Upon Further Review: The Champions

[Metaphysician]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

You know' date=' the issue of wanting to see high-powered NPC hero writeups raises an interesting question: why do those of us who want to see them, want to see them? In a game, nobody wants a NPC to show up the PCs; they're supposed to be the stars of the show. So, what use are such characters? Benchmarks for the player-characters to be measured against? Ready-made high-end characters if players want to run in the "big leagues?" Or is it just for esthetics, because a supers universe [i']should[/i] have mighty heroes?

 

(I have my own opinions, but I don't want to color anyone's responses just yet.)

 

A combination of the three, IMHO, plus an extra factor: added verisimillitude. Specifically, the presence of mega heroes in the 700-1000 range explains why the mega *villains* haven't already won. After all, several of the most powerful could fight 350ers all day and just keep killing them, and quite a few more could trash any 350 point superteam given a realistic scenario.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

Mechanon is now one of the weakest of the "master villains." His attacks have substantially improved over his 4E version, but his defenses haven't kept pace with that increase. I suspect that he was written this way so precisely to allow beginning-level hero teams to have a chance to beat him.

 

There are a few villain or villain teams, such as 5E Eurostar, who are clearly weaker than their earlier incarnations. OTOH returning veterans Menton, Firewing, Grond, Dark Seraph and Black Paladin are all measurably more powerful, in offense, defense and versatility. Dr. D is certainly the leading candidate for "most grossly overpowered" in the current CU, but Takofanes and Gravitar are not far behind.

 

I do have to say that "overpowered" is a relative term. Dr. Destroyer is far beyond the capacity of the current Champions or any contemporary heroes so far published to deal with, but I've heard from a number of players here who assert that their teams of experienced heroes could hand the Doc his head. Certainly the upcoming "Champions 3000" hero team would have a good chance of doing so. Maybe all we need is writeups for a few more CU "head-handers."

 

Well, I wouldn't say our team would hand him his head. More like we'd "stand a chance of victory." Then again, I tend to assume that the megavillains will fight *very* competently.

[Mark Rand]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

Depends on what kinda game you're looking to run' date=' really. I think you get more interesting characters with 350points + 100 experience rather than 450 points...[/quote']

I'd tell my players that we're running our version of The Champions, but not using the iconic characters or Homestead.

In our version of Millennium City, it's a parklet. Guardian, an armored hero, and heiress Lisa Thompson, who is known in some circles as Lady Arcane, founded the team. Lisa is letting the team use her fastness as a headquarters and her housekeeper, Donna, has no problem keeping house for a group of superheroes. Among the support staff is an electronics engineer who is trained in ninjitsu and has some skill in ninja magic. She prefers working on equipment to fighting crime, but Guardian can sometimes talk her into becoming Spirit Cat.

Since the Champions face both regular threats and ones The Avengers from Marvel Comics face, make your character accordingly. Create your character concept first, then write the character up. Your base is 200 points, plus whatever you need in disadvantages and experience points. Use only enough disadvantages to make the character come alive and tell a good story.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

They would definitely need to be powerd up if they were going to act as your universe's JLA/Avengers clone. I could see making them each about 500 pt. characters (from about 400-600 pts.) Nighthawk on the low end, and maybe Witchcraft on the top.

 

One thing. I know the rules allow it, but would anyone let an average martial artist throw Mechanon? I can only think of a couple of special effects where that would even be remotely possible; it would have to be more of a clever dodge than anything else. A standard Judo style throw would seem ridiculous to me. Sorry, probably way off topic.

[Agent X]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

For my own NeoChampions Universe ("not exactly the Champions Universe" -- has many elements borrowed from Aberrant, Brave New World (the game, not the book), DC/Marvel/Crossgen, and other sources) I tried modifying & powering them up.

 

I ended up rewriting them almost from scratch, throwing out Witchraft & NightDuck in favor of Solitaire and Seeker (renamed KnightSeeker), and adding Jaguar instead of Kinetik (partially as a check on one of my players, partially because I wanted to keep Kinetik a solo NPC). They all worked out into the 650-700 point range I wanted (PC's at 450).

