Golden Age Japan

[FenrisUlf]

Or more appropriately, GA Japanese villains. Why don't you ever hear anything about them? Old Nazi villains show up all the time, but evil Nihonjin militarists who killed POWs and massacred hapless Chinese seem to be ignored.

 

I'm asking here because I saw a History Channel special the other night covering the gruesome side of WW2 in the Pacific. The Japanese were easily the equal of the Nazis when it came to inhumanity, and I might go so far as to say they were worse. (After all, how many Nazis ate human flesh? That's something Japanese military officers and Kempetai members did... routinely in some instances.) And the freed POWs looked like Jews in Buchenwald.

 

Just wondering if anyone knows why this gets downplayed as much as it does in comics and the rest of the modern media. Or, for that matter, why it gets downplayed in those few WW2 superhero RPGs I can remember.

[Chuckg]

The die-hard Nazis surrendered or fled to hatch their evil schemes anew, but the Nihonjin villains fought to the last man? That would be an appropriate Golden Age trope.

[Agent X]

Re: Golden Age Japan

 

Originally posted by FenrisUlf

Or more appropriately, GA Japanese villains. Why don't you ever hear anything about them? Old Nazi villains show up all the time, but evil Nihonjin militarists who killed POWs and massacred hapless Chinese seem to be ignored.

 

I'm asking here because I saw a History Channel special the other night covering the gruesome side of WW2 in the Pacific. The Japanese were easily the equal of the Nazis when it came to inhumanity, and I might go so far as to say they were worse. (After all, how many Nazis ate human flesh? That's something Japanese military officers and Kempetai members did... routinely in some instances.) And the freed POWs looked like Jews in Buchenwald.

 

Just wondering if anyone knows why this gets downplayed as much as it does in comics and the rest of the modern media. Or, for that matter, why it gets downplayed in those few WW2 superhero RPGs I can remember.

It gets downplayed in history because the Japanese are our friends and because their atrocities impacted less familiar cultures to the average American than the European culture the Nazis affected.

 

From a Golden Age Comics POV - I would use all the same tricks as the Nazis - searches for hidden lands, eugenics, mysticism, etc. to build a host of Japanese Hero/Villains. The trick is you are probably less familiar with their culture so it's more work.

[freakboy6117]

plus the nazis have much nicer uniforms no katanas but nicer uniforms.

 

this reminds me of my favorite over head conversation whilst staying in a youth hostel in london. i'm sitting reading Harry Potter in the recroom and at the next table some scottish bloke is loudly and slightly drunkenly explaining to two japanese backpackers, how the japanese ate his grandfather during wwII. you just don't get stuff like that in proper hotels.

 

 

anyway japanese villains either died to the last man or went into buisness and became respectable buisness men or at least seemingly respectable but secretly plotting the wests downfall with thier army of robot ninja. Unlike there nazi colleuges who insist on wearing there uniforms and trying to ressurect the riech every weekend.

[Lord Liaden]

I've used a few Japanese "legacy" characters from Golden Age Champions in my campaigns. The grandson of the GA super "Kamikaze" was an NPC hero, while the sorceress/weredragon Shinyu was still active, having matured to become a true champion and one of Japan's greatest defenders.

 

The Champions: New Millennium setting presented an intriguing concept: a joint Nazi Germany/Imperial Japan project to set up an island in the Pacific for conducting genetic experiments to create superbeings. The results ranged from monsters to "perfect humans." After the War the island was cut off from the outside world and developed its own society and culture, with both strong European and Oriental influences. The New Millennium Seeker came from there.

[Chuckg]

*hides*

 

Sorry, Rob Liefield Ninja Death Seeker always did that to me.

[yamamura]

Also there is the fact that the US did a wonderful PR job to the Japanese people about how the war wasn't their fault but that of a corrupt government (of course this logic is why the common Japanese don't see why they need to atone for Nanking and other terrible things from WWII). So if we take a hero of Japan (ie. a villain to the America) after the war he would be expcected to believe that he was duped by his government and thus not a war criminal. In fact he might be expected to serve the occupational forces as a symbol of Japan's willingess to work with the US.

 

BTW this would be an excellent chance for a Gentleman Jim style character. A noble superhero who took up the calling to protect the homeland. During the war he see the crimes commited in Nanking and in the Pacific against POW and it will cause him much pain. On one hand he knows what they are doing is wrong, but on the other he did pledge his alliengence to the Emperor. This may cause him to risk his life in hopes of dying honourbly or just fading away once the war was over.

 

Now somebody who was truly pro-military might be a different story and if he hadn't died in battle, he would most likely be tried as a war criminal. If he avoid capture, he may try to come up with schemes to return Japan to its former glory and may end up becoming the adversary of the Noble Hero of Japan.

 

G

[Kzinbane]

One coud try another spin...

It was not too terribly infrequent back in the late 40s and into the 50's (in fact I think the last one came out on his own in the early 60's) for a Japanese soldier to be hiding on one of the previously invaded islands. That last one was in the Phillipines, and still thought the war was going on.

