maggie must be Franklin cause they're both the youngest.

Remember the thread on the old boards It might be an e-mail game.. ? It was a discussion about creating the history/back story for a superhero universe and was absolutely excellent I thought, the best thread ever. I want to revive it by talking about the archetypes one needs for a decent superhero history. The sort that starts in 1938 and includes all the major comics superheroes. Project250 posted a list in the original discussion. Here's my take on it. Is there anything important I should've included but didn't? Anything I did include that you think is unnecessary? Heroes Strongman – Superman, Captain Marvel Avenger – Batman Avenger: Gun-toting – Punisher, Marshal Law, Lobo Avenger: Gun-toting cyborg – Cable Warrior princess – Wonder Woman Patriot – Captain America Speedster – Flash Underwater hero – Sub-Mariner Weaponmaster – Green Arrow Winged hero – Hawkman Magician – Dr. Strange, Spectre, Green Lantern Scientist – Reed Richards Monstrous hero – Thing, Hulk, Swamp Thing Anti-hero – Orion, Luke Cage Anti-hero: Animalistic – Wolverine Anti-hero: Hell-spawned – Spawn, Ghost Rider God – Thor, Sandman Cosmic hero – Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock Man of peace – Professor X Martial artist – Iron Fist, Karate Kid Martial artist: Ninja babe – Elektra, Psylocke, Zealot Version 2.0 – SA Flash Power armour – Iron Man Non-American hero – Captain Britain Young hothead – SA Human Torch Angry black man – Luke Cage Teenager – Spider-man Female version – Supergirl, She-Hulk Shrinker – Atom, Antman Cartoon animal – Howard the Duck Costume based on a playing card – Jack of Hearts Stripper – Lady Death Hero teams The GA team - JSA SA explorers SA teenagers – LSH, X-Men The SA team – JLA, Avengers SA outsiders – Metal Men, Doom Patrol, X-Men Super-agency – SHIELD 70s non-team Bronze Age teenagers – New X-Men, New Teen Titans Non-American team – Alpha Flight International team – New X-Men, JLI, StormWatch Image era gun-wielders – X-Force, Youngblood “What’ll we do tonight, Brain?†– Squadron Supreme, Authority Neutral Hidden race – Inhumans, Eternals, Gorilla City Pantheon – New Gods, Eternals, Olympians, Asgardians Untrustworthy ally – John Constantine Villains Evil version of a hero – Sinestro, Abomination, Titanium Man Catgirl – Catwoman, Cheetah Warped scientist – Lex Luthor, Dr. Sivana Robot - Ultron Death worshipper – Darkseid, Thanos Megalomaniac – Dr. Doom Megalomaniac: Extra-dimensional – Annihilus, Trigon, Dread Dormammu Pure evil – Red Skull Militant - Magneto Monster – Fin Fang Foom Ruler of a hidden race – Mole Man Cult leader – Brother Blood Crimelord – Kingpin, Ras Al Ghul Cosmic being – Galactus, Beyonder Psychopath – Venom Psychopath with style – Joker Destroyer – Doomsday, Fury, Seth Mind controller – Mr. Mind Time master – Kang, Time Trapper Prankster – Toyman, Mr. Mxyztplk Immortal – Vandall Savage Hunter - Kraven “You fool! Your energy blast only makes me more powerful!†– Parasite, Absorbing Man, Sebastian Shaw All the powers of a superhero team – Amazo, Super Skrull Super-gorilla – Titano, Gorilla Grodd Villain organisations International criminal conspiracy – Hydra, HIVE Alien shapeshifters – The Skrulls Theme team – Serpent Society

It may well be justified and necessary from an economic point-of-view but you're absolutely right - Champions isn't fun. Not compared with M&M, SAS and V&V. The problem with Champions is, it's generic. It has to cover all aspects of the superhero genre. I mean is the GURPS basic rulebook fun? No, no it is not. But the world books are. The other superhero rpgs mentioned have a specific tone - Silver Age for M&M and SAS, quirky and somewhat humourous in the case of V&V. All three also have better pictures and presentation, an exception being the George Perez cover for the BBB.

Could anyone confirm dates for the following - Death and return of Superman (93 for both?) Spider-man Clone Saga (94-96?) Marvel's Heroes Return (98?) The death of the Authority at the hands of Seth (01?) Thanks.

