marvel conversions

[Wolf]

Hey all, I was just looking, and found an old post filled with mostly out of order links, for any resourses for converting marvel characters to Champions...

I have thought about trying to use Heroclix to do it, or even the VS. series of cards that are out now... but that's rather absurd, being that those are kindof out there for converting.... if anyone has any thoughts on how to do it, I know Killer Shrike is rather good a pulling a converson out of the "unconvertable".

Wolf

[Vanguard00]

Re: marvel conversions

 

John Desmarais has a conversion from Marvel to 4th Edition on his site:

 

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/rules/Marvel%20to%20Hero.html

 

It wouldn't be all that difficult to do the converstion to 4th edition, then upgrade it to 5th.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: marvel conversions

 

Are you talking about converting stats directly from another published source, like the Marvel Universe RPGs? Or just having stats for the Marvel characters?

 

If the former, I could point you to pretty detailed conversion notes here on the website for the old Marvel Saga RPG (not the current game). If the latter, this website has the largest collection of HERO stats for comic characters available. Note that some of the stats are for 4E HERO, but the differences are fairly small.

 

If what you'd like is something different, please feel free to post a followup.

[Sketchpad]

Re: marvel conversions

 

Hey all, I was just looking, and found an old post filled with mostly out of order links, for any resourses for converting marvel characters to Champions...

I have thought about trying to use Heroclix to do it, or even the VS. series of cards that are out now... but that's rather absurd, being that those are kindof out there for converting.... if anyone has any thoughts on how to do it, I know Killer Shrike is rather good a pulling a converson out of the "unconvertable".

Wolf

There's also a TON of actual conversions on the web ... I'd take a look at the Hero links or do a google search for them

[Killer Shrike]

Re: marvel conversions

 

IIRC there was a conversion published in an Adventurers Club magazine back in the day. Maybe one of the real old timers around here will recall it.

 

 

Personally, when converting from Marvel, I just eyeball it rather than try to do it via a fixed conversion.

 

MSH was extremely arbitrary, and some of the powers were really far reaching (my personal favorite gem would be "Catalytic Control", which sounds useless but is really crazy powerful). Also, the ranking of some of the esoteric powers didnt really have much affect on the powers effect, it just increased the percentage of success.

 

So looking at say Captain America's writeup for MSH, I would sit down and try to translate the Marvel write up plus my own impressions of the character into HERO System terms rather than worrying about what moves constitute Martial Arts A or B.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: marvel conversions

 

Are you talking about converting stats directly from another published source, like the Marvel Universe RPGs? Or just having stats for the Marvel characters?

 

If the former, I could point you to pretty detailed conversion notes here on the website for the old Marvel Saga RPG (not the current game). If the latter, this website has the largest collection of HERO stats for comic characters available. Note that some of the stats are for 4E HERO, but the differences are fairly small.

 

If what you'd like is something different, please feel free to post a followup.

 

My only gripe about that site is that most of the characters are done in 4th edition....and many are ridiculously overpowered...especially by 5th edition standards. For example, one writeup of Nightcrawler has him at DEX 44. Since almost all accounts by Marvel say he is agile but not at a superhuman level, that's WAY too high. I gave him a 23 DEX(my upper limit for regular folks) and gave him combat reflexes and DCV levels to give him the same comic book feel. Another example was a Thor with a 98 CON. Since the Hero conversion of the Hulk only has a 40 CON and Grond has a 50, I think a 98 is way too excessive. A large portion of the characters are done this way....too overpowered and lacking skills and perks. As an experiment, I tried to buils Nightcrawler myself. My version came in at about 477 points, which I think is about right. The site is excellent as a starting point, but I wouldn't use most of the characters as written.

 

Rob

[JmOz]

Re: marvel conversions

 

Just for arguments sake: I would say Nightcrawler would have a dex aproching 30 (The standard human limit, and the one I go with), while Spidey would be around 35-40

[JJR]

Re: marvel conversions

 

Just for arguments sake: I would say Nightcrawler would have a dex aproching 30 (The standard human limit' date=' and the one I go with), while Spidey would be around 35-40[/quote']

In the old MSH game both Spidey and Nightcrawler have amazing agility. That seems justified if you want the beginning of X-Men 2 and see him waste everyone, and having all those trained agents missing him even when he is just running at them. I'd go with 33 dexterity myself, and Spidey at 35.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: marvel conversions

 

In the old MSH game both Spidey and Nightcrawler have amazing agility. That seems justified if you want the beginning of X-Men 2 and see him waste everyone' date=' and having all those trained agents missing him even when he is just running at them. I'd go with 33 dexterity myself, and Spidey at 35.[/quote']

 

I suppose it's all a matter of taste. With a 23 DEX, combat reflexes, and levels(both DCV and regular), Nightcrawler is till going to wipe out the mooks as easily as he did in the movie. I'm just trying to use 5th edition conventions for my part. Almost no published characters in 5th have DEX above 30, and most are below 25. Kinetik has a 26....and he's a speedster. Given that, most of the X-men would have DEX between 15-25. Their training makes up the difference. Nightcrawler is exceptionally skilled(levels), so that's how I built him. I use the rule of 23 for primary stats. Stats above 23 are superhuman to me. So...for me.....as a character which Marvel has stated many times is normal(even for agility) except for his teleportation powers and appearance....I don't think my interpretation of Nightcrawler is unreasonable. If stats in your campaign are higher...than of course conversions need to reflect that.

