Interpreting "Body"

[RDU Neil]

Two questions have always bugged me about the stat of "Body" in Hero. (This is a rambling post… so bear with me…)

 

1) What exactly does Body represent?

 

2) What exactly does "taking Body damage" actually represent?

 

Both questions must be answered together. They aren't really distinct questions.

 

Now... I will state first off that there is no "definitive" answer for this. Interpretations will be made to fit play styles, genre and motif. That's fine. But I would like to get some different folks interpretations.

 

My general answers:

 

1) Body represents physical mass and functional structure. A fifteen Body character is more physically massive than a 10 Body character, and more mass has to be "damaged" to break down the functionality of that character.

 

2) Taking body means physical destruction of that mass, and removing of functionality of the character.

 

Now... the above doesn't seem to controversial to me. Others might state it differently, but probably have little problem with this, in abstract.

 

This issue here is, "How do we interpret this in game play?" The things I leave OUT of my interpretation is likely to be different than that of others.

 

I do NOT equate Body with "will to live." To me, there is a stat for this, and that is Ego. I don't like to abstract a stat too far. More Body means you are bigger, thicker, more massive, and can take more destructive damage than normal before "stopping working."

 

Now, unfortunately, the rules don't really take this into account. There is no other way to really "resist dying/death" other than having more Body. (That I know of... is there?)

 

Also, the idea that you can take a bunch of damage in one Body increments, and then be "dying" at zero body is a simple rule mechanic, but one that doesn't make a lot of sense. Death of a thousand cuts should be rare, not regular. Nor does it make sense that you can take nine Body out of ten in one shot, but not be "bleeding" or "dying" in anyway.

 

The whole "hit point" concept left over from early D&D, counting down to zero kind of thang… it is a game mechanic that is not very reflective of ANY kind of reality, even superhuman reality.

 

To that end, I usually use the following “guidelines†when interpreting Body damage.

1) If you take a bunch of “small wounds†that put you at zero or negative body, you are likely NOT bleeding or dying. Small wounds being one or two body done after defenses.

2) If you take a major wound (more than 1/4 you original body score) in one hit, you are likely bleeding, but the rate is variable, based on what is “dramatic†for the scene. For a normal, 10 Body human, that means a wound of 3 Body or more is bleeding.

3) If you are in negative Body, but still have stun points, you can still move about and act, but it requires an Ego roll, w/ -1 for every Body below zero, to do anything other than crawl and hide and recover. This is true whether you are bleeding/dying or not.

4) Everyone “dies†at –10, no matter what your original body. This is just the flat out dead point. I never understood, nor like the “double your original body†concept… but that’s just my personal preference. YMMV. (If you are somehow reduced to -10 by "minor wounds" I would say you cease functioning, but would allow for a "not totally dead" ruling unless it made sense.)

 

Now, all of this is clearly in speaking about your basic humanoid-ish living being. When you get into breaking THINGS, the Hero system in general starts to crack. You begin to see that Body = mass, doesn’t really equal Body = functionality. You can shoot a single bullet into my Honda’s engine and the whole car stops working, but your really did VERY little damage in terms of destruction of mass. The same issues exist with living creatures/characters… but it is easier to overlook, most of the time.

 

Anyway, what my major concerns are, that Body represents too many different things in a game where most stats (characteristics, powers, skill, whatever) are defined as having a clear cut interpretation.

 

Does body = mass? Sort of… but you don’t have to eliminate all my mass to kill me. –10 Body isn’t “disintegrated†by any stretch. This interpretation IS supported by the “Growth†and “Density Increase†models, though.

 

Does Body = Life fore? This to me is “too generalized†and "too abstract." for my tastes. How do you apply this concept to inanimate objects that have Body too?

 

Does Body = functionality? Maybe this is better. This allows for the concept of “a bullet in the engine (or heart) stops the functioning of the target, without actually eliminating all the mass.

