Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Yes, the Brother Blood I'm referring to was a very different character from the one you're describing. The original BB was a charismatic, ominously powerful presence, the leader of an international "church"/cult who was a master at manipulating the minds and emotions of others. He played the Titans like a flute to advance his plans, but ultimately fell prey to his own hubris, and the fury of a woman scorned.

[Eyendasky80]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

The only one making this into a personal vendetta apparently. I state my opinion and you claim I'm having a homosexual lust for the man, very mature indeed.

 

And if you call writing good stories being out of good ideas, then I feel sorry for you.

 

That's all I have to say about that.

 

I never said you had homosexual lust , I said you appear to be in love with the man because you leap to personal insult to defend any who dare impugn his honor. You wanna draw some conclusions on your own, that's your business and I'd appreciate if you wouldn't credit me with your thought processes. And your opinion was I'm creepy so don't play innocent victim with me, pal, you've already showed a certain degree of disrespect here. May as well stick to your guns.

 

And no I don't call writing good stories being out of good ideas, I call former good writers writing bad stories being out of good ideas. Don't feel sorry for me, I'm a happy person. You seem a little stressed, though.

 

And I guarantee you've got more to say.

 

Johns is out of good ideas. :

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Folks, I'm not sure Mr. Johns would feel good about being the cause of personal animosity between comics fans. Maybe we can just agree that tastes differ, and continue to discuss our favorite underused characters.

[Eyendasky80]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Love too, but apparently my opinion is wrong.

[Twilight]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Folks' date=' I'm not sure Mr. Johns would feel good about being the cause of personal animosity between comics fans. Maybe we can just agree that tastes differ, and continue to discuss our favorite underused characters. [/quote']

 

That works fine for me, I'm not gonna continue what seems to be a hopeless argument. As for my favourite underused character, well many of them seem to have been listed already but Shang Chi is definetly one of them. DC can find something for Richard Dragon to do, in a very well written comic I might add though probably not to everybody's tastes, so why can't Marvel find something for Shang-Chi to do?

 

After all Fu-Manchu couldn't have been the ONLY villain from the Far East could he?

[Vigil]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

One of the things that I do find a bit troublesome in the industry is the constant, almost incessant ret coning of established characters. It happens with magneto all of the time, most recently with the lunatic Magneto who infiltrated the X-Men, destroyed them from within then tried to destroy and depopulate New York. Only, I guess that wasn't the real Magneto cause the real Magneto was having tea with Profeesor X in Genosha while their mutual students were being slaughtered in New York. Maybe the Magneto in New Yok was mutant who just happened to have exactly the same mutant powers and appearance as magneto only he was evil and insane and not drinking tea in Genosha with Prof. X. Or maybe he was a skrull (remember the brilliant cow-skrulls story from FF?). Or maybe he was robot? Or maybe...?

 

Which, naturally enough, brings me to Brother Blood. I think Blood (from the 80's Titans) was one of those characters who had the problem of not being broke so they felt they had to fix him. I do find the current Titans run to be their best in over a decade but I don't think the change in Blood has helped anything at all or forwarded the story in a way that returning the classic Brother Blood wouldn't. Now, if they made some connection between Blood and Ras Al Ghul, that may be interesting.

 

vigil

[Twilight]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

One of the things that I do find a bit troublesome in the industry is the constant, almost incessant ret coning of established characters. It happens with magneto all of the time, most recently with the lunatic Magneto who infiltrated the X-Men, destroyed them from within then tried to destroy and depopulate New York. Only, I guess that wasn't the real Magneto cause the real Magneto was having tea with Profeesor X in Genosha while their mutual students were being slaughtered in New York. Maybe the Magneto in New Yok was mutant who just happened to have exactly the same mutant powers and appearance as magneto only he was evil and insane and not drinking tea in Genosha with Prof. X. Or maybe he was a skrull (remember the brilliant cow-skrulls story from FF?). Or maybe he was robot? Or maybe...?

