Goodbye Washington DC

[altamaros]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

Hi.

 

I've got a strong interest on this as well. My PCs are currently investigating on something that could lead to that. (i hope they won't screw up my scenario this time)

 

I suggest to define your chronology of the reactions :

 

a) The "Ka-Boom" Day: What happened the very day the bomb explodes. - IMHO, 9/11 is probably a -sad- reference : national and global angst; disarray, disbelief, the whole world watching the TV etc... i don't think it would very different with a nuke. (except in matter of scale).

 

"The day after tomorrow" : the very next day after the bomb. the first national and international reactions.

 

c) "The week after tomorrow" : the first measures and decisions (national and international) after. IMHO

 

d) "The month after tomorrow" : medium term strategies, measures, decisions. the first effects on economy begin to point. the first effects on global politics are showing as well

 

e) "the year after tomorrow" : long term startegies, consequences and so. almost all the decisive consequences (economy, global and national politics...) of the bomb are known and have occured.

[OddHat]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

Okay' date=' here's the deal: I'm not really interested in whether people think the US would pull the trigger on the responsible party - or the party they perceived as being responsible - because I think that's a given. Its also short term and narrow in scope. I'm interested in what people think the actual impact would be on a grand scale: what the ramifications would be for the national and global order. What happens to various national and world regions in the aftermath and economic turmoil. I'm also interested in specualtive scenarios in that regard. If your assumption is: "America will continue on as it always has and will remain the worlds singular power without a hitch" that's fine, I won't debate the point with you, but its also not very interesting, and I question how realistic it is. I'm curious in terms of people's speculative scenarios. For instance, the Great Depression was key to the rise of fascism in europe. Would such moves occur anew? Would the WMF collapse, and with it numerous third world countries? Would famine, plague and mass starvation become endemic? Does the US continuation of government plan actually work, or does it have inherent, unperceived flaws? We've got big brass ones that go boom and we're willing to fling them at you isn't really what I'm lookingt for. What does the world look like as the ramifications unfold?[/quote']

 

China and the EU are already on their way up, and China is shooting up fast. India is on the climb as well. With Washington gone, despite the slowdown n the world ecconomy, I'd say Chinese ecconomic and cultural dominance gets a huge boost. From my time working in and with Chinese companies I'd say that this is a very bad thing for non-Chinese. China is not likely to go democratic, but a stronger legal system and less grotesquely overt corruption both seem likely, not that this will help non-Chinese companies. Having spent time in Taiwan and talked with corporate and government officials on both sides of the divide, I would be very surprised if they did not end up going back to China in this time.

 

 

In the US, personal freedoms are gone for at least a generation. An American fascism is possible, especially if we feel that other countries are failing to pay us enough respect. Canada has great business ties to Asia and to the US; I would expect a long term increase in the importance of Canada in world politics from something like this. For that matter, San Francisco is a good candidate to replace NY as America's ecconomic center if Washington goes and NY is hit with the fall out.

[zornwil]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

Okay' date=' here's the deal: I'm not really interested in whether people think the US would pull the trigger on the responsible party - or the party they perceived as being responsible - because I think that's a given. Its also short term and narrow in scope. I'm interested in what people think the actual impact would be on a grand scale: what the ramifications would be for the national and global order. What happens to various national and world regions in the aftermath and economic turmoil. I'm also interested in specualtive scenarios in that regard. If your assumption is: "America will continue on as it always has and will remain the worlds singular power without a hitch" that's fine, I won't debate the point with you, but its also not very interesting, and I question how realistic it is. I'm curious in terms of people's speculative scenarios. For instance, the Great Depression was key to the rise of fascism in europe. Would such moves occur anew? Would the WMF collapse, and with it numerous third world countries? Would famine, plague and mass starvation become endemic? Does the US continuation of government plan actually work, or does it have inherent, unperceived flaws? We've got big brass ones that go boom and we're willing to fling them at you isn't really what I'm lookingt for. What does the world look like as the ramifications unfold?[/quote']

I don't disagree it's not very interesting, but I don't see a major global order realignment, because the event itself is so one-time and presumably clearly understood as such. The global depression seems set in a different world than in the '30s and specifically in that we have the rise of China and the EU which don't seem likely to be derailed at all but also aren't in a position, given a glboal depression, to do more than look good, they're not able to really grab power, IMHO. But China definitely could end up looking good; during the Asian Pacific Rim economic crisis of the '90s, China ended up looking far better than Japan while giving relatively miniscule aid simply because they gave more in terms of their expendable budget while Japan was miserly compared to its own expendable budget. And China has pan-Asian designs so played the publicity well.

