Dungeon World

[Syberdwarf2]

Greetings Herophiles.

 

I recently handed over GM responsibilities of our group to one of my players (he's running a terran empire game right now) so that I can focus on revamping my current campaign and regain my focus. I feel that I've been able to get a lot more done, and this has reawakened my creative juices.

 

While tinkering with my FH books, I stumbled on a reference to a "dungeon world" setting; one where the universe is basically an enormous, never-ending dungeon.

 

At first glance, this may seem like a dumb idea. After all, that's an awful lot like the majority of D&D games we used to start in our youths. But after a few scant minutes of toying with the idea, I couldn't help but think of some pretty neat things you could do with it if you simply let pure creativity.

 

Why are the PCs there? Do they have recollection at all of theire former existence/plane of origin?

How did they get there?

And just what the hell are al of these monsters doing here?

 

Many aspiring GMs of childhood dungeon crawls failed in explaining why things are the way they are. When faced with explaining why things are in a dungeon, they would throw up their collective hands, and resort to a petty bout of raiding, killing, and looting (AKA hack-n-slash).

 

But what if you could explain these questions? What if the reasons for the "world" being the way it is were answered, and some effort were actually put into its creation?

 

Basically, I'm envisioning something like Undermountain, but which fills an entire plane of existence.

 

I shall now entertain your questions, comments, and advice....

 

My thanks in advance.

[Xiawarr]

Re: Dungeon World

 

Years ago, I had a similar thought but never developed it beyond a summary description. However, I can direct you to some source material that might help you out.

 

There are a series of novels written by John Dechancie that starts with "Castle Perilous" and "Castle for Rent". From what I recall the basic premise of the series was that this castle had a series of doors and windows that opened onto other dimensions (many of them pocket-dimensions).

 

Here is a description from Amazon.com, "Imagine life in an ironically magical world where 144,000 doors separate fiction from reality. A place that can hypnotize even the most grounded philosophy major and deliver a fantastical rhyme to his reason. A place where a best buddy resembles a shaggy carpet, and adventures surpass a boy's dreams?welcome to Castle Perilous."

 

I also seem to remember one of the Conan stories by Robert E. Howard ("Red Nails", I believe), where Conan spent the entire story in an underground city/dungeon complex.

 

Although I personally have not read it, I remember that in the original Fantasy Hero, there was mention of the Ghormenghast trilogy.

 

And don't forget all of the AD&D underdark/dungeon stuff: Menzoberranzan, Underdark, City of the Spider Queen, Night Below, Return to the Tomb of Horrors, The Rod of Seven Parts, Bleak House (death of Van Richten), Castle Forlorn... I'm sure there are many more.

 

From Hero, my best recommendation is to look through the filmography and bibliography sections of the current and old versions of Fantasy Hero and see what might inspire you further.

 

Good luck with this! I'd be interested to hear more.

[Syberdwarf2]

Re: Dungeon World

 

I seem to remember also an Elric story (stormbringer? sailor on the seas of fate?) where Our Antihero was trapped in some sort of limboesque dimension. The premise of this dimension was there was nothing but stone from one end of the universe to the other, and all sorts of critters in between.

 

But as for my dungeon world, I'm thinking that maybe this 'pocketverse' is a dumping ground. A sort of cross-worlds junkyard where monsters, failed experiments and the victims of magewars are deposited.

 

Or perhaps it's more like "Riverworld" where all those who have died suddenly are reawakened?

[Susano]

Re: Dungeon World

 

Ever play FENG SHUI? Sounds like the netherworld, an extra-dimensional space that's the dumping ground for all of space-time. Wormholes and gates lead off to various times, and the place is inhabited by beings from all places and times. If your case, Dungeonworld could be some sort of cesspool of the Multiverse, a place where all the castaways of various magical events end up.

 

The ecology could be based off of edible fungi and fresh water (which runs in from somewhere...). Light is provided from the surrounding air. There is no sun, but everything is dimly (or strongly) lit by an unseen light source. You could have rough caverns and passages, worked stone, ruined buildings, and the like. For a realistic bent, have lots of fungi and small lizards and rodents living off of it. Larger monsters eat that, and so on.

 

Caves can be tiny or so huge you can't see across them. You can have factions, kingdoms, bandits, merchants, and farmers. Some tunnels may lead to the Multiverse, but are probably heavily guarded by something or another.