The Ultimate

Dr. Rune: Really enjoyed reading your history. Batman testifies to HUAC against Superman!!? I assume the Grayscale Effect creates superhumans. Loved the name 'Thaddeus Grayscale'. Some of the names weren't period enough for my tastes, though. Hardware? Flashpoint? In the Golden Age? They would've been called The Iron Avenger and Fire-ball. 'Aunt Artica' is perfectly appropriate however.

Mentalists and bricks are the scariest. Mentalists can break your mind, bricks can break your body.

I like to plan many sessions ahead though I don't always manage it. Variety is the spice of life as they say so I think it's a good idea to use lots of different types of villains and plots: Straightforward bank robberies and devious schemes. Mindless thugs and brilliant masterminds. Street hoods and alien conquerors. Hey! It would be interesting if the brilliant mastermind was forced to pull a bank robbery or other obvious crime for some reason. Or the mindless thug somehow got ahold of, and enacted, a devious plot. Maybe he found the plans in one of Doc Doom's old bases, eh?

Some more period bits. Internationalism: New X-Men (75), Captain Britain (78), Alpha Flight (78). Ethnic minorities: Not just blacks. There were also reds - Thunderbird (75), Dawnstar (77) and yellows - Shang Chi, Master of Kung Fu (73). 'Man --- ': Man-Bat (70), Man-Thing (71), Man-Wolf (73). Incidentally a female version of Man-Bat called She-Bat appeared in 72. A female monster - how 70s can you get? Animalistic heroes: Wolverine (74), Tigra (75). It seems to me this trend has much in common with that for monsters. Contrast Wolverine and Tigra with Spider-man. They all have animal powers but the 70s characters have bestial minds whereas Spidey has a normal personality. Philosophical animals: Howard the Duck (73), Cerebus the Aardvark (78). In the 70s funny animals weren't very funny. They stayed up half the night pondering the meaning of it all and questioning their place in the universe. Gods as aliens: New Gods (71), Eternals (76), Omega the Unknown (76). Chariots of the Gods (69) is probably a big influence here. One can see similarities between New Gods and Star Wars too. Cosmic adventure, superhuman powers, connection with old mythology but with an updated setting. Family relationships. The Age of Aquarius: Aquarian/Wundarr (73). The search for the Celestial Madonna. The look for a 70s hero: Long hair everywhere - Doc Samson, Aquarian. Asymmetrical, off-the-shoulder numbers. Ludicrously open-chested costumes - Tyroc, Moondragon (on her I like it, though). Tyroc's also features an ultra-high collar and ultra-tight shorts. Monsters/supernatural creatures: These have been mentioned already but there were a particularly large number - Swamp-Thing (71), Morbius (71), Ghost Rider (72), Wendigo (73), Son of Satan (73), Blade (73), Living Mummy (73), Golem (74), Hellcat (76). A lot of these characters didn't look like full on monsters but were, to a greater or lesser extent, superheroised. Morbius is somewhere between a traditional vampire and a superhero, for example.

Cool ideas. I like the magic-wielding aliens, and the time speed up.

There are really two separate questions here: 1) Can random death occur? 2) Assuming it can't and only heroic death is possible, can a hero come back from it? 1) Death thru lucky shot is possible by the Champions rules of course, with Batman/Daredevil type characters that lack resistant PD. A thug with a gun could take em out. This couldn't happen in the comics. If you want to play a more 'realistic' type game with the lethality and more-to-the -point the sheer random pointlessness of real life then that's fine. It depends whether you're trying to simulate comics and if so, what genre/period. 2) If you want a real-life feel I would avoid having people come back from the dead. Alternatively to preserve karma you could have horrendous repercussions for 'tampering with the natural order' or people could perhaps come back only as horrible decaying zombies or 'twisted' in some other way. We seem to have an in-built aesthetic idea about such things - that coming back from the dead shouldn't be painless and should probably go horribly wrong. OTOH I regard coming back from the dead as a comic book staple. The other posters are right I think that heroes almost never died in the SA except as what-ifs, imaginary stories, dreams or hoaxes but death and returning from it have occurred so much from the 70s onwards that it's become an almost indispensable part of the genre. But coming back from the dead isn't very grim n' gritty. So in answer to the question: It depends on the genre/feel you're trying to create. If you want more of a comic book feel I would introduce some sort of rule to avoid random death. 10rPD (only to avoid pointless death -1)? And if anyone dies a meaningful death they can come back from it. If you want a real-life feel, let the PCs die pointlessly and don't bring them back except as drooling brain dead walking corpses.

