Hit location or not?

[Kzinbane]

Obviously in mid game I need to question my players before I make any changes, but I am in the middle of GMing a Champions game and so far am not using the hit location rules/charts. I'm curious - how many of you DO use HL for super style campaigns? If you have tried it and don't like it (or vice versa DO like it better) I am interested in why that is.

 

one of the PC's in the game is a Bullseye type - adding hit location seems like it could add a bit of spice to his abilities and make it more fun for him. I don't want to bog down everything else though - my aim (no pun intended) is for the players to enjoy the gaming after all.

[Supreme Serpent]

Don't use 'em for a supers game, just doesn't feel right to me, and bogs the game down unnecessarily.

 

If Cap'n A wants to define his attack as hitting Mr. Hyde in the knee, no biggie, helps give a visual. If Cap gets shot by a rifle and takes a few body, I'd rather just "hand wave" it and say it went through a shoulder, or thigh, etc. instead of going "Ew - looks like it hit you in the face." Or, "OK, Thing - you hit with your haymaker - roll for location - ok, you hit him...in the left foot for 23 dice !?!"

 

I will occaisionally break them out for when players want to try specialized called shots (ie hit heart on vampire, cyborg's hand, etc.), but it's rare that it comes up.

[austenandrews]

I've used Hit Locations for Killing Attacks in Golden Age games. It gives the players more respect for bad guys with tommyguns, or with a pistol to somebody's head. But I'd temper that if the PCs had KAs. Overcranking thugs is worthwhile for genre reasons, but HLs overcrank PC KAs way too much. (That was a fun sentence to write. )

 

I'd never use it for normal attacks, unless the campaign was very low-powered. If Captain Nice pops a 14d6 punch as a matter of course, a head shot would be obscene.

 

-AA

[TheEmerged]

Personally I've used it for all genres for quite some time. It suits the feel I want, but it might not be for everyone or in all genres.

 

One trick: buy 3 dice in a very odd or noticeable color. Have the players roll them at the same time as the to-hit dice. Since most gamers can add 3 dice results almost automatically this speeds things up -- mitigating the time otherwise lost by HitLoc's extra work.

[CrosshairCollie]

In Superheroic games, I use the Hit Locations to determine Killing Attack Stun Multipliers, and if the target has partial armor coverage (I have an excellent system created by an old friend of mine that works better than activation rolls). I don't use any of the other effects of the Hit Location chart for damage, though ... I just like evening out the Stun Lotto.

 

In a Heroic game, I use the Hit Locations chart for everything, and apply the additional damage effects.

[Blue]

I *love* hit location rules in most games, including hero.

 

But with my current crew of up to 8 players it's too cumbersome for me to roll yet another roll on each attack. I give the players the option of declaring and rolling it if they like, but I don't do it for my villains/NPCs, just out of courtesy to players who are waiting around for their turn in the very long list of attackers.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Supreme Serpent

Don't use 'em for a supers game, just doesn't feel right to me, and bogs the game down unnecessarily.

 

There's a second issue here, for me anyway. OCV's and DCV's vary wildly in superheroic games. Consider a large Brick character/creature. Let's say it has a 4 DCV.

 

He's facing an 8 OCV Brick, a 12 OCV energy projector (with levels) and a 15 OCV martial artist. The EP can target the head and get a hit that does double damage and hits 62.5% of the time. The MA can hit the head on a 14-, which is well over 80% of the time.

 

For that mater, the MA can target the 8 DCV Brick's head (and that's a pretty good DCV for a brick!) and have a 50% chance of hitting every time for double damage.

 

Heck, maybe my Knight character should have a Vorpla ability - 8 PSL to hit the head withhis sword. 5x SM every time!

[austenandrews]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

For that mater, the MA can target the 8 DCV Brick's head (and that's a pretty good DCV for a brick!) and have a 50% chance of hitting every time for double damage.

 

Which is why I never use it for normal damage and would give serious consideration against using it if the PCs had high-damage KAs.

 

Though I do use HLs pretty much across the board for non-supers games.