 

Now, the idea of functionality really begins to show the cracks in this aspect of the Hero system. Should something like a human body or a car or a submarine have just a single stat to represent functionality? We already have things like Multi-powers in a focus that lose one slot per attack that gets through to do Body, so why doesn’t the damage to a vehicle or body do the same thing? Took a couple body from an attack… what stops working? Can’t hear? Can’t see? Can’t move your left arm? Problem here is that there are infinite “functions†a body produces, as at what point do you eliminate all of them and thus ‘kill’ the body?

 

Anyway, I’m rambling more than I should, but this has always been a major issue in interpreting Hero in the process of role playing and story telling. What descriptive event occurred that is simulated by “taking three Body after defenses†??? Basically, the answer is… “It depends…†but to the rest of you players and GMs out there, I’d like to hear how you make these rulings/interpretations in your games.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

Two questions have always bugged me about the stat of "Body" in Hero. (This is a rambling post… so bear with me…)

 

1) What exactly does Body represent?

 

2) What exactly does "taking Body damage" actually represent?

 

Both questions must be answered together. They aren't really distinct questions.

 

Good post!

 

The problem is that I think your very first premise is wrong. You imply that the answers would be the same for all characters. I think that you have to look at the mechanics and the game structure and that you get very different answers from those two sources.

 

For one character the answer might be that it is structural integrity and the loss of that leads to death, for another it might be an extremely strong will to live that keeps the person going long after others might have given up.

 

In game mechanical terms it is a convenient way of keeping score. It would be possible to go from the D&D model to a Runequest model where damage to particular hit locations cause functional damage relevant to that location. That causes more book-keeping in a game that is already book-keeping heavy.

 

Personally I use BODY in the system as a convenient way to keep score and make it a bit more functional by using it as teh measue of how often you recover when taken below zero STUN. Instead of -10 being the step into once per turn it is -BODY.

 

Doc

[Old Man]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

You might want to read FREd p.273-280

[Sean Waters]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

Ramblings...

 

My take is that Body represents how hard it is to destroy you. In most cases, will to live is a small part of that, but only a small part. With superpowers giving you the ability to literally change your body it may be a lot more. A creature with no internal organs, or undifferentiated organs should be harder to destroy than one with vital organs.

 

Y'see that is the thing about the human form, you can kill it by breaking enough unimportant bits that the functionality just stops, or you can do the 'bullet through the Honda' thing, if you hit a vital organ.

 

Of course defences also play a large part in how hard you are to kill, and can not easily be seperated from the concept of Body.

 

To simulate the 'bullet through the Honda thing, use hit locations and the impairing and disabling rules. To simulate the gradual erosion of your ability to live, just use Body straight from the book.

 

Vehicles damaged as you describe can lose one of their powers - like your Honda's running - so the system holds up there.

 

With ideal character design, a massive, dense, structurally tough character with well defended soft spots should have more Body than the avarage speedster, but I can see arguments...the damage is in some way processed or avoided by the speedster (isn't that a function of DCV?) so the high total represents the fact that he moves ten times faster than us. the Massive Brick has a low body because he is squidgy inside, but huge defences so he rarely takes Body.

 

I'd say, as you did, there is no answer, but I would advocate anyone building a character thinks about why htey have a particular characteristic value, not just stick CON at 23 because it is efficient to do so...high Body or low Body, I'm sure you can justify it, but that is it - you SHOULD justify it in concept.

 

Really not sure where I'm going with this. Might just drive around until someone puts a bullet in my engine...

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

Of course, if you do define BODY as structural integrity you are going to have to come up with a whole new way of killing someone by 'severing their spirit' as that would not be doing any structural damage.

[Alibear]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

Hero is all about special effect, each character defines his high or low body differently as they would with every power or charateristic.

 

Location my arse, special effect, special effect, special effect!

