Now that I've seen Reality Storm

[JJR]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

I must say' date=' the relatively low defenses of Caliburn, Mother Raven, and Slipstream surprised me. I realize the Guard has more combat levels than the Champions on average to balance it out, but yikes![/quote']

Caliburn with his 10 DEF and Slipstream with his 11 DEF are really not that far off from characters like Shugoshen 13/11 and Kinetik 15/14. Caliburn is really more of a dark champions level character in SAS.

[JJR]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

Well' date=' Green Ronin is somewhat better about that than GoO appears to be. although that hasn't held true for the M&M Annual #1, but there may have been other issues with that. Still, I agree that Hero would be the best choice to head up such a project.[/quote']

I have nothing against Green Ronin but so far freedom city, the nocturnals, and the annual have all been months late. With the annual not out yet there is a good bet that foes of freedom will also be 1-2 months late as well. If this project did come about, and I would not expect it to due to the ogl/d20 issues, I would still rather see Green Ronin do it just so I could see some champions material in color! I know it would be months like just as reality storm was but I would still love to see any champions thing in color.

[Hermit]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

( speaking about the SAS side )

 

Mother Raven has her intangibility in SAS as her defense. Thing is, IIRC, SAS allows usage of non-physical powers while intangible without extra cost.

Hmm, Mental Illusions with the Affects Real world Limitation would indeed be more formidible.

 

OTOH, there might be low defences because SAS uses a quasi-abstract health component, that incorporates stuff like willpower and intelligent evasion. It'd be best to give both Caliburn and Slipstream combat luck.

 

( actually, it'd be best to not even bother trying to keep Caliburn within his official SAS writeup limits, and build him to be as powerful as he *ought* to be, plotwise. . . )

 

Well, I see MR already has some, but I might take your advice and give her a wee bit more. Dark champion style aside (as someone else pointed out) I think I am going to give some Combat Luck or resistant defenses to Caliburn. His ability to ambush is surely handy and makes up for that lack somewhat, but, personal preference, I'd hate to see a killing attack just tear through him completely.

 

JJR- Yeah, not too far off (but more resistant)then again, I think the Champions defenses need to be about 3 higher on average as well. I maybe letting my preference for 4th ed champs defense levels bias me.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Okay, read it through, here's my view

 

It's not perfect mind you. Red Phoenix is shown as a blonde in the artwork, yet mentioned as a redhead in one of her disadvantages.

That's a feature, not a bug. The full-colour hardback SAS has two rather different looking pictures of Red Phoenix. One has red hair and is kind of tough looking (the one on the cover), the other has blonde hair and looks a bit more Silver Age apart from her 90s style bare midriff. I think they're Silver Age/Iron Age versions or maybe pre-Crisis/post-Crisis or something like that.

[Hermit]

Re: Okay, read it through, here's my view

 

That's a feature' date=' not a bug. [/quote']

 

 

The full-colour hardback SAS has two rather different looking pictures of Red Phoenix. One has red hair and is kind of tough looking (the one on the cover), the other has blonde hair and looks a bit more Silver Age apart from her 90s style bare midriff. I think they're Silver Age/Iron Age versions or maybe pre-Crisis/post-Crisis or something like that.

Okay, that explains a lot. Thanks.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Okay, read it through, here's my view

 

I must say, the relatively low defenses of Caliburn, Mother Raven, and Slipstream surprised me. I realize the Guard has more combat levels than the Champions on average to balance it out, but yikes!

 

Now, on the flip side, Red Phoenix and Sentinel have no such problem.

 

I was a little surprised at how low the Constitutions of the SAS characters came out in the conversion, especially the major powerhouses. Kreuzritter is the highest at 30, and Iron Duke has only 15! I realize that most of the SAS characters don't burn energy using their powers the way Champions characters burn END, eliminating one major use for CON. Certainly the strongest characters have fairly high defenses, but they also have some honkin' huge attacks, so CON-Stunning would be a real concern. A fight between Sentinel and Iron Duke would probably be decided by the first solid blow one of them landed on the other. I would definitely consider bumping up Constitutions for Sentinel, Iron Duke, Red Phoenix and maybe Kreuzritter, or add some Damage Reduction.

