House Rule: EGO Link

[Derek Hiemforth]

I'm inviting thoughts and commentary on this house rule...

 

EGO Link

 

This Power Modifer causes a Power to be linked to the character's EGO in exactly the same manner that Powers are normally linked to DEX. A Power with EGO Link can be used at the character's EGO in the Combat Order, and (if it can be used offensively) the character's OCV with this Power is figured as EGO/3. All other aspects of the Power remain the same. (i.e., it still works against the same defenses as before, it still goes against the target's DCV, not their ECV, it still has normal range, normal range penalties, etc.) This Modifier is a +0 option.

[Edsel]

If I recall correctly (I am at work away from my books). There is already an optional rule that states if a character chooses to use an Ego-based power he can substitute his EGO for DEX, for purposes of determining when he acts in a Phase.

 

And if that is the case wouldn't the Based on EGO combat value, do pretty much the same thing? Of course BOECV is an advantage (+1/2 or something similiar) but a house rule making it a +0 is certainly fine if it fits your campaign.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Edsel

If I recall correctly (I am at work away from my books). There is already an optional rule that states if a character chooses to use an Ego-based power he can substitute his EGO for DEX, for purposes of determining when he acts in a Phase.

 

And if that is the case wouldn't the Based on EGO combat value, do pretty much the same thing? Of course BOECV is an advantage (+1/2 or something similiar) but a house rule making it a +0 is certainly fine if it fits your campaign.

 

Mine are upstairs and I'm feeling lazy This is pretty much what happens with Telekinesis right now -- you can decide whether it's DEX or EGO.

[Bengal]

Kind of reminds me of what they do in Mayfair's DC HEROES game, where you can get a point break by linking a power to an attribute- except each power has a specific link attribute.

 

Linking a power which is defined as a mental power to EGO makes sense.

[rjcurrie]

First of all, this is not really similar to BOECV, which is a +1, by the way. When you choose BOECV, the attack becomes ECV vs. ECV and you have a chose of whether the attack will go against the regular defense or against Mental Defense (chosen when the Power is created and cannot be changed later).

 

With Derek's EGO Link modifier, the attack effectively becomes ECV vs. DCV and still goes against the regular defense. This implies a power created and targeted by a character's mind. In fact, this is how I've always felt Green Lantern's abilities should be modeled in Hero.

 

As to the cost, +0 is probably appropriate.

[Nevenall]

This would also be useful for spells. That way mages don't need really high dex to hit with their firebolts.

I think you should consider making it +1/4, or +1/2 though, for two reasons. One, Ego is slightly less expensive then Dex and this PM would really encourage people to take more Ego. Second, is that the Age disadvantage gives you an increased Ego maximum. Probably not a big deal for, but there's this one guy in my campaign...

[sbarron]

Originally posted by Nevenall

This would also be useful for spells. That way mages don't need really high dex to hit with their firebolts.

I think you should consider making it +1/4, or +1/2 though, for two reasons. One, Ego is slightly less expensive then Dex and this PM would really encourage people to take more Ego. Second, is that the Age disadvantage gives you an increased Ego maximum. Probably not a big deal for, but there's this one guy in my campaign...

 

This is true. But Ego is on the whole less useful than Dex. I don't think there are any Ego based skills, but there are many for Dex. Dex is still used for DCV, and for Spd Calculation. I think +0 would work out fine.

[Nevenall]

True, I hadn't thought of it from Ego's point of view.

+0 makes the math easier too.

 

I once thought about an Power Limitation for an attack roll based solely on Constitution. for posion, and radiation and things.

The basic idea was you couldn't dodge the attack but you could make a Con roll to "block" it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Nevenall

This would also be useful for spells. That way mages don't need really high dex to hit with their firebolts.

I think you should consider making it +1/4, or +1/2 though, for two reasons. One, Ego is slightly less expensive then Dex and this PM would really encourage people to take more Ego. Second, is that the Age disadvantage gives you an increased Ego maximum. Probably not a big deal for, but there's this one guy in my campaign...

 

Actually, DEX and EGO effectively cost exactly the same amount...unless you're in the habit of lettimg your Speed round down.

 

I'd probably make it +1/4. It's not as strong as "line of sight", which is +1/2, it doesn't target the opponent's EGO, and you don't get a power defended by EGO def (which is +1 1/2 AVLD to get only this, or +1 to get all this plus much more BOECV ). The advantage in this case is that the character avoids the need to spend points on both DEX and EGO (he's unlikely to be using this if he doesn't already have a high EGO for some other reason).

 

TINSTAAFL

[Blue]

I've never been a proponent of substituting EGO for DEX, mostly because DEX costs more. By making your character a mentalist you're getting to go sooner for less points. Mechanically it makes sense to me that the mind would be quicker than the hand; Balancewise I don't allow it though.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Nevenall

This would also be useful for spells. That way mages don't need really high dex to hit with their firebolts.

Yep, this is exactly what originally spawned the idea.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Nevenall

I think you should consider making it +1/4, or +1/2 though, for two reasons. One, Ego is slightly less expensive then Dex

[snip]

Originally posted by Blue

I've never been a proponent of substituting EGO for DEX, mostly because DEX costs more.

As Hugh noted, DEX ultimately does not cost more than EGO in 99% of characters. Consider the following...