What if one (or more) managed to come across some sort of device or alien craft or whatever that grants them super powers?

 

Look around today and the Nazi evil endures still - 60 years after the war! There is no Japanese counterpart in existance - not even close, and there has not been for a long time.

 

Hey, why not any Italian Golden age Vilains - Italy was in WW2 also!

[assault]

Re: Golden Age Japan

 

Originally posted by FenrisUlf

(After all, how many Nazis ate human flesh? That's something Japanese military officers and Kempetai members did... routinely in some instances.)

 

And a whole bunch of Japanese troops starved to death.

 

Besides, what's the big deal about eating human flesh? You sound like you've got some kind of taboo going here.

 

For what it's worth, allied troops weren't noted for attempting to take Japanese troops prisoner. A lot of Japanese "suicides" were assisted.

[Rhen]

RE: Golden Age Japanese Villains

 

For what it's worth, anyone who wants a good idea of a POST-Golden Age villain organization should read TENGU by Graham Masterson, if you can get your hands on a copy. Very chilling portrayal of what might have happened to any Golden Age Japanese "heroes".

 

Rhen

[assault]

Well, if you really want to know...

 

A whole bunch of Japanese supervillains moved to Australia after the war and began training swashbuckling ninjas.

 

Their theory was that the swashbucklers would all get killed off, leaving Australia without superpowered defenders, and vulnerable to a future attack by a resurgent Japan.

 

And yes, some of them went to the US too. Who do you think trained Captain Duckhat?

 

...

 

More seriously, of course, there is always Golden Age Champions. A few other characters can be lifted from the DC and Marvel universes. Failing that, just stick in a whole buncha wannabe ninjas.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Re: Golden Age Japan

 

Originally posted by assault

And a whole bunch of Japanese troops starved to death.

 

Besides, what's the big deal about eating human flesh? You sound like you've got some kind of taboo going here.

 

For what it's worth, allied troops weren't noted for attempting to take Japanese troops prisoner. A lot of Japanese "suicides" were assisted.

 

I'll take a chance and 'assume' this is mainly meant as sarcasm, Assault.

 

As far as 'take no prisoners' goes, yes, a lot of US troops in the Pacific were vindictive (or so my uncle informed me), but any nasty behavior was usually restricted to the battlefield, typically immediatly after a fight was finished -- and it might have had as much to do with the nature of the US troops (they weren't pros, the way many of the Japanese and European troops were).

 

There were also some massacres in Europe of German troops, but many of them involved Americans killing the guards at death camps, or the first German troops they ran across after liberating same.

 

And no, I'm not saying all Japanese soldiers were monsters. Some did try to follow the older Bushido code, and many of them got in trouble for being 'soft'.

[FenrisUlf]

And oh yes, thanks for all the responses here, been a big help.

 

One of the reasons I asked was I was thinking of making a Japanese villainous/agent group that wanted to get even with the Allies for the near-destruction of Japan during the war. Just wanted to do somethng different from the usual 'South American Nazis out to conquer the world' deal.

[Darren Watts]

Our home GA campaign, which is serving in many ways as the basis for the CU setting, included dozens of Japanese characters with a wide range of motivations, from the irredeemably evil Iron Father, through the faithful but kind-of-dim Brothers Murasashi, to the noble but misguided Tasho. Most of those will show up in Golden Age Champions, soon to be seen on a publishing schedule near you! dw

[wcw43921]

I remember reading in a letter column of The Invaders (Marvel's super-team book set in the Golden Age, scripted by Roy Thomas) a question about why all the Axis villains were modern creations, and why they didn't use Golden Age villains.

 

The answer, if I remember right, was that there were very, very few Golden Age Axis villains--the Red Skull being one of them. The Golden Age heroes who fought in the war fought against legions of ordinary (albeit stereotypical) Axis troops and their commanders, who fell before them like blades of grass before a lawnmower.

 

Also--while I could see a Japanese superbeing willingly serving the Emperor, I really couldn't see a Nazi superbeing willingly serving the Fuehrer--after all, the entire Nazi ideology revolves around the strong and powerful ruling over the weak and helpless. What keeps an Ubermensch from deciding he should be in charge of the Reich?

 

Unless--there's some sort of mind control involved:

 

HITLER: "Look into my eyes--I am your Fuehrer--You will serve me and the Third Reich!"

 

STURMVOGEL: "I--I--Yes, I will serve the Reich! HEIL HITLER!"

 

Anyone got a better explanation?

[Darren Watts]

Good Nazi villains tend to come in two types- "good soldiers," who support the ideology and believe their leaders are in fact wiser and more suited to rule then they themselves (usually these guys make up the cores of Nazi teams, like Ubermensch or Grosshorn Eule from DC or Agent Axis from Marvel), and mastermind-types who may temporarily be working for Hitler but intend to overthrow him themselves eventually. (Red Skull, Baron Zemo, Captain Nazi and Baron Blitzkrieg all fall into the latter camp. ) Which is not to say there isn't room for other villain types- Sea Wolf was a murderous psychopath who would have worked for anyone who gave him freedom to raise havoc, and Gudra the Valkyrie was both a German patriot and under orders from Wotan.

