Agent combat....

[austenandrews]

Re: Agent combat....

 

There, I cleaned them up a little.

 

The tables are straightforward. They apply when you have multiple opponents who have the same to-hit roll. Find their to-hit roll in the lefthand column. The numbers in that row determine how many hits succeed on a single dice roll.

 

Example: You've got 5 agents who have a 7-less to shoot the hero. Roll 3d6 once. If you rolled a 3, four shots hit. If you rolled a 4, three shots hit. 5-7 is two hits and 8-10 is one hit.

 

So you can see that even if each agent only hits on a 7-less, a team of five has a 50-50 chance of landing one shot. If you have two teams of five, you're likely to average one hit per Phase.

 

-AA

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Agent combat....

 

There, I cleaned them up a little.

 

The tables are straightforward. They apply when you have multiple opponents who have the same to-hit roll. Find their to-hit roll in the lefthand column. The numbers in that row determine how many hits succeed on a single dice roll.

 

Example: You've got 5 agents who have a 7-less to shoot the hero. Roll 3d6 once. If you rolled a 3, four shots hit. If you rolled a 4, three shots hit. 5-7 is two hits and 8-10 is one hit.

 

So you can see that even if each agent only hits on a 7-less, a team of five has a 50-50 chance of landing one shot. If you have two teams of five, you're likely to average one hit per Phase.

 

-AA

 

An interesting approach. My PCs would probably have a hard time...as they're not...as a general rule strong on DCV...or defense in general for that matter.

 

Rob

[KA.]

Re: Agent combat....

 

Dr. MID-Nite,

In addition to all the great advice that has gone before: PLAN, PLAN, PLAN!

Remember that these are supposed to be Agents. The guys who do the grunt work. That means that they are not supposed to be tactical geniuses who make constant changes to the battle-plan on the fly.

But they are supposed to work for people who have a good concept of basic strategy.

So, the best way to run them is to have a plan!

And stick to it!

Sometimes they will win, and sometimes they will lose, but every time they will gather data.

 

DO NOT, try to make individual tactical decisions for 25 agents in real time.

Do it just the way you would if you were a nest leader. Make a plan for them to follow.

 

 

First Encounter.

 

15 Agents split into three equal teams.

 

Team One is trying to: steal something, kill someone, kidnap someone, whatever. A couple of them are lookouts, the rest are doing the job.

 

Team Two is the Obvious Guard Unit.

 

They are a discreet distance away from Team One, preferably behind some type of cover.

If any trouble starts, they are supposed to concentrate their fire on one target, whoever seems to be the biggest threat, until he goes down.

Then they attack the next, etc.

 

Team Three is the Covert Team.

They are either: Out of Sight (Sniper Positions), Mobile (some type of armored vehicle that can appear quickly), or Disguised (dressed as civilians, cops, guards, construction workers, etc.)

They are supposed to help Team One escape.

Since Team Two does not have any direct involvement in the crime (they just picked a fight with some supers, as a matter of fact, who attacked who first?) they are "expendable" since they may be fairly easy to get off through legal channels. So, Team Three is there to help with the escape. They either use Entangles, Flash Attacks, NND's, or cause a distraction (blow something up over, under, or near civilians.)

 

This is Plan A.

 

Have it written down, step by step, in Phases, and Follow it.

You can even pre-roll attacks, figure out which ones hit which Hero, etc.

Just run the play when the time comes.

As you run it, check things off or make notes.

But stick to the plan!

 

This is the first encounter, and should be fairly easy for the Heroes.

Assume that these are new Viper agents under a new Nest Leader.

Or that they are deliberately doing this to gauge the Heroes strengths and weaknesses.

 

 

Possible Notes from First Encounter:

 

"Team One came under immediate fire, spoiling their theft of the Gem. They need to be less obvious, or a distraction needs to occur as soon as the Heroes appear."

 

"Team Two was unable to damage the "biggest threat" very much. And the other heroes were able to pick them off without much trouble at all, since they were not under fire. Maybe we should attack the weakest hero first?

And they were all bunched up, an Area Effect attack Stunned half of them right away."

 

"Team Three was fairly useless. They stood by waiting for a chance to help Team One escape, but when the Heroes attacked Team One hand-to-hand, they could not use their Entangles without also hitting Team One."

