DEX SPD CV Advise

[Vondy]

I've been running supers for so long that I don't have a very clear idea of what appropriate Dex, Spd, CV levels are for a fantasy game. The genre is essentially low fantasy. Characters tend to be built on about 200 points, but characters in my games tend to have longer skill lists (esp. background skills) and perk lists than most games I've run across.

 

I'm curious where people would put the ranges for Dex, Spd, CV for the following three levels of play:

 

Gritty

Adventurous

Cinematic

[Old Man]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advice

 

 

I'm curious where people would put the ranges for Dex, Spd, CV for the following three levels of play:

 

Gritty

Adventurous

Cinematic

 

I'm not sure there is a clear line between the three. If you're playing on the heroic level aren't they about the same?

 

Anyway, I've usually seen the following ranges as being average:

Dex 12-18

SPD 3-4

CV 4-6

Damage being around 6-8d6N , 2-3d6K. Actually 3d6K is really high end.

[dbsousa]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

I have a house rule for Heroic campaigns that no one may spend more than 10 pts on SPD during character creation. This ensures that only the guy with the 20 DEX can have a 4 SPD, everyone else has a 3. I find that combat goes much quicker if everyone has the same SPD. Lightning Reflexes, and Hip Shot and Hurry play more of a role in combat order in such a game.

 

I tend to have CV's between 5 and 7, DEX between 12-20, and DC's from 3-7. Resistant Defenses stay in the single digits, so a 2d6+1 HKA can do some damage to the hardiest opponent.

[arcady]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advice

 

Anyway, I've usually seen the following ranges as being average:

Dex 12-18

SPD 3-4

CV 4-6

Damage being around 6-8d6N , 2-3d6K. Actually 3d6K is really high end.

These are fairly good numbers for mid-line and main-line combatants.

 

I tend to recommend something similar. Though I would cut damage to 6n/2k for a mainline combatant, and lower for everyone else.

 

Most people will have about 1d6k-1.5d6k, or 3d6n-4d6n - essentially a str min 10-13 weapon.

 

Most range at 3 for speed, and rear-liners can get away with 2.

 

Dex:

 

fast guys: 17-20

most: 13-15

rear-line: 8-11

 

CV: mid-line 5, front line 6-7, rear line 3 to 4.

 

 

Frontline: people who are warriors in one sense or another, skirmish battles are what they do - be it with skill, magic, or brute strength.

 

Midline: the adventurer or rogue. a person who is competant in a fight but not themed for it.

 

Rearline: the scholars, bards, spies, seductive types, farm boys, and other people who are in the adventure for unusual reasons. These are the people who are themed towards some other special talent and combat is merely something they try to survive.

 

 

I tend to put up a stop sign on any player who has any stat over 'characteristic maxima.' I'll make them explain it and give me a lot of theming around it - and if I feel it's too much of an issue / detraction I'll make them cut it.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advice

 

Damage being around 6-8d6N , 2-3d6K. Actually 3d6K is really high end.

 

I don't think I've ever had an attack quite as high as 3d6K in a heroic level fantasy game. The most heavily-thewed barbarian types tend to go about 2d6+1 or less, unless perhaps they're pushing a Haymaker or something. Or chopping away at a stalactite positioned over the monster's head.

 

I'd say the advise already given is pretty good, Von D-Man. If your players are as good as they seem about picking up background skills, you probably won't have too many crowding the 20 DEX range, which seems to be one of the problems with heroic level play, IMO.

 

Then again, if you've been playing supers exclusively for so long, they'll probably feel naked with 15 DEX and 3rPD....

[Killer Shrike]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

There are a fair number of characters on my site here:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/SanDora/Characters/NineArrows.shtml

 

I run higher Fantasy than most, but there you go.

 

 

As a side note, the actual values prevalent for Dex, SPD, DCV, etc isnt really that important -- the important part is the relativity of those values. 3 OCV vs 3 DCV is the same as 9 OCV vs 9 DCV. If everyone has a SPD of X +/-1 then it doesnt really matter what "X" is. Etc.

 

So as long as you are happy w/ the balance prevalent in your game, the specifics really dont matter.

 

EDIT: Nice quote by the way. If only more people adhered to that mindset the world would be a lot more tolerant.

[Old Man]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

I have a house rule for Heroic campaigns that no one may spend more than 10 pts on SPD during character creation.

 

I use that rule too. But I also have SPD calculated differently (INT+DEX)/10. With INT being 2pts.

[Outsider]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

With 200 points to play with, it will be difficult to keep 6 CV, 3 SPD, or 6 DCs as the average, I would think.

 

I would look instead at how powerful you want to have your characters be in relation to the game world, and aim for CV/DC/SPDs based on that.

 

A default peasant is 3 CV, 2 SPD, 4d6 Normal (club). Do you want a half a dozen untrained peasants to be dangerous to your PCs in a stand up fight, if they are caught alone?

 

Do you want your PCs to be able to handle 2 or 3 people who can handle half a dozen peasants on their own?