 

Rob

[Killer Shrike]

Re: marvel conversions

 

For example, one writeup of Nightcrawler has him at DEX 44. Since almost all accounts by Marvel say he is agile but not at a superhuman level, that's WAY too high.

 

Rob

Um...actually Nightcrawler is generally presented as being almost as agile as Spiderman -- in the same class at least.

 

Ill agree that 44 is too high for most campaigns, but is not impossible to consider in a stat-inflated campaign.

 

The important thing is that he is more agile than most characters, and not quite as agile as Spiderman regardless of what final numbers you settle on.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: marvel conversions

 

Um...actually Nightcrawler is generally presented as being almost as agile as Spiderman -- in the same class at least.

 

Ill agree that 44 is too high for most campaigns, but is not impossible to consider in a stat-inflated campaign.

 

The important thing is that he is more agile than most characters, and not quite as agile as Spiderman regardless of what final numbers you settle on.

 

 

Well, the current Marvel directory suggests otherwise...and certain accounts(Secret Wars for example) also suggest Spiderman's obvious superiority. I agree with you that Nightcrawler is generally more agile and faster than other characters....I just think it can be done in other ways beyond giving him raw DEX, which just adds to characteristic inflation in my opinion.

 

Rob

[lemming]

Re: marvel conversions

 

Another example was a Thor with a 98 CON. Since the Hero conversion of the Hulk only has a 40 CON and Grond has a 50' date=' I think a 98 is way too excessive. A large portion of the characters are done this way....too overpowered and lacking skills and perks. As an experiment, I tried to buils Nightcrawler myself. My version came in at about 477 points, which I think is about right. The site is excellent as a starting point, but I wouldn't use most of the characters as written.[/quote']

You have to remember that on the site, you've got different people doing the conversions. Just as an offhand guess, I bet that Sam Bell did the 98 Con one. (after a quick check, yep).

Sam did a pretty careful job of balancing characters against each other and wrote up a page on how & whys.

 

Doing a massive retooling of Sam's stuff to 5th is a project I might wind up doing, but it's on the back burner after getting some of his more campaign specifc stuff done.

 

As another note: Sam didn't use any of those writeups in his games, though he did help out on an entertaining Marvel vs. DC game way back when where some of the chars were used.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: marvel conversions

 

You have to remember that on the site, you've got different people doing the conversions. Just as an offhand guess, I bet that Sam Bell did the 98 Con one. (after a quick check, yep).

Sam did a pretty careful job of balancing characters against each other and wrote up a page on how & whys.

 

Doing a massive retooling of Sam's stuff to 5th is a project I might wind up doing, but it's on the back burner after getting some of his more campaign specifc stuff done.

 

As another note: Sam didn't use any of those writeups in his games, though he did help out on an entertaining Marvel vs. DC game way back when where some of the chars were used.

 

Fair enough. not rying to be mean or anything. I guess just saying that as usual...more than one way to do things in Hero.

 

Rob

[lemming]

Re: marvel conversions

 

Fair enough. not rying to be mean or anything. I guess just saying that as usual...more than one way to do things in Hero.

Oh yeah. Sam would say the same. As long as you don't say that Galactus shouldn't have more than a 15d6 EB. Old joke. not sure if anyone will remember the "Spare my planet!"

[Enforcer84]

Re: marvel conversions

 

But the old conversions converted the TSR Marvel game to Champions - and in the old TSR game Nightcrawler and Spiderman had the same agility.

 

Sam was the bomb! I miss talking to him about converting the Thunderbolts and others.

[lemming]

Re: marvel conversions

 

But the old conversions converted the TSR Marvel game to Champions - and in the old TSR game Nightcrawler and Spiderman had the same agility.

 

Sam was the bomb! I miss talking to him about converting the Thunderbolts and others.

I miss him too. 4.5 years later.

 

Most of Sam's conversions were done based on his 40+ boxes of comics though.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: marvel conversions

 

Well, the current Marvel directory suggests otherwise...and certain accounts(Secret Wars for example) also suggest Spiderman's obvious superiority. I agree with you that Nightcrawler is generally more agile and faster than other characters....I just think it can be done in other ways beyond giving him raw DEX, which just adds to characteristic inflation in my opinion.

