Demonsong Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Hello all, I want to create a spell that creates a sword (HKA) out of thin air. Now it is a spell so to create the sword requires the a magic skill roll, and the expenditure of mana (END Reserve). Now that the sword is made I want it to be there all day. At no cost in mana and I don’t want to have to make a magic skill roll every time I use the sword. But I want the sword to act like a normal sword (only for the creator), that means the only end it cost is for the STR that is used. Do you see what I am getting at? Maybe….. 1D6+1 HKA +1/2 END = 0 -1/2 Requires Magic Skill Roll to Create Sword -1/2 Side Effects on failed Magic Skill Roll -1/4 Requires Mana (END) to Create Sword -1/4 Acts like a regular sword (can be disarmed, trapped, broken ect) What about the fact that it takes ½ a phase to activate the power (create the sword), is that implied in the fact that is requires end to activate (Create Sword)? And the sword is non persistent. So if the wielder gets stunned, KOed or goes to sleep the sword goes away. Well am I on target or am I FUBAR again? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Well, maybe this is a little too on the nose, but.... 2d6 Transform, Air into Mana Sword, Standard Effect Rule, Skill Roll, the Professor and the rest, etc. This is if you want the sword to be an honest-to-God real, solid object that anybody could pick up, touch, see, and so on. The "heal" for this Transform is a certain amount of time passing or until the creator goes unconscious, whichever comes first. 2d6 HKA, OIF: Mana Sword The attack itself. OIF because even if it's knocked from you hand, taken from you, etc., you can do another Transform to make another one, making it Inaccessible. Wacky enough for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kolava Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 What is FUBAR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 FUBAR: Military Acronym (F)ucked (U)p (B)eyond (A)ny ®ecognition (A) may also be All. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Originally posted by Rick FUBAR: Military Acronym (F)ucked (U)p (B)eyond (A)ny ®ecognition Whoa! I didn't know we could say Recognition on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Well, how about building it as a Summon? I've seen Vehicles Summoned, so why not other inanimate objects? Find the Active Points in the HKA Power for the sword you want, and use that as the basis for the Summon. Summon would only cost END when the sword is created, and afterwards the sword remains in your possession until it "leaves" (is stolen or broken), at which point you can create another. It would be appropriate to require the "slavishly loyal" Advantage on Summon, especially if this is going to be a Personal Focus that only the caster can use. How's that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Conjured Blade Just increase the Lingering to 1 Day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 KS, could you point me to where I can find details on "Lingering?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Conjured Blade Just increase the Lingering to 1 Day. Hmm, I like that-- elegant. Have to leave off the Charges, I'd think. Increasing Lingering to a full day seems like it'd be expensive. What would that be? +1 1/2? Lord Liaden, Lingering's a FH thing, I believe. I have the old FH, but not the new one, so I couldn't tell you. Then again, you didn't ask me in the first place, so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Originally posted by Lord Liaden KS, could you point me to where I can find details on "Lingering?" Taken from Killer Shrike's Default Magic System Default Magic System Guidelines LINGERING This option is in effect in my campaigns On a related tangent, some attack Spells bring into being an object which may be used to convey an attack, such as a Spell that "summons" or "creates" a weapon like a Sword. While this could theoretically be represented as a Constant Power construct using the FOCI or Restrainable rules to represent the "weapon", it makes for a relatively clumsy Power construct. Fortunately Fantasy HERO provides an ideal solution in the form of a new Advantage called Lingering detailed on page 257 of the Fantasy HERO Genre Book for HERO System 5th Edition. Lingering may only be applied to Instant powers and varies in its value based upon how long the Power sticks around on the Time Chart. Without impinging on the IP of HERO Games, suffice to say that a Lingering Instant Power may be used or not used on successive Phases, targeted anew each time, for the duration of the Lingering Advantage. By default the Lingering attack is perceivable for the duration (a variation of Invisible Power Effects may be applied to avoid this), and the SFX of the attack may be defined creatively as usual for the HERO System. Thus, a "Summon Sword" Spell may be defined as a Lingering Hand Killing Attack, and the SFX of the Spell can be defined as "A sword appears and may be used to strike at opponents". The "sword" can't be taken away from the character or attacked directly (unless Physical Manifestation is also taken for the Spell), and really doesnt exist in any meaningful fashion, but has the appearance of being a physical sword. USING LINGERING Lingering is a fabulously useful Power Advantage for creating Spells with and I recommend its use. However, there have been several clarifying points made by Steve Long regarding the Advantage on the HERO System Rules Questions Forum. The most significant ruling made thus far as pertains to the content of