Crusty

This is cool

Thia:  In 6E it's not 'heroic' it's Alternate.  OIAID.  Because villains can certainly take it.
 
The point about not using Always On with Growth, Shrinking, and DI is...there's no point.  Just buy the STR, defenses, and KB resistance (for DI);  the mass becomes the Phys Complication.  The SFX is "density increase"  One thing about doing it this way is, you're not limited to the benefits of the powers.  For example:  titanium's density is 5.  That's more or less the starting point...the character will have "2 levels of always on DI."  But I'm not gonna do +2 PD/ED...to me, that's either 6 rPD/rED, or perhaps 4 dice of physical and energy damage negation.  Change the definition, change the power.  Graphene and carbon nanotubes become the skin and muscle;  graphite becomes the joint lubricant.  Now it becomes damage reduction, rather than negation;  the tissues are durable, and the blow gets dissipated rather than completely stopped.  And my most extreme case is also done in a Mulitform;  one of the forms conceptually has 2 levels of shrinking and 6 levels of DI (so he's normal mass).  His nominal density is 64.  How hard and how durable would that make him?  It's 3x the density of the very heavy metals like iridium, osmium, and tungsten, all of which are incredibly tough.  (I think ALL his defenses are Resistant, Hardened, and Impenetrable, altho I might've split between that and damage negation.)
 
Basically, especially if it's gonna be Always On, don't limit yourself to the package powers.  They're all built from components;  feel free to tweak those.
 
The anger --> STR....yeah, it's a Limited Power.  You just need to define the condition.  One I can remember would be frustration.  HULK CHAINED!!??!!!!  OK, so...any time Hulk's STR is not up to snuff, like bashing through a wall or snapping chains, he gets mad and therefore stronger.  And by the comics, it's ANY time...so that suggests Aid to STR, on a Trigger that itself has an activation roll.  So...
 
Aid 4d6
--Expanded Effect (+1/2):  --> STR and Aid, where the improvement to Aid is to allow the maximum effect to increase ONLY.  
--Delayed Return Rate, 5 per minute (+1)
--0 END
--Trigger:  Zero Phase to activate, Zero Phase to reset (+1/2)
--Only on the trigger (11- activation when frustrated)
 
The limitation value is kinda open, as is whether or not you think the delayed return rate fits.  Hey, Hulk should NOT be cheap.
 
 
 

It's a total of + 2 1/2...0 END is another +1/2.  Figured that was obvious.  So 5d6 is 105 active.  How much it should be is open to debate.  I might do 5d6 with standard effect, as +10 STR, 0 END...if I'm worried about it.  That's the way it's depicted, IMO.  Or if you think Hulk's got ridiculous REC and END to start with, 5d6 standard effect means +15 STR, therefore +3 dice, each time.  Makes tracking VERY simple.
 
The real cost depends on what you think the Uncontrolled aspect (that is, only on the trigger) is really worth.  I'm disinclined to say the full -2 because the condition becomes "when he finds out he needs it, it'll be there...soon enough anyway."  So I'd go with -1/2, and probably -3/4 if you go with the standard effect rule.  5d6 standard effect is only 15;  rolling, that's the average of 4d6+1.  And heck, the extra points you shave off going from -1/2 to -3/4 isn't that much.  Lessee...4d6+1 AID with +2 1/2 is 91 active;  with a -1/2 limit, it's 61.  5d6 AID is 105 active, with -3/4 limit is...60.  Excellent.

This is as much for me to check my understanding as it is to try and boil down concepts into a concise enough whole to be offered to others. In other words, I think this is the basics of the system rules, and tries to address each portion of the system in at least a minor way. Criticism is more than welcome, as is corrections and addendum. Not much mechanically though.

ahem


Hero System Beginnings:
 
Hello! And welcome to a fairly fun and peculiar system. Whether you intend to go out and fight the villain of the week, follow a dynamic continuous story-line to face off an arch rival, explore an unknown planet and mystic ruins, or travel between the stars with the cosmos in your hand, Hero system supports the lot of it. Some better than others, but that is beside the point! If you can think it, the system can nearly always support it. It just may look a little different than you expect!

Now, as per conventions in tabletops and theater of mind style games, the core concept is usually pretty simple. There exists evil out there, or perhaps just shades of grey and gray. You, the player, must interact in this world where evil or very strange shades of grey exist! Be it beating down bad guys, exploring new territories, schmoozing the social elite, sneaking through haunted mansions, or what have you! But in the end, regardless of what you are doing, you must be (somewhat) effective! This doesn't mean powerful, just good at what you are doing! However, Hero faces some very strange limits in regards to what it takes to be (somewhat) effective! Let's explore that, shall we?
 