[pinecone]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

I'm firmly in the camp of "both"...yeah I know, I'm Mr. Grey...but...sometimes a big strong dude goes into shock and dies and a small person that just won't quit suivives....so for me both "buffness" and "iron will" are perfectly fine as special effects of a high body. Real injurys are very complex, thats why we only like highly educated people to mess with them, so just having a "Body" stat is a very game friendly way to handle it....if you use the bleeding rules then any would is likely to bleed some and that solves the problem...the same issues arise with objects...a power plant's dynamo may be Huge and well built but a small amount of damage may very well trash it, say one body to the bearings and it self destructs...damage to objects is also complex, me I'm happy saying that the dynamo has 6 body and a "lucky shot" destroyed it...if someone wants to Obliterate it then do something like 30 body and I'll call it good. Its not a simple rule but thats why we need a GM, otherwise it would all be in the book......

[Frenchman]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

Hero is all about special effect, each character defines his high or low body differently as they would with every power or charateristic.

 

Location my arse, special effect, special effect, special effect!

Exactly what I was thinking throughout reading your post, RDUNeil. The Hero system is based on generic powers (and characteristics, to a lesser extent) that are defined by their in-game special effects, more than their out-of-story mechanics.

For example, in our star hero game I play a Psion with lots of TK. He is physically strong (heavyworlder) but his TK enhances this. Because the special effect of his TK is "Telekinesis that rapidly drops in strength as range increases" his maximum-force TK is bought as extra STR. If he was a weakling, he would still have 30+ STR, defined as TK rather than lifting power.

Body, or any other stat, works the same way. The average human and the average squirrel have the same INT (8), but obviously they aren't equally intelligent.

That said, I have gone off on people before for creating small, frail-looking characters with 15+ STR, CON, and Body, because usually more BODY=more Mass. But not always.

It's all about the special Effects, guys.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

Ever see "Snatch"?

 

Bullet Tooth Tony looked like he had a huge BODY score, or maybe some Damage Reduction. In any case, he took ridiculous amounts of punishment and stayed on his feet, despite being a fairly normal-looking guy.

 

I realize that that was just a movie, but that is the sort of "heroic* reality" that Hero is meant to simulate.

 

Zeropoint

 

* not that anyone in that movie was really a "hero"

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

SFX. Whatever translates into "Hard to Kill" for a given character is up to the player and the GM.

 

A character can have as much BODY as they can afford (up to any GM imposed restrictions of course). Trying to link it to mass or structural integrity fits the concept of some characters, but has no relevance to other equally-legal characters.

 

The system is generic and abstract. Trying to rationalize "one way" for any mechanical expression of the system is counter to that basic idea and (obviously) limits the expressiveness of individual character designers.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

SFX is king. The trump of the Hero System.

 

For me, BODY is the game mechanic used to determine how difficult it is to kill a living thing, or make a non-living thing non functional. The SFX of this will vary from character to character, and from object to object.

 

Ash from Army of Darkness has a really high BODY. Not because he's massive or has a really strong will to live. It's because he's a stubborn ass with a really high pain threshhold. I owned a stereo walkman once that I ran over with my bike. It still worked. Looked like hell, all is pieces and it hung kinda funny from my belt, but it worked. I'd say it had more BODY than your average walkman. Not because it was made of thicker stuff, but just because it could still work when broken.

 

As for what doing BODY damage is... this can be tricky. First off, I never view any amout of BODY damage as being "small." If a character or an object has taken BODY damage, it's broken. It might still work just fine, but parts are missing. For a character, this means medical attention is necessary. Band-Aids won't help, and neither will Bactine. You've taken one BODY? Drive to the ER, have it x-rayed, wrapped up and get your prescription for antibiotics. Now sure, in a comic book or a movie, the heroes will get banged up pretty bad. Blood all over the place. Maybe they're limping or have one arm hung loose at the side. They've taken a couple of points of BODY.

 

For people, here's how I rate BODY damage (kinda). This is per hit. If you take a lot of 1s and 2s, you have a lot of flesh wounds and no broken bones. If you lose enough flesh, you either bleed to death or go into shock and probably die from that.

 

1 or 2: Nasty flesh wound. It's bleeding. Go to the ER.