 

-AA

[Kristopher]

I don't use the random tables, but I do allow for "dramatically appropriate" called shots and use the damage modifiers.

[Gary]

Hit locations are horribly unbalanced in a superheroic campaign, unless you can't target them. IOW, you roll the 3d6 everytime. Otherwise, you can just nuke low DCV, flashed, darkness, grabbed, or entangled characters with ease.

 

Also, it's fairly easy to spread for greater OCV, and you can easily find a point where it's cost effective to spread for head shots.

[lemming]

Use them, but with the addition of

Killing attacks have a x3 multiple.

The multipliers that are used for location are the Nstun (for all attacks) after defenses.

With that, they've been balanced.

[Captain Super]

I only use it for KAs, both stun multipliers and damage increase (Bodyx). It does away with the stun lotto problem with an average stun multiplier of just under 3, less than the normal attack average of 3.5 , but still allowing for a fair variable range. (It gives a nice bell curve of stun multiplier) It makes the Supers more susceptible to skilled normals with guns, and Supers with KAs more reluctant to use deadly force.

 

I also use it for called shots, but not in every situation.

 

(As an aside, Ka's should have less stun on average than normal attacks, because the genre effect is different. KAs are designed to kill. other attacks are designed to put down.)

[BNakagawa]

It's a death sentence for traditional bricks.

 

It somewhat nerfs mentallists, assuming you can't use hit locations for ego attacks. (although, if you use mental illusions that do damage, you can have them automatically hit the head location which helps them out)

 

It powers up martial artists to an uncomfortable degree. I'd need to learn the chinese phrase for 'head-shot'. Korean, too.

 

Either that, or you'd have to rewrite every character in the book(s). They're clearly written up for an environment where called shots are not commonly available. Too much work and not enough payoff, IMO.

 

$0.02

[Vondy]

I only use hit locations for called shots with the applied CV modifiers. Otherwise we assume a hit is basically center mass.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by austenandrews

Which is why I never use it for normal damage and would give serious consideration against using it if the PCs had high-damage KAs.

 

If it wouldn't be used where PC's can take advantage of it, I'd say don't use it at all.

 

Originally posted by austenandrews

Though I do use HLs pretty much across the board for non-supers games.

 

The CV sporead is cut down in these games. For Fantasy Hero it works fine.

[Kzinbane]

Uses hit location chart advantage

 

Heh, maybe I should just allow for an advantage - uses hit location (+1 advantage). I think I'll just continue without it - if it ain't broke don't fix it. I may suggest the character buy some find weakness which sort of/kind of simulates hit location.

[Solomon]

I don't use hit locations in my Superheroic games. It doesn't feel appropriate to the genre.

[austenandrews]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

If it wouldn't be used where PC's can take advantage of it, I'd say don't use it at all.

 

Only if the PCs have low-powered KAs. My goal is to power up firearms so they're respectable. If a PC has a conventional sidearm, I've got no problem with using Hit Locations. If he's got a 3 1/2d6 Super Sword of Justice, forget it.

 

-AA

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by austenandrews

Only if the PCs have low-powered KAs. My goal is to power up firearms so they're respectable. If a PC has a conventional sidearm, I've got no problem with using Hit Locations. If he's got a 3 1/2d6 Super Sword of Justice, forget it.

 

-AA

 

So the guy with a 2d6 Sidearm can spend, say, 15 points on the sidearm (2d6 KA, OAF Gun) and 12 points on PSL's and always target the head, getting an average of 14 BOD (it is 2x BOD, isn't it?) and 35 Stun. But the guy who spends 30 points on a 4d6 KA (OAF Gun) gets to average 14 BOD and 37 Stun.

 

Nope, still doesn't seem fair to me. To say "you can have hit locations only if your attacks are small" doesn't sit right somehow.

 

Now, restricting hit locations to campaigns where attacks overall are smaller, that makes sense to me.

 

YMMV

[Alex Raven]

The group I have been gaming with has been together for over 20 years now. We began using the hit location tables when Danger: International came out way back when.