 

Rob

I think Nightcrawler was less capable after getting beat up by the marauders in the early 200's of Uncanny X-Men. Not for sure though; its been awhile.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: marvel conversions

 

I think Nightcrawler was less capable after getting beat up by the marauders in the early 200's of Uncanny X-Men. Not for sure though; its been awhile.

 

That may be true. For my part, I gave Nightcrawler a 23 DEX, +5 combat reflexes, +3 HtH levels, + 1 DCV level with another +3 DCV levels of Blink Teleport(uses END)...and a 7 SPD. Regardless of actual DEX, this Nightcrawler would be formidable.

 

Rob

[Enforcer84]

Re: marvel conversions

 

I miss him too. 4.5 years later.

 

Most of Sam's conversions were done based on his 40+ boxes of comics though.

The first thing I always think about when I think Sam is how his "Silver Age" superman writup made me feel good about my "point creep"

[Wolf]

Re: marvel conversions

 

Thank you all for the suggestions, It looks like I'll have to (as THE MAN SAID) do it my way. But that deffinately goes in well to help me get a feel for some of the characters I don't know... Thanks all...

I was still wondering if anyone out there has tried to tackle, or would think about tackleing a conversion of the HEROCLIX... I was thinking more and more.... and man... that would be a feat.. not to mention I don't really agree on most things they have for ppl... However between some of the MSH, Saga, and Heroclix stuff... not to mention all this cool stuff that's been converted, with a dash of What OL' Wolf thinks things should be... I think I'll manage a workable heroic supers game in oh, 3 month's work permiting.

If anyone has anything out there that has just generic "other systems" stat's out there, I'd be glad to check it... I'm just looking for Herofodder, and NPC's, along with examples to give ppl.

-Wolf

[Armitage]

Re: marvel conversions

 

IIRC there was a conversion published in an Adventurers Club magazine back in the day. Maybe one of the real old timers around here will recall it.

 

Adventurer's Club #5. George MacDonald's Champions Plus column.

And I'm not old, I'm only 25. And I have been for years.

 

It was for 1st Edition Marvel, so only Shift X and Class 1000, no Y, Z, 3000, or 5000. Third Edition Champions, so point costs and modifiers have changed significantly.

Below in order Sh0/Fb/Pr/Ty/Gd/Ex/Rm/In/Am/Mn/Un/X/1000. Single numbers are the top of the range, to save space.

 

Strength/Strength:

0/1-4/5-9/14/24/34/44/59/74/89/109/129/130+

 

Dexterity/Agility:

0-3/4-6/7-9/13/18/23/27/30/33//36/39/42/43+

 

Constitution/Endurance:

0-2/3-4/5-8/13/18/23/28/33/38/43/48/53/54+

 

Body/Endurance:

6-7/8-9/10/11/12/13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20+

 

Intelligence/Reason:

0-2/3-4/5-9/14/19/24/29/34/39/44/49/54/55+

 

Ego/Psyche:

0-3/4-6/7-9/12/15/18/22/26/30/35/40/45/46+

 

Presence & Comeliness estimated.

 

Extra PD & ED/Armor or Defense:

0/1-2/3-4/5-7/11/16/22/29/37/44/54/64/65+

 

Extra Speed/Agility:

0/0/0/0/1/1/1/2/2/2/3/3/3

 

Recovery, Endurance, and Stun calculated normally.

 

2 5 point skill levels per Fighting rank greater than Agility.

2 levels with a specific attack per +1 CS bonus

1 3 point PER levels per rank of Intuition greater than Reason.

Double calculated PD and ED if no special defenses.

Martial Arts give +5 PD & ED.

Characters with Body Armor buy extra defenses as Armor.

Characters with Dense Flesh, etc. buy extra PD & ED.

Excellent or lower Dense Flesh is bought half resistant.

Remarkable or better Dense flesh is fully resistant.

5 Ego Defense per Psyche rank above Excellent.

Acrobatics skill if Agility is Remarkable or better.

Missile Deflection (Dodging) if Agility is Amazing or better.

Computer Programming skill if Reason is Excellent or better.

Danger Sense if Intuition is Amazing or better.

Martial Arts with the Martial Arts Talents. (This was when there was only the Martial Arts skill in Champions and only one Martial Arts Talent in Marvel).

Half END on any power or STR costing 5+ END if Endurance is Excellent.

1/4 END on any power or STR costing 5+ END if Endurance is Remarkable or better.

20 points of Life Support if Endurance is Monstrous.

25 points of Life Support if Endurance is Unearthly or better.