 

3 to 4: Fractured bones. There might be internal bleeding. Have someone take you to the ER.

 

5 to 6: Broken bones. Very likely to be internal bleeding. Call a paramedic.

 

7 to 8: Shattered bones, ruptured organs, internal hemorenging, etc. Call 9-1-1.

 

9 to 10: Really big ouch! Severe head trama, severed limbs, disembowlment, ruptured vital organ. Call 9-1-1, and a priest.

 

11+: If you've taken this much damage in a single hit and are still alive, make sure you remember the story to tell your grand children. If you're still conscious, stand up and make a Presence Attack against the guy who did it to you. It worked for the Samuri.

 

These numbers would likely be adjusts for characters with different BODY stats. A single hit doing 10 BODY to a guy with 30 would be on par with doing 3-4 to a guy with 10. I'd still recomend making the Presence Attack though.

 

And what about all those little nicks and scraps and bruises? Those are just SFX of being hit. Really, when you get a little nick you can virtually cure with a band-aid, are you really disadvantaged by it? If you get then of them will you need to be put of life support? Hardly. They're cosmetic damage at best and needn't be recorded as damage for anything else but show. That's why there's a lot of "poison dart" attacks out there that are NND versus resistant defenses. The dart doesn't do enough physical damage to warrant a seperate attack (meaning that it couldn't even do a single point of BODY). The NND is there to show if the target has any defenses at all, the dart doesn't penetrate. If he doesn't have rDEF, then it doesn't penetrate on a missed roll (maybe it was deflected by a thick coat, may it just missed).

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

 

1) What exactly does Body represent?

 

2) What exactly does "taking Body damage" actually represent?

 

Both questions must be answered together. They aren't really distinct questions.

 

1) Anything the player in question wants it to represent. Like others before me have said, SFX is everything. I've played a characters who's phyiscal mass is below average, but who was a Ch'i master - had a 23 body (in a Heroic game). The Ch'i, by my definition, gave them a strong grip on connecting the spirit to the body. Vehicles are mass and complexity.

 

2) Depends on one. If the definition for body is "will to live" or "super ch'i" then the taking of body represents not just the physical damage, but the shock to the nonphysical systems that are by SFX body. Vehicles are just damaged.

 

I do agree that -body is not desintigrated, just deal/nonfunctional.

[The Zebediah]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

There are a goodly number of powers and stats that affect how hard to kill a character. Body, damage divisors, high DVC or attack blocking capability, regeneration, armor...

 

I'm not sure if this is what the original poster was wondering about, but it would be useful to have some ort of general sense of what justifies Body, as opposed to the other options listed above, and how does this interact with things like Drains, Aids, armor-peircing, penetrating, reduced penetration, and the like?

 

There are supposedly cross-genre writeups for pistols, swords, platemail, and kevlar vests (just to keep things in the realm of armors). Do these actually interact with each other in roughly the expected manner when your cross-time adventurers wind up in a fight that involves all of them? How well does an assault rifle tear through a brick wall?

 

Some sense of what these things are abstracting is very helpful for making sure that the writeup choices actually play nicely with each other...

[RDU Neil]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

Thanks all, for your comments. It's basically what I expected. Everyone has their own idea, and the concept of the character drives the SFX. Nothing new there.

 

I think the issue that I have problems with, is when SFX make it hard to compare characters and items in the game world. Take the wizened ch'i master above, with 23 Body. Now, I know a bunch of bricks that are Hulk sized that don't have 23 Body. Often they don't need to have large Body numbers, because their innate defenses make taking body rare. Still, I compare The Bulkster to The Wizened one and go "huh?" How does that work? My concept of what Body is isn't matching that players. (I'm not saying it is wrong, but I feel it should be consistently interpreted within a game/campaign.) So, for me, I would say that Damage Reduction is how I want players with smaller, but "hard to kill" characters to buy it... not more Body. Body, IMO, should be mass and pure physical being that must be destroyed to kill/break.

