Holding actions and so forth....

[Dr. MID-Nite]

This whole concept brings up some weird situations that I'm not sure how to deal with. Examples:

 

1) Everyone holds their actions(the heroes get paranoid after seeing the villans do it). Now what? It's the end of the phase....who goes?

 

2) DEX 24 bad guy and two DEX 23 heroes hold their actions. Bad guy then charges them at the end of the phase. Heroes want to do offensive action to intercept him(like punch him when he gets close). What wins here? Bad guy's DEX gives him initiative?

 

3) On a related note, if two characters have the same DEX, like one bad guy and one good guy, can they disrupt each other. For example, bad guy A decides to move through good guy C. Good guy B has the same DEX as the baddie and decides to intercept. How does that resolve? Opposed DEX checks....to hits...or something else?

 

Rob

[lemming]

Dex roll offs. I'm pretty sure the rules cover the rules on this one.

[Derek Hiemforth]

1. Let 'em keep Holding. If they Hold into what would have been their next action, they lose the action they have held. (H5E, page 235)

 

2. All characters wanting to act at the same time make DEX rolls (or EGO rolls for mental powers, etc.). The one who makes it by the most goes first, and so on. (H5E, page 235)

 

3. All characters with the same DEX roll 1d6, high roll goes first and so on. Ties reroll. (H5E, page 232)

[TrickstaPriest]

1. Well, this is what they call a "Mexican Standoff."

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth

1. Let 'em keep Holding. If they Hold into what would have been their next action, they lose the action they have held. (H5E, page 235)

 

My personal addition: Don't announce "End of Segment 3". The characters can't tell where one segment ends. You held your action, time moved on, the next thing that happened was in Segment 4. If that cost you a phase, too bad!

[pinecone]

One thing I've always done that limits some of the "Hold battles" is I always expect someone to hold to do something...if you just hold its dex roll to interupt. So if Atom smasming midget says "I hold till someone gets close enough to biff" no roll off he gets to do that when it comes up. If the indecisive avenger holds because he can't decide he just may be suprised by what happens and miss his chance...I've never had combat bogged down due to excessive holding...but that may be that I've just always been lucky with players. One thing to crack down on, in my opinion, is players who use delays as "combat telepathy" ie they hold till everone annouces their action...then jump in to make the "perfect move"...unless they Are a telepath that bugs me....

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by pinecone

One thing I've always done that limits some of the "Hold battles" is I always expect someone to hold to do something

Actually, by a strict reading of the rules, that is the official way Held Actions work. You can wait until a particular DEX, or you can wait until a specific event occurs. You cannot technically just wait around to see what happens before deciding what to do.

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by pinecone

One thing to crack down on, in my opinion, is players who use delays as "combat telepathy" ie they hold till everone annouces their action...then jump in to make the "perfect move"...unless they Are a telepath that bugs me....

 

Actually, that's impossible. A character cannot hold his action to act one out of game stuff happens. He would have to hold until he sees what everyone is doing. Since everyone doesn't "do" at the same time, he'll have to wait until everybody has already performed their action, or jump in in the middle without seeing what some character will do next.

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth

Actually, by a strict reading of the rules, that is the official way Held Actions work. You can wait until a particular DEX, or you can wait until a specific event occurs. You cannot technically just wait around to see what happens before deciding what to do.

 

I allow indecisive character to simply hold their action. In fact, I force them to. It doesn't happen too often, but if player can't figure out what his character's gonna within a reasonable amount of time, he's considered holding, and anything he does is considered a DEX roll against whoever's next in line when he jumps in. If he decides to act in a Segment when no one is acting, he can go normally without a DEX roll.

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

My personal addition: Don't announce "End of Segment 3". The characters can't tell where one segment ends. You held your action, time moved on, the next thing that happened was in Segment 4. If that cost you a phase, too bad!

 

I can see your point, but as long as there is someone else acting, they'll know what Segment it is anyways. In my campaign, if everyone is holding their action, then it's just perpetually Segment 12 until someone acts. Recoveies only happen if someone actually says their holding to take Post Segment 12 Recoveries.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by Dust Raven

I allow indecisive character to simply hold their action. In fact, I force them to. It doesn't happen too often, but if player can't figure out what his character's gonna within a reasonable amount of time, he's considered holding, and anything he does is considered a DEX roll against whoever's next in line when he jumps in. If he decides to act in a Segment when no one is acting, he can go normally without a DEX roll.

 

I buy in to that.

 

Originally posted by Dust Raven

I can see your point, but as long as there is someone else acting, they'll know what Segment it is anyways. In my campaign, if everyone is holding their action, then it's just perpetually Segment 12 until someone acts. Recoveies only happen if someone actually says their holding to take Post Segment 12 Recoveries.