 

If using HERO, you include modern and future stuff, possible wrecked and ruined, but it could be there. Magic would work, but you'd have to eliminate some effects (no spells that require one to be "outside" for example).

 

As an extended campaign, you'd want to have some sort of closure, I think. Some way for our heroes to either escape, or learn something significant about their world and use that to change their lot in life.

[badger3k]

Re: Dungeon World

 

I've had similar ideas in the past, including one that had the entire civilization in large underground caves that had light, weather, etc, often with magic. Travel was through tunnels and a huge river system.

 

There is a d20 book (or sets) of such a world (which may be the source of the reference). I can't remember who makes it, but it's been out for a year or two. Interesting concept, but I wasn't sure my players would like such a campaign, so I left it alone.

 

The "Dungeon" series (edited by Farmer, IIRC) has the character journeying through a rather bizarre world(s). The Lord of Tiers series dealing with the Lords, who create pocket universes, is a well-written series (written by PS Farmer). For Sci-Fi, the TV show "Starlost" (IIRC) and the old Metamorphosis Alpha game can give some ideas. There have been other stories in similar vein (one by Robert Aspirin was good, but I can't remember the name - it was rereleased a few years ago with a new title, possibly Starship). The Knights of the Dinner Table ran some strips dealing with a "Dungeon in Space" concept where the players got trapped on a huge starship, and ended up mixing genres ("Orcs in the jeffries tubes, Capt! She canna take it!")

 

The hardest part is detailing the ecology of such a place. Is there a natural farming/hunting ecology, is food magically provided (such as the Grails in Riverworld), is cannibalism (although maybe human eating elves is not considered such) the norm, or what? Maybe the characters do not need to eat. Then you have light, temperatures, mining, industry, etc - depending on the constraints, you could make a very interesting or challenging campaign. Perhaps the characters start out with no equipment, and must get their own from those who have such things. Maybe weapons cannot be made, so there is a limited amount available. Perhaps magic or psionics are the standard, and fighters are as unique as wizards in some campaigns.

 

I also had an idea (to use the "Dungeon" part) where the characters came from a high-tech civilization, but by being declared criminals (for whatever reason, even trumped up ones), they end up getting sent to a huge continent where technology isn't allowed. Sort of a combination of the history of Australia, Escape From New York, and the Lords of The Diamond series ("Charon" "Lilith" etc - by Chalker, IIRC).

 

I may have to restart writing that campaign down. Answering this post gave me a few ideas that have potential.

[Markdoc]

Re: Dungeon World

 

There's also the old DnD Underdark (I think...) world, where basically all the action took place under the ground - in dungeons, impossibly huge caverns, etc, etc. Some of the adventures were actually pretty good.

 

There's also a fairly confused novel by Piers Anthony called Cthon, which does avery loose fiff on Norse Mythology in an underground setting.

 

Might be just the thing for all theose people who just have to play dark elves with two swords

 

cheers, Mark

[chiralman]

Re: Dungeon World

 

Maybe DungeonWorld is really the elemental plane of Earth that has been invaded at different times by forces from Air, Fire and Water and thereby justifying these elements. The tunnels can be attributed to a Purple Worm/Sandworm kind of being and the populations can be sent as prisoners by otherworldly magical judgement tribunals... kind of like how Australia got started.

 

Just some thoughts.

[Guest joen00b]

Re: Dungeon World

 

I always enjoyed Ruins Of Undermountain, and in fact had requests to run an entire campaign in there where the first thing that happens is they stumble across the entrance and would spend their whole careers in the place. Under 2nd Expanded rules, the group got to somewhere around 15th level and about 4 full levels into the place. They mapped out the entire place. It was tons of fun to run and play.

[badger3k]

Re: Dungeon World

 

Found "Dungeon World" by Fast Forward Games (http://www.fastforwardgames.com/). EnWorld gave it a 2.63 (poor) score. Seems to fit what little bit more I remember of looking at it. I've seen other products by them and haven't been too impressed. The most that I remember is them using illos of weapons out of museum replicas and giving them game stats.

 

Along similar lines, I've seen ads recently for the "world's Largest Dungeon", but could never figure out if this was a product, a contest, or what. Can't recall who was doing it either.

 

edit - wanted to add: for a mind trip, put your game in a dungeon like "The Cube" movies (IIRC, there were two made). That would definitely drive them (and likely you) crazy.