 

It gets even worse when you compare the stats for a car or something and go... "Huh? That car has the Body of a normal human? What the...?"

 

Abstracting Body too much... to be whatever the player wants it to be... just bugs me. It starts to smack too much of the old D&D Hit Points (not to mention AC.) I remember discovering Champions back in '81 and just loving the fact that defenses reduced damage, not made you harder to hit... and Body and Stun were separate stats... and Body meant "wounds" pure and simple... it wasn't abstracted into "soaking the hit" or "lucky miss" or whatever. I want to avoid going anywhere near that abstract level. It takes the verisimilitude right out of the game, for me.

 

Body is Body is Body. A shotgun that does 9 Body to a target is destroying the same amount of mass... 9 Body worth... no matter what the target. If one target has 50 Body vs. another target with 10, then they can afford to lose that chunk of flesh, where the second guy can't.

 

Anyway... this is probably just a personal preference thing, but I do appreciate all your comments.

 

I guess I'm saying that I would like a stat that represents the mass of a character/object to be separate from the stat that indicates when that character/object dies or breaks. Example: A car would have something like ten times the mass of a person (making up numbers here), but might have a very similar "breaking point" as a human does to "dying." The difference would be, low "dying point" means I'm out of the fight and non-functional, but if I have a lot of mass still, I haven't been "destroyed." I guess I'm thinking of the difference between non-functional and destroyed being clearer... not so subjective. Anyway... it's late and I'm rambling. Appreciate the comments from you all.

[dbsousa]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

I guess I'm saying that I would like a stat that represents the mass of a character/object to be separate from the stat that indicates when that character/object dies or breaks.

 

How would you use such a statistic in the game?

[RDU Neil]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

How would you use such a statistic in the game?

 

Haven't really thought it out in detail, just rambling here, but the "killing/breaking" stat is pretty clearly the way Body works in most cases... but the "mass" stat applies more in line with objects/stuff. Basically what does it take to break a wall down to rubble, as compared to what does it take to just put a hole in it. What does it take to "break" a car (in the Honda example above) vs. what does it take to reduce it to scrap.

 

Example of use: It doesn't take nearly as much to stop a vehicle from working, as compared to "how much damage do I have to do to shatter/destroy/scrap a vehical that has been thrown at me as a weapon."

 

While that pistol shot may have killed the engine as the Honda flew toward me, it did NOTHING to reduce the mass of the object that is about to crush me.

 

This does come up, quite a bit, in supers games. Sometimes destroying the object is more important than just breaking it, but the abstraction of what "Body" is can make this hinky. I have Soul Death with a KA vs living things that drains their life force. Great... but it doesn't destroy the physical mass of the body of Iron Monger, which is now being used to club me to death by his partner Smash Fist! Yeah, you can just go with SFX, but in this case, the difference between my KA and Flame Guy's "incinerate" has a serious game effect. His effects the mass as well as the functionality... Soul Death just affects functionality.

 

Again, this might not be as big a deal for others, and it is an annoyance to me more than anything else. This is just a rambling thread to analyze the POSSIBLE need to address Body in a less abstract way.

 

The mass stat would come into play in cases like that... in cases where blow through is important... in questions of how certain attacks effect certain objects, etc. A number of threads on KAs, bullet damage, how does armor work, etc., bring up these issues, and I'm kinda wondering if the breakdown comes in the stat of Body being too general/abstract as to cause interpretation conflicts in game. Again, just a theoretical question here.

[Outsider]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

How would you use such a statistic in the game?

 

I toyed with adding a 'Mass' stat at one point for FH only. It got mixed in with some serious juggling of other characteristics too, and a rule that outlawed buying up figured characteristics.

 

The way it worked, if I recall correctly (which I probably dont, and it was just some thoughts anyway, not a finished modification) :

 

Base Stats :

Frame : The character's basic physical proportion.

Constitution : The character's resistance to hardship

Dexterity : The character's basic mind/body interface efficiency

Intellegence : The character's ability to process or recall information quickly

Ego : The character's strength of will

Comliness : Looks.