 

The adventure itself is solid, and I like how it works in major characters from each universe without having them take over from the PCs. The Crystal Palace is an intriguing location with definite potential long-term use.

 

I haven't studied the translation matrix closely enough to pass judgement, especially since I'm not too familiar with Tri-Stat, but it certainly looks comprehensive.

[Hermit]

Re: Okay, read it through, here's my view

 

The adventure itself is solid, and I like how it works in major characters from each universe without having them take over from the PCs. The Crystal Palace is an intriguing location with definite potential long-term use.

Total agreement. I also find myself hoping that other beings similar to Entropus, the Trickster, etc will get mention in some upcoming products. It makes me nostalgic for early Dr. Strange, Adam Warlock, and Silver Surfer stuff.

One wonders who the Multiverse equivilent of Eternity, Death, and the Inbetweener might be. Let alone the Living Tribunal

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Okay, read it through, here's my view

 

Total agreement. I also find myself hoping that other beings similar to Entropus, the Trickster, etc will get mention in some upcoming products. It makes me nostalgic for early Dr. Strange, Adam Warlock, and Silver Surfer stuff.

One wonders who the Multiverse equivilent of Eternity, Death, and the Inbetweener might be. Let alone the Living Tribunal

 

Seek out those tomes of hidden lore called The Mystic World and Galactic Champions, and many of your questions shall be answered, my son.

[Hermit]

Re: Okay, read it through, here's my view

 

Seek out those tomes of hidden lore called The Mystic World and Galactic Champions' date=' and many of your questions shall be answered, my son. [/quote']

 

Thank you wise lord of the Northern Realm

 

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

Conversions can do wacky things.

 

I still fondly remember the DC Heroes to Hero and V&V to Hero Conversions I found. I still have the vast majority of the DC Heroes 2nd & 3rd Edition Characters converted to hero, and A good chunk of the V&V universe as well, but it was on MetaCreator and I forgot to Convert them to HD I simply erased the VIllains...

 

I can't believe you did that either. I wish we could send the RCMP in to recover you hard drive.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

Caliburn is built as a low-powered hero in SAS. When you consider his character point totals I was shocked that he came out as powerful as he did in the hero conversion. Caliburn is a 125 point SAS character. He is not supposed to be Batman-like in power.

 

Yeah, he's built like that, but he's not *backgrounded* like that.

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

With Hero managing the project' date=' please. I've come to like on-time shipping...[/quote']Meow!

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

I must say, the relatively low defenses of Caliburn, Mother Raven, and Slipstream surprised me. I realize the Guard has more combat levels than the Champions on average to balance it out, but yikes!

 

Now, on the flip side, Red Phoenix and Sentinel have no such problem.

Could be more a flaw of the conversion process than a reflection of the characters in their home system..but SAS characters often get by without buying Armour and/or FF. A high level of HP probably should translate to Hero as some extra (non-resistant) defenses.

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

Mother Raven has her intangibility in SAS as her defense. Thing is' date=' IIRC, SAS allows usage of non-physical powers while intangible without extra cost.[/quote']Dunno if that's actually true, the rules are silent on that point, though AFAIK, most people play that anything which would require an Ability to affect an incorporeal character also requires one to be used by an incorporeal character.

 

( actually, it'd be best to not even bother trying to keep Caliburn within his official SAS writeup limits, and build him to be as powerful as he *ought* to be, plotwise. . . )

'Course you're free to do so, but he is already exactly as powerful as the designers intended him to be.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

Yes, and the designers contradicted themselves on it. If you are going to write a less-than-normal-starting-level character, don't give him a decades-long backstory career.

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Okay, read it through, here's my view

 

I was a little surprised at how low the Constitutions of the SAS characters came out in the conversion' date=' especially the major powerhouses. Kreuzritter is the highest at 30, and Iron Duke has only 15! I realize that most of the SAS characters don't burn energy using their powers the way Champions characters burn END, eliminating one major use for CON. Certainly the strongest characters have fairly high defenses, but they also have some honkin' huge attacks, so CON-Stunning would be a real concern. A fight between Sentinel and Iron Duke would probably be decided by the first solid blow one of them landed on the other. I would definitely consider bumping up Constitutions for Sentinel, Iron Duke, Red Phoenix and maybe Kreuzritter, or add some Damage Reduction.[/quote']Yeah..there is no real analogue to CON-Stunning in SAS, so straight conversions of Body to CON may not reflect the resistance to that effect that SAS characters should have. Maybe they should get a percentage of Body converted to extra CON (Only to resist Stunning)