 

However, here's some speculative stuff I don't think would happen but would be more interesting:

 

- the EU becomes a much more singular force and a new generation of charismatic leaders trump nationalism with a pan-Europeanism aimed at "securing Europe" against the world's anti-democratic (read anti-business and anti-Western) threats since the US "no longer can"; this new EU capitalizes on Russia's extreme weakness with the new global depression and during the Russian Civil War intervenes, installing a pro-European government; the new EU+Russia tears up NATO and Europe begins to play China against the US and its Pacific interests, creating a new Pacific destabilization

 

- so encouraged, China creates a new "Economic Cooperation Sphere" in the Pacific and lends its troops to Indonesia and Malaysia, who face great unrest and terrorism; while the Phillippines continues to be the US' primary Pacific-facing ally aside from Japan, the rest of the non-Western Pacfiic Rim save the obvious gravitate towards "the new China"; China forces the now-devastated (economically) North Korea to give in on many fronts...and a new united Korea is born, with the CHinese Premier getting a Nobel Peace Prize

 

- The US, feeling unsecure and ill-served by the world community, withdraws from the UN, but the organization does not collapse; instead if becomes the political grounds for China and Europe to represent the evolving world alignment and the name even remains; overtures to the US to rejoin start and stop

 

- in the MidEast some Arab states begin collapsing as economic support structures are too weakened; Israel is increasingly harrassed by terrorists and rogue state actions, but the Arabs are weakened enough that it's non-systemic

 

- with Russia secured, the EU finally brings the Arab MidEast on board with the Euro and promotes a "Global Economic Development Plan" in competition with the regionalized Chinese effort; 2nd and 3rd world powers are quickly attracted to this new non-Marxist Socialist paradigm as much out of desperation; what the EU really does is, as it is the first major power puling out of the Depression and the US remains weakened, squeeze oil from the MidEast into other poorer client-states, buying oil at inflated values and making it tougher on the oil-dependant US economy - meanwhile, Russian oil fields are also working overtime to assure cheap European petrol

 

- the US of course begins oil drilling intensively in its own borders; environmentalism marginalized and rendered a luxury in the scarred nation

 

Just some ideas, need to browse other messages then get back to work.

[death tribble]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

It would also depend on the personality of the President and how well liked he was around the world.

And also the current Market at the time of the attack. If unstable or weak then you get a collapse and possible freefall leading to possible extremist elements rising around the world. If strong it may still fall but have a solid base to climb back from. You could get the Governors in charge of the States leading to independence or break up of the Union. All depends on a human factor.

There is also the possibility of land grab from Mexico and Canada depending on how stable the Union is and how strong they are.

[The Watcher]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

If this is for a superhuman universe another question that needs to be asked is how many supers exist, how powerful are they, and how many of them would try to take advantage of the temporary chaos and intablility to advance their own agendas or just run wild?

 

And conversely, how many and how powerful are the ones who would lend their aid to stabilzing the situation and helping in the recovery?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

I find it somewhat unlikely that Europe or China would be able to exploit the situation too much; economically, the knock-on effects would hit them both badly.

 

As for the superhuman world:

 

-If there is ever a chance for a charismatic superhero to become President ( in initial martial law form and/or genuine election later ), now is it

 

-While it might not be the *brightest* move, at least some megalamaniacal conqueror types are going to try acting. The less sane/intelligent ones.

 

-Likewise, any that are involved in subterfuge and other covert activities are going to have a field day, and probably will start a dead heat run for influence within the recoalescing government

 

-If there are any supers with abilities that could limit the damage ( weather controllers containing fallout, energy absorbers soaking up contaminating radiation, etc ), they should be out in force

[Karma]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

It is quite possible that once the culprits are discovered that supers will become the next combination terrorists/people of middle-eastern origin/WMDs. They have only been around for 10 years so they have not had time to gain the publics trust/adoration/whatever.

