Brick in a Forcewall

[ScotMartin]

The hero Mr. Force has the Forcewall power with enough inches to enclose targets. He also has a SPD 5 and Dex 24.

 

The villain Mr. Brick is a standard brick. No ranged attacks. 60 STR. He has a SPD of 5 and Dex 23.

 

These two fight and Mr. Force uses every action to enclose Mr. Brick in a 12 PD Forcewall. Mr. Brick is thus forced to spend every action smashing down the Forcewall (his casual strength is probably not going to knock down the wall).

 

Ignoring END, and the possibility of missing on the Forcewall attack (which rarely happens attacking a hex), will this fight go on forever? Does Mr. Brick have some sort of combat option to deal with this? An abort to dive for cover would just leave Mr. Brick prone on the ground rather than enclosed in a Forcewall and Mr. Force would just get another chance to envelop him on his next phase. It seems that this is an awfully easy way to contain Mr. Brick.

 

Thanks for whatever info you can give,

-Scot

[Steve Long]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

This seems like a tactics sort of question to me, not a rules question, so I've moved it to "Discussion" to allow others to participate.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

Try using Move Through on the Force Wall instead of just punching it. If you do enough damage to get through (and you presumably will), you can continue your movement after breaking the wall. In this manner, Mr. Brick may be able to reach a position where Mr. Force can't get at him with the Force Wall, or even manage to whack the annoying Mr. Force.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

I like Derek's suggestion. You can Move Through to get behind cover, or just move through to an object you can throw through the force wall to hit Mr. Force.

 

While the tactic is quite effective against a target who can't evade or attack back through the wall (esoteric attacks; ranged attacks; etc.). It is normally the case that a character can be targetted against a weak area (range, possibly movement, in this case) and be effectively nullified. Mr. Force has presumably paid at least 48 points to make this a 12 PD Wall, 1 extra facing, Transparent to Energy, in order to have this power. He shou;d be able to use it, just as Mr. Brick can use the 60 STR he paid 50 points for. A character designed to take advantage of another character's weaknesses while avoiding his strengths can always be designed.

 

When the game goes against you, change the rules. Brick will have to use his brain, not his brawn, to come up with a tactic to break the impasse. Perhaps you don't try to break the force wall on your phase. Just stand there and reserve (or take a recovery...). Will Mr. Force drop the wall, or just let you take free recoveries while he continues to pay END on his wall? If he chooses to attack, Dive for Cover to end up in his hex, or one with decent cover. Now he can't just encapsulate your hex.

 

Note that, while Brick is rendered ineffectual, so is Mr. Force. All he can do is keep encapsulating Brick, so both are removed from the larger conflict. Or Brick's allies can show some teamwork and either break the force wall or "break" Mr. Force. My personal favourite would be Mental Illusions on Mr. Force to make him perceive Brick as the mentalist and vice versa. Now Mentalist has a 12 PD force wall to protect him (which his mental attacks just fire out of) and Brick is free to go pound some other opponents.

[ScotMartin]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

I had considered the Move Through, but dismissed it because I figured Mr. Brick didn't have room to get any momentum going. I guess that was flawed thinking. He can do it, but just won't get any extra damage from velocity, correct?

[jackalope]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

"I've always said she was the most powerful amongst you." - Dr. Doom, refering to The Invisible Woman.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

Well, you could always "Hurry". That adds 1d6 to your DEX and while it does give you a -2 to your action, if you have to punch a wall you will probably stil hit.

 

I would hurry every phase until I got to go and then I'd throw a car at the guy. Put him on the defensive.

 

I don't really see it as a problem.

 

Or, pick up a bus. If he doesn't have enough inches to englobe the bus, you are free... TO THROW THE BUS AT HIM!!!

 

MR. BRICK SMASH!!! AAAGGGHHH!!!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

I had considered the Move Through' date=' but dismissed it because I figured Mr. Brick didn't have room to get any momentum going. I guess that was flawed thinking. He can do it, but just won't get any extra damage from velocity, correct?[/quote']

not true.

 

running only takes 1" to get to full velocity.

leaping doesn't need any room for a 'standing' leap.

 

hypothetical situations like this make me think that Forcewalls need to be customized in some manner to be effective. A generic PD=ED at campaign AP/DC limits is actually pretty ineffectual if haymakers are considered. I would allow the FW to have a primary defense 2-4 points higher if it has limitations like feedback for example.

[Rapier]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

Ignoring END' date=' and the possibility of missing on the Forcewall attack (which rarely happens attacking a hex), will this fight go on forever? Does Mr. Brick have some sort of combat option to deal with this? [/quote']

Mr Brick: "Um, guys little help here?"

Mr FireGuy blasts Mr Force

Ms MentalGirl blasts Mr Force

Mr ArmouredDude pucnhes Mr Force

Mr Force is unconscious

Force Wall drops

Mr Brick is FREE!

 

This is the prototypical problem with some supercombats. Brick A is 60 STR with 40 DEF, Brick B is 60 STR with 40 DEF. WHY would they pound on each other? Brick A should be smacking around Mentalist 1, while Energy Projector Delta blasts away at Brick A.

