The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

[Powerhouse]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

The book pretty much sucks and is a cancer upon the history of the Avengers.

[Powerhouse]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

I just realized that if this New Avengers book was called New Defenders, and you replaced Spider-Man with say Beast, I would unequivocally love this book. The feel of this book is very Defender-ish, the good old days with Valkyrie and Gargoyle.

 

Good point. This would be a decent Defenders book in that it's a non-team nor is it the best in the world team of heroes. Unfortunately it's the New *Avengers* and thus sucking royally.

 

Too bad really.

[Enforcer84]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

I often see Wolverine referred to as homocidal.

 

Frankly, I can't recall an instance of Wolvering actually killing someone. There's plenty of shots of him tearing through sentinels, slashing people, etc. But then I never collected the Wolverin solo series and theres about an 8 year gap in my knowledge of comics.

 

I'm just wondering who he's killed?

And that was supposed to be his schtick, he was seeking to conquer the berserker rages in his heart. But then it turned out that was cool and he didn't have to. Happy Happy Joy Joy.

[Enforcer84]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

Oh, and not to rain on any parades here, but when an Avengers team has trouble taking down "The Wrecker" (not even the Wrecking Crew, mind you, just the one guy); they might want to see about a roster revamp tout suite.

[Vigil]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

Especially Sentry. All I've seen the guy do is mope with the force of a million exploding suns...or whatever his dopey catch phrase is. The mini-series sucked, he's even worse in The Avengers and he's certainly the most inane and boring Superman clone of all time.

[Bloodstone]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

Oh' date=' and not to rain on any parades here, but when an Avengers team has trouble taking down "The Wrecker" (not even the Wrecking Crew, mind you, just the one guy); they might want to see about a roster revamp tout suite.[/quote']

 

You know, I gotta agree with that and I actully LIKE the new team. But I hate the rather vast power level differences, just as I hated it in the old Avengers.

[MCMaenza]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

I happened to read about the team in the issue of New Thunderbolts where the 'Bolts cleaned their clock. Should that have happened to an Avengers team? Not usually. Why did it happen this time? None of these guys functioned as a solid team. Say what you will about past Avengers line ups as far as power levels or sheer popularity of members (ie. who could support their own title - who could not), but at least they learned how to fight as an effective unit.

 

Oh, and two Spider characters in the book at the same time? Nuh uh. Doesn't feel right at all.

[Andrew Cermak]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

I happened to read about the team in the issue of New Thunderbolts where the 'Bolts cleaned their clock. Should that have happened to an Avengers team? Not usually. Why did it happen this time?

 

It happened because Fabian Nicieza wrote it that way. He wanted the Thunderbolts to look good and the Avengers to look like chumps, so that's how he wrote it.

 

It was rather silly.

[Sketchpad]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

It happened because Fabian Nicieza wrote it that way. He wanted the Thunderbolts to look good and the Avengers to look like chumps, so that's how he wrote it.

 

It was rather silly.

 

Maybe silly ... but when you look at it, they should be able to clean the clocks of the "New Avengers" ... sad really

[Chuckg]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

Quoting a post from another message board I frequent:

 

[...] But I want to digress into what Marvel has been doing over in the Avengers.

 

Now regardless of whether you believe them to be the "true" Avengers (personally I do) or not, one thing is readily evident. These guys are completely unprepared for anything that comes their way. Throughout the run, the New Avengers have been upstaged by, Dr. Strange, S.H.I.E.L.D., Emma Frost. Now they got stalemated by the Hand...the friggin Hand!?! Haven't we seen a Wolverine beat them solo? Hasn't Daredevil taken out a room full of these guys? Hasn't Spider-Man or the Heroes for Hire tandem of Luke and Danny schooled the Hand before? They have yet to solve a problem on their own or do anything of note outside of Spider-Man's comic when they stopped Hydra without outside help. To throw salt on the wound, the Thunderbolts ambush and completely humiliate them. Now I believe that the Thunderbolts should beat them more often than not, but it looked like the Fantastic Four beating up on Power Pack.

 

How exactly do these guys (Avengers) look themselves in the mirror in the morning? Damn, the New Warriors did better in their first year than the new Avengers have.

[Chuckg]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

There's also the part where a couple of months ago, the Runaways took on the entire Wrecking Crew -- and absolutely ground their faces into the dirt.

 

Way to go, New Avengers, you're being upstaged by schoolkids.

[Andrew Cermak]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

There's also the part where a couple of months ago, the Runaways took on the entire Wrecking Crew -- and absolutely ground their faces into the dirt.

 

Way to go, New Avengers, you're being upstaged by schoolkids.

 

There are few villain teams out there that vary as much from showing to showing as the Wrecking Crew. That's on the editors' shoulders.

[Eyendasky80]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

They did win, and in a very short amount of time. However, due to decompression, it dragged on for an entire issue, but from what I could tell from the book, they landed in their jet stepped out the door and confronted Wrecker. Who kicked the crap out of them for a few minutes and then they rocked him. I blame Bendis for making a win look like a loss in an effort to make Spider-Woman more "kewl."

[Vigil]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

I think what's consistently obvious with BMB is that he doesn't like the Avengers, other than the idea of destroying or humiliating them.