 

Suddenly the remaining government would publically denonce, arrest and incarcerate beyond the US borders any super who refused their secret offer to become part of the black op group you spoke of. The public would distrust and possibly attack anyone even suspected of superpowers. The suspicion that any other country might have super-soldiers would be enough to have them nuked either literally or metaphorically ("They have super-powered humans and are therefore a clear and present danger to the United States"). There might even be a Macarthite witch-hunt set up to ferret out supers ("How long have you been a mutant? Do you know of any other meta-humans? Is it not true that in your time as part of the supergroup Liberty-Force you were involved with a member of an Extra-Terrestrial Alien Power? During this time did you tell this person anything that might in any way compromise the security of the United Startes? Please think carefully...") (See Wild-Cards 1 for a good instace of this)

 

None of this answers what effect it would have on the economy etc. but that's because I don't know.

[Guest rbezold]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

I'm more concerned with what it does to the nation and the world order on a strategic and economic level... does this lead to a collapse of major institutions, international bodies, or nation states? Do nations make moves while the US is stunned to make moves in their own regions?

 

Your question was already answered by 9/11. The loss of the WTC caused far more economic damage to this country than the loss of a few politicians ever could. Each member of Congress would be replaced within two weeks by the nations governors, and the new congress would have all the authority it needs to restore order.

 

The economy would not collapse. Other nations would not jump at the chance to screw with us. They would far more likely be praying to every diety known to man that we don't go crazy and start lashing out in every direction. Even the french would be polite to us.

 

OTOH, it might result in a world-wide attempt to eradicate/control all super-beings everywhere.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

If DC were a smouldering ruin, museums around the world would hold candlelight vigils. The Smithsonian is more than just a national treasure.

 

As for the effect on the rest of the USA, it could conceivably trigger a shift of power back to the States and away from the Federal government. I am sure that some people would push for that, anyway (and the US Constitution would be on their side, since most of the Federal bureaucracy is blatantly unconstitutional). If that effort were successful, it would probably lead to a less interventionist foreign policy -- something which some will claim might have prevented the attack in the first place.

 

Or we might declare martial law and turn the USA into a brutal military dictatorship.

 

Pretty grim game, though.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

China's economy is already about to burst (in the real world). It's growing faster than is sustainable. If Washington were hit with a nuke, the economic impact would devestate China. They'll revert to hard-line Communism in an attempt to maintain order and control. Russia has a good chance of doing the same. Chances are, however, we won't see a return to the Cold-War era hate between the US and the Soviets. We've already crossed that bridge.

 

Eastern Europe, however, hasn't gotten past it. They'll plead to join NATO and the EU out of fear of a newly red Moscow. Western Europe, convinced of NATO technological superiority by the success of the US in the first Gulf War (and thus unworried of renewed Russian aggression), will not be too keen on allowing these new countries into the fold.

 

Britain, with closer cultural and political ties to the US than the rest of Europe, further distances themselves in the EU. France, seeing its chance at renewed world power and influence, attempts to ally itself as closely as possible with other EU members that might share its designs (Germany, possibly). The increased military spending by these countries will necessitate a slightly lower quality of life standard (they've been free of defense responsibilities since the Cold War, and their economies can't maintain themselves as is alongside growing military spending). The decreased quality of life, and the need for resources, causes disquiet in the EU. Aggressive tendencies begin to reassert themselves.

 

Europe is in tension.

 

Japan begins to militarize. Previous to this, the Japanese have felt quite secure with their Self Defense Force (and the knowledge that the US had troops on their soil). Shocked by the incredible devestation of Washington, and the seeming blow to American power, politicians in Japan begin to get much greater support for their attempts to expand the SDF. This leads to increased hostility with both North Korea and China.

 

Kim Jong Il, the crazy little bastard, finds himself trapped between a newly aggressive Japan and a suddenly unfriendly China (their return to Communism won't give them any kinship with North Korea--its not for ideological reasons, but for simple self-preservation reasons). He'll be dumb enough to bomb someone with whatever nuke he's managed to scrape together.