 

While its always good tactics for Force Guy to keep Mr Brick pinned down [i've got an Entangle Guy I like to use for just this kind of thing], Mr Brick's friends would be insane to let a heavy hitter be neutralised so easily. Villains get tactics too, you know.

[zornwil]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

(snip)

 

Or Brick's allies can show some teamwork and ... "break" Mr. Force.

 

Heh, I can see a big brick handing a (literally) crumpled Mr. Force to the police, "Uh, sorry, we hadda break him..."

[C++]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

How about the brick punching through the ground if he's in the middle of the street or in a building? 60 STR is probably too weak to do much of a shockwave, but in a building, it could also cause the building to collapse and if the mental guy was in it, he wouldn't be having too much fun.

[TaxiMan]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

running only takes 1" to get to full velocity. leaping doesn't need any room for a 'standing' leap.

 

IIRC, that's not true. I think you get 5" of velocity per 1" travelled, until you reach your maximum speed. And, weird as it sounds, the same is true of leaping. Just working from memory here, so feel free to straighten me out with facts!

[Oruncrest]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

IIRC' date=' that's not true. I think..[/quote']

 

True, but you'll get +1½D6 to add to your STR. And if you break thru the forcewall, you can elect to just keep going. If you stated your move thru facing Mr. Force, and you have an unobstructed path to him (assuming you broke out), you might be able to do a move thru on Mr. Force (at -2OCV of course).

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

I had considered the Move Through' date=' but dismissed it because I figured Mr. Brick didn't have room to get any momentum going. I guess that was flawed thinking. He can do it, but just won't get any extra damage from velocity, correct?[/quote']

 

This is correct. But with his 60 STR he should be able to take down the Force Wall, after which point he's still performing the Move Through. At which point Mr. Force better make sure his insurance is paid up....

[jackalope]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

Mr. Brick might be able to kick off from one side of the force wall, and do a leaping Move-Through. Assuming Mr. Brick (with his 60 STR) has 12" of Leap, he would travel 6" from a standing leap. That would give him an extra 2 DC, and ensure he moves a few inches each phase.

[Southern Cross]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

Or he could just Haymaker the Force Wall...

[jackalope]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

Or he could just Haymaker the Force Wall...

 

But that doesn't move him anywhere, and it leaves him set up to be caught in another one.

[Southern Cross]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

This is true.

[ScotMartin]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

Thanks everyone. I'm back to playing this game after a long absence and something similar to this came up in our first session. I know Mr. Brick's friends can help, but I figured there was something he could be doing on his own that was smarter than just punching the Force Wall each turn. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

There does seem to be a little disagreement on what, if any, velocity Mr. Brick has when he does either a running or leaping move through on the force wall, so I'll post that question on the rules forum and see what the "official" answer is.

 

Thanks again for the help!

-Scot

[Rapier]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

Thanks everyone. I'm back to playing this game after a long absence and something similar to this came up in our first session. I know Mr. Brick's friends can help, but I figured there was something he could be doing on his own that was smarter than just punching the Force Wall each turn. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

There does seem to be a little disagreement on what, if any, velocity Mr. Brick has when he does either a running or leaping move through on the force wall, so I'll post that question on the rules forum and see what the "official" answer is.

Acceleration is 5" per 1" travelled (by default). I would give the character 5" of velocity as he leaves his hex. So he would at least have that.

 

Leaping might be different. I'm not sure, but you don't really accelerate during a leap. Shrug.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

Leaping might be different. I'm not sure' date=' but you don't really accelerate during a leap. Shrug.[/quote']

 

I think that was asked in the rules forum a while back, and Steve applied the same velocity restriction in the interests of game balance, acknowledging it required a logic override.

[Rapier]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

I think that was asked in the rules forum a while back' date=' and Steve applied the same velocity restriction in the interests of game balance, acknowledging it required a logic override.[/quote']

Yep. Shortly after posting this I found it on the FAQ. He admits that it makes no logical sense, but it evens out with the rest of the Movement Powers so we pretend.

[jackalope]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

I allow leap to reach full velocity at launch. Because, you know, that makes sense. I think it's balanced out by the fact that if you do a v10" leap, you actually have to leap 10", which can occasionally be painful. Also, not being able to change direction can suck.

[OddHat]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

I allow leap to reach full velocity at launch. Because' date=' you know, that makes sense. I think it's balanced out by the fact that if you do a v10" leap, you actually have to leap 10", which can occasionally be painful. Also, not being able to change direction can suck.[/quote']

 

Megascale Superleap + Sewage Treatment Plant = Comedy Gold.

[Rapier]

Re: Brick in a Forcewall

 

I allow leap to reach full velocity at launch. Because' date=' you know, that makes sense. I think it's balanced out by the fact that if you do a v10" leap, you actually have to leap 10", which can occasionally be painful. Also, not being able to change direction can suck.[/quote']

Yeah. I would to. Amazingly enough, I can't recall ever having a situation where I needed to figure out acceleration rates for leaping. Not to say that I haven't, I most likely have, but I can't recall em.

 

Full velocity on leaping from ground zero.