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

Yes' date=' and the designers contradicted themselves on it. If you are going to write a less-than-normal-starting-level character, don't give him a decades-long backstory career.[/quote']Feel free to change him to suit your campaign's needs. Just saying that you think the presented version is too weak, probably won't get GoO to change the write-up for you.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

Feel free to change him to suit your campaign's needs. Just saying that you think the presented version is too weak' date=' probably won't get GoO to change the write-up for you.[/quote']

 

Most system to system conversions have anomalous results in some areas, just because the mechanics of the systems vary. I've found it more effective to get an understanding of the character's powers, backdrop and power level from the narrative, and write it up myself as I think it's best reflected. A conversion system provides a speed advantage, but often produces less than satisfactory results.

[Armitage]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

So I'm looking at Red Phoenix's Champions write-up, and I suddenly think "That can't be right."

So I look at her SAS write-up, and I have to ask...

...exactly what good is a personal force field with Affects Desolid.

Oooh, a Desolid character can't go through you, they actually have to take the time to go around you instead.

The only thing I can think of is a defense against some sort of spectral attack that's NND or AVLD against defenses that Affect Desolid.

[Hermit]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

Could be more a flaw of the conversion process than a reflection of the characters in their home system..but SAS characters often get by without buying Armour and/or FF. A high level of HP probably should translate to Hero as some extra (non-resistant) defenses.

 

Okay, thanks. As I don't know Tri Stat, comparing systems is hard. Now that I have RS:WWC though, I will be keeping an eye out for SAS materials as well as Champs.

 

Heck, I might even use the 'merged world' option mentioned.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

Most system to system conversions have anomalous results in some areas' date=' just because the mechanics of the systems vary. I've found it more effective to get an understanding of the character's powers, backdrop and power level from the narrative, and write it up myself as I think it's best reflected. A conversion system provides a speed advantage, but often produces less than satisfactory results.[/quote']

 

I agree that differences between the systems will produce incongruities in straight conversions, but I for one appreciate that "speed advantage." Looking at the SAS characters in HERO in Reality Storm, I get a very good idea of the type and magnitude of their abilities, and can easily tweak their writeups to suit my preferences. I usually do that with published characters anyway.

[Hermit]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

What LL said, heck, I tweak most characters in HERO products a bit, so I'm not surprised that I'm going to tweak converted ones

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

So I'm looking at Red Phoenix's Champions write-up, and I suddenly think "That can't be right."

So I look at her SAS write-up, and I have to ask...

...exactly what good is a personal force field with Affects Desolid.

Oooh, a Desolid character can't go through you, they actually have to take the time to go around you instead.

The only thing I can think of is a defense against some sort of spectral attack that's NND or AVLD against defenses that Affect Desolid.

 

Hmm... I wonder: if someone with such a Force Field attempted to Grab a Desolid character, would the Desolid dude be unable to escape? I don't think I'd allow Strength damage to be done, but I might allow the Grabber to immobilize his or her target.

[Hermit]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

Hmm... I wonder: if someone with such a Force Field attempted to Grab a Desolid character' date=' would the Desolid dude be unable to escape? I don't think I'd allow Strength damage to be done, but I might allow the Grabber to immobilize his or her target.[/quote']

 

One also might allow it to work as hardened against certain indirect or penetrating attacks of a particular FX ("My phase ray bypasses such fields with ease.... What the beam is blocked?! impossible!" )

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Now that I've seen Reality Storm

 

One feature of the SAS bricks that's unusual for Champions writeups is their martial training/Martial Arts Skills. Iron Duke and Sentinel already have awesome raw STR, but their Martial Maneuvers allow them to dish out devastating damage, as well as add HTH versatility.

 

That, and the number and variety of his Skill Levels, are among the things I really like about Sentinel. He's not just raw power like so many high-point characters, and I think this reflects someone who really has been at this superhero business for decades. It's as if Superman had been active continuously, in continuity, ever since his Golden Age debut.