 

Asia is at war.

 

Africa remains the same. Genocide, disease, corruption, and warfare dominate the continent. If anything, things get worse.

 

Africa still sucks.

 

Australia, worried about the increasing instability of the Asian continent, devotes more resources to its military. They'll be relatively stable and safe. Already a strong ally of America, Australian/US ties develop further, just as ties between the US and Britain do. Much of the old British Empire forms a strategic alliance in view of the rising nationalism of the EU, Japan, and China.

 

Austalia is okay.

 

South America, like Africa, experiences relatively little economic fallout (their economies suck anyway). Unlike Africa, they don't require an influx of money to prevent AIDS and lots of other diseases, so they don't have the huge die-offs that Africa experiences. Fascist trends grow even stronger.

 

South America remains the same.

 

The Middle East celebrates the blow to the "Great Satan". One country (Syria, perhaps) takes it too far, advocating an attack on Israel and an attempt to force the hated infidels (US) out of the Middle East. US troops in Iraq have a very brief but one-sided encounter with the Syrian troops, and 5 days of cruise missiles and one rapid armor advance later, and there is a new government in power. Insurgents won't be dealt with as nicely this time. Israel begins rattling its saber loudly (and drops a few bombs on people just to make sure everyone heard the saber rattling). Saudi Arabia knows which on which side its bread is buttered, and continue to pump oil to the US as quickly as they can.

 

The Middle East will bear scars, but is quiet, for now.

 

The United States takes a hard ideological turn. A charismatic leader is elected President. The Constitution is amended to allow for more than two terms as the FDR-like figure retains immense popularity. Imagine a "Great Society" type program, combined with a very aggressive foreign policy and a strong pseudo-isolationism. The US continues to deal heavily with specific countries (Australia, Britain, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Japan) and maintains a strong presence in certain areas (Eastern Europe, Iraq). New York becomes the new capital (for now), as it is the highest profile east coast city. There is great distrust between the US and the non-British members of the EU. Relations with Russia remain cordial, if not somewhat strained. The US will value security over ideology. Tension with China grows steadily, but nothing breaks out, as the Chinese confine their interests to the Asian continent. Canada finds itself dramatically overshadowed by the giant to the south that just woke up with a very bad hangover. The border with Mexico is tightened up, though relations between the counties remain good. At some point, Cuba gets steamrolled by the US in a fit of pique, and becomes a US territory.

 

The Monroe Doctrine returns to North America, and the US returns to an odd isolationism.

[Dog Soldier]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

Good analysis, however I personally think the new capital would be somewhere like Omaha or Saint Louis.

[futant]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

The effect of such an attack would depend on the style of game I would be looking to set up for the players. Overall any of the game worlds would be pretty dark given the event which happens. Here are a couple of ideas.

 

 

Dark Champions with standard point heros. Kick the world into the gutter. Washington is toast, and the US takes out the Axis of Evil. Iran, North Korea, and Syria become atomic wastelands. The fallout from DC, while small, still causes a massive panic and virually everyone from southern Connecticut to mid Virginia flees. Economic and social chaos ensues, the US pulls its troops home and effectivly shuts the door to the world. Supers are really the main force holding the country together, with a high body count.

 

If you want less of an effect on the world situation add in force field tech. In a world of supers there is also a super tech. It only stands to reason goverments would aquire and use such tech to protect its most important assests. So damage could be less then it appears at first. Supers ( a la the Ray in Kingdom come) with energy absorption powers could clean up the worst of the blast leaving the death toll and disruption to daily life far less than expected. A different version of the Patriot Act would pass taking into account a world of supers. A draft for supers only would most likely play well with the public. There would be notable exceptions who refuse, while others would sign on before the bill passes. And herein lies the first problem for the heros, sign up or not.

 

Heros could be rogue and wanted by the goverment. But, they still defend America in their own way. Or they sign on and are assigned to either the military or a new branch of Homeland Secruity.(Use a modified version of Primus.)