 

Offensive Powers/Active Points:

0/1-4/5-9/10-14/24/34/44/59/74/89/109/129/130+

 

Non-Combat Powers/Active Points:

0-4/5-9/10-14/19/24/29/34/39/44/49/54/59/60+

 

Movement:

0"-1"/2"-3"/4"-5"/9"/13"/17"/21?/25"/29"/33"/37"/41"/42"+

[Lord Liaden]

If anyone has anything out there that has just generic "other systems" stat's out there, I'd be glad to check it... I'm just looking for Herofodder, and NPC's, along with examples to give ppl.

-Wolf

 

I'm not sure if by that you mean to include writeups for characters that aren't part of an established comic-book universe, but if that's the case there are a ton of those out on the Internet from people's own campaigns, fully 5th Edition-compatible. Just to cull some notable examples:

 

The Global Guardians PBeM campaign universe. You may have to follow a few links by clicking on character illustrations to get to the character sheets, but there's a lot of 'em.

 

The Wild Hunt, a more mystical/fantasy style supers campaign. Some very powerful heroes written up here.

 

Titans of Tomorrow, another fine PBeM campaign. Note that the character writeups don't include the costs, but that's usually not a concern for NPCs.

 

Neo-Dawn Champions. Note that only the Avant-Guard hero team has full character sheets.

[Agent X]

Re: marvel conversions

 

I'd put Nightcrawler's base dexterity at superhuman. I'd place SpiderMan's base dexterity at superhuman too and a little higher than Nightcrawler's. The Champions Universe Standard is 31+ is superhuman.

 

This Stat Inflation thing always intrigues me because it's an accusation based on an assumed common standard that doesn't exist.

 

The note that none of the characters published have a 31 dexterity indicates to me, to be consistent with the published standards, that they haven't introduced a character they wanted to have a superhuman dexterity.

[John Desmarais]

Re: marvel conversions

 

My only gripe about that site is that most of the characters are done in 4th edition....and many are ridiculously overpowered...especially by 5th edition standards. For example, one writeup of Nightcrawler has him at DEX 44. Since almost all accounts by Marvel say he is agile but not at a superhuman level, that's WAY too high. I gave him a 23 DEX(my upper limit for regular folks) and gave him combat reflexes and DCV levels to give him the same comic book feel. Another example was a Thor with a 98 CON. Since the Hero conversion of the Hulk only has a 40 CON and Grond has a 50, I think a 98 is way too excessive. A large portion of the characters are done this way....too overpowered and lacking skills and perks. As an experiment, I tried to buils Nightcrawler myself. My version came in at about 477 points, which I think is about right. The site is excellent as a starting point, but I wouldn't use most of the characters as written.

 

Rob

 

All of the write-ups on this site are personal interpretations. You really can not expect to be able to compare a write up of Thor done by one person (Sam Bell) with a write-up of the Hulk done by another (Chad Riley) and draw any type of linear consistency. If you compare Sam Bells' Thor with his other write-ups, you'll find a reasonable level of consistency among them. The same is true for the write-ups done by Chad Riley. But comparing Sam's Thor to Chad's Hulk is going to be a bit like comparing characters in your Champions game to characters in mine - without taking into consideration the GM stated power level of the campaigns.

 

Personally, I find anyone's interpretation of published character's of interest - even if I don't always agree with the power levels given - just to see how different folks interpret the same source.

[TheEmerged]

Re: marvel conversions

 

Part of the Spiderman/Nightcrawler disparity problem is the classic "In Whose Book" issue. In the X-books -- Excalibur (Nightcrawler's book) in particular -- he was regularly described and depicted as having superhuman agility. Since superhuman starts at 30, that's an obvious minimum.

 

Forgive me the conceit of an example: Taskmaster. He's been depicted at wildly different power/skill levels, from being able to take out Iron Man while beating up Captain America in one issue while losing to an underdressed ninja in another. There appears to be great confusion about how his powers work -- two particular portrayals get it so wrong as to be criminal (Elektra and the "Secret Avengers" issue that had him getting one-punched by Rick Jones). Worse, not too long ago he had a miniseries that had him going in such a different direction as to be almost unrecognizable.

 

Now, my own conversion of Taskie borrows from all three main sources. I've got him at 36 DEX -- less than Spiderman but still clearly superhuman, for example. But there were some aspects from the miniseries that worked, so I kept them (the hologram, voice impersonation, and "poor man's power ring" to be exact).

 

Which brings us to another conversion disparity issue -- scale. Insert "Batman has a DEX of 20" joke here; I peg him at 30 because a> that's where superhuman starts and b> even before that was stated as official for Champions, I pegged him there *because that's where he's depicted*.

 

The power inflation in comics is also an issue. Most of the JLA as depicted in the comics have to be 1000+ point characters to perform the feats they do -- or have PSL's out the posterior for performing certain feats.

 

The final problem is one on HERO's end in my opinion: material strengths are too high, and as a result many comic characters have to have excessive scores in order to be at the "proper" level.