New Life for Old Editions?

[Joe Walsh]

Since some of the other classic games have gotten premium reprints in recent years, I've dreamed of having the option of buying a reprinted 4e Champions BBB hardcover that's not from page scans (other than of the artwork) but from a modern recreation of the original layout -- with all errata integrated.

 

It would require paying someone for data entry, copy editing, and layout, at the least.

 

Last time I knew anything about those costs was in the mid-90s. Does anyone have an idea of what getting such a project ready for printing would cost these days?

 

It would be so great to have the BBB (and ideally all the 2e and 3e games) available again as though they were brand new, not just for those of us who use them regularly, but for people who fondly remember them and any gamers who may prefer the approach of an older edition. It would also possibly raise HERO's profile a bit in the wider gaming community.

 

I can dream, anyway.😁

[Chris Goodwin]

I asked someone who does layout work a couple of years ago.  He quoted around $4 a page, assuming we had high DPI scans of the artwork (2400 is best).  I'd expect that figure to be higher now.  

[Joe Walsh]

Thank you! That gives us a start.

 

The 4e BBB has a total of 352 pages with ink on 'em, so if we assume $5/page that's $1760 for layout. Call it $2k. Very doable so far! And theoretical projects for2e Champions, Espionage!, 3e Champions, Danger International, Justice Inc., etc would be even more affordable on a per-project basis, assuming there would be demand for new prints of any of them.

 

I wonder how much data entry and copy editing would cost per page.  🤔  Back in the 90s, we were paid a pittance for writing supplements for Marc Miller's Traveller, and I gather that hasn't changed much in the intervening time. I wonder if copy editing has become better paid now.

 

[SCUBA Hero]

Kickstarter?

[Steve]

I suspect this would have to be a labor of love rather than a quest for profits.

[Tjack]

 I once saw the BBB on the Trove.  Full resolution, color, the whole 9 yds.  That site is dead now but that file must be kicking around somewhere.  If we got a copy of that for free wouldn’t that just be returning stolen property?  And a lot cheaper?

[Joe Walsh]

15 hours ago, SCUBA Hero said:

Kickstarter?

 

That's probably the only way it would ever happen -- unless we somehow coalesce and "crowd fund" it ourselves.

 

15 hours ago, Steve said:

I suspect this would have to be a labor of love rather than a quest for profits.

 

Definitely.

 

13 hours ago, Tjack said:

 I once saw the BBB on the Trove.  Full resolution, color, the whole 9 yds.  That site is dead now but that file must be kicking around somewhere.  If we got a copy of that for free wouldn’t that just be returning stolen property?  And a lot cheaper?

 

Oooh. That would be very nice to have!

 

Failing that, I have the old Hero Plus Rulesbook PDF. It has its own set of errors apart from those in the published versions, and the image scans are very low res (understandable for the time). Not sure if it would make a helpful starting point, or if re-entering the text and tables from scratch would be easier than starting from that old PDF.

[SCUBA Hero]

I have a paper copy of the BBB.  Could either scan that or send it to a layout person...

[Joe Walsh]

I'd hate to sacrifice one of my precious paper copies (or yours!), but if we had to...

 

Of course, there are the scan-to-PDF copies that HERO Games sells, which I have thanks to their deal with Bundle of Holding a while back. I'm not sure how useful they are given the way text is treated in PDF scans that have been OCR'd -- every line ends in a line feed, nothing's treated as a paragraph, etc. Or maybe that doesn't matter? My ignorance on layout software is Grand Canyon sized unfortunately.

 

[SCUBA Hero]

Um... I wasn't considering sacrificing it, just lending it for hi-res scans.  Or is that a destructive process?

[Joe Walsh]

14 hours ago, SCUBA Hero said:

Um... I wasn't considering sacrificing it, just lending it for hi-res scans.  Or is that a destructive process?

 

I've never done it, but I've been told that to get a good scan of a hardcover or perfectbound book, you have to cut the pages from the binding.

 

[SCUBA Hero]

:Tucks BBB back into the safe and closes the door:

 

Yeah, not doing that.

 

On 4/14/2022 at 7:55 PM, Tjack said:

 I once saw the BBB on the Trove.  Full resolution, color, the whole 9 yds.  That site is dead now but that file must be kicking around somewhere.  If we got a copy of that for free wouldn’t that just be returning stolen property?  And a lot cheaper?

 

I used the Wayback Machine and found a high-quality pdf of the BBB, which I downloaded under the theory of Fair Use, as I own a paper copy and am not distributing it.  If this turns out to be not the case, I'll delete it.  So that may be usable (I can't tell by looking what DPI it is)...

[Duke Bushido]

Guys:

 

Spence sent me,a debound 4e,for making high-res scans akin to what I did for 4e Western HERO.  I had intended,to get them scanned over the Christmas break and soend the next couple,of monrhs cleaning then up.

 

Unfortunately, I am married, meaning I havent had a day off in twenty-odd years.  Off from work?  Yes.  A day of my,very own?  No; not really.    western HERO got done when she was working nights.  She dowsnt work nighta anymore. 

 

still, it will get done; just bear with me.

 

 

[Joe Walsh]

Sounds great!

 

And as a fellow married man, I completely understand. We have to plan in years what others plan in months or days. 😅

[SCUBA Hero]

Duke, before you start scanning I'd like to show you a page or two from the hi-res scan of the BBB that I have.  Unfortunately, the complete pdf is ~50mB and I don't know how to scrape off a page or two to send to you...

[Joe Walsh]

Hmm. That sounds like the 600dpi "Christian Fasy" version that's available on DTRPG and which weighs in at 49.9 mb. I think I got my copy through a Bundle of Holding offer.

[Duke Bushido]

Yep.  A high quality (and I do mine at a minimum of 600; I prefer 1200 for the initial cleanup, but 600 seems to be the minimum for a nice clean print.  300 looks okay, but 600 is ideal) scan is _huge_.  After the scan, there are things you can do to still to reduce the file size as you move it into a PDF,  but not a lot.

 

At 30 dpi, it looks great on almost any monitor, but you have got to go to ten times that for nice print.

 

 

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Although it possesses your computer and is annoying as hell, Dropbox can handle huge files like that.

[Duke Bushido]

"Posses" is the most accurate description I have seen for dropbox! 

 

it got so bad I uninstalled ir completely and mailed Jason a flash drive.

 

0/10 stars.  Do not recommend.  

 

 

[Sketchpad]

I would love to see a 4th ed reprint with modern design sensibilities. Nice color pages, beautiful colored illustrations, well organized headers and chapters, etc.

[Joe Walsh]

An an index at least as good as the one Stanley A. Mitchell produced in the early 90s!