 

Overall what happens to the world, the US, and other counties depends on the route you as a GM choose to take with the world. Set the tone, then make the world events fit the tone.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

If a stratnuke goes off in the nation's capital, the average citizen would soil themself, then head for the hills until their panic wears off--the first assumption: if the unthinkable has happened once, it can happen again...in my city.

The markets would be frozen, and at any point they were restarted, they'd collapse--global stability and national stability have been shot to hell, and the dollar is probably worthless for the time being.

civilian government? what's that? the 14th cabinet member, assuming they're still alive, declares martial law, and the surviving governors follow suit, with troops in the streets of every major city.

Insurance company CEOs clean out their bank accounts and flee the country, since they're all gonna go bankrupt anyway.

 

9/11: 3000 dead, 100bln in direct damages

1 MT nuke in DC: multiply that by 100--300+ K dead, trillions in damages

 

The strategic military forces are capable of hitting back, but a lot of troops would have the job of keeping public order.

 

People are forgetting one thing: the average citizen does not know this is a one-off attack. He/she will panic--most of us would, if we thought the city we were living in might get vaped at any moment.

 

I think about a year after the attack, the country would begin to recover psychologically, but it might take a decade or two to recover economically.

I think any sense of hubris or arrogance would just be gone forever.

 

But if these were smart supervillains, they'd knock off the world markets instead--after all, if they have a telepath, they can find out where the backup data sites are, and take them all out at once. Without a nuke.

Actually, what they could do is follow up immediately on the attack, since the blast would draw major supers like moths to a flame, and they could just loot and pillage for a day or two before anyone could figure out they were behind it.

I think there's a big diff between Pearl Harbor/911 and instantly wiping out the Federal government and a half million people. The first reaction probably won't be anger, but horror and fear(that it could happen anywhere at any time)

man, what a bunch of gung-ho pollyannas on this thread

 

on edit--someone suggested massive deficit spending--who's buying government bonds after the original guarantor of those bonds has most likely defaulted on trillions in debt? "sorry, we're never paying you back, guys"

[Vondy]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

 

The Monroe Doctrine returns to North America, and the US returns to an odd isolationism.

 

That was a very good analysis/potentiality. I'm very impressed.

[Vondy]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

Actually, a lot of the posts here have been very good. Bravo to you all.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

People are forgetting one thing: the average citizen does not know this is a one-off attack. He/she will panic--most of us would' date=' if we thought the city we were living in might get vaped at any moment.[/quote']

 

People in the USA have lived with that fear before (you may not think they took it as seriously as they would if DC were nuked today, but I assure you, they did). I think you underestimate the ability of human beings to cope with the possibility of imminent cremation.

 

I think any sense of hubris or arrogance would just be gone forever.

 

Oh, I disagree. Recall the national demeanor after the World Trade Center buildings were destroyed? People don't go out and buy a few billion flags out of a sense of humility. That would be nothing compared to what would happen if the capital were bombed.

[Katherine]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

People in the USA have lived with that fear before (you may not think they took it as seriously as they would if DC were nuked today, but I assure you, they did). I think you underestimate the ability of human beings to cope with the possibility of imminent cremation.

 

I think you're underestimating public reaction. This isn't the vague (or even probable) thread of a nuclear attack (with some warning). A major city, the capital has been blown off the face of the Earth with no warning. Hundreds of thousands are dead, etc. It could happen at any time, anywhere. There'd be a fairly massive panic and public order would be hard to maintain. Not just in the US, but in major population centers around the world. Now, would be people -get- used to it eventually. Yes, but those first few weeks would be bad.

[Rapier]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

I think any kind of scenario like this would really have to come down to John Q Public. Doesn't matter if the 14th UnderSecretary of Agriculture grabs (I shouldn't say grab...um...takes his place as leader under the...25th Amendment? Help me out here guys) power.

 

Consider the general public feelings during the Cuban Missle Crisis, the Cold War, 9/11 and Y2K. Now multiply that by about 1000. Noone is going to work, they are going to gather around their families. You can expect widescale looting (people are expecting the end and are going to loot food and guns not necessarily PlayStations). Many people are going to head into the hills. Martial law is a given (similar to a Martial Strike but with more PRE).

 

We are not talking about your average, run-of-the-mill attack here. Even the thought of a local nuclear strike scares the bajesus out of people.