this website is the relation of Lingering and Charges; Lingering qualifies to unlock the "Continuing" option for Charges, just as if it were a Constant or Continuous Power. This feature of Lingering is used heavily in the Spells provided on this website and should be noted. REF: Lingering, Page 257 Fantasy HERO for HERO System 5th Edition [/Quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Originally posted by devlin1 Hmm, I like that-- elegant. Have to leave off the Charges, I'd think. Increasing Lingering to a full day seems like it'd be expensive. What would that be? +1 1/2? Lord Liaden, Lingering's a FH thing, I believe. I have the old FH, but not the new one, so I couldn't tell you. Then again, you didn't ask me in the first place, so.... Lingering 1 Day is +2 actually. As far as the Charges, without being on a Charge you'll likely want it to be 0 END as well, and the real cost will be higher too without the Lim. If you want it to cost "Mana" you can use the Charge and add a Occurs Always Side Effect "Costs X Mana". That way you get the fire-and-forget benefit of the Charge and still maintain the integrity of your Mana-based magic system. Hey devlin, you are in San Diego? Have we met? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Something like this: Cost Power END 33 Conjured Blade of All-Day Striking: HKA 2d6 (vs. PD), 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Day (+0), Lingering up to 1 Day (+2) (90 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Costs X Mana; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Extra Time (Delayed Phase, -1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Physical Manifestation (-1/4) [Notes: Conjuration, Creation, New, Creates a magical sword that the caster may lay about with in melee. Does not require proficiency. Crumbles to dust after 1 day, may be attacked and damaged directly.] Powers Cost: 33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiMan Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 If it doesn't get in the way of other aspects of your character, treat it as a Focus, available Only In Hero ID. The method to enter HID is guestures, etc... When KO'd, you exit HID. Kinda weird approach, but maybe it will work for your situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonsong Posted February 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 If you put 1 charge on then you can only activate it once. What if the sword is destroyed. You can't use the power again untill you recover the charge. What Am I missing? And isn't a bit pricey for what your getting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsch Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 The problem arises from HKA being instant, so that any start up conditions have to be repeated each attack, note that HKA technically can not be used to block, so if you abort a phase to block with a sword and use its levels you cant, it is only a purely attack power. The description of HKA as instant is the problem, though constant is not right either cos it allows you to constantly and successfull attack a character. I would say that if you were paying the END cost for the power each phase then its Active, and treated as a constant power which would mean that you can use all those xtra time, gest, inc skill roll lim for start up. In comics there are many examples of guns which have large powerup times but can be used each phase afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by Demonsong If you put 1 charge on then you can only activate it once. What if the sword is destroyed. You can't use the power again untill you recover the charge. What Am I missing? Two things: 1. Lose the Charges limitation if you don't like it. 2. Define the Charge as recovering after one day. It's generaly assumed with Charges (correct me if I'm wrong) that they're going to be replaced or replenished eventually. If you buy an RKA as a handgun with 8 bullets, nobody's saying you can't get more bullets once those 8 run out. As this is a mystical thing and not something concrete like ammunition, define the mode of recovery as the passage of a day, or the dawning of the sun, or whatever. And isn't a bit pricey for what your getting? Two things: 1. Reduce the HKA to 1d6+1, like you wanted originally. 2. It's a Killing Attack that magically appears out of nowhere and can be used by no one else. How cheap should it be? On an unrelated note, when posting a message like this, am I the only one who keeps mistaking one of the Options checkboxes as "Disable Similies in This Post"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenixcrest Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Well, if the sword vanishes when your character is KO'd, how about: HKA 0 END. Usable by Others. Minimum STR. This way, when you are KO'd, the power stops working. You can let other people use it, but it can't just be taken. Though maybe another -1/4 to make it so that it can be taken, but still vanishes when you're KO'd. Minimum STR "whatever" just makes it a bit cheaper while still being kinda like a sword. EDIT: Oh, used by nobody else. Well, it's just a regular HKA, then, with the special effect "Looks and behaves like a sword that materializes out of nowhere." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by Demonsong If you put 1 charge on then you can only activate it once. What if the sword is destroyed. You can't use the power again untill you recover the charge. What Am I missing?And isn't a bit pricey for what your getting? You can use it oncer PER DAY. But hey, it lasts all day, so wheres the problem? Granted, its not persistent and you cant use Persistent w/ Lingering (FH says you can, but if you do a search for Lingering on the HERO Rules Questions boards I brought up a question about that and Steve determined that FH was erroneous in that regard -- you cant use it w/ Persistent).If you want to be able to use it more than once per day, then just buy more charges with it.In fact, because its capped out the Continuing Charge, guess what? You can have any number of charges for the same cost: Cost Power END 33 Conjured Blade of All-Day Striking: HKA 2d6 (vs. PD), 16000 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Day each (+0), Lingering up to 1 Day (+2) (90 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Costs X Mana; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Extra Time (Delayed Phase, -1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Physical Manifestation (-1/4) [Notes: Conjuration, Creation, New, Creates a magical sword that the caster may lay about with in melee. Does not require proficiency. Crumbles to dust after 1 day, may be attacked and damaged directly.] Powers Cost: 33 As far as the cost, well presumably you have some kind of framework or price discounting available in your Magic System; if not ALL your spells are going to be expensive compared to non-spellcasters.As far as Blocking, anyone can use the Block Manuever, and you can Block w/ things you are holding (they take damage on a Block however IIRC). Since the spell has Physical Manifestation, it is treated as a FOCI for purposes of breaking it, and has a physical existance -- and thus you could probably "block" with it if you wanted to or use any of the other free manuevers (and any martial arts usable w/ Sword) as long as your GM was ok w/ it, and even if he werent you could probably convince him to allow it so long as you had the Blades Weapon Element. BTW the difference btwn a Physical Manifestation and a Focus is, you need a Focus to activate a power, but a Physical Manifestation comes into being via the activation of a power; otherwise they are effectively the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Taken from Killer Shrike's Default Magic System Default Magic System Guidelines PHYSICAL MANIFESTATION This option is in effect in my campaigns Some Spells in addition or instead of requiring physical items to be cast leave behind some physical manifestation which can be attacked, ending the Spell. This could be modeled using the FOCI rules, except that FOCI are normally needed for activation of a Power construct, whereas this sort of manifestation is brought into being by activation of a Power construct. Fortunately, a new Limitation called Physical Manifestation can be found on page 100 in the UNTIL Superpowers Database. Physical Manifestation is a -1/4 Limitation that essentially is treated as a Breakable Focus brought into being by activation of a Power, with a DCV equal to the Base DCV of the originating character (or logically 0 if left unattended and immobile). This Limitation is tailor made for making Spells that create a Ward, or a Symbol, or call forth hands of force which may be attacked directly, and similar. USING PHYSICAL MANIFESTATION A Physical Manifestation must be accessible, must be attackable, and must be breakable via mundane means. If it is not any one of these things, then it is not really a Physical Manifestation and is just a SFX. REF: Physical Manifestation, Page 100 UNTIL Superpowers Database, Sidebar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by Killer Shrike You can use it oncer PER DAY. But hey, it lasts all day, so wheres the problem? Granted, its not persistent and you cant use Persistent w/ Lingering (FH says you can, but if you do a search for Lingering on the HERO Rules Questions boards I brought up a question about that and Steve determined that FH was erroneous in that regard -- you cant use it w/ Persistent). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Re: Help Create the Instant Sword Spell Please Wow. All these complex approaches. This is a pretty straightforward HKA. The "magic sword" is just a SPECIAL EFFECT. The original writeup looks pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Re: Re: Help Create the Instant Sword Spell Please Originally posted by Arthur Wow. All these complex approaches. This is a pretty straightforward HKA. The "magic sword" is just a SPECIAL EFFECT. The original writeup looks pretty good. An HKA is an instant power and has no duration. If he wants to "cast a spell" to create a sword and then be able to use it repetitively without having to recast it, then it cant just be an HKA by the rules. Otherwise he would have to keep re-casting it every phase he wanted to use the sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Re: Re: Re: Help Create the Instant Sword Spell Please Originally posted by Killer Shrike An HKA is an instant power and has no duration. If he wants to "cast a spell" to create a sword and then be able to use it repetitively without having to recast it, then it cant just be an HKA by the rules. Otherwise he would have to keep re-casting it every phase he wanted to use the sword. That's only an issue the first phase. After that, the sword is a Special Effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Re: Re: Re: Re: Help Create the Instant Sword Spell Please Originally posted by Arthur That's only an issue the first phase. After that, the sword is a Special Effect. There is no second Phase. HKA is "INSTANT" not "CONSTANT". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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