Dust Raven Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 If you haven't seen the movie Equilibrium. Watch it. Now. I'll wait. Done? Okay, remember when he's blasting away in the hallway, then reloads his gun from little mechanisms in his sleeves? How do you build those? What? You didn't watch it? You just read ahead? Shame on you. Well, basically what he have is something that will replace your clip for you so you don't have to spend a full phase doing it yourself. Technically, this could just be written up by increasing the total charges and not having clips, but I want to keep only so many rounds in the weapon at a time (in case it's taken away or I lend it to someone, or my reloader is broken, or I have more clips on my belt that I have to change normally anyway). Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... How about an End Reserve that isn't actually connected to the gun itself? I think I saw someone use that idea for an Yun-Fatesque HK Gunfu fighter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Divago Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... If you haven't seen the movie Equilibrium. Watch it. Now. I'll wait. Well i don't know this film... has been aired in italy? Well' date=' basically what he have is something that will replace your clip for you so you don't have to spend a full phase doing it yourself. Technically, this could just be written up by increasing the total charges and not having clips, but I want to keep only so many rounds in the weapon at a time (in case it's taken away or I lend it to someone, or my reloader is broken, or I have more clips on my belt that I have to change normally anyway).[/quote']The only idea i've is something that give you extra spd only to change clip, or something that give you some PSL... or, maybe is too complicated, but is another idea: buy pistol with X charge and now buy +X charge with a "only if wearing autoreloader" (or well... a second focus, i mean ) better explaination: buy pistol as a 1d6 HK, with OIF, 8 charge, real weapon, and/or other disadvantages. Py it X same pistol, with 16 charge, will cost you Y buy "reload" as a "X-Y power cost" with an additional OIF (Reloader) i hope you understood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kolava Posted July 3, 2004 Report Share Posted July 3, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... I don't have Fred with me at the moment, but isn't there a skill call "rapid reload", or text in "quick draw" which suggests that it can be used for that? If so, why not buy the gun with clips as normal, then get the skill OIF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... Fast Draw alllows you to change a single clip as a 1/2 phase action on a successful roll, thus you could only change one clip at a time with it if you were using two guns. Unless.. (oh this gets wonky but here goes) ... You buy a big gun and apply Reduced Penetration so it becomes 1/2Big Gun + 1/2Big Gun with the special effect of being two guns, then Fast Draw allows you to replace the "one clip" in a 1/2 phase and reloaed "both" weapons. Of course, that way you're stuck using both weapons at once all the time, which means you need to put it in a Multipower with the "big" version that's two guns and the normal version that's one gun both using the same clips..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... I think Dr. Divago has the right idea. Buy the gun/s however you want, then buy extra charges with a Focus Limitation for the Auto-Loader itself. What is the cost? The difference, I assume, between these things: A gun with fewer charges, and a gun with more charges, with a Limitation applied to the cost of the extra charges. Cost Power END 30 Basic Gun: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, 16 Charges (+0) [16] 45 Basic Gun With More Charges: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, 64 Charges (+1/2) [64] 12 Custom Power (15 Active Points); IIF (-1/4) 0 So, in this case the cost of the extra charges is 12 Character Points. This may not be "legal", it just makes some sense to me. Especially since you are just adding to the available charges, which means you have removed the need for "Changing clips". KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarekk Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... Why not buy a second gun for +5 pts, and define it as a reload for the first gun? (%) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesuji Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... well, if the system handled "my rounds are divided into smaller clips" as a limitation, it would be easy... buy back the points saved from the clips limitation with a focus lim itself. Unfortunately, charges are rife with "compound" modifiers, where a single modifier provides both a positive element and a negative element. in this case, double (or quadruple) charges and clips combined into a single +1/4. here is what i would do... given it looks like this will be only different from "one big clip" when BOTH "he is without his autoloader" AND "he needs to reload" are true. I would say he buys it as normal charges with no clips. If he has 8 clips at 8 charges each thats 64 charges. Buy it as +1/2. The fact that when he hands the guns to other people (or other people steal the gun) it has only 8 charges is FX. Unless he expects to have his autoloaders broken/stolen a lot, its more in the real of "occasional flavor" than it is something worth points. if the design was an OAF fragile autoloader, frequently damaged in combat AND a gun with small magazines like say 4 or so (so that in a typical combat reloading will be necessary) then the combination of the two MIGHT raise to the level of "save 1/4" but only maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted July 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... Thanks for the ideas guys. I think I might have another, less clunky and more rules legal, but I'm not sure if it would work (meaning "accurately simulate"). Basically, I buy 0 END for the guns instead of charges (to represent that he never runs out of ammo/always has enough reloads). This takes care of reloading time. Can I put the 0 END part of the Power into a seperate focus (OIF perhaps)? I'm not sure how to do this since the gun's already an OAF. The only problem I can see with this (other than figuring out the foci) is that the guns aren't Personal Foci, so if one is taken, it should have some rounds left in it. Could I hand wave this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... Personally I'd treat the method as a special effect...my old gun toting vigilante character carrys a machine gun with zero End defined as "I carry lots of ammo" the reloading is "off camera" I call such the "john wayne gun" it somehow never has an ammo problem, the why is secondary...