JohnTaber Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 Hi Gents, I sold some of my older RPG junk on eBay now I have some money to spend on new RPG stuff. I was thinking of getting either M&M or GOO. Which product would Hero fans recommend? WAIT WAIT! I'm a total Hero fanatic...BUT like many other intelligent and well informed gamers who prefer Hero I'm always looking at other systems to keep myself apprised of the superhero RPG industry at large... Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 I really couldn't say. However, the GOO company seem to treat their customers/fans well and that's always a bonus for me. I hear good things about both, but it maybe awhile before I can take advantage of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 I own both, but I think SAS will give you more bang for your buck (and they have a roster book out, too... short, but cheap). Storn has had good things to say about M&M, though. Hunt up the other threads on this comparison for more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperPheemy Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 Green Ronin put out a recent press release allowing folks to publish their own M&M products so long as the products don't violate the creative setting copyrights in place. In other words, coming up with the "SuperPheemy Rogues Gallery" populated with unique and new characters is just fine, putting out "Freedom City, the Alternate Universe" violates the agreement. For what it's worth, Green Ronin, GOO, and Hero are all top-notch companies putting out exceptional product right now. Honestly, I've seldom seen such enthusiastic developer and fan-base support from game companies EVER. I'd take a few minutes at your game store, and compare both side-by-side, and pick the one that fits your tastes best. Because these products are that equal in quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug McCrae Posted March 19, 2003 Report Share Posted March 19, 2003 They both have their hearts in the right place IMO, emphasising the fun stuff in superhero universes. You know - acronymically named organisations, robots with all the powers of a superhero team, hitting your opponent over the head with a Cadillac. With SAS, you just get a bit more for your money. I was a little disappointed with the size of M&M. (I loved the Atomic Brain though - best thing in it.) SAS has a good short history of comics and an excellent section on genre conventions, which contains this little gem in a paragraph headed 'Gorillas'- "For some reason, comic books with gorillas on the cover always sell more than usual. In fact, in the 1960s DC Comics had to create an editorial policy limiting the number of issues per month with gorillas on the cover to keep everyone from doing it!" Buy Silver Age Sentinels. The only superhero roleplaying system with a section devoted to gorillas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Gorillas sell? Then Millenium City should go like hotcakes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nato Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 I'd recommend M&M over SAS any day of the week. If I couldn't play Hero/Champions ever again, M&M is the game I'd go with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Currently testing M&M, as Storn is running it every other week, while I run Hero 4.5 (4th Edition, with only the 5th Edition changes that I like) on the other nights. Haven't played SAS, so I can't speak to it, but M&M is worth picking up for the sole reason that it is the only d20 system done correctly. It is d20 based, but takes it in a new direction that is quite smart... I just don't think it holds a candle to Hero... but is fun for quickie, very four color, games. It should be noted that SAS just got the rights to the Stormwatch/Authority characters and setting. Doing it in their Tri-Stat system. Also, the SAS Tri-Stat main book is in beautiful color, with great art, characters, setting, etc. As others have stated before, compare 'em at the store, and go with what inspires you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nato Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 No kiddin'? I love The Authority. Cool! May check out SAS after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 I've read SAS Tri-Stat but haven't yet read more than a couple of chapters out of M&M. So far, I'd say SAS Tri-Stat is going to feel closer to Hero than M&M, and does a better job of introducing their system to an absolute beginner; M&M feels like you're really expected to have read the D20 Player's Handbook before hand (not an unreasonable assumption, but I haven't). SAS Tri-Stat has a bit of a lead product support, too. The roster book is a smallish pamphlet, with a character sheet and a description for each character which is brief, falling somewhere between Enemies and Classic Enemies in length. SAS seems easy to convert to Hero. I tried to convert some characters in Tri-Stat to Hero, while Morningstar (IIRC) went D20 to Hero. They came out recognizably similar, differing only in a skill or two and a point or three of one characteristic or another. If you've got five bucks to burn, look for Inquest #96 (8th Anniversary Special) with the 70 page Marvel Universe RPG intro in it. It's lengthy enough to give you a feel for that game, and probably save you from buying the rules for it when they debut in May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadha Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 I borrowed SAS (the tri-stat version) from a friend a while back. I can't say much about the system because I didn't get too deep into reading it, but the layout and genre information was excellent. As stated before, any company that recognizes the importance of gorillas (and gorilla cities) to the superhero genre gets bonus points. (Trivial information time- For those that don't know, DC comics discovered in the 1950's that comics with gorillas on the cover sold twice as well as comics without.