Combat Speed : A reflection of the character's ability to make decisions in high stress situations, such as combat.

 

Condition stats :

Fat : Mass adjustment away from 'ideal' gained or lost as body fat. Gain any number desired, or lose up to 20% of Frame. Expressed as a positive number if obese, or a negative one if skinny.

Muscle : Mass adjustent from 'ideal' gained or lost as muscle. Gain up to 50% of Frame, or lose up to 30%. Expressed as a positive number if musclebound, or a negative one if scrawny.

 

Primary Figured Characteristics :

Body : Frame+Fat+Muscle

Mass : Body*8 kg

Strength : Frame+Muscle

Agility : Dex-Fat-Absolute Value of (Muscle)

Presence : Frame+Muscle-Absolute value of (Fat)/3

 

Secondary Figured Characteristics :

PD & ED : Body/5

OCV (Melee) : Agility/3

OCV (Range) : Dexterity/3

DCV (All cases) : Agility/3

Recovery : 2*Constitution/5

End : 2*Constitution

Stun : Body+Ego

 

Encumbrance : (Mass-Strength)*8kg

Long Term Enduance : Reduce REC by 1 if the character is skinny (neg. FAT stat) and/or by Muscle/2 if they are musclebound (positive muscle stat)

[pinecone]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

Have you ever played Runequest? They have Siz(e) and Con...Siz is basicly how massive and Con was basicly "clinging to life" If I recall correctly Siz modified Damage dealt,Not hit points,just goes to show put three gamers in a room and you get 5 opinions........

[zornwil]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

I am more with Dust Raven's answer. I like the BOD system he posted, too, but for me for superheroes I like the figure who's completely bloodied, 0 BOD, but still going. Doesn't work for heroic-level though for me, I think the book's impairing rules are adequate.

 

As to SFX, we had a troll character whose body could become disengaged from itself, his eye traveling on its own, his hand on its own, etc.. So for him a lot of BOD damage was really him breaking apart but up to death his parts could all function fine.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

1 or 2: Nasty flesh wound. It's bleeding. Go to the ER.

 

3 to 4: Fractured bones. There might be internal bleeding. Have someone take you to the ER.

 

5 to 6: Broken bones. Very likely to be internal bleeding. Call a paramedic.

 

7 to 8: Shattered bones, ruptured organs, internal hemorenging, etc. Call 9-1-1.

 

9 to 10: Really big ouch! Severe head trama, severed limbs, disembowlment, ruptured vital organ. Call 9-1-1, and a priest.

 

11+: If you've taken this much damage in a single hit and are still alive, make sure you remember the story to tell your grand children. If you're still conscious, stand up and make a Presence Attack against the guy who did it to you. It worked for the Samuri.

 

Originally, I would have had a very similar interpretation... but after playing for many years, I just realized that this can't be workable for every character.

 

If you have a 40 body character, then 1-2 Body is no big deal. If you have a 4 Body character, it is immediately life threatening. The above assumes that 1 Body = a definitive amount physical damage... but that kind of thinking is what lead to my original question. By Dust Raven's model (and I'm not saying this is wrong, just a different way to do it) EVERY characer should have about the same Body... just their defenses differ. So Puny Banner and the Hulk both have the same body... so 1-2 Body is the same "ow level" for both, it is just a lot harder to ever do 1-2 Body on the Hulk. 1-2 Body would look very different on each, but have the same level of "ow and injury" effectively.

 

I don't really buy this. To me, Puny Banner has 8 Body, and the Hulk has 40 or so. Therefor, 1-2 Body for Banner is scary... but goes unnoticed by the Hulk. Also, the Hulk benefits from higher defenses so doing that damage is really hard in the first place. Essentially, Hulk is superior (physically) to Banner is at least two different ways, harder to hurt, and more able to soak up what hurt does get through.