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... I like the fast draw idea on a focus, if you want a "rule" for it. Otherwise I'd call it a lot of charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfly Posted July 6, 2004 Report Share Posted July 6, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... don't forget the cool reloading mechanism Lara Croft (Jolie) wore in the 1st Tomb Raider, I liked that one even better than the Equilibrium reloader. On the other hand, those weeble-wobble clips (slid on the floor, in Equilibruim) were a really cool idea/scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted July 10, 2004 Report Share Posted July 10, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... Basically' date=' I buy 0 END for the guns instead of charges (to represent that he never runs out of ammo/always has enough reloads). This takes care of reloading time. Can I put the 0 END part of the Power into a seperate focus (OIF perhaps)? I'm not sure how to do this since the gun's already an OAF.[/quote'] Just buy the Zero END as a Naked Advantage, and apply the OIF "Autoreloader" to it. The only problem I can see with this (other than figuring out the foci) is that the guns aren't Personal Foci' date=' so if one is taken, it should have some rounds left in it. Could I hand wave this?[/quote'] Buy the Gun with a single "clip" of, say 8 charges. As long as you have the functional Autoreloader, these charges don't get used -- the Zero END "covers" for them. When the Gun gets stolen, it has 8 bullets in it. When you get it back (even empty), the Autoreloader kicks in again letting you fire at will. If the Autoreloader is removed or damaged, the Gun only has it's 8 bullets. Say that part of the Autoreloader's F/X is that the bullets in it would take too long to extract during a combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... How about a minimal AI follower with extra limbs (the reloading "arms") and a single program "reload gun when I hold them like this"? You could then still buy your clips properly AND get the benefit of the weapons being reloaded when you want them to without using any of your own actions (but it still takes time, as it appropriately should). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted July 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... How about a minimal AI follower with extra limbs (the reloading "arms") and a single program "reload gun when I hold them like this"? You could then still buy your clips properly AND get the benefit of the weapons being reloaded when you want them to without using any of your own actions (but it still takes time, as it appropriately should). I've never thought of using a Follower for it before. Mmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... Just buy the Zero END as a Naked Advantage, and apply the OIF "Autoreloader" to it. Buy the Gun with a single "clip" of, say 8 charges. As long as you have the functional Autoreloader, these charges don't get used -- the Zero END "covers" for them. When the Gun gets stolen, it has 8 bullets in it. When you get it back (even empty), the Autoreloader kicks in again letting you fire at will. If the Autoreloader is removed or damaged, the Gun only has it's 8 bullets. Say that part of the Autoreloader's F/X is that the bullets in it would take too long to extract during a combat. I think this is the best answer so far. While I like Acroyear's suggestion, I think I personally would only go that way if I wanted to, for some plot reason, have some kind of little robot "helper" that followed me around and did that kind of stuff. I know that an AI is just a game construct, but I find it a little "complicated" if all you want is to not run out of bullets as long as the autoloader is around. For that, SteveZilla's suggestion works great and is fairly simple. Just my opinion, KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfly Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... How about a minimal AI follower with extra limbs (the reloading "arms") and a single program "reload gun when I hold them like this"? You could then still buy your clips properly AND get the benefit of the weapons being reloaded when you want them to without using any of your own actions (but it still takes time, as it appropriately should). Nice Idea! I like how you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... Here's my amazon review of Equilibrium (I gave it 4 out of 5 stars): Suprisingly good, April 27, 2004 Reviewer: "killershrike" (San Diego, Ca United States) - See all my reviews I saw this movie recently at a friends place, somewhat reluctantly. "Oh boy, another Matrix clone...yawn." But a few minutes in Im like "Hey, this is like Farenheit, 1984, and BNW all shoved together!", and it had my interest. The plot has some thin areas, no question, but as a paranoid future dystopia cautionary tale type of story its pretty good. Taking a page from Brave New World everyone is on a mood altering drug; however whereas BNW's soma was a pep-pill, the Equilibrium drug is a emotion-suppressor, rendering people into calm, cool, and collected living mannikins. Taking a page from 1984 the Tetragrammaton is a Big Brother-esque government, though they seem to rely more on human surveilance than on electronic spying, which suppresses art, culture, and entertainment as they engender to many emotional upwellings. There are also constant 1984-esque propoganda broadcasts, and the "sense offense" concept of the movie is pretty much the same thing as the "thought crime" of 1984. The Fahrenheit 451 similarities mostly show up in the fact that art and various bric a brac are burned when found, and in the parrallels between the main characters; also, one could find some similarities in the puppy the main character becomes attached