What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

[Hermit]

The opposite of the "What super hero concepts are you tired of" debate. Which ones would you like to see more of? either in comics, or (More relevantly for this board I guess) in your games?

 

I can't really complain too much in the game department, my players are pretty versitile. I do notice a strong bias against the 'ugly hero' ala the Thing etc. if one appears, they'll try to cure it fast even if the campaign doesn't have the resources to do so. They're just not big on it in NPCs, and they never play them as PCs.

 

It's not a big thing, just about the only one I can think of.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

The opposite of the "What super hero concepts are you tired of" debate. Which ones would you like to see more of? either in comics, or (More relevantly for this board I guess) in your games?

 

I can't really complain too much in the game department, my players are pretty versitile. I do notice a strong bias against the 'ugly hero' ala the Thing etc. if one appears, they'll try to cure it fast even if the campaign doesn't have the resources to do so. They're just not big on it in NPCs, and they never play them as PCs.

 

It's not a big thing, just about the only one I can think of.

 

I've never seen anyone ever play a fat brick, a'la Big Bertha or the Blob.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Characters that actually think and plan out actions. Not gamers agonizing over how to move this phase or that, but what do they want to do? What do they want to accomplish?

 

Not to go Authority because despite how much I loved the first 12 or so issues, heros do not as a rule kill or maim. But how to be proactive and not reactive. Why wait for Primus or SAT to show up...develop it on your own.

 

What I really want is for PCs to be heroic.

 

Hawksmoor

[nexus]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

I've never seen anyone ever play a fat brick' date=' a'la Big Bertha or the Blob.[/quote']

 

I have someone playing a Blob clone in Redwood:The Raptors

[Intrope]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

I've never seen anyone ever play a fat brick' date=' a'la Big Bertha or the Blob.[/quote']

Not that it was a player doing it, but my GM had Bulldozer be a Large, Hairy, Sweety sort of guy (ewww). Complete with his own theme song, Tectonic (imagine him dancing, and the motion enduced thereby--shudder).

 

He also drove a Canyonero (from the Simpsons--65 tons of American Pride!), complete with a 2 gallon SuperGuzzler of Coke and 80lb bag of Pork Rinds.

 

It was hysterical, especially since he still thought he was god's gift to women, and was hitting on our Plasma Girl.

 

For my part, I'd love to see more decisive but not violent characters in my gaming group. We tend to be too indecisive, unless we play Barbarians (in which case we charge and hack). [note: I'm guilty of both of these too ]

[Reynard]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

I've never seen anyone ever play a fat brick' date=' a'la Big Bertha or the Blob.[/quote']

 

Or, by extension, players taking generally unatractive characters. i mean, the human ooking characters be all hawt is okay, because that is the way it is in the comics. But players seem to shy away from being the guy covered in thorns or the chick who is a pile of worms. Unattrative (as opposed to wierd but still cool) is generally associaed with villains, i guess.

 

Also, you don't see enough non fighting types, frex Raven from the orifginal Teen Titans. She was a high point character and a badass, but all her powers were healing, empathy, and the occasional such you into my dark soul. Everybody likes being able to hit things, I guess. Or, maybe, characters like that are too complex when it comes to char gen.

 

Reynard

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

I have someone playing a Blob clone in Redwood:The Raptors

 

Sludge?

 

Blob is cool.

 

He even has slightly icky looking powers (kind of 'melts' into his surroundings)

[Rene]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Both in fiction and in game? Okay.

 

Bricks with complex personalities and pasts. Two of my all-time favorite supers characters fall in this category: Golden Boy from "Wild Cards" and Steeljack from "Astro City". But they're rare. Bricks usually are everymen, paragons, warriors, or rampaging brawlers.

 

Characters who ARE willing to kill but only in extreme situations. As opposed to either casual killers or saints who will not kill the Joker as he is about to mass murder for the 576th time.

[Bengal]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Gadgeteers that are not munchkinny. 300-pointy heroes (or less) in a 350-limit game. Heroes who rely on skills and bravery... well, noncombat skills. Heroes who have no "main attack" poiwer, or a limited one- those who wouold rather support the other heroes or clear out the innocent bystanders.

 

Am I biased? Heck yes, but I'm the guy who is usually wearing a fish bowl on my head at superhero cocktail parties. (Marvel fans know what I mean by that.)

[Hawksmoor]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Gadgeteers that are not munchkinny. 300-pointy heroes (or less) in a 350-limit game. Heroes who rely on skills and bravery... well, noncombat skills. Heroes who have no "main attack" poiwer, or a limited one- those who wouold rather support the other heroes or clear out the innocent bystanders.

 

Am I biased? Heck yes, but I'm the guy who is usually wearing a fish bowl on my head at superhero cocktail parties. (Marvel fans know what I mean by that.)

