How were the costs for Normal Senses arrived at?

[Nermbley]

I've been trying to do the math, and I can't figure out how to arrive at the prices listed for Normal Senses (pg 209). Could someone explain?

[Christopher R Taylor]

I think they were bought using the sense rules (detect, ranged, discriminatory, etc).  Voice is just guesswork, I'd think.

[Chris Goodwin]

They were determined using the value of a Physical Complication of lacking the missing sense.

[Ndreare]

Want there a PDF were Steven S Long broke them out?

 

I thought there was also one with Talents done the same way.

[SCUBA Hero]

This is discussed in 6e1p208-209.

[Nermbley]

1 hour ago, SCUBA Hero said:

This is discussed in 6e1p208-209.

I see that section, but I can't figure out how the numbers in the "The Cost Of Standard Senses" sidebar came about. Sight, for instance, is specified in that sidebar as costing 35 points, and in the main senses section as having the features Discriminatory, Range, Sense, and Targeting. But 10-point Detect Physical Objects + 5 for discriminatory + 5 for range + 2 for sense + 5 for targeting=37, not 35. There are a few slightly different ways of building it, depending on what tier you classify the detect as, and whether you use the single sense prices or the sense group prices, but I don't see any way of getting 35. So where did that number come from?

[unclevlad]

Sense is free....and your total would actually be 27.

 

The costs are tricky.  First, since all the built-in senses have both Sense and limited Discriminatory, I'm not sure they're even factored in.  As Hugh noted, I think the root cost is tied to the complication value.  25 points would get you Very Frequently, Greatly Impairing.  5 more for it being a targeting sense, and 5 more for Range...that's 35 for Sight.  For hearing, take your pick...decrease the frequency or the degree of impairment...deaf is usually easier to work around, I think (not *easy*, just easier than blind)...so I think it's got 20 points, plus 5 for range. 

[Lord Liaden]

20 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

They were determined using the value of a Physical Complication of lacking the missing sense.

 

According to Hero System Fifth Edition, Revised p. 349: "Although normal Senses, those which all humans possess, are not exactly "Powers" per se, you can derive a point value for one by determining the Physical Limitation value of not having it. For example, the Physical Limitation Blindness (lack of Sight Group Senses) affects a character All The Time and is Fully Impairing, so it's a 25-point Disadvantage. Therefore, Normal Sight as a Power is worth 25 points."

 

In the change from Fifth Edition Disadvantages to Sixth Edition Complications, the value of All The Time plus Fully Impairing increased to 35 points.

[Steve]

As a side note, some interesting builds can be done by selling off normal senses and buying special ones. For example, selling back Normal Sight and buying IR Vision or selling back Normal Hearing and buying Ultrasonic Hearing.

[unclevlad]

11 hours ago, Steve said:

As a side note, some interesting builds can be done by selling off normal senses and buying special ones. For example, selling back Normal Sight and buying IR Vision or selling back Normal Hearing and buying Ultrasonic Hearing.

 

I would require you to buy them as Detects.  IR and Ultrasonic are priced as adders.  

 

Plus, these would be very, very limited by comparison.  IR is rather indistinct;  it wouldn't readily let you distinguish most objects in a room.  Can't see an image on a monitor.  Ultrasound, can't hear anyone speaking to you.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

I would require you to buy them as Detects.  IR and Ultrasonic are priced as adders.  

 

That is a really good analysis.  Its fine to complicate away your senses, but then you have to start from scratch to make others work in their place.