to and the little girl next door in '451. Of course, having been made post-1998 the movie also has some martial arts. Even Yoda is a ninja these days, afterall. In this case however rather than more ho-hum Wire Fu we are presented with the concept of the Gun Kata, which sounds cheesy, but is actually somewhat compelling. At the very least its original, and that's got to count for something? Like any good martial arts Gun Kata makes it practitioner invincible, or at least unbeatable by anyone else in the film. The focus of Gun Kata is a scientific analysis of the most probable angles of fire in a gunfight, enabling a practitioner to simultaneously avoid being shot and deliver highly accurate fire even in total darkness and at both close and medium range. It also has a melee component consisting of pistol whipping with extreme prejuidice anyone that gets too close. Unlike the wire-enabled gyrations of the Matrix, the Gun Kata is very stationary; the practitioner basically plants their feet and becomes the focal point of a fire fight. Since the "art" is supposed to be trajectory based this even makes a certain amount of sense. Cinematically this results in frenetic action packed sequences of very tightly shot violence that is actually really striking and distinctive. There is also some kendo/japanese katana fighting in the movie which is interesting, but much less interesting than the Gun Kata scenes IMO. There is one scene towards the end that is obviously Matrix inspired, and the black outfit worn by the "senior" Grammaton Clerics (basically the ultra-chic "too sexy for my goth look" equivalent of Thought Police in the movies setting, or to put it another way for the comic book crowd like the Judges from Judge Dredd) is very Neo-esque, but otherwise this movie owes more to Bradbury, Orwell, and Huxley both thematically and stylistically than the Wachowski brothers or Hong Kong Wuxia. Sean Bean is in the movie for about 5 minutes, as is the guy that played Robert the Bruce from Brave Heart, and Taye Diggs is another Grammaton Cleric who has maybe 10 minutes of screen time, but the movie revolves around Christian Bale. This guy is the king of minimalist expressionism. The merest fluctuation of his facial expression can communicate volumes. He was perfectly cast in this role, and I'm really looking forward to seeing him as Bruce Wayne in the next go around of the Batman franchise. Bale plays a top-mark senior Grammaton Cleric who is basically the bizomb. The only mar on his record is that he failed to detect his wifes "sense crime" and turn her in for execution himself a few years previously. After going off his emotion-suppresent drug Bale basically becomes the Guy Montag/Winston Smith/Bernard Marx parrallel of this particular dystopian tale, proceeds to get involved in the de riguer anti-establishment underground, and turns his abilities against the oppressor Big Brother state. Fight the Power! You know the drill, standard dystopian fare from there on out, but with frenetic fight scenes. As an aside, I bet that if 1984 was made into a big screen Hollywood movie next year Winston Smith would be a master of some kind of martial art and would kick some serious Party behind in the last 15 minutes of the movie. Nothing Hollywood loves more than a proven formula! But I digress.... So in summary, if you are a fan of dystopian fiction/literature and havent seen a decent action flick in a while, this movie is a way to satisfy both tastes all in one easy to swallow go. Keep your expectations reasonable and you'll have a good show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... As far as the quick loader device, several good approaches have been covered. Personally, I think off the top of my head that the reloaders probably only hold a clip each, and I would just buy them as levels with Fast Draw IIF with 1 REC Charge each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfly Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... Killer Shrike, Just a historical note. Equilibrium actually came out before Reloaded had even started filming. It's been said by many, including on the Equilibrium commentary, that they probably were borrowing/homaging the Grammaton outfit for Neo. It also served the dual purpose of [visually] illustrating Neo's improved command/discipline over his (super)powers. If you haven't heard the Equilibrium commentary, check it out. It's highly illuminating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted July 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... Now that you mention it, didn't Neo seem to fight from a single grounded possition in his first fight in Reloaded? Odd similarities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... Thanks for the ideas guys. I think I might have another, less clunky and more rules legal, but I'm not sure if it would work (meaning "accurately simulate"). Basically, I buy 0 END for the guns instead of charges (to represent that he never runs out of ammo/always has enough reloads). This takes care of reloading time. Can I put the 0 END part of the Power into a seperate focus (OIF perhaps)? I'm not sure how to do this since the gun's already an OAF. The only problem I can see with this (other than figuring out the foci) is that the guns aren't Personal Foci, so if one is taken, it should have some rounds left in it. Could I hand wave this? I didn't see it, but I was always under the impression, which your comment here implies, that the typical guy with a gun that never runs out has a 0 END power through that gun, pure and simple. However, if you want the power supply to be targetted separately, I'd just increase the focus limitation, personally, probably by 1/4 or at best 1/2, given I just don't think it would come into play much. Probably too fudgy for some people's tastes, but I just don't see this warranting a lot of attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfly Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 Re: Really cool automatic reloads... I agree w/ Zorn on this one. I'd simply buy the 0 END straight; Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2). I've seen it ('n used it) on sword builds, so I'd bet it could apply to a gun. But I'm not positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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