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Originally posted by Nuadha I borrowed SAS (the tri-stat version) from a friend a while back. I can't say much about the system because I didn't get too deep into reading it, but the layout and genre information was excellent. As stated before, any company that recognizes the importance of gorillas (and gorilla cities) to the superhero genre gets bonus points. (Trivial information time- For those that don't know, DC comics discovered in the 1950's that comics with gorillas on the cover sold twice as well as comics without.) A bit off topic... but then, hey, that's what threads are for... Nuahda and I game together regularly. We are very different ends of the spectrum in what we want out of the RPG experience. I'm the Hero System fan... where as James/Nuahda is really loving M&M and it's simple, four color experience. I'm not a four color fan at all. In fact, I GM Champions/Hero in order to tell stories and create a "super hero world" that is how I want it to be, not like the comics, where they drop the ball in many areas. Super pets and talking gorillas are a clear example of silly crap I just can not stomach. Early Ellis Stormwatch issues, where supers decide to make a better world, and the socio-political repercussions of such decisions are explored... well that is EXACTLY what I'd always wanted to see in comics. The fact that SAS is trying to do both... well, that concerns me. It might work... if the system if flexible enough... but it might not. The Authority/Stormwatch is about genocide and political assassination and superhumans lording over normals. Talking gorillas are a different world. I'll really be taking a look as SAS, now, that it looks like they are tackling a subject more to my liking, as opposed to their four color stuff, initially presented. I guess we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTaber Posted March 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Hi Everyone: I think I might try SAS based on everyone's comments. Is there a difference between the d20 and TriStat versions? Is one preferred over the other? Hi Tom: Thanks for the Inquest info! I'll look for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadha Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Skip the d20 version. GoO just made it because they felt "they had to" to get any attention in today's market. I've never played Tri-stat, but I hear it's an excellent and very flexible system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadha Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Originally posted by RDU Neil Super pets and talking gorillas are a clear example of silly crap I just can not stomach. There is nothing silly about an army of talking Gorillas. Actually, I appreciate both styles. I love Krypto the super-dog, but I'm also loving the current X-Men series. It just depends on my mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Is there a difference between the d20 and TriStat versions? Is one preferred over the other?I prefer the Tri-Stat over the d20 SAS, but I also prefer M+M over SAS. As has been mentioned, though, the comic book overview in SAS is worth a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Escafarc Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Originally posted by Doug McCrae They both have their hearts in the right place IMO, emphasising the fun stuff in superhero universes. You know - acronymically named organisations, robots with all the powers of a superhero team, hitting your opponent over the head with a Cadillac. With SAS, you just get a bit more for your money. I was a little disappointed with the size of M&M. (I loved the Atomic Brain though - best thing in it.) SAS has a good short history of comics and an excellent section on genre conventions, which contains this little gem in a paragraph headed 'Gorillas'- "For some reason, comic books with gorillas on the cover always sell more than usual. In fact, in the 1960s DC Comics had to create an editorial policy limiting the number of issues per month with gorillas on the cover to keep everyone from doing it!" Buy Silver Age Sentinels. The only superhero roleplaying system with a section devoted to gorillas. At one time the four largest sub-catagories of comic book collecting were: Atomic Explosion, Bondage, Photo, and Gorillia Covers:) also Infinity Covers were big too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Originally posted by mattingly As has been mentioned, though, the comic book overview in SAS is worth a lot. If not entirely accurate in some of the remarks (one such example listed the McSpider Man as the first Spidey title in X years, completely ignoring the Web of Spider-Man series). Just don't take it as stone tablets from on high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTaber Posted March 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Hi Dave: Thanks for the reply. Sounds like both are great products. I think I'll look for M&M AND SAS TriStat. Whatever has the best eBay deal will get purchased first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Oh, if you don't care about color... I believe that the second printing (and subsequent ones) of SAS are the non-deluxe B&W versions for a few bucks cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTaber Posted March 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Hi Acro, Thanks...I was trying to figure out what Deluxe Edition meant...now I see...color. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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