Campaign Benchmarks
 
Wh-wha? We aren't talking about Character Concept first? Why aren't we-
Nope! Benchmarks my dear potential reader! Concepts for characters are in this portion, yes, but Benchmarks are what help you refine that! Characters in isolation are lovely yes, but they are like snow-globes. Pretty, good for capturing an image of a concept, but not very practical!

And what do I mean by practical now? Why that's quite simple! A Testing Character, which is what a Character is in isolation, is built with a specific sort of world, setting, or power level in mind. This, potential reader, is what is meant by benchmarks! They are broad, overarching rules usually imposed by the GM to determine how they want the characters to feel and play. Most often they are discussing the level of powers, defensive abilities, and how many points you will be building a character to!
 
These are the presiding laws for characters. Hero allows very very nearly anything to be built, but not all games can handle absolutely anything in the world. Or perhaps there is a specific level of power or theme that the GM is more comfortable with. Benchmarks are how they define and refine the experience. But most importantly, they tell you what are the limits to build to.

Build Principle: Stay Close
 
Still aren't talking about Character Concept? Come on! I've got a neat Idea and I want to see if it will work!
Why of course you do! And honestly, that's not my call! That's between you and the GM. Tell them about your concept, and then they can give you a thumbs up or down! The concept is you and the GM's court! I'm here to tell you how to try and follow within relatively normal guidelines in mechanics.

Speaking of, the Build Principle above, Stay Close! I can't seem to find where it was written, but it seems to be apt. Namely, that you want to stay close to what you can expect and what the party has! If the Party is sitting at Speed 6 and 7, you don't want something sitting somewhere at Speed 3. You're going to be out of the loop most of the time! And that's no fun for anyone, least of all you! So you, as much as the rest of the party, need to figure out what you are looking at for Speed more than anything else. Some will be faster, some slower, but everyone should try to stay within 1-2 Speed of each other.
 
Attack Type and Damage Class
 
Okay! My GM just approved my Electric Blaster! He's gonna fly, and shoot lightning, and save the day, and be all cool and awesome!
Most excellent! Now keep in mind that there shall be Villainous forces that oppose you! It's not just a rag-tag team of heroes standing in front of a back-splash! Villainous Evildoers, or Perilous Pitfalls, Ballroom Dancing, and other nefarious ills! But a fair portion of the time, you shall fight the evil! So, how do you do that?

You wanted to shoot Lightning right? Well, that is most likely an Energy Attack of some sort! Attacks and Defense are split between two, er, three forms. Physical, Energy, and Mental! The first two you will... probably be dealing with a fair bit I would say! Whether it is a man with a gun, a laser pistol, or someone coming to rough you up with fisticuffs, most of the threats you will face will probably be a Physical or Energy based Attack! Mental attacks are rarer, at least most of the time! A GM can choose to change this proportionality as they so choose! Remember that.

Damage is done in DC in this game. DC, standing for Damage Class! Simple enough, no? Without Adders, Limitations, or Advantages, nearly every Attacking Power is built to have one Damage Class per 5 Points put into it. Your GM probably has a Benchmark of what the maximum Damage Class they are comfortable running is! You'll want to stay within that limit. If you aren't certain on what Damage Class  you are doing though, there is a handy chart for figuring that out on pg 97 on the 2nd Core Rulebook
 
Health and Defense 
 
Alright then! My GM says to keep DC to 10 or less. And he said that PD/ED Should be under 40?
Well, That would make a fair bit of sense! PD and ED, standing for Physical Defense and Energy Defense respectively, are the two most basic forms of Defense. There is also Technically Mental Defense, to protect against Mental Powers, and Power Defense, that protects against other forms of attack! But, PD and ED are the two most common forms of Defense.
 
Now, before going on, you should know there is two types of health, that then require two types of Defense! STUN, which is the amount of damage you can take till you fall unconscious. And BODY, the amount of damage before you start to die! Both of these are normally bought as regular Characteristics. Unless you buy them for an alternate form or so on, they are usually pretty stable for their cap!