 

Moreover, he has absolutely no clue as to how to write them (which is why he loaded a team with charcters who have no business being Avengers) and seems to have no empathy for them or their history. Add that to the entire mercenary approach taken ion adding Spidey and Wolverine solely for sales kick and you have what I believe to be the worst chapter of Avenger's history and the absolute triumph of the mercenary over the creative. That's the real Avenger's Disassembled IMO.

 

And IMO those are all signs of a lousy writer.

 

V

[Eyendasky80]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

I understand why people don't like Wolverine in the Avengers, but I think Spidey is a good fit. He's a social guy and they've been trying to recruit him since the sixties, he's been a reserve and I think the only reason he hasn't been an Avenger before is because of his own self-doubt. Now that he's matured and is starting to think maybe he deserves something good for a change, it makes since that he would agree to join the Avengers. Whether or not it works out? I don't know. But I for one am glad to see him there, where I thought he always belonged. The only time I read the Avengers for any length of time was when Spidey joined after a guest spot to fight Nebula. He quit soon thereafter, but I was really into him on the Avengers.

[Chuckg]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

I agree that that the general idea of Spidey becoming an Avenger makes perfect sense.

 

Sadly, that well is now forever poisoned, because Bendis' execution of that idea has been execrable.

[Hermit]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

I understand why people don't like Wolverine in the Avengers' date=' but I think Spidey is a good fit. He's a social guy and they've been trying to recruit him since the sixties, he's been a reserve and I think the only reason he hasn't been an Avenger before is because of his own self-doubt. Now that he's matured and is starting to think maybe he deserves something good for a change, it makes since that he would agree to join the Avengers. Whether or not it works out? I don't know. But I for one am glad to see him there, where I thought he always belonged. The only time I read the Avengers for any length of time was when Spidey joined after a guest spot to fight Nebula. He quit soon thereafter, but I was really into him on the Avengers.[/quote']

 

I'm a big Spidey Fan and I totally agree with you. Spider-Man is often at his funniest/best when bounced off a fellow hero or two, one of the reasons I'm fond of the old Marvel Team up (and I hear good things about the current series as well). He really doesn't strike me as big a loner as some people have claimed. Besides, Spidey as a team player would be one aspect of the character that many writers haven't had the chance to explore in depth yet.

 

I like the interaction he's done so far with Luke and, to a lesser degree, Spider-Woman in NA, and the relationship between Peter and Tony in ASM was great.

[levi]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

I just hope that some editor over at Marvel or even Jose Quesada himself gets his head out of the clouds and gets a hold on Cap. Stan Lee used to oversee all of the Cap editors to make sure he didn't stray. Since The Ultimates and the Marvel Knights Cap series it seems like they want to make him a naive, jaded, grumpy old warhorse instead of the idealistic icon and consumate professional crimefighter he was for 50+ years. I worry mostly because Marvel has there own film slate now and the rights to the Cap movie again and Avi Arad (Exec Producer on all Marvel Films) has stated that he doesn't much care for the character, but really wants to make a Cap movie. That scares the hell out of me.

[Tim]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

Avi Arad (Exec Producer on all Marvel Films) has stated that he doesn't much care for the character' date=' but really wants to make a Cap movie. That scares the hell out of me.[/quote']

 

WTF! If he doesn't like the character, why, in God's name, does he want ot make a movie about him???????

[Vigil]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

I agree, Levi, but even a naive and grumpy old warhorse is a far more prefereable option than the mean spirited cynic that he seems to have become. To me, Cap always has to represent the ideals that most people pay lip service to but don't hold in any true esteem. He walks the talk in a way that no other hero, even Superman, does. In that way, he's more than just an idealist. hHe's the ideal, itself. Long live the one true, Captain America!

 

V

[Vigil]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

To illustrate your point, further, Tim...warren Ellis has sated that he, basically, despises superheroes...so what do they do...they get him to write all the superhero books they can throw at him with the bizarre idea that he'll have a fresh and invigorating take on superheroes...yeah, his take is that hates them! Is that good? Revolutionary? Refreshing or novel? not IMO.

 

V

[Tim]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

To illustrate your point, further, Tim...warren Ellis has sated that he, basically, despises superheroes...so what do they do...they get him to write all the superhero books they can throw at him with the bizarre idea that he'll have a fresh and invigorating take on superheroes...yeah, his take is that hates them! Is that good? Revolutionary? Refreshing or novel? not IMO.

 

V

Totally agree, rep to you.

[i3ullseye]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

I liked the first few books actually. The prison break was well done I thought. No one expected the arm!

 

The itneractions are better than I expected also. Cap pissed? Well, yeah... right now in that story line he has a certain right to be VERY pissed about what has gone on, and is going on. I don't know that it is so much a vast departure for Cap so much as a reaction to current situations that may subside in time.

 

I really like Peter thinking he isn't 'worthy' to be an Avenger, and Cap just dropping his jaw and saying basically "You are Spiderman! You have done everything!"

 

Good and bad. I stopped buying it actively after 8 issues or so, but will probably get a TPB of it.

[Enforcer84]

Re: The New Avengers - Good Or Bad, Threat Or Menace?

 

 

I really like Peter thinking he isn't 'worthy' to be an Avenger, and Cap just dropping his jaw and saying basically "You are Spiderman! You have done everything!"

 

 

That would have been fun to read.