 

While I'm pretty sure it was a conscious decision for Champions Universe writeups as a whole, their defenses are simply too low for the 12-15 DC opposition they will commonly be facing for the way I want combat to work. If someone else wants everybody dropping on the first or second hit that's their business.

 

And yes, I noticed the personality capatibility problems too. I just decided to run with it myself; the PC's are supervillains so I want them to be a little unlikable as a group.

 

The writeup that sealed my decision to start from scratch was Sapphire, who lacks several non-combatant elements appropriate for her non-combat status as a celebrity. This includes Reputation as a Perk and business-related contacts (my rewrite ended up with Well Connected and the contact/favor list from heck). Her multipower is in my opinion poorly constructed; a couple of her slots should be variable instead of ultra.

Yeah, Sapphire just isn't built well.

[Agent X]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

You know' date=' the issue of wanting to see high-powered NPC hero writeups raises an interesting question: why do those of us who want to see them, want to see them? In a game, nobody wants a NPC to show up the PCs; they're supposed to be the stars of the show. So, what use are such characters? Benchmarks for the player-characters to be measured against? Ready-made high-end characters if players want to run in the "big leagues?" Or is it just for esthetics, because a supers universe [i']should[/i] have mighty heroes?

 

(I have my own opinions, but I don't want to color anyone's responses just yet.)

Benchmarks are good. What it means to be in the Big Leagues is good to know. Aesthetically, it's a good thing to have some sort of balance. It's also a matter of having peers. Knowing your character is the equal of SuperThor is cool.

[Agent X]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

Mechanon is now one of the weakest of the "master villains." His attacks have substantially improved over his 4E version, but his defenses haven't kept pace with that increase. I suspect that he was written this way so precisely to allow beginning-level hero teams to have a chance to beat him.

 

There are a few villain or villain teams, such as 5E Eurostar, who are clearly weaker than their earlier incarnations. OTOH returning veterans Menton, Firewing, Grond, Dark Seraph and Black Paladin are all measurably more powerful, in offense, defense and versatility. Dr. D is certainly the leading candidate for "most grossly overpowered" in the current CU, but Takofanes and Gravitar are not far behind.

 

I do have to say that "overpowered" is a relative term. Dr. Destroyer is far beyond the capacity of the current Champions or any contemporary heroes so far published to deal with, but I've heard from a number of players here who assert that their teams of experienced heroes could hand the Doc his head. Certainly the upcoming "Champions 3000" hero team would have a good chance of doing so. Maybe all we need is writeups for a few more CU "head-handers."

The 4E Dr. Destroyer was pretty nasty. No Range Mods on a 15d6 EB that he can hit you with from miles away...

[Fedifensor]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

Anyone who thinks Mechanon can't handle the Champions needs to reread the rules on spreading an attack (FRED page 251). Mechanon can fill three hexes with his EB and still do 15d6 - enough to stun any member of the Champions except Ironclad. He also has an AoE Flash attack that will blind everyone except Ironclad (noticing a theme, here?) for half a turn. Once Mechanon starts stunning and blinding foes, they're easy prey for his big guns - the Disintegrator Beam and Meson Bolt.

 

Mechanon's OCV is high enough to hit any member of the Champions easily without using his Overall Levels. While I concede he wouldn't start with the Overall Levels in DCV because of his Overconfidence, he'll switch to DCV once his foes take him below half STUN. When that happens, none of the Champions will hit on better than a 10-. In fact, Nighthawk and Sapphire only hit on 8 or less.

 

I was rather surprised that this version of Mechanon doesn't leverage his advantages - Smoke Projectors (Darkness with continuing charges) to take advantage of his numerous Enhanced Senses, or Tear Gas Projectors (continuous NND) which he's immune to because of Life Support. Even without such accessories, he's still deadly to the Champions as written.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

Anyone who thinks Mechanon can't handle the Champions needs to reread the rules on spreading an attack (FRED page 251). Mechanon can fill three hexes with his EB and still do 15d6 - enough to stun any member of the Champions except Ironclad. He also has an AoE Flash attack that will blind everyone except Ironclad (noticing a theme, here?) for half a turn. Once Mechanon starts stunning and blinding foes, they're easy prey for his big guns - the Disintegrator Beam and Meson Bolt.