 

Mageboy

11 DEX (3 points)

20 EGO (20 points)

3 SPD (9 points)

Total Cost: 32 points

 

Swordsmanboy

20 DEX (30 points)

11 EGO (2 points)

3 SPD (0 points)

Total Cost: 32 points

 

The only time Mageboy would be less expensive would be if his SPD was allowed to round down. How often do you see that?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

The advantage in this case is that the character avoids the need to spend points on both DEX and EGO (he's unlikely to be using this if he doesn't already have a high EGO for some other reason).

But given the fact that (you noted) DEX and EGO ultimately cost the same 99% of the time, why should the high-EGO character be "penalized" by having to pay more for their power? I don't see how this is an advantage. True, the EGO-based character doesn't have to buy up his DEX in order to be competitive. But the DEX-based character doesn't have to buy up his EGO to be competitive either. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, isn't it?

[Killer Shrike]

Id be ok with it at a net -1/4, but with the corrolary that if you use the power at your EGO rather than your DEX order you cant make any physical action in conjunction. Plus DCV can be raised much easier than ECV, and can be temporarily increased further with Dodge and other Manuevers.

 

So effectively it becomes a "Full Phase Power" if its an Attack, in conjunction with "targeted by ECV vs DCV" and "Normal Defenses Apply"

 

This seems reasonable:

Mind Blades: 4d6 RKA vs PD (60 BC), Speed Of Thought (-1/4) = 48 RC

Notes: The character wills psychic blades into existance which streak off towards a chosen opponent.

 

Thus its a Full Phase Action which occurs in EGO order rather than DEX, and targets DCV with ECV.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Id be ok with it at a net -1/4, but with the corrolary that if you use the power at your EGO rather than your DEX order you cant make any physical action in conjunction.

That's how I run it even with the "value" set at +0. You cannot half-move and attack with an EGO Linked power, because the movement would occur on your DEX, not your EGO. (Unless, of course, you're using a movement power that has also been EGO Linked.)

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth

That's how I run it even with the "value" set at +0. You cannot half-move and attack with an EGO Linked power, because the movement would occur on your DEX, not your EGO. (Unless, of course, you're using a movement power that has also been EGO Linked.)

I completely agree with the idea in spirit, but I really see this as more of a mild limitation than a -0.

 

Also, I dont like the term "EGO Link" because as a label it blurs into the existing BOECV and Linked too much.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Also, I dont like the term "EGO Link" because as a label it blurs into the existing BOECV and Linked too much.

Do you have another suggestion? (I'm not necessarily 100% keen on the name either.)

[Blue]

Out of curiosity, do you retain EGO as your place in the attack order if you have gestures?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Blue

Out of curiosity, do you retain EGO as your place in the attack order if you have gestures?

Nope. If you have to do anything physical (including Gestures), then you have to wait for DEX. You can act on EGO if it has Incantations, however (since talking takes no time ).

 

The character can point his hand or some such, purely for effect, and that's okay; you can still go on EGO. But if something in the game mechanics of the power (like Gestures) require you to do some physical movement, then you have to wait for DEX.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth

Do you have another suggestion? (I'm not necessarily 100% keen on the name either.)

"Speed of Thought"?

[Derek Hiemforth]

What about "EGO Targetted"?

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth

What about "EGO Targetted"?

Eh...doesnt exactly roll off the tongue. Maybe find Hermit and have him start a poll?

[zornwil]

Interesting house rule. In one sense I can't really comment on it - my own house rule is that all actions in a phase are simultaneous! So order of combat is not so important, though it makes some difference still in seeing what people are doing. Still, even if you hit someone in their phase, they get their shot off, too. (Exceptions for heroic actions, like jumping in the way of a shot, that sort of thing, DEX roll required).

 

Anyway, I think it's useful, but I tend to give it a +1/4 because it opens the door to a lot of playing around with powers and EGO and I just think that EGO-based deserves a marginal advantage. Essentially you get a little faster on the draw (assuming of course you have a decent EGO) with powers for which this was never intended. It seems a little advantageous. +1/4 seems to fit.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by zornwil

Anyway, I think it's useful, but I tend to give it a +1/4 because it opens the door to a lot of playing around with powers and EGO and I just think that EGO-based deserves a marginal advantage.

But here's the problem...

 

Mageboy

11	DEX	3
20	EGO	20
4	SPD	19

50 Fire Bolt Spell: 8d6 Energy Blast, EGO Link (+1/4)

92 Total Cost

 

Energyboy

20	DEX	30
11	EGO	2
4	SPD	10

40 Firey Blast: 8d6 Energy Blast

82 Total Cost

 

These two characters are functionally identical. Why should Mageboy have to pay more points to be able to do exactly the same thing as Energyboy?

[Killer Shrike]

I think it should be:

 

Mageboy

11	DEX	3
20	EGO	20
4	SPD	19

32 Fire Bolt Spell: 8d6 Energy Blast, Speed of Thought (-1/4)

74 Total Cost

 

Energyboy

20	DEX	30
11	EGO	2
4	SPD	10

40 Firey Blast: 8d6 Energy Blast

82 Total Cost

 

because Energyboy can 1/2 Phase Move and Shoot at 20 "initiative" (or other 1/2 Phase Action and Shoot), while Mage Boy can just Shoot at 20 "initiative"