 

Which, naturally enough, brings me to Brother Blood. I think Blood (from the 80's Titans) was one of those characters who had the problem of not being broke so they felt they had to fix him. I do find the current Titans run to be their best in over a decade but I don't think the change in Blood has helped anything at all or forwarded the story in a way that returning the classic Brother Blood wouldn't. Now, if they made some connection between Blood and Ras Al Ghul, that may be interesting.

 

vigil

 

You're right, that would be interesting, though from what I understand R'as al Ghul is dead now so that's unlikely to happen at least with Johns writing as he's usually not fond of ressurecting characters others have killed [Fury and Dove being the exceptions as far as I know.]

 

As for the change in Blood, who knows why Johns did it? Perhaps he felt he couldn't write the original version as well as Wolfman and Perez did or perhaps he felt the original's story was so good that he wanted to let it rest and thus created a new version? Or perhaps he wanted to use Brother Blood and said "oh crud Winnick killed the original in The Outsiders, better try and do something interesting with the new guy." We'll never know really.

[Vigil]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

We could torture Johns and force him to reveal why. That would work. I think Johns is kinda like Busiek in some ways in that he does seems to have respect for whats gone before and for the work of others. Maybe he did feel that he couldn't do anything with the original Bro Blood or maybe he's just waiting to ring him back in one of his story twists. Wasn't it Johns who revamped the JSA and put together the sleek twist on Hawkman's origin?

 

Beyond the characters which we've already mentioned I'd nominate Rogue as yet another completey mishandled character. In her early appearances as a villains she was duking it out with the entire Avengers line up. Almost immediately upon joining the X-Men she seemed to forget how powerful she is and how to fight and after a while didn't even use her power absorption abilities. A clasic Martian Manhunter syndrome if I've ever seen it.

 

Vigil

[Twilight]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

We could torture Johns and force him to reveal why. That would work. I think Johns is kinda like Busiek in some ways in that he does seems to have respect for whats gone before and for the work of others. Maybe he did feel that he couldn't do anything with the original Bro Blood or maybe he's just waiting to ring him back in one of his story twists. Wasn't it Johns who revamped the JSA and put together the sleek twist on Hawkman's origin?

 

Yup that was him. He also added surprising depth to the character of Black Adam during his JSA run and made Flash's Rogue's Gallery some of the most interesting characters around. Granted I didn't like his Zoom but ya can't win em all. Rumour has it that Johns might get a go at writing Wonder Woman next year as well.

[Twilight]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Another criminally underrated character, in my opinion, would have to be Spoiler. Unfortunately she's going to be eternally underused it seems as she's been killed in the horrid horrid Wargames story. She was a fun character, in my opinion and I was really enjoying her budding friendship with Batgirl and her relationship with Robin. Of course all that got shoved to the wayside as a second rate Bat-villain, Black Mask, needed to be made to look badass. It's really sad.

[Rapier]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Another criminally underrated character' date=' in my opinion, would have to be Spoiler. Unfortunately she's going to be eternally underused it seems as she's been killed in the horrid horrid Wargames story. She was a fun character, in my opinion and I was really enjoying her budding friendship with Batgirl and her relationship with Robin. Of course all that got shoved to the wayside as a second rate Bat-villain, Black Mask, needed to be made to look badass. It's really sad.[/quote']

You know there is this program on the Discovery Channel about the most dangerous jobs. I really think that hanging around with a BatMan has GOT to be up on that list.

 

It's like hanging around when Angela Lansbury (sp?) shows up. That bitch hits town and you just KNOW someone is about to drop dead and someone else is going to be blamed for it.

[Twilight]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

You know there is this program on the Discovery Channel about the most dangerous jobs. I really think that hanging around with a BatMan has GOT to be up on that list.

 

It's like hanging around when Angela Lansbury (sp?) shows up. That bitch hits town and you just KNOW someone is about to drop dead and someone else is going to be blamed for it.

 

At least with Jessica Fletcher [Angela Landsbury's character in Murder, She Wrote] you know that it's usually somebody who deserves it getting offed when she shows up. How often can you say that with Batman?

[Jhamin]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

A personal favorite of mine, and incredibly obscure Iron Man character..

 

Sunturian!