 

Heh heh. Water Breathing Boy! Heh heh! Cut my Hero teeth on Marvel. The fun WAS in trying to tie in all those strange powers from the UPB into a coherent PC.

 

My Fav: PowerGlide a Hybrid Supersoldier/Angel with Excellent Flight (wings) and Rocket Flight (incredible), monsterous Regeneration and amazing Fighting.

 

Hawksmoor

[Rene]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Do you think we can blame the players for the dearth of non-combat superhumans? IMO, the blame mostly lays with GMs, comic book writers, and RPG book writers.

 

The GMs are the ones who design adventures that usually revolve 90% around combat. The other 10% is stuff to help "us get into the combat scene". I play a game, I want to shine. I'll not design a "social" or "brainy" character if it's going to be wasted (except when the brainy character thinks up a way to win the combat, we can try as we might, but it *always* ends in combat). So those characters are condemned to supporting roles. Most people don't like to be supporting actors (I, for one, don't).

 

And the GMs, in their turn, are mostly influenced by comic books and RPG systems. I'll not say superhero comics are only about combat, there is a lot of character stuff and drama going on too, but when there is an "adventure problem", it usually involves combat or something that will get us to the combat.

 

In some fantasy worlds you can play a merchant, a seductress, a politician, a non-combat priest or magician, and a good GM will find you a niche. In superhero fiction usually there is no such niche. Plot problems just don't revolve around this stuff.

 

Because conventional superhero fiction is about stopping the villain physically. Superheroes, due to their moral codes and genre conventions, are reactive. So superhero fiction can't be about using your good looks and social graces to build a career as a super-diplomat, or using your brains to solve scientific mysteries that don't involve discovering how to short-circuit the villain's powers.

 

Superhero RPG systems usually follow this route too. There are exceptions. Aberrant, for one. The system (and the world) had lots of problems, but there was a good thing: they made a sincere effort to give more time to the social superhuman and the brainy superhuman in the background and the rules.

 

The HERO System, even though it allows for the building of social or mental prodigies, is very combat-oriented. For instance, I think that in the real world a power like shapeshifting or invisibility would be much more useful than energy blast, still energy blast costs MORE. Because it's more combat-effective, and the system pays a lot of attention to it.

 

I was one of the few people who liked the new Shape Shift rules, because I always saw the power as *very* useful (damn, you can take the world with Shape Shift!), while lots of superhero fans complained about the new costs, because they think Shape Shift is only good to distract the villain or sneak into his headquarters. And I don't blame them. In superhero fiction, usually Shape Shift is good only for that.

[Reynard]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Do you think we can blame the players for the dearth of non-combat superhumans? IMO, the blame mostly lays with GMs, comic book writers, and RPG book writers.

 

The GMs are the ones who design adventures that usually revolve 90% around combat. The other 10% is stuff to help "us get into the combat scene". I play a game, I want to shine. I'll not design a "social" or "brainy" character if it's going to be wasted (except when the brainy character thinks up a way to win the combat, we can try as we might, but it *always* ends in combat). So those characters are condemned to supporting roles. Most people don't like to be supporting actors (I, for one, don't).

 

I disagree. Unless the GM builds the characters for the players, he is reacting to the team they put together. If the players create characters that are primarily about kicking the crap out of villains, they will call foul if the GM makes an adventure designed around social skills. The GM has to cater to his players' sense of fun, and players that create combat characters are essentially stating that their sense of fun involves combat.

 

And the GMs, in their turn, are mostly influenced by comic books and RPG systems. I'll not say superhero comics are only about combat, there is a lot of character stuff and drama going on too, but when there is an "adventure problem", it usually involves combat or something that will get us to the combat.

 

Depends on the comic. I am one of those people that think we are in a comic Rennessance right now and you can pretty much find any kind of super hero story you are looking for, from the death and destruction laden (Ultimates and The Authority come to mind) to almost serene (Noble Causes and whatever).

 

In some fantasy worlds you can play a merchant, a seductress, a politician, a non-combat priest or magician, and a good GM will find you a niche. In superhero fiction usually there is no such niche. Plot problems just don't revolve around this stuff.

 

Not true. How many comic stories end up requiring characters to use their abilities, their technical or mystical know how, or their non-powered resources to solve the Big Problem. For good comics, a whole lot of them. See recent runs of JLA, Superman, Greenlantern, and the Flash for examples of how things other than punching the villains are just as important as punching him.

 

And that is another thing. There is nothing wrong with having a good amount of combat, even if the characters are not built to be powerhouses. The guy without the 60 strength or 15d6 EB is more likely to have to think his way through a fight and come up with the kind of cool fun we are all looking for when we sit down and play a supers game.