 

Mechanon's OCV is high enough to hit any member of the Champions easily without using his Overall Levels. While I concede he wouldn't start with the Overall Levels in DCV because of his Overconfidence, he'll switch to DCV once his foes take him below half STUN. When that happens, none of the Champions will hit on better than a 10-. In fact, Nighthawk and Sapphire only hit on 8 or less.

 

I was rather surprised that this version of Mechanon doesn't leverage his advantages - Smoke Projectors (Darkness with continuing charges) to take advantage of his numerous Enhanced Senses, or Tear Gas Projectors (continuous NND) which he's immune to because of Life Support. Even without such accessories, he's still deadly to the Champions as written.

 

Those are for the next upgrade, to unleash on your overconfident players after they beat him once. *eg*

[Intrope]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

Actually, the Champions aren't that far from being able to take Mechanon. Here's the keys:

 

Ironclad actually has a rather decent OCV for Grabs (10); this reduces Mechanon's DCV to more reasonable levels if it hits.

 

Sapphire is the heavy hitter(!) because her NND attack will hurt Mechanon.

 

Defender and Nighthawk both have 12d6 attacks that can coordinate with Sapphire's NND; these three together can do enough to Stun Mechanon.

 

OTOH, Witchcraft may as well go get a pizza; none of her powers really effect Mechanon at all.

 

Combining these two will at least give them a chance. Unfortunately, Mechanon therefore has 3 main strategies:

Use his flash attack first, and then deal with Ironclad one on one (and remember that he can use a multipower attack of 18D6 + 4d6 STR drain on Ironclad after he's been grabbed).

 

Eliminate one of Sapphire, Defender or Nighthawk. All 3 are easy to eliminate; just line them up with something solid (like the ground) and 18d6 + Knockback will do fine--on average, 18d6 + 11d6 Knockback would put any of those 3 in -21 or worse taking them out of battle. Sapphire is the best choice, since the 3 boys can't Stun Mechanon even if they do coordinate their normal attacks.

 

Use 3-shot Rapid Fire Attacks to eliminate either a)Ironclad or all of Sapphire, Defender and Nighthawk. This is risky (with only an 11 OCV, he might miss the first attack, wasting all three shots).

 

I'm still of the opinion that Mechanon's likely to come out on top (being able to ignore 1 of the 5, and 1-shot 4 of them is a pretty serious advantage) but the Champions might be able to win. Still, 'As Powerful' for the Champions is more a joke than anything else.

[Grailknight]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

I ran this scenario with my players when Champions was first published and The Champions never survived beyond turn 2 of combat. 5th ed Mechanon can fly (couldn't in any previous version) thus relegating Ironclad and Knighthawk to much lesser roles, Witchcraft is ineffective and Sapphire can't hit him if he fights with his levels defensively. As Intrope has pointed out, the damage from 18d6 plus knockback will one-shot everyone except Ironclad. This isn't to say that Mechanon is too powerful because he isn't. He's the weakest of the 5th edition mastervillains with the possible exception of the Warlord. The Champions could take him if they had a few more levels and they have a slight chance in an indoor scenario as written but my money's on Mechanon.

[Fedifensor]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

One thing to add - Ironclad is significantly tougher than any of the other Champions. In fact, he seems to exceed the guidelines for a 'by the book' Champions campaign with 350-point characters. 12d6 main attack PLUS Find Weakness (effectively a 12d6 AP attack if he makes the roll), 5 SPD, 25/28 Defenses - a potent combo. He even has enough Leaping to tag most fliers. If he fights smart, he'll always be the last one standing of the group. His only weakness is a 7 DCV, and his 4 levels in HTH combat can compensate when fighting melee opponents.

 

Any hope the Champions have against Mechanon relies on Ironclad. In fact, the ideal strategy has Mechanon open up with an 18d6 EB + 4d6 STR Drain on the metal guy, while putting its Overall Levels in DCV. Average damage will stun Ironclad, knock him back 4" (which means Ironclad spends a half-phase to stand) and drain him 14 STR. That effectively puts Ironclad out of the fight until phase 5, since he won't be able to stand, move next to Mechanon, and pull off a grab in segment 3. By segment 5, Mechanon will have two more actions (on 2 and 4) to do many nasty things to Ironclad's teammates. With an 11 DCV, the chances of enough of the team hitting Mechanon to stun it are extremely low.