 

Now, after the session, have a "meeting" with yourself. Imagine that you are a Nest Leader.

 

What went Wrong?

What went Right?

What could be improved?

 

 

Second Encounter:

 

21 Agents divided into 4 unequal teams.

 

Team One : The Mission Team. They are the ones trying to accomplish the goal. This team is only three people, unless the mission requires more. They are either in plain clothes or disguised. They try to be as discreet as possible when going about their mission. They are not here to fight. They have no lookouts, because they just draw attention. They are in radio contact with the other Agents.

 

Team Two : The Shock Force. 6 Agents spread around the scene in Six different covered sniper positions. As soon as any Heroes appear, they begin to attack with heavy weapons. Two each coordinate attacks on three different Heroes. The Stongest, the Fastest, and The Weakest. They also attack all at once, attempting to gain a Surprise Bonus. The idea is to split the Heroes in several directions, and possibly knock some of them out of the air. If heroes have to rescue other, falling heroes, this gives Team One more time to complete the mission.

 

Team Three : The Knockout Squad. 6 Agents, also with heavy weapons, who hold their action, waiting for Team Two to Stun a Hero. As soon as they see a Stunned hero, they all attack at once, hoping to knock them out of the fight completely. They also make sure to attack in a way that knocks the Hero away from Team One, to avoid interfering with the Mission.

 

Team Four : Agent Defense Squad. 6 Agents. Rather than just waiting to help with an escape attempt by Team One, this team holds back until the Heroes attack any of their fellow agents.

They are in a covered position, and have weapons with "No Range Mod" and "Area Effect One Hex".

As soon as they see a Hero approach another agent position, they will coordinate their attacks on him.

Hopefully this will happen late enough in the fight that Team Three will have a phase ready to take another Hero out of the fight.

This is quite likely, since the Heroes may find Team Three's tactics "nasty" they are likely to be right in front of Team Three when Team Four attacks.

Also, Team Four always takes up a position opposite Team One, so that when they attack they draw attention away from Team One.

 

Possible Notes from Second Encounter:

 

"Team One was not discovered until they had nearly completed their mission.

By that time the Hero team was in a battered condition, and Team One was able to get away in the confusion."

 

"Team Two did manage to Stun one Hero (The Weakest) and Team Three did take them out of the fight.

The Heroes were then split.

Some of them went after team Two, and the space among the members of Team Two made this take some time. However, since there was only one Agent in each location, the Heroes made short work of them.

Perhaps split team two into three two-man teams. They might last longer when the Heroes counter-attack.

 

Team Three: The remaining Heroes did go after Team Three after seeing them attack their fallen comrade, but the Heroes were rather brutal in their response. Our agents are supposed to be able to handle getting hit, but they are of no use to us when spending weeks in the infirmary. Perhaps we need a "softer" way of taking out the downed heroes, that will not cause such an angry response. Gas?"

 

Team Four: Was able to take down one of the Heroes attacking Team Three.

This tactic worked very well. The Heroes ended up in a crossfire between Teams Three and Four, at least until the remaining Heroes finished with Team Two and joined the attack.

 

Although the mission was a success, losing 86% of the Agents on a mission is not acceptable. Perhaps we need more mobility, to allow more agents to escape?"

 

 

Just keep making a plan, following it, and improving it during downtime, just like an actual nest leader would.

 

Don't try to "think" for each agent in the field while you are conducting the fight. Agents have the advantage of numbers. Heroes have the advantage of flexibility. That is how it should work.

 

KA.

[Prometheus]

Re: Agent combat....

 

Does anyone know of a Lazy Bum's Guide To Tactics? Like maybe an online resource that runs down the basics? I'd be curious to see some real-life guidelines.

 

-AA

 

There are hundreds of wargaming sites out there, and most of them include some notes on tactics to take a page from. With some degree of similarity built in (small groups, dice based probabilities, etc.), these are easier to adapt to a role playing game than raw, general strategies.

 

Take this page for example:

http://www.thewarp.net/war/tigersofveda/mc40K3.html

 

A quick Google search should get you plenty more.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Agent combat....

 

My radical suggestion.

 

I am all for wiping the battlemat with Maximan using a platoon of 150point agents. In fact using the stock VIPER 5-Teams from the BBB I am FEARED.

 

But, let us not forget one of the purposes of agents.