 

IMHO. YMMV.

 

Reynard

[Rene]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Not true. How many comic stories end up requiring characters to use their abilities' date=' their technical or mystical know how, or their non-powered resources to solve the Big Problem. For good comics, a whole lot of them. See recent runs of JLA, Superman, Greenlantern, and the Flash for examples of how things other than punching the villains are just as important as punching him.[/quote']

 

Most of the "technical" or "mystical" stuff you mention I'd classify under the "supporting role" I've mentioned, and mostly it takes place in a otherwise fairly typical superfight. Mostly "short-circuiting" the villain's power to allow the other heroes to take him out, or doing it after two hours of battle when the "muscle solution" has proven insufficient. Mostly puzzling your way out of the fight.

 

The non-combat skills thus act as a supplement to the the other abilities or as a last resort when the primary ways of solving the problem aren't working. It is, let's say, one more card in the pocket of said heroes's long list of options.

 

Now, where is the comic book about the super-charismatic non-combat hero who infiltrates a corrupt institution to bring it down from within? And that being the whole point of the storyline (instead of a brief subplot). Or the superhero/scientist series showing the exploration of new trade routes with the newly-discovered other-dimensions? Even the occasional story with the superdetective not throwing a single punch is rare.

 

This is the type of situation I'm refering to, and it's pretty rare in superhero comics. You can find it in science fiction, in fantasy, in non-superhero modern games. In superhero fiction usually it's all about winning the big fight. And non-violent solutions are one more option in the hero's list of how to win the big fight.

 

 

I disagree. Unless the GM builds the characters for the players' date=' he is reacting to the team they put together. If the players create characters that are primarily about kicking the crap out of villains, they will call foul if the GM makes an adventure designed around social skills. The GM has to cater to his players' sense of fun, and players that create combat characters are essentially stating that their sense of fun involves combat..[/quote']

 

That is what the GMs I prefer to play with do.

 

There was a thread some time ago about GMs designing games for players x players designing characters for the GM's game. There was a great number of people saying it was the GM's game, not the players's.

 

 

Depends on the comic. I am one of those people that think we are in a comic Rennessance right now and you can pretty much find any kind of super hero story you are looking for' date=' from the death and destruction laden (Ultimates and The Authority come to mind) to almost serene (Noble Causes and whatever).[/quote']

 

You certainly can find a place for non-violence in superhero stories, but it usually is rare. Mostly it's combat-oriented characters taking a breather in more serene circunstances.

 

There are very few superhero characters that aren't designed with at least some kind of combat in mind. The exception is stuff completely outside of superhero comics, like the Wild Cards series of novels.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Not true. How many comic stories end up requiring characters to use their abilities, their technical or mystical know how, or their non-powered resources to solve the Big Problem.

 

For good comics, a whole lot of them. See recent runs of JLA, Superman, Greenlantern, and the Flash for examples of how things other than punching the villains are just as important as punching him.

 

But how are these issues resolved in-game? "Make your Science: Biochemistry roll" is hard to get as excited about as a combat encounter. And it's tough to use good tactics against germs.

[austenandrews]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Personally I like "niche" superheroes and would like to see more of them. You know, like an "ocean-based" hero or a "space-based" hero or a hero who drives a superpowered car. These guys have a mile-long hook. I get a big kick out of them. Of course as PCs they present a challenge to scenario-building, but as long as they're designed to be reasonably effective outside their niche, I love the flavor they provide.

 

-AA

[Metaphysician]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Woohoo, somebody else remembers Steeljack!!

 

Also, re: non-combat characters- Aberrant supported that quite well. Of course, Aberrant is only barely a superhero game.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Personally I like "niche" superheroes and would like to see more of them. You know, like an "ocean-based" hero or a "space-based" hero or a hero who drives a superpowered car. These guys have a mile-long hook. I get a big kick out of them. Of course as PCs they present a challenge to scenario-building, but as long as they're designed to be reasonably effective outside their niche, I love the flavor they provide.

 

-AA

 

Then Austin you would love Lancer. My PC in a New Gods Game. Does he have a car for you. Think the Cadmus kids Wonderwagon on Steroids.

 

Now to upgrade it for MegaMovement Flight and Teleportation.

 

GM: What do you do?

Lancer: I contact the Vette and order a Nuke from Orbit!

GM: What?

 

Hawksmoor

[Mr. R]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Or, by extension, players taking generally unatractive characters. i mean, the human ooking characters be all hawt is okay, because that is the way it is in the comics. But players seem to shy away from being the guy covered in thorns or the chick who is a pile of worms. Unattrative (as opposed to wierd but still cool) is generally associaed with villains, i guess.