 

Actually, I have no problem if they want to extrapolate from others who move. Where I have a problem is the GM saying "OK, Segment 4", and a player then says "Oh wait, before Phase 3 ends I'll do this..." because his character has a 6 speed and he doesn't want to lose an action.

 

To me, the correct answer to that player is "Tough luck. You held your action, and nothing happened prior to the end of Segment three. It's now segment 4." In the example you citre, I would simply say "OK, you are all surveying the scene intently. Post segment 12 recoveries, the nit's segment 1". If someone wanted to move at the end of Segment 12, too bad - he waited too long.

[TaxiMan]

I don't have this problem (yet), but this occurred to me because this is how we run the Speed chart:

 

Pre-generate the sequence of who-goes-next. Call off names to get actions. If someone holds, move on & ignore them. If you call their name again - lost phase.

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

Actually, I have no problem if they want to extrapolate from others who move. Where I have a problem is the GM saying "OK, Segment 4", and a player then says "Oh wait, before Phase 3 ends I'll do this..." because his character has a 6 speed and he doesn't want to lose an action.

 

To me, the correct answer to that player is "Tough luck. You held your action, and nothing happened prior to the end of Segment three. It's now segment 4." In the example you citre, I would simply say "OK, you are all surveying the scene intently. Post segment 12 recoveries, the nit's segment 1". If someone wanted to move at the end of Segment 12, too bad - he waited too long.

 

I agree completely, and don't allow that. Holding "until right before my next action" doesn't count. You either hold for something specific, or you try to jump in. If nothing happens other than a game mechanic the character wouldn't be aware of, too bad.

 

I'd still consider him holding until his DEX came up again though, in case he wanted to act at a higher DEX. If he does, using his held action replaces his Phase that Segment. If not, he can act normally on his DEX, or hold his full Phase.

[Tech]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth

1. Let 'em keep Holding. If they Hold into what would have been their next action, they lose the action they have held. (H5E, page 235)

 

2. All characters wanting to act at the same time make DEX rolls (or EGO rolls for mental powers, etc.). The one who makes it by the most goes first, and so on. (H5E, page 235)

 

3. All characters with the same DEX roll 1d6, high roll goes first and so on. Ties reroll. (H5E, page 232)

 

Wow, this is similar to my campaign rules.

#1 is the same.

#2 & #3 is handled by simply going down the Dex again in the phase both people who held their actions act. If they both have the same Dex, roll 1d6. If 1d6 rolled is the same, the act at the exact same time. This has led to some interesting fights where both attackers KO each other after attacking.

[pinecone]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth

Actually, by a strict reading of the rules, that is the official way Held Actions work. You can wait until a particular DEX, or you can wait until a specific event occurs. You cannot technically just wait around to see what happens before deciding what to do.

Well I'm glad the rule do say that,now I feel vindicated ...I'm not much of a rule reader, I mostly go with what seems reasonable. But I've had people TRy to use holding in an abusive way (especially the combat telepathy..."Oh, seeing how he is going to run across the room and grab the container,I will interupt his action") Some people get ticked off when I go "Dude, he has already done his action" This give me the impression that a few people do it that way, and I've noticed more than one thred about holding being a problem. So I thought I'd make myself clear that I don't like it, no sir. The indisisive avenger is the number one source of slow battles in my opinion and I also give people a Short time to declare and act or get put on hold with no action specified.

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Holding actions and so forth....

 

Actually' date=' by a strict reading of the rules, that is the official way Held Actions work. You can wait until a particular DEX, or you can wait until a specific event occurs. You cannot technically just wait around to see what happens before deciding what to do.[/quote']

 

Actually, it says that you may Hold actions to wait for a specific event. I don't think you have to. This is further reinforced by the examples immediately following the statement of the rules, summarized as follows:

Defender has DEX 23. Ogre has DEX 18. Defender decides to Hold his action. Ogre charges on DEX 18. Defender decides to use his Held action to fire his Energy Blast at Ogre on DEX 18.

 

FREd p. 235. Never does Defender actually specify when he was holding his action until when he declared the Held action.

 

So, at least in my humble opinion, that means that a player can Hold an action for any purpose, and use it when he pleases (as long as it's before his next phase-occupied segment begins).

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Holding actions and so forth....

 

Actually' date=' it says that you [i']may[/i] Hold actions to wait for a specific event. I don't think you have to.

From the Rules FAQ:

 

Question: When a character wants to Hold his Action, must the player specify what the character’s waiting for, or can he simply "Hold" and wait to see what happens before deciding what to do?

 

Answer: The strict "letter of the rules" is that the character has to specify a lower DEX or an event that "triggers" his Held Action (so to speak). But there’s nothing wrong with a GM letting a character use a Held Action whenever desired.