 

Body Damage is relative to Body of Target. That's what is weird... which is why I'd like to have a "Mass" stat or whatever as an addendum. Example. Keep Body as it is, and consider it the "Functionality" stat. Reduce this stat to stop target from working/functioning/living. The Mass stat would be a sub-stat... dirt cheap to buy up (like 10 for 1or even 20 for 1) and would indicate the "sheer physical mass" of the object, aside from it's breakability. Example: A tank would have a certain amount of Body... but also have a much, much higher Mass stat.

 

This could also help deal with "inert objects" vs. "machines/functioning objects" A wall has a mass stat, but no real Body, because it isn't "functioning" in any way. A machine has both.

 

Anyway... this is all theoretical, and would probably not benefit the game for the level of complexity it would add, but this discussion did help me figure out how to enunciate what was bugging me.

 

Thanks

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

Obviously this would be something for your game to define before you start but have you considered making your players define their BODY?

 

You could have two BODY stats, one to represent clinging to life and the other defined as mass. Just like we have normal and resistant defences.

 

So a character would start with 10/10 BODY - 10 Mass BODY/10 Spirit BODY. Soul Drain would affect the clinging to life BODY, thus if a character was affected by Soul Drain for 4 BODY then it would reduce Spirit BODY to 6 and leave the Mass BODY at 10. If either BODY was reduced to 0 then the character dies.

 

As BODY costs two points then it would be quite easy to cost each type of BODY at 1 point each.

 

This does introduce complexity to damage without unduly adding more complicated kinds of mechanic. You could easily represent a rampaging monster that soaked up physical damage but succumbed more easily to attacks on its spirit or the old man that could be taken out with a decent punch but clung to life under severe duress.

 

 

Doc

[RDU Neil]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

Obviously this would be something for your game to define before you start but have you considered making your players define their BODY?

 

You could have two BODY stats, one to represent clinging to life and the other defined as mass. Just like we have normal and resistant defences.

 

So a character would start with 10/10 BODY - 10 Mass BODY/10 Spirit BODY. Soul Drain would affect the clinging to life BODY, thus if a character was affected by Soul Drain for 4 BODY then it would reduce Spirit BODY to 6 and leave the Mass BODY at 10. If either BODY was reduced to 0 then the character dies.

 

As BODY costs two points then it would be quite easy to cost each type of BODY at 1 point each.

 

This does introduce complexity to damage without unduly adding more complicated kinds of mechanic. You could easily represent a rampaging monster that soaked up physical damage but succumbed more easily to attacks on its spirit or the old man that could be taken out with a decent punch but clung to life under severe duress.

 

 

Doc

 

 

I really do like this idea... (Must spread rep around... darn it). I had thought of it, but not in the simple Body costs 2 points, so this would be easy to divide. That is a cool concept. It might beg the question "What kind of Body damage does your attack do?" Assuming a base assumption that all KAs do "both kinds" as a default, this might leave room for limitations (only "Life Body" or only "Mass Body" damage)

 

Hmmmm... My players really don't like complicating the game, but this might be something I keep in the back ground and bring up only in those instances when it matters.

 

Thanks

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Interpreting "Body"

 

I really do like this idea... (Must spread rep around... darn it). I had thought of it' date=' but not in the simple Body costs 2 points, so this would be easy to divide. That is a cool concept. It might beg the question "What kind of Body damage does your attack do?" Assuming a base assumption that all KAs do "both kinds" as a default, this might leave room for limitations (only "Life Body" or only "Mass Body" damage)[/quote']

 

It does beg the question. As the GM you'd possibly have to decide whether the default was both kinds and then limitations would be available to make it one or the other or to default to one type and add both using advantages.

 

It shouldn't matter except for special effects as you wouldn't be changing defences based on BODY type...

 

 

Hmmmm... My players really don't like complicating the game, but this might be something I keep in the back ground and bring up only in those instances when it matters.

 

It is one of the continuing questions - does the proposed complication add to the gameplay or not. If it adds enough then you complicate the system, if it doesn't then you don't.

 

Doc