 

MOOKS!!!

 

Low powered foes that let the Heroes shine as they mow through them like a scythe through winter wheat. It is cimetatic and fun for the PCs.

 

Where would Daredevil, Spiderman, or the master of mook fighting The Batman be with ultrapowerful mooks throwing campaign limit attacks and AE radius and Explosion grenade cannons? Well...those guys would be fine, but the point is not to forget agents exist as obstactles to slow the heroes down BEFORE the main fight.

 

Occasionally throw an elite group against the heroes using these tactics, but mostly just let the PCs cream them.

 

Hawkmsoor

[Trebuchet]

Re: Agent combat....

 

To a large extent I agree that this is the main function of agents, but not in all campaigns and situations. If you're running an Avengers/JLA-type game you're not going to fight agents very much.

 

Straight military and quasi-military organizations may be more common in such campaigns. In our campaign we much more often fight soldiers than VIPER-style agents.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Agent combat....

 

3. Entangles are great' date=' but Flashes can be even more annoying. Running a fight with 4E Viper, an agent with a Solar (6d6 Flash Explosion) rifle hosed the entire team. This presumes a relative lack of Flash Defense, of course.[/quote']

 

The main reason that trick worked was that the flash was AE, and hence targetting wasn't a problem. A secondary reason was the presumed lack of Flash Defense. Either of those kick in and the tactic doesn't really work.

 

When you can arrange it, Invisibility is superior because it doesn't require a targetting roll at all and can't be defended against so cheaply as Flash Defense. However it doesn't cause the "collateral" issues that Darkness and Flash cause because it's only hiding the agent, not taking out the opponent's sense altogether.

 

Darkness is also pretty good as long as your side is prepared for it. This can be as simple as buying Radar with focus. It still has a targetting roll but it's against a hex, and isn't stopped by Flash Defense.

 

All of the above, of course, are stopped by the purchase of a second targetting sense -- something all my players did, and something that's fairly easy to justify.

 

The main advantages of an Entangle are that they reduce the DCV of the victim to 0 -- making them realistically hittable by non-AE attacks -- and that they have the potential to cost the victim phases. Any time you can attack and the enemy can't is a major advantage for your side. "Both take damage" allows for other attacks to do full damage without costing so much the base of the power isn't too weak.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Agent combat....

 

Does anyone know of a Lazy Bum's Guide To Tactics? Like maybe an online resource that runs down the basics? I'd be curious to see some real-life guidelines.

 

-AA

 

Lazy Bum's Guide to Tactics.

 

#1> Get there the firstest with the mostest. Not an exact quote but pretty close

 

#2> In air combat, there's a rule that says the side that spots the other first has already won. That's an exaggeration but there's a really good point there. You've already heard me talking about sense related stuff, right?

 

#3> Don't bring a knife to a gun fight -- but whenever possible bring a gun to a knife fight. Worded another way, use the weapons that are going to hurt the other side in such a way that their chance of hurting you is minimized.

 

#4> The war won on defense hasn't happened yet, and likely never will. Even in a defensive or retreating posture it's necessary to use localized counterattacks.

 

#5> The simplest and most basic of tactics -- hit the other guy hard/early enough to take him out without getting hit.

 

#6> The only thing worse than a shot that missed is a shot that wasn't fired.

 

#7> Hit them where, when, and how it hurts.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Agent combat....

 

My radical suggestion.

 

I am all for wiping the battlemat with Maximan using a platoon of 150point agents. In fact using the stock VIPER 5-Teams from the BBB I am FEARED.

 

But, let us not forget one of the purposes of agents.

 

MOOKS!!!

 

Low powered foes that let the Heroes shine as they mow through them like a scythe through winter wheat. It is cimetatic and fun for the PCs.

 

Where would Daredevil, Spiderman, or the master of mook fighting The Batman be with ultrapowerful mooks throwing campaign limit attacks and AE radius and Explosion grenade cannons? Well...those guys would be fine, but the point is not to forget agents exist as obstactles to slow the heroes down BEFORE the main fight.

 

Occasionally throw an elite group against the heroes using these tactics, but mostly just let the PCs cream them.

 

Hawkmsoor

 

Well....my intention wasn't that the agents had to win...only that they had to at least be considered a credible threat. I'd like to be able to use agents in those sessions where there just isn't going to be time to run a full blown fight. maybe the heroes just want to patrol the city tonight and they stumble onto something. That kind of thing...