But back to Defense, PD and ED both work to protect against STUN damage. They are how you can stay up in a fight, and keep going! Generally speaking, you will want to have between 2 and 4 PD and ED per Damage Class you can inflict. So for example, since your GM is keeping Damage Class at a max of 10, you likely want to have 20 PD and ED, and up to a maximum as they put it, of 40. Each point of PD and ED take away 1 point of STUN damage, barring some special circumstances. So a 20 STUN attack will be ignored by 20 PD/ED.

However, the nefarious forces of evil are fond of Killing Attacks! These attacks ignore your STUN and go straight for your BODY! The Fiends! Your Normal PD and ED are no match for these attacks! To stand up to this type of assault, you need Resistant Defense! Each point of Resistant Defense, of either Energy or Physical type mind, takes off 1 point of BODY damage! 
 
Advantages
 
Resistant Defense? But... I thought you said there were only like... 5 forms of defense? That wasn't one of them!
Correct you are astute little theoretical reader stand in! Resistant Defense is secretly just PD and ED wearing a fancy coat! This coat's name? Advantage!
 
Advantages are, in short, special perks for Powers. Think of them like Power Upgrades! In this case, the Resistant Advantage! It lets whatever sort of Defense you apply it to resist BODY type damage! There are a fair few types of Advantages! Everything from being able to effect an Area, having your powers last longer than they would otherwise, taking no energy to use, and more! They, along with Limitations, let you customize your power set! Unfortunately, they are quite expensive! Each Advantage costs a multiplier of your Powers cost! So Say you have a 30pt power? If you want a +1/2 Advantage, you're gonna have to pay an extra 15 points!
 
Limitations
 
Wait, Limitations? I don't like the sound of that.
Oh come now! Limitations are nothing to be afraid of! They make your character dynamic, movable, and interesting! They give your GM toys and workarounds to provide interesting encounters! They make your character more human! They-
Electric Blaster is are an alien though
-More Alien then! They give you tools in your toolbelt to create interesting and unique powers and people! They-
No.
... They refund you points.
... Continue...
 
Alright, now that fussy is on board, Limitations! They limit your powers yes, but they also grant a refund on some of the power's cost. And this is applied after Advantages. You can have your power cost more endurance, fail to work on certain people, last a shorter amount of time, not do as much BODY damage, and more! You can even link up powers to work in tandem with them! They are tools for you and the GM. Just remember, if  you include it? It will come up.
 
Skills, Everyman and Otherwise
 
 
But, I feel you didn't like that portion. So tell me! What exactly does Electric Blaster do when he's not Heroing?
... Not heroing?
Yes, when he isn't out there, flying and shooting lightning and so on! What's his job, and his hobbies?
He... I... uh... Elect-tri... Electrician? Maybe... Likes Rock music? 
There we go! We can work with that!
 
So Both of those are types of Skills! Skills represent capabilities of your character beyond just their superhuman powers! Everything from Acting to Science to Giving Speeches to Making Gadgets to Climbing mountains to Conversational Skills to-
WAIT. I have to pay points to TALK to people? That's dumb.
Well, of course not! You can pay points to be better at talking with people, but you don't have to! Most campaigns have Everyman Skills! Skills you get at a basic level just for existing! No points needed to pay for them. Conversation is usually one of those! The exact number and type of Everyman Skills varies though.
 
But, there are more skills than just those! There's Profession Skills! Skills that your character has from working their job! Say for example, Mister Electric Man's being an Electrician! That's a Profession Skill! You don't have to worry to heavily about these most of the time though.
 
More than Profession Skills, there are Knowledge Skills! Skills you have about knowing particular things! There is a basic level of understanding that is presumed, that you don't have to pay points for, but sometimes, a Super Human needs to know a little more about the average gang, or the new Super Drug going around!
 
Complications
 
Don't worry there, we are almost done. Tell me more about Electric Blaster! Does he have any problems? 
Well... You aren't going to stop badgering me for these until you get some will you?
Nope!
Fine. He... has problems with... uh... Work? And.... he shorts out in water? That work?
Works enough for me!
 
Both of those would be what the game treats as Complications! They are problems the character has broadly speaking, that allow you to spend some extra points. Your GM likely has an amount they want you to spend on complications, just to give them some good tools. And you get points out of it! Lovely stuff. This can be everything from Villians who are hunting you, to a weakness to an element, to a romantic rival, to just not standing the sight of people being hurt!
 
Summary
In the end, where you spend your points is up to you. Some put it in powers, some put it in skills, others put it in martial arts, and some just put it into characteristics. As long as you are following what the benchmarks your GM provided are, you should be in the clear.
 