 

Yes, I do believe that some form of government would remain, but I don't think it would greatly resemble what we have now. Who cares about Fish and Game when someone just dropped a nuke? Why should I pay taxes if the government is not going to protect me and is not going to be able to provide me with services?

 

Many, many people would assume this is the beginning of the end and take steps to ensure their survival (even at the expense of others). All this would probably change after 6 months or so, as people realise it was only a one time thing...but how much damage to the government and society would have been done in those 6 months?

[Kristopher]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

If a stratnuke goes off in the nation's capital, the average citizen would soil themself, then head for the hills until their panic wears off--the first assumption: if the unthinkable has happened once, it can happen again...in my city.

The markets would be frozen, and at any point they were restarted, they'd collapse--global stability and national stability have been shot to hell, and the dollar is probably worthless for the time being.

civilian government? what's that? the 14th cabinet member, assuming they're still alive, declares martial law, and the surviving governors follow suit, with troops in the streets of every major city.

Insurance company CEOs clean out their bank accounts and flee the country, since they're all gonna go bankrupt anyway.

 

9/11: 3000 dead, 100bln in direct damages

1 MT nuke in DC: multiply that by 100--300+ K dead, trillions in damages

 

The strategic military forces are capable of hitting back, but a lot of troops would have the job of keeping public order.

 

People are forgetting one thing: the average citizen does not know this is a one-off attack. He/she will panic--most of us would, if we thought the city we were living in might get vaped at any moment.

 

I think about a year after the attack, the country would begin to recover psychologically, but it might take a decade or two to recover economically.

I think any sense of hubris or arrogance would just be gone forever.

 

But if these were smart supervillains, they'd knock off the world markets instead--after all, if they have a telepath, they can find out where the backup data sites are, and take them all out at once. Without a nuke.

Actually, what they could do is follow up immediately on the attack, since the blast would draw major supers like moths to a flame, and they could just loot and pillage for a day or two before anyone could figure out they were behind it.

I think there's a big diff between Pearl Harbor/911 and instantly wiping out the Federal government and a half million people. The first reaction probably won't be anger, but horror and fear(that it could happen anywhere at any time)

man, what a bunch of gung-ho pollyannas on this thread

 

No matter how often they're proven wrong, people keep making this kind of prediction about the American psyche. **shrug**

 

Imperial Japan, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, al Qaeda, whoever. "If we hit the weak prissy Americans hard enough, they'll go home and cry." History keeps proving that assesment wrong.

 

Never mind that the outward manifestation of fear is often to lash out and "get it before it can get me".

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

I think you're underestimating public reaction.

 

You may be right. People often surprise me.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

People in the USA have lived with that fear before (you may not think they took it as seriously as they would if DC were nuked today, but I assure you, they did). I think you underestimate the ability of human beings to cope with the possibility of imminent cremation.

 

 

 

Oh, I disagree. Recall the national demeanor after the World Trade Center buildings were destroyed? People don't go out and buy a few billion flags out of a sense of humility. That would be nothing compared to what would happen if the capital were bombed.

A significant percentage of the populace are biblical literalists--they'd take the event as a sure sign of the coming Rapture and impending Armageddon.

 

I'm old enough to know what that fear felt like, and I also know what would have happened had an actual city been actually nuked--pandemonium. Watch "Miracle Mile" sometime.

 

I don't think we'd be as arrogant or hubristic in our approach to foreign policy, because we'd feel a heck of a lot more vulnerable.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

No matter how often they're proven wrong, people keep making this kind of prediction about the American psyche. **shrug**

 

Imperial Japan, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, al Qaeda, whoever. "If we hit the weak prissy Americans hard enough, they'll go home and cry." History keeps proving that assesment wrong.

 

Never mind that the outward manifestation of fear is often to lash out and "get it before it can get me".

 

Dude, when have we ever been hit as hard as taking Civil War level casualties, losing our Capital, and the central governmental authority--in fifteen minutes flat?