[Agent X]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

One thing to add - Ironclad is significantly tougher than any of the other Champions. In fact, he seems to exceed the guidelines for a 'by the book' Champions campaign with 350-point characters. 12d6 main attack PLUS Find Weakness (effectively a 12d6 AP attack if he makes the roll), 5 SPD, 25/28 Defenses - a potent combo. He even has enough Leaping to tag most fliers. If he fights smart, he'll always be the last one standing of the group. His only weakness is a 7 DCV, and his 4 levels in HTH combat can compensate when fighting melee opponents.

 

Any hope the Champions have against Mechanon relies on Ironclad. In fact, the ideal strategy has Mechanon open up with an 18d6 EB + 4d6 STR Drain on the metal guy, while putting its Overall Levels in DCV. Average damage will stun Ironclad, knock him back 4" (which means Ironclad spends a half-phase to stand) and drain him 14 STR. That effectively puts Ironclad out of the fight until phase 5, since he won't be able to stand, move next to Mechanon, and pull off a grab in segment 3. By segment 5, Mechanon will have two more actions (on 2 and 4) to do many nasty things to Ironclad's teammates. With an 11 DCV, the chances of enough of the team hitting Mechanon to stun it are extremely low.

It's a good thing that Mechanon can't read their character sheets to know exactly what to do.

[Grailknight]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

He doesn"t have to metagame. Just flying and using his overall levels for DCV will beat them.

[Southern Cross]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

True.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

Why *I* want to see published, higher powered NPC heroes. Not professing to speak for anyone but myself here.

 

1. Because not everyone is running a heroic super-powered campaign. Ultimately this is the main factor for me (60%).
   
2. A distant but noticeable second (20%) is the simple fact that it helps to establish the universe -- "a superhero universe should have powerful heroes". Without this kind of material it's just not a universe IMO.
   
3. Benchmarking is a factor as well (10%). Of course in my own case I end up adjusting the scores of just about every official writeup anyway, and I doubt I'm unusual there.
   
4. And finally (10%) is a matter related to the top -- sometimes you need the higher-leveled NPC heroes around to keep the players in line more than to take the spotlight from them.
   

[Fedifensor]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

It's a good thing that Mechanon can't read their character sheets to know exactly what to do.

 

Or make the 11- Reputation roll for Ironclad, to get a good measure of his publically-displayed powers.

[Mark Rand]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

In the Champions campaign I'm working on, the characters are stronger than the ones they were based on. The players will have the option of creating new characters or changing and renaming the rest of the iconics.

Guardian is Defender with better armor.

Lisa, Lady Arcane, is Witchcraft with more powers, a different background story, a screech owl as a familiar and a different costume. (Lisa's identity is known to the public.)

Donna is a Wendy clone, who doesn't want to be a heroine,

Jeannie has a different last name.

Denise gets a background story that covers her experiences as a theatre student and CIA black-bag jobs expert before becoming a DOSPA agent and team liaison.

Carol, a new character, is the team's nurse.

April, a new character, is the team's engineer. When Guardian can talk her into it, she either joins the team as Spirit Cat or backs Denise up. (Since the two women are good at being sneaky, they work well together.) I might rename Spirit Cat Nekokami, which is Spirit Cat in Japanese.

[Hermit]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

My own thoughts on the Champions 5th Ed have been stated else where. I've mentioned I think they all need their defenses bumped up at least 3 points, but I also think they aren't as bad as others say. I am slowly buffing them up as they 'earn xp' off panel.

 

Still, some thoughts on your thoughts... just my opinions mind.

 

Psychological Limitations:Ironclad is overconfident. Nighthawk is overconfident. Kinetik is overconfident. Sapphire is a showoff. Witchcraft is underconfident.

 

How the heck do they survive EVERY seriously challenging battle? It looks like half the team will walk right into the brunt of it and not have a clue when to withdraw. At least the 5 Official Members have the teamwork skill.