Quite formidable!? 62 PD!? I thought nukes were a 20D6KA. That would be 70 BODY on average which would actually give him a chance of survival, depending on his BODY and whether a (presumably heavily heat and radiation protected) medic could get to him in time.

The 70s. Blacks, usually called 'Black something'; martial artists; the supernatural - sorcerers, voodoo, vampires (Blade), werewolves; monsters, often swamp-based; horror; barbarians; feminism (Miss Marvel became editor of Miss magazine); cyborgs (I think Deathlok was a 70s character); talking ducks. Cosmic, exemplified by Jim Starlin. Going into space or other dimensions, in the case of Dr. Strange. Seemingly paradoxically, this was accompanied by looking inwards, examining one's own mind, navel-gazing. Exotic locations may be metaphors for the psyche. At any rate, both mental and physical exploration are far removed from day-to-day life. Streets, newsrooms, school, college. The cosmic hero cannot be found in these places. IIRC Adam Warlock's main foe was the Magus, a future version of himself. Battling yourself, representing a mind in conflict - you can't get more 70s cosmic than that. There was a brief trucking/CB craze in the mid to late 70s which produced one superhero - Razorback, I think. Anyway, I've gone off on a bit of a tangent but you can see some of these 70s tendencies in the Champions and Defenders. Supernatural - Ghost Rider, Dr. Strange, Valkyrie. Monsters - the blue furry Beast (was he in the Champions?) Cosmic - Silver Surfer. I don't think either team actually had a black member but if so that's quite outrageous - how dare they be so out-of-period! Nonetheless if you want that period feel you could cast your net a bit wider than the Champions/Defenders actual members.

Re: Istvatha V'han Great name, though.

You win the hardass award, Killer Shrike.

Inside the Matrix, your powers depend solely on strength of will. So we only need one stat - Ego, or as I call it, Psyche, from the 1980s Marvel superheroes rpg. I've developed a complex mathematical system using logarithms to derive all other powers from Psyche...

Mike Moran is the secret ID of Miracleman AKA Marvelman.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Off-Genre Characters: The Do's and Don'ts And Marvel's Black Knight. Superhero comics observe, in part, an anything goes mentality - you can have time travel, magic, super science, aliens, gods, mythical monsters, etc, etc. But on the other hand, in order for the protagonists to be superheroes they should observe several, ideally all*, of the Pillars of Superheroism: 1) Name 2) Costume 3) Powers 4) Secret ID There are also a bunch of lesser pillars like having a sidekick or an alliterative name, that are certainly not essential but are characteristically 'superheroy'. Sir Justin AKA Shining Knight has got a superhero name, partial costume (bright colours are the only superhero element), powers - magical weapon and armour, Who's Who gives a secret ID, Justin Arthur, but I suspect that's a Roy Thomas retro add-on. I would say he is a superhero but a somewhat borderline one. The name 'Shining Knight' is really important for his claims to superherodom. If he was just called 'Sir Justin' I don't think he'd be included in the long underwear brigade. *Not having powers is what makes Batman less 'superheroy' than Superman

Marchwarden: Good points, I agreed with most of what you said especially - One off-genre character = still superhero A majority of off-genre characters = not superhero Jedi is a tricky one. I don't think I'd allow even a jedi homage unless they were 'superheroised'. You can keep the powers and the energy sword but the hooded robes have got to go. OTOH I remember an insert comic where Superman met He-man and the Masters of the Universe.

Originally posted by Morningstar I think there's a perfectly reasonable argument that some of Cap's comic book abilities are way above human maximum. All this talk of being 'only human' is bullshit. It's hard to tell of course, because we don't know where human maximum is.

You should talk about something less emotive. Like Iraq.

If you have the old Steve Jackson card game (either version would work fine) you could try this, something I've considered but never implemented. Play a game and take notes as it progresses. For example, Bavaria takes control of the Pentagon, which then, asssisted by the Hackers, take control of the Ku Klux Klan. Italy gets destroyed by a combination of Meteor Shower and Giant Kudzu, sent by the Servants of Cthulhu. Instant plot!

Discordia = CLOWN, assuming they exist in the new Championsverse.