How would you build a Smart Bomb?

[McCoy]

Or any other self-guided, lock on, fire and forget weapon?

 

Only think coming to mind is "no range modifier" and extra levels built into the weapon. But how many levels? 5? To conteract martial dodge? Less? More?

 

Or is there a more elegant solution that I'm overlooking?

[Gary]

Re: How would you build a Smart Bomb?

 

Originally posted by McCoy

Or any other self-guided, lock on, fire and forget weapon?

 

Only think coming to mind is "no range modifier" and extra levels built into the weapon. But how many levels? 5? To conteract martial dodge? Less? More?

 

Or is there a more elegant solution that I'm overlooking?

 

The way that Hero Games usually represents it, is to purchase each bomb as a separate vehicle. After "fired", it keeps chasing the target until it gets a hit or is destroyed.

[Outsider]

You could do it as a Summon too, probably.

[Captain Obvious]

No range mod and one hex accurate, maybe?

 

The old 3rd ed Danger International had guided missiles set up with a flat OCV. I don't remember what sort of modifiers it took other than that...maybe none. Someone with a copy might be able to help.

[badger3k]

I knew the books were kept for a reason!

 

Here's some - guided missiles, such as a sidewinder, sparrow, pheonix, maverick, and improved hawk had attack rolls - a number that they needed to roll to hit. They ranged from 12 to 14. Roll under that and its a hit.

 

Tows and Dragoons (anti-tank man-fired and guided) had no bonuses to hit anything.

 

The other way is to buy both area effect (one-hex accurate) and area effect (radius) to get the targetting of one individual, but a large enough area so that the target can't duck for cover. I think it's in one of the books or the faq, but it's an official source. I don't believe it can be done in HD v2 without using the custom modifiers (I tried a little bit back).

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Outsider

You could do it as a Summon too, probably.

Yeah, the Nega-Beams from USPD are built as a Summon that keeps going until it hits its target.

[Kristopher]

General FYI, there's not a single guided weapon in the real world that makes multiple passes at its target. It's one of those stupid movie things, where missiles keep looping around after an airplane over and over again. It just doesn't work that way.

[McCoy]

Originally posted by Monolith

Yeah, the Nega-Beams from USPD are built as a Summon that keeps going until it hits its target.

Had consulted the USPD before posting, missed that one. Guess that is the "official" answer (or an "official" answer), but still seems inelegant. Wouldn't something Summoned need its own DEX and SPD? Why aren't all attacks defined as "extradimensional force" (ex, Cyclopse's eye beams or any Darkforce power) bought this way for the 5 to 1 point advantage?

[McCoy]

Originally posted by Kristopher

General FYI, there's not a single guided weapon in the real world that makes multiple passes at its target. It's one of those stupid movie things, where missiles keep looping around after an airplane over and over again. It just doesn't work that way.

And? There are no men who fly or fire lasers from their eyes in the real world either. We're talking the four color super hero reality here.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by McCoy

Had consulted the USPD before posting, missed that one. Guess that is the "official" answer (or an "official" answer), but still seems inelegant. Wouldn't something Summoned need its own DEX and SPD?

Well, yes. Wouldn't something that runs around on its own trying to hit something also need a DEX and SPD?

 

IMO, Summon or a Vehicle are definitely the ways to go.

[Mephron]

Originally posted by McCoy

Why aren't all attacks defined as "extradimensional force" (ex, Cyclopse's eye beams or any Darkforce power) bought this way for the 5 to 1 point advantage?

 

Last I looked, Cyclops's eyebeams just go straight out. Sure, he can use the visor to slap a cone advantage on them, but they're all based on him. Same with the Darkforce - the power itself is not chasing the person.

 

 

The eyebeams there are more based on Darkseid from the DC Universe, who has the Omega Force - the eyebeams can follow anyone, anywhere, and eventually catches up... at which point it may destroy them or just teleport them.

[Outsider]

there is also a problem with rate of fire.

 

One has to summon AND control. A failed control would result in either a wild shot, or a premature detonation. They also fire off at half the rate that the eye-beams do. And they can be shot down, outrun, or decoyed.

 

Its not all roses.

[sbarron]

Originally posted by McCoy

How would you build a Smart Bomb?

Great job, McCoy! Herogames website is certainly on an FBI watch list now.

 

Do you suppose any agents will be converted?

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: How would you build a Smart Bomb?

 

Originally posted by McCoy

Or any other self-guided, lock on, fire and forget weapon?

 

Only think coming to mind is "no range modifier" and extra levels built into the weapon. But how many levels? 5? To conteract martial dodge? Less? More?

 

Or is there a more elegant solution that I'm overlooking?

Couldn't you just give it an INT of 10+?

[McCoy]

Originally posted by sbarron

Great job, McCoy! Herogames website is certainly on an FBI watch list now.

 

Do you suppose any agents will be converted?

Like it wasn't before. Probably hit the NGD board a dozen times a day.

 

What does anyone think of this?