Don't forget Defender's own psych limits. "Fearlessly Heroic" can be sort of self destructive as well. My thoughts were on this were that the team does indeed bite off more than they can chew, and gets their butts stomped a lot. However, their value for life means they also probably at least get innocents to safety or buy them time to get out themselves. It also gives them tenacity... those rationalizations aside, I figure as time goes on, they may buy those off or at least down.

I already have Witchcraft free of underconfidence by now.

 

Reputations: Defender is known as a Do-Gooder. Ironclad has a rep as being destructive and dangerous, Nighthawk is known as a reckless vigilante.

 

The Champions are the most prominent team in Millennium City and seem to have quite a bit of support yet they've got a dangerous, destructive alien and a reckless masked vigilante comprising 1/3 of the membership.

 

Well, it does say that Nighthawk has the poorest rep in the team in the eyes of the public. It's possible that the average citizen is relieved that Nighthawk is on the team so the more respected members can keep him "in line" if need be.

 

Ironclad is destructive not due to his temperment, but due to his physiology and raw power. Most of the time this is a hinderance to how folks view him but he might end up being seen as the "Big Gun" of the Champions when it comes time to beat a city endangering bad guy.

 

Sometimes, I wonder if teams should buy modifying reputations for all the members to reflect the overall standing of the team in game.

Not a bad idea. It's an option worth exploring.

 

I'm still struggling to see how they can beat the Ultimates or hold off the Crowns of Krim. And PSI is located in Millennium City - Yuck!

Want one of my guessess on how? MARS units, UNTIL and PRIMUS agents. All three can be found in MC, and I don't see them sitting on their rear and waiting for the Champions to handle it all. We're told repeatedly not to underestimate VIPER agents etc, but we often neglect how effective the ones on the side of the law can be. The Champions by themselves might have trouble, the champions backed up by a dozen agents or more like that is a different story.

 

Millennium City obviously needs a PC Team to deal with these threats.

 

That's the other reason. Your PCs teams, and other NPC heroes are not likely to just twiddle their thumbs. Don't forget, other NPC heroes in the city include Cavalier, Binary (If those two can be called heroes), Dr. Silverback, Nightwind, and the MC-8. In my own games, the Champions and the Challengers (aren't we clever ) work together often, and have struck up some friendships.

Anyway, this chart is really easy to follow and covers the basics. I'm going to do this in my games from now on, instead of using the chart available in the Hero Resource Kit and I wanted to let everyone know a simple way to make their GMing a little bit easier - if they haven't already come up with something like this or better.

 

That's darn nice of you

[Agent X]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

My own thoughts on the Champions 5th Ed have been stated else where. I've mentioned I think they all need their defenses bumped up at least 3 points, but I also think they aren't as bad as others say. I am slowly buffing them up as they 'earn xp' off panel.

 

Still, some thoughts on your thoughts... just my opinions mind.

 

 

Don't forget Defender's own psych limits. "Fearlessly Heroic" can be sort of self destructive as well. My thoughts were on this were that the team does indeed bite off more than they can chew, and gets their butts stomped a lot. However, their value for life means they also probably at least get innocents to safety or buy them time to get out themselves. It also gives them tenacity... those rationalizations aside, I figure as time goes on, they may buy those off or at least down.

I already have Witchcraft free of underconfidence by now.

 

 

 

Well, it does say that Nighthawk has the poorest rep in the team in the eyes of the public. It's possible that the average citizen is relieved that Nighthawk is on the team so the more respected members can keep him "in line" if need be.

 

Ironclad is destructive not due to his temperment, but due to his physiology and raw power. Most of the time this is a hinderance to how folks view him but he might end up being seen as the "Big Gun" of the Champions when it comes time to beat a city endangering bad guy.

 

 

Not a bad idea. It's an option worth exploring.

 

 

Want one of my guessess on how? MARS units, UNTIL and PRIMUS agents. All three can be found in MC, and I don't see them sitting on their rear and waiting for the Champions to handle it all. We're told repeatedly not to underestimate VIPER agents etc, but we often neglect how effective the ones on the side of the law can be. The Champions by themselves might have trouble, the champions backed up by a dozen agents or more like that is a different story.