 

And so on.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

Advice: Give your noncombat types lots to do. Otherwise everyone's SPD is going to be 4.

[arcady]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

Well speed only comes into play in combat, so a noncombatant wouldn't have much use for it...

[Eosin]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

Here is the chart I use for my FH game. Like Shrike said - the values are relative SPD +/- 1 tends to work well for Heroic level games.

 

My Heroic games tend to have higher CVs than the supers games.

 

 

Speed

2 Farmers, Levy.

3 Soldiers, Guardsmen, Mercs.

4 Elite Guards, Maximus (Gladiator), Gimli, W. Wallace (Braveheart)

5 Conan, Arthur, Aragorn, Beowulf, Hercules (Sorbo), Lancelot.

6 Manslayer, (movie) Leagolas, Xena.

 

Dex

14 Soldiers, Guardsmen, Mercs

15 Elite Guards, Knights, Gandolf

17 Personal Guards, Gimli, Average Elf

18 Gorgon, W. Wallace

20 Boromir, Authur, Maximus

21 Hercules (Sorbo)

23 Conan, Aragorn

25 Galad, Lancelot,

26 Leagolas

28 Xena

 

Strength

15 Soldiers, Guardsmen, Mercs, Elite Guards, Knights, Arthur, Leagolas

18 Rand, W. Wallace

20 Aragorn

23 Perrin, Boromir

25 Conan, Bullwief (13th Warrior)

28 Tarzan

30 Ogre

35 Troll, Beowulf

40 Hercules

50 Balrog

[Rick]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

As far as speed is concerned, we don't even use it in hero level campaigns. Everyone is a 4 speed. It takes a little GM fiat when someone Haymakes, but it's otherwise very effective.

 

We keep everything 20 and under, except for certain racial concerns.

 

Average CV's (including levels) are 3-5, Good CV's are 6-8 and anything above 8 is a very compitent, I've had a character (Ize Zumi in L5R, a magicly Tatooed monk) hit Cv's from 10-12, he pretty much ruled the roost.

 

But when we GM in our group we're very serious about keeping things like CV's and DC's under control, this makes things more exciting and gives pkayers other options for their eps.

[Rick]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

Eosins list is a good start, though he slants to high for my tastes, Gimli I think shold hang around a 13-14 dex, Borimir too. A Generic soldier 12 dex. I like Keeping Dexs lower since there is no quantitative quality for it. So it scales however you like it to. Str, while still arguable, a little less maliable, so I can't argue to much against that list.

[arcady]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

 

Speed

2 Farmers, Levy.

3 Soldiers, Guardsmen, Mercs, Lancelot, W. Wallace (Braveheart), Elite Guards, Maximus (Gladiator), Gimli, Conan, Arthur, Aragorn, Beowulf,

4 Xena, Hercules (Sorbo), Leagolas, Ninjas.

 

Dex

10 Gimli, Boromir

11 Soldiers, Guardsmen, Knights

12 Average Elf, Personal Guards

14 Elite Guards, Gandolf, Mercs, W. Wallace, Conan, Aragorn, Galad, Lancelot,

15 Gorgon, Authur, Maximus

17 Hercules (Sorbo)

20 Leagolas, Xena

 

CV

3 Farmer

4 Soldiers, Guardsmen

5 Mercs, Elite Guards, Knights, Arthur, Gimli, Gorgon

6 Tarzan, Maximus, Aragorn, Boromir, Ave Elf

7 Hercules (Sorbo), Conan

8 Leagolas, Xena

 

Strength

13 Soldiers, Guardsmen, Leagolas, Rand, Aragorn

15 Mercs, Elite Guards, Knights, Arthur, Perrin

18 W. Wallace, Boromir, Bullwief (13th Warrior)

20 Conan, Tarzan

30 Ogre

35 Troll, Beowulf, Balrog, Hercules

[Outsider]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

Here are a few thoughts on rating military formations. It applies to the discussion at hand in that it provides a measuring stick against which one can compare PCs or characters in fiction. The way I see it, any military unit can be rated by 3 main criteria : whom they were recruited from, how well trained they were, how experienced they are. In addition, I added a 4th boldface category to act as a catchall for additional relevant modifers. Select one status from each boldfaced category to rate your soldiers.

 

 

Selectivity Status

 

Emergency Levy : Units, as Tolkein put it, that consist of boys who have seen too few summers, or men who have seen too many. (1/8th of overall population)

___Base Stats : 8

 

Regular Levy : Units who's recruits are drawn from men in the prime military age range. (1/8th of overall population)

___Base Stats : 10

 

Select Levy : Units who's recruits are not only from the prime military age range, but who are selected specifically for their suitability for military service. (1/8th of overall population)

___Base Stats : 12

 

 

Training Status

 

Untrained : These "troops" have minimal or no training. They will not be able to perform most military manuvers (form shieldwall, square, change from column to line, etc) and their weapon familiarities will consist of only everyman familiarities (club) and possibly the tools of their trade, such as farm implements (pitchforks, scythes, pruning hooks, etc) for farmers, felling axes for woodsmen, etc. Trade tools are not designed as weapons of war, though, and so will be less effective in htat role (reduced OCV & DC) and will be more easily broken when put to warlike use (reduced DEF/Body).