 

Since that time we have used the hit location table and all of their modifiers in all facets of our gaming campaigns. It truly gives the characters an opportunity to score a "miracle" hit against the opponents. It also gives the uber hero the chance to blow his hit and nail the big villain in the hand. It kind of levels out the playing field for many of our characters.

 

We can also aim for various locations. Your "bullseye" type character will have new challenges added as he attempts to hit the villains in the head. He can also now aim for the hand to knock that gun out of their grasp.

 

The tables have added a lot to our games. I highly recommend their use!

[BNakagawa]

There are countless reasons why you shouldn't use hit locations in Champions.

 

Among them are darkness, entangle, flash, mental illusions, telekinesis, anything that causes knockback and a bunch of martial maneuvers.

 

As soon as you knock some fool down to 1/2 DCV, your buddy with the held half phase rails him in the face with the 60 active point attack and the competitive portion of the engagement is bound to be over.

 

It's a lot like shooting skeet.

 

Pull!

[austenandrews]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

So the guy with a 2d6 Sidearm can spend, say, 15 points on the sidearm (2d6 KA, OAF Gun) and 12 points on PSL's and always target the head, getting an average of 14 BOD (it is 2x BOD, isn't it?) and 35 Stun. But the guy who spends 30 points on a 4d6 KA (OAF Gun) gets to average 14 BOD and 37 Stun.

 

Nope, still doesn't seem fair to me. To say "you can have hit locations only if your attacks are small" doesn't sit right somehow.

 

Now, restricting hit locations to campaigns where attacks overall are smaller, that makes sense to me.

 

The last part describes what I mean. For one thing, I'd never allow anybody to spend 12 pts on PSLs to target the head. What I'm saying is, if the most any PC has is the Jungle King's 1d6 knife or the Crimson Phantom's 1 1/2d6 revolver, each at, say, 6 or 7 OCV, then I might use Hit Locations. If somebody builds the Human Howitzer with a 4d6 RKA, no way is that game going to use hit Locations. The rule applies across the board.

 

Or more precisely, no way would I allow the Human Howitzer in a game that uses Hit Locations. Like I said I use the rule for some Golden Age games, which I run at a low power level (usually starting at 200 pts or less). And that doesn't include major killing attacks.

 

-AA

[AnotherSkip]

I use it for flavor.

 

it helps make the combat more interesting

 

and heck you are only throwing another 3d6 of a different color at the same time. "I hit him in the Ooooooooh face for 64 stun and a whopping 18 body " "Metamuscle clutches his jaw with obvious agony as he flies back 10 " "and skids across the pavement coming to rest against the curb"

 

is better IMNSHO

than "I hit him for 64 stun and 18 Body"

"Metamuscle flies back 10" before coming to rest against the curb"

 

Helps the players

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by austenandrews

The last part describes what I mean. For one thing, I'd never allow anybody to spend 12 pts on PSLs to target the head. What I'm saying is, if the most any PC has is the Jungle King's 1d6 knife or the Crimson Phantom's 1 1/2d6 revolver, each at, say, 6 or 7 OCV, then I might use Hit Locations. If somebody builds the Human Howitzer with a 4d6 RKA, no way is that game going to use hit Locations. The rule applies across the board.

 

Or more precisely, no way would I allow the Human Howitzer in a game that uses Hit Locations. Like I said I use the rule for some Golden Age games, which I run at a low power level (usually starting at 200 pts or less). And that doesn't include major killing attacks.

 

I think you've clarified it for me. Where you're saying "PC", I need to read "any character" (ie neither the pC's nor the NPC's would have attacks above your acceptable level).

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by austenandrews

For one thing, I'd never allow anybody to spend 12 pts on PSLs to target the head.

 

I'd give even odds we'll see 8 PSL's on a magic item in the Magic Items book. The old Magic Items book (from what, 3e?) had this on a Vorpal Sword - it had 8 levels only to counteract targetting the head, so all hits would be considered head hits.

 

Of course, a Vorpal Sword isn't exactly a minor magic item...