 
 

I second Uncle Vlad. In a medium of memes and sound bites I’ll take a well written porterhouse steak 🥩 any day!

The answer itself is frequently less important than the reasoning behind it.
 
And if I want a quick bite...lambsicles.    (Frenched rib chops.  2" of bone with a couple ounces of meat at the end.  YUM!!!!!  Unfortunately VERY expensive and not commonly available.)  FAR tastier than sound bites.

Do you have APG? It has a write up for "voice range".
 
You could try Pre attack linked with a dex/str drain ( oe do the drain by itself).
 

Unless seeing the power grants some way to circumvent it, I can't see getting a Limitation for this.

It's not excessive verbiage;  it's supplying a comprehensive analytical discourse, rather than the written equivalent of a sound byte.

Thank you, Sir (I presume; forgive me if I err).
 
I talk way too much.   
 
 

Sooo much better than what I said and how I said it. Worth seeing it all broken down like that. Nice post. 

That.  That right there.
 
Imagine your forward momentum carrying you, then you turn.  Your momentum wants to keep going straight.  With four wheels, the suspension on the appropriate corner helps absorb that energy until you've obtained a new direction.
 
With a trike, you have nothing on the front corners: the  trike happily rolls right over.
 
I run into this a lot with "normal" street trikes.
 
For years, I ran a website for beginning motorcyclists.  I was a riding instructor (street and racing) for many, many years.  Frankly, if it were up to me, the big street trikes would be banned for the exact same reason: they roll over and kill people.  Sadly, they kill mostly older people who have decided they can't ride a bike anymore, but feel they would do fine on a trike (which not only takes much more strength to turn, but--- there's the "rolls over on a whim" problem).  "Tadpoles" or "reverse trikes" like that Bombardier thing on the market right now are great: they solve the problem by putting the suspension where it needs to be on a flat-turning vehicle.  However, between the two wheels widely spaced up front and the underpowered 750-powered CVT means there's really no reason not just buy a car. 
 
 
As for the four-wheeled ATVs and the remarkable number of fatalities associate with those, well, I can't claim expertise, but I live in an extremely rural area (most of our roads around here, in 2020, are still dirt), and there are just as many ATVs as there are trucks, if not more.
 
What I typically see is that the bulk of ATV riders are underage.  This doesn't mean they're not capable, mind you, but it tends to mean a lot of people without proper reaches for the extremes of the controls and without enough physical strength sufficient to wrestle the controls when they fight back....    well, the bulk of people wrecking the things are kids, and have no business on them in the first place.  I have yet to meet a parent who doesn't believe that his kid is somehow special and able to do things beyond his maturity and beyond his physical development.  Judgment plays a huge part as well, and --- well, there's more than one reason we don't let kids make split-second life-or-death decisions.
 
Another common cause of wrecks on these things is lift kits.  It's three, maybe four feet wide (for the ride-behind type), and few are as much as six feet long.  Why would you make it taller?  I don't mean a little bit taller; I mean "the floorboard is now five feet of the ground" lift kits.  Sure: you can ride through deeper water.  You can ride through deeper mud.  But ever little tip and lean is so amplified....  over she goes, and on top of whatever momentum and whatever you're landing on, you can add a five-foot drop as the machine _flings_ you very much head-first for a side-of-the-skull impact.
 
When you find an ATV with a snorkel kit, you know two things:  
 
You know that the guy bought a kit that will let him creep his ATV through slow-moving or stationary waters regardless of how deep the water is.
 
You know that at some point, he has or will run that thing with the wick wide open across dry ground and straight into a body of water or mud, either of which will stop him cold from a full run.  Over he goes, straight across the handlebars, face-first into whatever is waiting for him.
 
 
Then you've got the fact that most people want to treat them like dirt bikes, which just doesn't work: you can't keep the front end up in a jump; you can't slide them sideways around a tree, etc.
 
Anyway, that already went on far longer than I wanted it to, so let me jump to the point:
 
 
 
Are they really failing their driving roll?  I mean, sure: they are, but why?
 
Let's say the character has driving 14-.   Then he climbs onto his ATV.   Now this ATV is _not_ a car.  In fact, the characteristics of this thing-- the very way it is built and operates, means that just going straight and stopping forces a -6 to your roll.  Then you want to do a maneuver-- running full tilt and swerve.  Given the suspension design, the center of gravity, the deep bite of the tires into the earth, etc-- this maneuver takes another -2, perhaps you're going fast enough and over terrain broken enough to make that a -4.  Now you've got a -10.  Fourteen minus 10 means you have to roll a 4.  Given the half-a-percent chance of rolling a 3, your odds don't get much better for a 4.
 