___Weapon Familiarity : No

___Skill Levels : No

___Morale rating : 10-

___Movement : 4"

___Speed : 2

___Stats : +0

 

Militia : Troops who's regular job is not military, but who are trained, and drill regularly. They will be able to perform basic military manuvers, and will have familiarity with the main military weapon used by their unit.

___Weapon Familiarity : 1

___Skill Levels : No

___Morale rating : 11-

___Movement : -1"

___Speed : 2

___Stats : +0

 

Regular : Troops who's regular job is military, but to whom it is only a job. Their greater proficiency in the performance of military manuvers is represented by a higher movement rate and morale roll.

___Weapon Familiarity : 2

___Skill Levels : No

___Morale rating : 12-

___Movement : Normal

___Speed : 2

___Stats : +2

 

Elite : Troops who's regular job is military, and to whom their military function is a career, or even a calling. Elite troops have an even higher movement rate, and even more esprit de corps.

___Weapon Familiarity : 3

___Skill Levels : 1

___Morale rating : 13-

___Movement : Normal

___Speed : 3

___Stats : +4

 

Experience Status

 

Green : Troops who, while fully trained, have not had battle experience. "Green" status will upgrade to "Blooded" status after the unit in question takes an active part in a major battle, or has taken an active part in a number of skirmishes. In addition to salutory effect on individual soldier's confidence that he can handle battle, blooding a unit allows the officers and NCOs to identify those soldiers who cant handle it, and reassign or apply additional training to them as necessary.

____Morale : -1

 

Blooded : Troops who have had some battle experience, as outlined above. Even in the absence of war, long service professionals are assumed to have seen enough minor actions in their careers to qualify them as blooded, unless they come from notably serene countries.

____Morale : -0

 

Veteran : Troops who have had a great deal of battle experience.

____Morale : +1

____SPD : +1

____Skill Levels : +1

 

 

 

Special Status

 

None : The unit in question has no special status, and therefore, no modifications

 

Guards : Units recruited specifically for their loyalty, and often used (as the name implies) as bodyguards, or to garrison particularly sensitive/important posts. Personal retainers in the presence of their leige lord count as 'guards'. (1/10th of population)

___Morale : +1

 

Picked Men : The cream of the crop from any unit. Sometimes 'picked men' are skimmed off a unit temporarily for special assignments. Failure to return them to their original unit (for whatever reason) significantly reduces the quality of the unit (degrade one experience step) (1/10th of particular unit)

___Base Stats : +2

___Morale : +1

___SPD : +1 (but not if addition causes SPD to surpass racial NCM)

___Skill Levels : +1

 

 

 

Any thoughts or comments? (I tossed this off the top of my head in a sitting... im not married to it )

[Captain Obvious]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

This is pretty cool. I had thought of doing something like this myself, but never got around to it. Luckily, I have the Hero boards to plunder mercilessly.

[Vondy]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

This is fantastic - I really appreciate the thought everyone has put into this. Much to contemplate...

[paigeoliver]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

I encourage combat skill levels in lieu of everyone having 20 dex, and only a single character in the group has a 4 speed.

 

OCVs and DCVs still tend to me more like 7-12, but the only character in the group who wears ANY armor has a body of 5.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: DEX SPD CV Advise

 

I'm with PaigeOliver on this one. For Low to Heroic fantasy, I encourage skill levels over raw characteristics. Thats not to say that certain character types shouldn't have high (up to 20) characteristics, many certainly should, but I encourage my players to advance their characters through skills and skill levels rather than increasing characteristics whenever possible.

 

In many of my past games, characteristics generaly averaged at around 14-16. Most characters had at least 1 characteristic in the 18-20 range (usually Dex. Or STR for big fighter types) Int and Ego usually hit between 13 and 15 except for the mages who usually maxed it out (20 or higher) Speed averaged at 3 with most mages and non-combat types keeping speeds at 2 or 3 and Fighters usually maxing at 4 but occasionally keeping it down to 3. I have very few enemies in my games with speeds higher than 3 or 4, that way the slower types don't feel overwhelmed in every encounter. Of course, boss-monsters don't have that limitation (and my Players understand that the Big Bad Guy is going to be tough to beat)

 

CV seemed to average between 4 and 6 with the Fighters at the higher end of the spectrum. Since I encouraged skill levels, the fighter types usually could generate an OCV of 8 or better with their favored weapon. I also encourage the use of many Optional Combat Maneuvers such as Sweep so fighters that have CV's of 8 or more would often use this advantage to perform multiple attacks against lesser enemies, making the combats much faster. (Hack! Hack! one dead goblin. Slice! Slash! two dead goblins. etc) and since I use Hit Locations, higher OCV levels encourage location targeting vs lesser foes (aim for the chest. At only -3 a Fighter with OCV 8 can routinely rely on a chest hit vs DCV 5 or less opponents) which also speeds play.