 

Smart Bomb

 

Player:

 

Val	Char	Cost
0	STR	-10
38	DEX	84
0	CON	-20
0	BODY	-20
13	INT	3
0	EGO	0
0	PRE	-10
0	COM	-5
0	PD	0
0	ED	0
10	SPD	52
0	REC	0
0	END	0

6" RUN02" SWIM00" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 74

 

Cost	Power	END
50	Target Lock: Detect Target 22- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Increased Arc of Perception, Range, Sense, Targeting Sense, Tracking
58	Warhead: RKA 13d6, Explosion (+1/2), Nonselective Target (-1/4), Trigger (Detonates when reaches target; +1/4) (292 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), 1 Charge (-2)
60	Automaton (Takes No STUN)
105	Flight 30", No Turn Mode (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (105 Active Points)

Powers Cost: 273

 

 

Cost	Skill
3	Combat Piloting 17-

Skills Cost: 3

 

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 350

 

 

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 150

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

[Dr. Anomaly]

The only problem I can see is that any hit that does body is going to severly damage it, as it has NO defense of any kind. Of course, maybe that's what you want...one hit and it folds like a cheap accordian.

 

Of course, if I were the military or a super-villain, I'd put a little armor plating on the thing...

[Lord Liaden]

The Dr. may have a point. I do see that it's going to be destroyed after one use, which is what you'd expect from a bomb, but with 0 BODY it's going to "die" if it takes a single point of BODY damage, and without any DEF that's practically guaranteed from any hit. Do you really want it to be that easy to shoot down?

 

As for your warhead, it would be appropriate to take "No Range" for it; the bomb should be the center of the explosion when it impacts on its target.

[Trebuchet]

I strongly dislike the "No Turn Mode" on its Flight; a character should at least have some chance to outmaneuver a bomb. For a bomb (as opposed to a cruise missile or surface to air missile) I think Gliding would be more properly representative than Flight. After all, a bomb can't climb back up and reenter the bomber. I'd do it as Gliding, Cannot Climb or travel level: -1/2. Extra Time to represent the travel time from the bomber to the point of impact would seem reasonable as well. You can save points if you wish by using No Non-Combat Multiple, and possibly sell back half of the movement speed as well because since this thing will always be diving it can double its velocity for free.

 

It's DEX is much higher than necessary, even smart bombs have only limited capability to make course corrections. That's why they drop them from high up, so they have time to make necessary changes in course to hit their target. I'd give it a 13 DEX with a couple of skill levels and No Range Modifier on the RKA. After all, smart bombs target an individual hex (DCV 3), so it doesn't need to be outrageously fast. The defenses are just fine, any solid hit on a bomb would make it blow up anyway. One or two points of Armor would be sufficient.

 

Honestly? I think it's big time overkill. 13d6 EX RKA would be, at least according to some on these boards, a low yield nuclear weapon. Is that what you wanted? IMNSHO, there are more interesting methods of killing PCs than just using a deus ex machina to smite them from above.

 

All of these comments are assuming you wanted to actually build a bomb as opposed to a missile.

[McCoy]

Yes, it is more a missile than a bomb. Yes, I think it could be shot down but not outrun, and with a 13 DCV it should not be too tough, any hit in midair should destroy (not detonate) it.

 

The no range and no noncombat movement have been added, and savings applied to flight. Thanks everyone for your input.

[Outsider]

I dont have 5th Ed rules, but under 4th Ed, I would :

 

1) Bump it to speed 12 so its easier to keep track of in combat (it moves every phase)

 

2) I would also sell off the running and swimming (why have them?)

 

3) Drop the dex immensely (Once it is up to speed (4 segments/phases) its DCV based on velocity (1440 hexes/turn) will be 13 anyway, the same as what the 38 dex gave it) and it is, after all, probably aiming at a hex anyway.

 

4) Give it a more complex trigger to represent adjustable and variable proximity fusing. (by which I mean when you launch it, you can either set it to go on impact, OR you can adjust it to go off when it reaches a certain distance from its target. The variable portion would allow you to set it to change its own proximity rule depending on situation. (such as : if your target evades you, the proximity requirement becomes less stringent on the next pass) You ARE dealing with a very large explosion. No need to actually require impact. It also allows you to put in a couple failsafes, like "NEVER detonate in the first 2 phases of your flight (when the person launching it is within the blast radius!) and possibly "Automatically detonate if your flight or targetting systems stop working"

 

5) Change Piloting to Navigation. Flight is an inherent power of this "creature" it doesnt need a skill to use it. Finding its way to a distant target, though, might require Navigation.

 

6) Have at least ONE body. An automaton is destroyed when its negative Body equals its normal Body. -0 = 0. A mere 2 character points avoids the loophole, and also provides the possiblity of a damaged and out of control missile flying around, if it takes only 1 body

 

7) Buy the Automaton Power as the 45 point one. The missile has so little body that it will -probably- be destroyed anyway if it gets hit. The added utility of not losing functions if it does take body is very small.