 

Rob

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Agent combat....

 

AA,

 

Thanks for posting the tables!

[pinecone]

Re: Agent combat....

 

Lots of good ideas...basicly you need to make a decision on what role agents will play. In some games agents are mooks, in others they are the main form of oposision, some are a mix, one reason to use good tactics for agents is to set an example to the players. I have a military back ground and most of my players would rather fight a villian team than face a team of well drilled agents, thats because I play the villians like the heros...No tactics or sense at all. I personally would never dream of going up against a super being without a d*mn good plan and a team I trusted, so I play agents as being serious, I also mix in mooks, cause that too is realistic. But most "Villian "organisations are mostly agents. So this is a feel issue that you should think about now, playing a squad of agents with speed 3 as a single super that has a speed of 15, and takes 5 hits to finnish off is a good way to have a reasonably compatant, and not too hard to run version of agents....just use a squad per hero plus some leader types and your good to go....

[Metaphysician]

Re: Agent combat....

 

Personally, I don't think VIPER should normally be thought of as "mooks." Even the average VIPER agent is the equivalent of a well trained soldier, under ( presumedly ) competent commanders ( though that second point has more room for leeway ).

 

For a typical 350 point game, a couple squads of 150 point agents with even standard VIPER equipment should pose a serious threat, just as much if not more than the average low level supervillain.

 

Now, granted, there are complicating factors.

 

1. Rather incompetent Nest Leader can screw over even competent agents by sending them in with lousy strategy or micromanaging their tactics. OTOH, this type of Nest Leader isn't long for the world. . .

 

2. Perhaps its not VIPER agents you are fighting, but actually just low level crooks that got hired recently. In which case, you are probably looking at a diversion or a trap. . .

 

3. If your characters are 750+ points, like mine, than yeah, 150 point agents are mooks. Thats when you haul out the SCS squads. *eg*

 

Basically, VIPER is meant to be an enemy on par with the other master villains. Just because its not led by a powerful superhuman should not be held against it.

[Tom]

Re: Agent combat....

 

Everyone has had good points, so most of what I'll say is a repeat...

 

To be credible:

 

--The agents have to be able to hit the heroes.

 

--The agents have to be able to hurt the heroes.

 

If the agents cannot hit without an act of diety, or if they do hit the heroes can ignore the attacks, then the heroes are going to treat the agents as nothing more than a minor diversion from the real objective.

 

If you've got the 5e VIPER book, go through the weapon's section. VIPER has a big toybox with weapons suitable for almost every occasion. Given the 4/8 team setup, I make every 4th agent a heavy weapon specialist.

 

You don't have to consistantly gear up for a hero-stomp, but equip agents realistically for their mission. If the agents are robbing a bank, and the heroes are supposed to be on dimension X, or dealing with a planned crisis across town, arm them to deal with cops and if heroes show the agents get creamed and the heroes look good on the 6 o'clock news. If they expect to deal with heroes, give the agents something that will make the heroes take notice -- heroes will learn to cream the guy with the grenade launcher or BFG early, just like real life. If the target is the heroes, arm the agents to stomp heroes -- staggering attacks can be vicious. Open with AOE Flash or Entangles to drop the heroes' DCV then hammer them with attacks they're known to be weak against or NNDs...

[zornwil]

Re: Agent combat....

 

My rule of thumb tends to be for serious heavy-duty agents: 3:1 ratio to heroes should be effective in threatening the heroes, and, the way I tend to do them, they're generally not effective "enough" unless the PCs make mistakes. Two reasons: one is simply that I don't run them that well; but second, and why I don't worry about the first, is that most often these are "flavor" battles, there to demonstrate the sorts of forces against the PCs. As such they are more of a plot point than a life-or-death battle. But the 3:1 if played smarter should generally be capable of taking in an isolated hero on their own. Most often, the "flavor" combats like this are where the agents came after 1 or 2 heroes, expecting them to be isolated, and the other PCs scramble to make it in time, most often if not always doing so.

 

Less effective agents range from "scads of them can't be defeated if they're in overwhelming numbers" (though now the PCs are high-powered enough that is rarer) to just plain ineffective mooks no matter how many.