 

I'm sure we'd do our best to nail whoever did it, but if you also remember your history that well, there was panic on the West Coast after Pearl Harbor, panic after 9/11, even panic when the Confederacy had some early successes--that panic would be greater by one or two orders of magnitude after a sudden nuclear attack by an unknown assailant. Who did it? Do they have more nukes? Are they going to nuke our city next? Is the dollar still worth anything? Who's in charge now? Will there be martial law? Will there be riots and looting?

That panic will settle down, eventually, but it will take a lot longer than it did after the precedents you cite.

[Chuckg]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

Every time, somebody convinces themselves that this latest, this big new escalation of threat level on the American home front will be what breaks the national will.

 

Every time, not so.

 

In my imagination, I can hear the words, echoing from the past...

 

'They'll never seriously push the War of Northern Aggression! As soon as the first division or two is lost, they'll stop paying the price in blood and bring the boys home. No one will kill hundreds of thousands of men just to subjugate the South! But we'll pay any price for our freedom!'

 

 

'What can the Americans do with their Pacific Fleet lost? Lost in its own harbor! They have no true samurai spirit! They will never recover from the shock. And they will never be able to dispute Imperial Japan's possession of our ocean... not until years after it's too late!'

 

'The infidels are weak! This will not be like Pearl Harbor! This will be us showing them that we can make their *civilians* die at will, not merely their soldiers! They will be paralyzed with fear! They will do anything to avoid having it happen again!(*)'

 

... wrong. wrong. and wrong again.

 

Every time, it's 'but *this* time, the death toll at home will break them!'

 

And every time, they've been wrong.

 

You can -- if you have a massive PR machine, massive sympathizers for you at the home front, and Presidential vacillation and strategic confusion -- convince America to walk out of a war where all the dying's been on foreign soil. That, we've done once or twice.

 

But you hit the American mainland? You hit us *in our own house*?

 

We hit you.

 

Period.

 

This is the tradition of centuries. And it will not be abandoned.

 

Edit -- of course there'll be panic. There will be scared people. There will be overreactions and might very well be evacuations.

 

What there *won't* be is *giving up*.

 

And before anybody cries' 'jingoism!' or anything else -- no, it's not jingoism. It's the pure and simple realization -- by at least 200 million people -- that to abandon the above tradition, to abandon hope of victory before we've even started trying, is to abandon a key element of what makes the American outlook on life /American/.

 

Some traditions are worth keeping. We might look like we've forgotten that from time to time -- but when push really comes to shove, we remember.

 

 

 

 

 

(*) Actually, there is a bit of irony in the last one.

[Rapier]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

Our dollar (the US one), has no "real" value. Back in the day, a dollar's value was backed by gold or silver. A dollar was worth "x" amount of a precious metal. I don't recall who offhand...but it was around Hoover, I believe, that our dollar became a non-precious metal currency. The dollar now has value because people have faith that the dollar has value. Sounds backwards, neh?

 

All the world financial markets are impacted by variances in a few key currencies (the dollar, the yen and to a lesser extent the euro...to name a few). If DC was nuked, the dollar would become utterly worthless overnight. Remember, the dollar only has value because people have faith in the US government backing it with a promise of its value.

 

The financial markets in Britain, Hong Kong, Japan, Germany would probably not even open (or would immediately close). There would be a rush against the dollar. Eventually, those markets would have to open...and the dollar would still be worthless. All those markets would take a hit that would make the Great Depression look like a mild case of indigestion. Which would further drive down the value of dollar. We saw the bare tip of this after 9/11. We are STILL feelings this...how many years later?

 

Bill Gates could spend most of his entire fortune and might be able to get a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk (ok, Im exaggerating a bit). With the differing time zones for other markets...all this could even happen before we could do anything about it. We would just have to sit back and watch CNN during the middle of the night and watch our life savings and fortunes vanish.

 

Now tack that onto whatever paranoia might be going on due to the attack itself.

[Dog Soldier]

Re: Goodbye Washington DC

 

Washington DC has very little to do with finances. Its destruction would not result in an economic meltdown. In what sort of screwed up world would have grocers suddenly raise the price of a loaf of bread to $45,000,000,000.00 just because a city is nuked? He couldn't sell it, it would be stolen. The Federal Government would regenerate in a matter of a few weeks. There would be lots of complications but not an economic meltdown of that magnitude.