 

8) Add at least a touch of Defences, so it isnt vulnerable to the weakest of counterattacks. (remember to triple the cost since it is a full on automaton)

 

 

Smart Bomb

 

Player:

 

Val Char Cost

0 STR -10

8 DEX -6

0 CON -20

1 BODY -18

5 INT -5

0 EGO 0

0 PRE -10

0 COM -5

 

3 PD 9

3 ED 9

12 SPD 102

0 REC 0

0 END 0

 

0" RUN -12

0" SWIM -2

0" LEAP 0

Characteristics Cost: 32

 

Cost Power END

50 Target Lock: Detect Target 22- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Increased Arc of Perception, Range, Sense, Targeting Sense, Tracking

 

68 (390) Warhead: RKA 13d6

________(+1/2) Explosion (+1/2)

________(+1/2) Trigger*

________(-1/4) Nonselective Target

________(-2) No Conscious Control

________(-2) Charges- 1 Charge

________(1/2) No Range

 

45 (45) Automaton (Takes No STUN)

 

43 (65) Flight 30", 4xNCM (540mph top speed)

_________(-1/2) Charges - 1 Continuing 1 hour charge (540 mile range)

 

9 Resistant Defence - 3/3

 

Powers Cost: 215

 

 

Cost Skill

15 Navigation with 6 levels 17-

 

Skills Cost: 15

 

 

 

 

Total Character Cost: 262

 

 

Base Points: 200

Experience Required: 62

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

 

 

 

 

 

 

Id like to shave off 12 more points somewhere to make it an even 250, but I'd have to work on it even more.

 

 

PS : Do you think it would be TOO cheesy to take "Charge Never Recovers" on the Warhead?

[SirViss]

Before I start, I just want to ask what the purpose for this bomb is? (In the campaign. I know bombs are meant to blow things up... )

 

Here are some of my thoughts:

 

I would build it as a vehicle. A vehilce has all the stats you used for your bomb, except Int, and the TUV book suggests that you could add Int to a vehicle if you don't want to go through the trouble of making a computer (have to make a Template in HD though, I think). And vehicles cannot be stunned, so you don't need the Automaton (Takes No STUN) power. If you don't make is as a vehicle, at least take the 45 pts variant of the power. Sure, it should loose some power every time it takes Body damage, but that isn't a problems, as 1 Body Damage and its destroyed.

 

38 Dex is kind of high. If you are buying it that high so that it has a high CV (moslty DCV, I think), then just buy a bunch of 2 pts Movement levels. Those can augment the vehicles DCV if it Dodges, or reduce the Turn Mode, or augment acceleration/Deceleration. Of course that assumes that it will try to Dodge which would mean that until in gets close enough for final approach (less than on Full Move away), it would only do Half Move and save a phase, or just Dodge. Makes for dramatic moment though. On it last phase, not being able to Dodge, the characters have their best chance to blow it up before it reaches its Target! (Using held action.)

 

I won't touch much on the Speed. That is HIGH! Maybe lower the Speed and boost the movement?

 

Target Lock: Being an unusual sense, this makes the missile practically impossible to spoof! Just want to know what sensors it would be using. Also why Discriminatory and Analyze? It is Detect Target, so the job of the sense woudl be to Detect the target. Unless this missile is completely on its own and there is no one to assign its target. (One of the reasons I would like to know the purpose of the missile in the campaign.)

 

Well you don't need to have a high OCV with this anyways. With Trigger, all you have to do is enter the a Hex of the Target and BOOM! TRÈS nasty!

 

With 13 DCV, 10 Speed, 38 Dex, and sensors built as an unusal sense, you have made a weapon that HAS to be blown up (probably with an AoE attack). What are you going to do (or have already done) to your poor players!

[Trebuchet]

I sorta assume it's a "Kill the PC" kind of weapon. I can't see any other rationale for it's outrageous SPD, DEX and unjammable Senses. Plus as a 13d6 EX RKA it has the same explosive force as the Hiroshima bomb according to those who consider 36DCs to be a small nuke. It can't be outmaneuvered or outrun even though its maximum air speed should be terminal velocity, it can't be outthought, it can hit a flea's arse at almost two kilometers range, and provides a virtually guaranteed kill of almost any non-brick PC who is within a hex or two of Ground Zero. Except for the fact that it explodes, it's resemblance to a real-world smart bomb is nil. So much for reverse engineering a Power from special effect. Certainly calling it a smart bomb is deceptive; it's really an Overkill Missileâ„¢.

 

Personally, as a GM I just use a bolt of lightning from on high as evidence of Divine Displeasure.

[Outsider]

I chose not to make any judgements about the scale of the attack...He may not be playing a regular 350 point game.

[lemming]

Originally posted by Outsider

I chose not to make any judgements about the scale of the attack...He may not be playing a regular 350 point game.

Same here. Though it's still a mighty hefty attack.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Outsider

I chose not to make any judgements about the scale of the attack...He may not be playing a regular 350 point game.

That's reasonable. My objections are more centered around the fact that I strongly dislike unavoidable attacks. If he just wants to hurt the players for some plot purpose a carefully planted stationary bomb detonated under their feet will do the job without all the phony pretense that it's a "smart bomb." A big dumb land mine will do the trick.