 

And yeah, there weren't many costumed villains on the Axis side in GA comics. Frankly, readers didn't want to see the enemy have a neat costume or remarkable powers, and they certainly didn't want to see them succeed at anything, so the enemies were rarely credible threats. Captain Nazi from Fawcett was a rare exception, being nearly as powerful as Captain Marvel himself, and the Red Skull was a crafty, sneaky assassin in his GA appearances who frequently escaped Cap's clutches (and always had recordings of Chopin playing while committing baffling murders, an effectively creepy touch out of the pulps.) dw

[Bengal]

The reason not a lot of golden age japanese villains have survived to the modern day is because they are on the whole a group of chracatures the likes of which we did not see in their Western counterparts. yellow skin, slinty eyes, no command over the letter L, stupid plots and costumes and what-have-you that more enlightened (if generally as stupid) editors have decided to leave in the past. Except for the lone case of Blackhawk, who keeps getting brought back as a back-up feature in various flagging DC titles over the years, to bash the heck out of stereotypical and otherwise craptastic villains.

 

You know, now that I think of it, I can only think of one good Asian master villain worth anything, and that's the Mandarin, from China. He's a lot like those old characatures, but he's been streamlined little by little, and retconned as well in order to be basically palatable, and a good foe for Iron Man besides. And as an added bonus, his rings no longer look like he got them out of a gumball machine.

[FenrisUlf]

Originally posted by Darren Watts

Our home GA campaign, which is serving in many ways as the basis for the CU setting, included dozens of Japanese characters with a wide range of motivations, from the irredeemably evil Iron Father, through the faithful but kind-of-dim Brothers Murasashi, to the noble but misguided Tasho. Most of those will show up in Golden Age Champions, soon to be seen on a publishing schedule near you! dw

 

OOh, I'll be glad to see that. I'm especially curious about 'Iron Father'; I get the image of someone like DC's Dragon King (who helped establish the anti-superhero wall around AXis Europe/Asia in the Dc universe, as I recall).

 

And will everyone's favorite Dragon Lady Shinyu be coming back when you do GA Champions?

[Powerhouse]

You might want to consider how sterotypical you want the characters to be. In a GA campaign that slants towards 4 color, that might not be a bad idea.

 

Consider a Japanese wizard who uses the classic elements of fire, water, earth, metal, and wood. Or you could make a team where each character embodies one of these traits.

 

How about someone of a samurai clan whose ancient sword imbues him with great power? Again, very sterotypical as would be a sun-based (Rising Sun) or water based one (Typhoon or Tsunami). Also consider Shinpu (Divine Wind) who can use control air currents.

[freakboy6117]

the best idea i came up with was a secret society of WW2 japanese genrals and the few surviving supervillains who have moved into civilian society politics buissness and the yakuza working on all levels to keep japan great and gain power for there eventual rightful return to dominance over all of the pacific and the world.

 

think of the danger posed by an organizatioob speasd across all those facets of life combining high tech manufacturing with yakuza theft of materials and street thugs and political protection to keep the investiagations down, media manipulation would keep the whole thing under cover.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Powerhouse

Consider a Japanese wizard who uses the classic elements of fire, water, earth, metal, and wood. Or you could make a team where each character embodies one of these traits.

 

Aaron Allston created just such a team for his Strike Force campaign, Yooso ("The Elements"). They're written up in Aaron's first edition Ninja HERO, which I recommend as a martial arts campaign sourcebook - although the combination of 5E UMA and NH is superior for that purpose IMO. Still, if you can find Mr. Allston's book cheap it's definitely worth it.

[assault]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Aaron Allston created just such a team for his Strike Force campaign, Yooso ("The Elements").

 

They were seriously scary characters too. I developed serious doubts about the effectiveness of my characters after seeing them.

 

My current "real" 450 point version of Assault was developed partly as a response to them. My various 350 point characters reflect this too.

 

Anyway, back on topic - they would certainly give WWII Japan some serious supermuscle. Eww!

[FenrisUlf]

This may be wandering slightly afield here, but those of you who want a group that could get involved with all sorts of shady mystical/political whatever in a pre and maybe post WW2 Japan and Asia might want to use the Black Dragon Society.

 

The BDS started out as a criminal/political gang that cribbed some weird Theosophical theories about Nihonjn being the lost God-Kings of Mu. They wanted to build an empire on continental Asia that would extend to the Amur ('Black Dragon') river in northern China. They included quite a few big shots in the Japanese military and civilian government (well, such a civilian government as Japan had by then) as well as a few ties to some of the Yakuza.

 

The BDS are supposed to have supported the Mad Baron of Mongolia, Ungern-Sternberg, during the Russian Civil War, and they did finance some archaeological expeditions to Central Asia to find ancient Buddhist scriptures. In a Champions world I could easily see them as the 'hidden masters' behind the Japanese militarists, and as having enough occult connections to maybe create a few superheroes/villains for Japan.