 

Also, you don't see enough non fighting types, frex Raven from the orifginal Teen Titans. She was a high point character and a badass, but all her powers were healing, empathy, and the occasional such you into my dark soul. Everybody likes being able to hit things, I guess. Or, maybe, characters like that are too complex when it comes to char gen.

 

Reynard

 

In my last campaign I gm'ed one PC had a healer type. Where the rest of the team had 10-12 dice attacks, his nastiest was a 3d6 ego blast. But he had the second highest defences on the team, including a 15/15 FF, usable by other only when touching. He would rush in the middle of fights to rescue civilians, heal the wounded and sometimes even support the other team on certain tactics (placing his FF on the team archer so he could get off an arrow while under heavy fire for example). Man I loved the concept. Too bad I had to leave town 3 months later and cancel the game.

 

Jerome

[starblaze]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

I had a character like that in my Champions game once. Her name was Arcana. She was basically a sorceror who had a Magic VPP at 45 pts. She didn't have really powerful attacks but she could do things like heal, sense and discriminate different types of magic and had a killer enhanced senses suite. She was basically a sideline type but we had enough front-liners that it wasn't a problem.

 

And to the answer your question I would like to have a Batman type character in my game. An invesigative type would be nice because otherwise I always have to supply some NPC detective to do all the work. Also I have never had a character with no powers ala, Captain America, Batman type. That is something I would like to see.

[Brandi]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

I wouldn't call Captain America 'no powers' exactly...

[Storm Shadow]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

I can see my characters are always dark, with an unhappy history, a Marvel Comics kind. I like to see this kind of personality in a "DC Comics" world.

 

Always dressed with black or dark clothes and those stuff.

 

But in my opinion a superheores team must be a mix of personalities and a character must have what the others doesn't have. It would be a bit boring if all the characters are "jokeman" like Blue Beatle or if everybody is "bitter" like Batman.

 

I prefer the Deathstroke The Terminator (or batman ) kind of superheroe. He should be crazy to use those clothes and walk over the buildings.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Minority characters whose personalities are not solely defined by their ethnicities. I like the fact that the comics got away from having all white, Middle American, square-jawed types. I hated some of the dialogue that they would give those characters. Why did Chris Claremont's characters all have to have ethnically flavored exclamations? Why does every Black character (up until recent times) have to be an Angry Black Man? I'm Black, and I am often angry about a lot of things, but I don't think that stereotype holds true. If I was having a telephone conversation with you, and you hadn't met me, you wouldn't know what ethnicity I am. My parents and teachers told me to speak as correctly as possible in social and professional situations. This is true of many Black people I know, just as it is for most people in modern America. Do I use slang? Ya damn skippy!! It's just that that is not my defining characteristic. Isn't there a better way to give a character a little flavor. By the way, writers, all Black people don't agree on everything. It would be impossible for any group to do so. I have to admit I've never had that conversation with anyone-- not about superheroes, anyway. Things have changed some over the years, but I still cringe when I see an ethnic character who just exists to expose a certain social ill, or to act as a mouthpiece for the author's social commentary. I went a little off topic, but I think you get me.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

OK. I realize I went off a little there. Here are some examples of ethnic characters that I have liked:

 

Christopher Priest is doing some interesting things with The Black Panther. The man is a super genius, well-educated and a monarch. Priest is getting the character right, in my opinion. Back in the day, he was more like a sidekick to the Avengers.

 

Back in the 80s, Marvel had a character named Coyote. I think it was the old Epic imprint. It had a lot of Native American mystical themes I thought that that was really well done. If I remember, the title died out pretty quickly.

 

There was a character in Astro City. Powerglove? She was the daughter of a villain by the same name who inhereted her father's gear and tried to follow in his footsteps. They happened to be--note happened to be-- Hispanic.

[Rene]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

Woohoo, somebody else remembers Steeljack!!

 

Also, re: non-combat characters- Aberrant supported that quite well. Of course, Aberrant is only barely a superhero game.

 

Steeljack so totally ruled!

 

He had all those issues and emotional charge, and I don't know why, it's kinda rare nowadays to see bricks with such emotional depth or even some old-fashioned angst (except the done-to-death, "I'm a ugly monster and I want to be human again", Steeljack had only a little of that).

 

Yep, Aberrant really supported mental and social supercharacters. And not only as "guys who win superfights in alternate ways", but really building careers using their powers as you thought they'd logically be more useful. Aberrant had many flaws, but one of the good things in the game was this.

[devlin1]

Re: What super hero concepts would you like to see more of?

 

There was a character in Astro City. Powerglove? She was the daughter of a villain by the same name who inhereted her father's gear and tried to follow in his footsteps. They happened to be--note happened to be-- Hispanic.

Golden Glove.

 

And everyone should remember Steeljack! C'mon, people!