 

 

 

That's the other reason. Your PCs teams, and other NPC heroes are not likely to just twiddle their thumbs. Don't forget, other NPC heroes in the city include Cavalier, Binary (If those two can be called heroes), Dr. Silverback, Nightwind, and the MC-8. In my own games, the Champions and the Challengers (aren't we clever ) work together often, and have struck up some friendships.

 

 

That's darn nice of you

Don't forget Taurus and Eagle Eye and Sai and the Ravenswood Academy and Hydro! (Yeah, I've been working on the campaign lately.)

 

I don't like the idea of supers needing to be dependent on agents but that's purely a personal aesthetic.

 

And thanks for the kind words, I might get around to designing a generic combat "chart" to attach to a post.

[Hermit]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

Don't forget Taurus and Eagle Eye and Sai and the Ravenswood Academy and Hydro! (Yeah, I've been working on the campaign lately.)

 

I don't like the idea of supers needing to be dependent on agents but that's purely a personal aesthetic.

 

And thanks for the kind words, I might get around to designing a generic combat "chart" to attach to a post.

 

Eagle Eye has gotten an appearance as a fugitive in one of my campaigns, but then I find out he's helping UNTIL agents (In the USPDB if I recall) so I'm wondering if he's suddenly free of the stigma haunting him.

 

As for the agents bit, yeah, I wouldn't want it as the norm for my PCs, but for NPC teams I don't mind it nearly as much. After all, in the comics, it wasn't unheard of for SHIELD agents to join in a fray once in a while

 

Oh, and welcome.

[zornwil]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

AgentX, in response to what kicked off the thread, this is one of the bugaboos I have about standard 150+ disad standards in that PCs are inevitably cripples if you really took seriously everything on the sheet. Or, everything on the sheet is devalued and this talk about what frequently and strong tendencies and the like is hogwash as those are necessarily diluted to play session-to-session. I personally never run games with that many disad points and in fact prefer to run with 75 or less, lest he result be a stack of disads including "overconfidence" which are - IMHO - barely played.

[Evil Toki]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

So what would you use as a starting character amount Zornwill, I am still muddling my way through and building my setting, Pantheon and just want to know what veterans have done

[Acroyear]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

Some of these interpretations of "Overconfidence" sounds more like "Berserk."

 

Being overconfident doesn't mean you wade into battle, attempting to shrug off blows and ignoring your DCV. Perhaps you jump into battle, dodge like crazy, and smirk the whole time because "you can only hit me if I let you." It could also mean you think you apply superior tactics and if that means dodging, playing tricks, ducking, and hiding then that's it... but it doesn't mean I consider you better, it just means I'm showing how -I- am superior. I can do all this and all this is what is going to bring me victory. Being hit means you're surprised that this lightweight managed to lay a glove on you, so let's show him what I can really do... levels into DCV, bud.

 

For example, many athletes can be considered to be "overconfident" but they will still dodge tackles and go for the goal line because "I'm just that good." I got tackled? Psh, you just got lucky.

 

In attacking terms, it might mean that I spread my attack... because I can hit you if I put effort into it, I can hit you at will just like this... Or maybe I don't hit you all that hard to start with, just to prove that I can. And surely you'll feel the sting of my photon blast, even at a fraction of its true power. What? Incredible, he shrugged it off... well, let me show you what I can really do.

 

This isn't an all inclusive example, of course, just showing that overconfidence isn't a "wade into the hellstorm and ignoring all sense." It's more of "I can handle this hellstorm and won't run off so someone else can do it." How it's handled, though, is based on the character and his abilities.

 

A villainous example of overconfidence might be a "you can't catch me" type. I'll send clues to the cops, I want them to show up at my lair at some point. Not so I can stare down their guns and stuff, but to show them I am so good, I'll still escape. See how that's overconfidence that isn't the kind that means "I'll stand here and duke it out"? I'll outwit you. I'm so good at outwitting, I'm sending you hints and handicapping myself. Oh, you're going to show up so sure of yourselves, aren't you? And wallah... I escaped anyway, losers. Now you have to wait for my next hint, you clueless slackers.

 

YMMV

[Evil Toki]

Re: Upon Further Review: The Champions

 

I like that example Acroyear very cool