Now let's say that you're small:  you're too light to affect the center of gravity (you have to lean and roll your body as if you were on a bike, just because the things are so cussed small; this helps prevent a side-ways roll-over.  You're also short: in order to really throw the bars, you have to lean _into_ your turn, actually _increasing_ your chances of rolling over sideways.
 
You're also inexperienced:  you don't really understand the importance of all the stuff above, or when to do what.  You don't even understand the danger that you're in (or that your idiot parents have put you in).
 
 
Realistically, what's killing you?
 
 
The machine?  Or trying to outclass your skill level?   Or using the wrong skill set entirely, assuming "well, it looks like a motorcycle; it must work like one" or "it's got four wheels; it must work like a car"?
 
 
Yes; this could go on and on and on, but it boils down to that last suggestion in most of the cases I see around here:
 
Not so much as "blowing the skill roll" as "not having the right skill to roll against."
 
 
Just because someone can operate an end loader doesn't mean he can operate a bobcat.
 
 
Now game-wise, it works the way you want it to:  perhaps "dirt bike" or "motorcycle" or "combat driving" provides equal skill in your game for for cars, pick-ups, vehicles pulling camper trailers, and ATVs.  If so, that's fine.    But if you want to apply the game to the world around you, I strongly believe the real world problem to be "wrong skill" or simply that you think you have more of that skill than you actually do.
 
 
 

There's an errata document here:
https://www.herogames.com/store/category/40-hero-system-freebies/
 
 

Hmmm....Two parts for me.
 
First, Telepathy and Eidetic Memory to get the scene/information.
 
Then Images to play it back with a Trigger so that it doesn't require the original user every time.
 
or Clairsentience to Images with Transmit and Area of Effect.
 
then Eidetic Memory only for the Images with a Trigger for repeated Playback.
 
 

A lot of recording device builds are done with Eidetic Memory, seasoned appropriately to taste.  

Then throw on Useable by Others and Focus.

Thanks for the shoutout!  As the guy what wrote it, probably not. 
 
Many years ago in a Fantasy Hero game, I played a ki-rin (or more accurately, myself transformed into a ki-rin, in a fantasy world).  The GM, who wrote up all of our transformed versions, gave me PS: Magic Steed, with the idea that I'd be able to use that as a complementary skill in order to help someone (with Riding skill) stay on my back.  Probably not quite what you're looking for for an Autobot type character.  
 
The Resistant Protection Power includes a +10 point Adder:  Protects Carried Items, which can explicitly include other characters.  That might be what you're looking for.  (6e1 p. 276 or CC p. 83)
 
Edit to add:  Clinging, if you want them to just be attached to the side of you, or effectively seatbelted in place inside your Resistant Protection.  

There’s a new Hall of Champions book that updates 3e Robot Warriors (you need both books)
 
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/327714
 
I’m not that far in yet but there may be something in it that helps

Simple Backlash means that the character could take damage from a Power that normally wouldn’t pass on the Damage. It’s mainly used on Force Wall but can be applied as needed.

The input is appreciated. I hear you but disagree.
 
I started with a simple question with simplistic examples, see if there was anything RAW I missed regarding doubling up.  
 
Anything past RAW is on me, but I’m amazed at the depth and effort taken after that. Assumptions as to my experience, even a little unicorn. Which was pretty amusing actually. the statement regarding my waiting and waiting for an answer seemed a little like a threat as well
 
so not personal no. Just calling it like I see it. 
 
got my answer and my welcome. I’m leaving it at that. 

I think this seems like the perfect time for a multipower. Two powers that are achieving pretty similar things, with strong thematic ties, that you don't want to use at the same time as each other? Two fixed slots in a multipower

I'd use a Multipower with two slots, one for Flight and the other for TP.

Good lord. What a welcome! 😂 

Greetings all.
 
I’ve been playing RPGs since 1982. Boot Hill 2e to be exact
 
I’ve played everything from Rifts, Aftermath!, Boot Hill, Top Secret, Traveller, Rolemaster and a bunch of others back in the day, but have stuck with Hero since the 4e Big Blue Book
 
I’m a big fan of Champions Complete, which I think is the best Supers game available today (Thanks Derek Heimforth!)
 
Play more, do more. Love Hero Games!

Love that old Hero material. Don’t blame you