[Xiawarr]

Re: Dungeon World

 

I found my original write-ups. Thought you might find them useful. Keep in mind that I never actually ran this.

 

Their in MS Word format...and looks like I originally wrote them back in 1992! I hope you can find some use for them. Looking through the two attachments, they maybe variations on the same file...

[OddHat]

Re: Dungeon World

 

There are a series of books written from an idea by Philip Jose Farmer under the title The Dungeon. An entire world built as a prison for creatures from everywhere in time and space. Also, Jack L. Chalker's Nathan Brazil books have a world that could be adapted for this.

[tiger]

Re: Dungeon World

 

Could be that there was a large realm wide mage world that destroyed the surface. The surface dweller's went underground for survival. Start excavating and made the underground complex that is the basis of the campaign.

 

Characters could find other tunnels or large caves that where unknown to the general public. Could hook into old complex and dungeons of the world. Could even find away to the surface and adventures there

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dungeon World

 

Aside from the obvious scenarios such as a prison world, Lyzandred style pocket dimension(s), Underdark spinoffs and so forth, consider a metaphorical slant, where the "Dungeon World" is a metaphor for something else, similar to TRON.

[Old Man]

Re: Dungeon World

 

Maybe DungeonWorld is really the elemental plane of Earth that has been invaded at different times by forces from Air, Fire and Water and thereby justifying these elements. The tunnels can be attributed to a Purple Worm/Sandworm kind of being and the populations can be sent as prisoners by otherworldly magical judgement tribunals... kind of like how Australia got started.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

That's a pretty good idea.

 

For additional "background" play a few games of Nethack and/or Angband.

 

They are both big dungeons. Nethack has it's floorplans persistant until you character dies. Angband has it's layout change everytime you go up or down a staircase. I imagine something of a mix between general cavern confusion and Harry Potters moving staircases.

 

In both cases there are towns that have sprung up to house and feed PCs - where there is a buck to be made, somebody will build a store.

[Magmarock]

Re: Dungeon World

 

An underground universe? I wonder how that would affect a dwarf's ability to intuit depth?

 

Mags

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Dungeon World

 

It would have to be a relative thing, since there's no absolute "surface" as a baseline. Rather than being "We are 100 feet below the surface", it would end up being "We are 100 feet below the Sunken City, and 50 feet above Lake Shadow. Just about even with the Crypts of Salakish."

 

If a GM were to go this route, I would advise not to worry about working out in depth (no pun intended) how deep each major feature is. Just let the dwarf intuit from the last major feature they were at, and assume that the information gained is less accurate the farther the party travels from that spot.

[Hisho]

Re: Dungeon World

 

Does anyone here knows a computergame called Arx Fatalis. The Sun of a Fantasyworld goes out and all the races worked together to build tunnels etc. for survival. There are Cities underground and a lot of dungeonlike tunnels. I loved the idea of this game but never played it to the end...

 

This thread brings back some memories, maybe I should start a little campaign with a similar background... mhm... now I only have to find some gamers here willing to play a fantasygame (with FH)

[Syberdwarf2]

Re: Dungeon World

 

My thanks to all who replied. ALL of your input has been greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, as much as I would like to continue the discussion, I can't. REAL LIFE has snuck up on me and finances dictate that I must day goodbye to the internet for a few months. :weep:

 

I look forward to coming back and seeing where the thread has taken off.

Again, thanks. I now leave the thread for your scrutiny.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Dungeon World

 

Hate to hear it. If past experience is any indicator, you'll have to dig pretty deep to find this thread after a couple of months. But we'll still be around ready for more wholesome Hero action.

 

See you when you get back.

[Old Man]

Re: Dungeon World

 

Were I to do a purely underground campaign, I would start the characters off way down deep, where 'the surface' is considered to be a fantasy, the subject of fairy tales.

 

Dwarf: "I use my dwarven ability to estimate depth."

GM: "Your brain snaps. Make a new character."

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Dungeon World

 

I just picked up a copy of "The Worlds Largest Dungeon" from AEG last night. Its $100 and Ill probably never actually use it, but I had to get it for curiosity value.

 

Anyway, it would probably serve as a good beginning, suitably adapted, for what you are talking about.

 

It might be interesting to dig out all the old Dungeon maps and piece them together to make an endless Dungeon actually. Ruins of Greyhawk + Ruins of Undermountain I & II + Dragon Mountain.....etc etc etc