 

The guy was living microwave energy, was a genius who did this to himself *on purpose* (not a lab accident), and was such a good guy that he didn't even do it for the power. He did it so he could continue his work on a solar energy collector for the benefit of mankind.

 

The real kicker? He works for Roxxon and actually feels loyalty to his employer and is able to defend them as an imperfect company in an imperfect world.

 

This guy has it all! Power, brains, a heroic heart, and an evil megacorp for a boss. Why he doesn't show up more often to ethically challenge heros bashing big corporations is beyond me.

[Vigil]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Sunturion was a great character and it was in that same story (written by one of the greatest but sadly unheralded writers of the Bronze Age, David Micheline) that Iron Man's cool Space Armor made its debut. That was one happenin' suit of armor. And back then a new set of armor was a real big deal.

 

Another character from around the same time period who I found completely fascinating was Woodgod. I thought he was a character with a great premise and tons of promise to develop in any number of interesting ways. Instead he appeared acouple of times, maybe, and then vanished never to be hreard from again.

 

Around that same period, Marvel Premiere created a whole shwackload of interesting characters: the 3D Man, Monark Starstalker, the debut of Scott Lang as Ant Man (with magnificent Perez art), Paladin, and a whole bunch of others.

 

Plus it was the same time period that brought us 2 of the coolest charcters of the 70's, Deathlok and The Son of Satan.

 

Ah, the memories.

 

Vigil

[Vigil]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Re; Angela Landsbury.

 

You think old Jessica Fletcher is bad, look at the MacMillans from MacMillan and Wife. He was the Police Commssioner and yet practically everyone they knew was murderer or a victim. What kind of people do they hang around with is what I wonder. In an interview, I recall Rock Hudson voicing his concerns that if the MacMillans didn't move, soon, the town they lived in would be depopulated. So they moved them the big city where it would take years to kill everyone.

[Vigil]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

On the villainous side of things, there are 2 that I can think of who don't get anywhere near the credit they deserve, Nemesis Kid and Mantis, The Power Parasite.

 

Nemesis Kid is possibly the coolest villain the classic LOSH ever faced. Who else can match and then surpass power, instantly, with Mon-El, or Superboy. The way his power is structured, as I understand it, is that he can create a superior version of an opponent's power, the perfect defense to the opponents power or, if all else fails, the perfect escape. How cool is that?

 

As for Mantis, I've always found him the most interesting character in the New Gods pantheon. He really shone in the SSOSV and has made afew appearances since but he's never eally been explored as a character.

[Kristopher]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

You know there is this program on the Discovery Channel about the most dangerous jobs. I really think that hanging around with a BatMan has GOT to be up on that list.

 

It's like hanging around when Angela Lansbury (sp?) shows up. That bitch hits town and you just KNOW someone is about to drop dead and someone else is going to be blamed for it.

 

Spoiler is evidently alive, and the new Robin, since Tim Drake quit I guess.

[Vigil]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

That must spin otu of issue 7 of Identity Crisis, then. Thus far, I've found it to be one of the best stories DC's done in years. Hope issue 7 is as good.

[Eyendasky80]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Kristopher's got old news, Tim's back and Steph is dead.

[Eyendasky80]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Blue Beetle. He should be the Reed Richards of DC but instead he's often designated as "fat guy." That's just crap' date=' it's the only problem I have with Kieth Giffen. It was a funny subplot, for maybe a year, but he should have cleaned it up quicker. Beetle was the fat kid of DC for two decades and I'm sure some writer who loved the idea is going to make him fat again. I don't mind Beetle being the comic relief as long as he's the smart half of him and Booster Gold. But being comic relief doesn't mean you lose your technical genius, in fact, many technical genius types double as comic relief in fiction. Chuck Dixon gave Beetle respect and then Giffen wrote another Justice League series. I like Giffen's league so I picked it up, hoping he wouldn't undue all the good work Dixon had done. I was pleased, he was very respectful of Beetle's new outlook on life, but I got a bad feeling about any future Formerly Known as the Justice League series. Identity crisis kind of screwed up the current FKJL team since Elongated Man isn't going to be very big on adventuring for a little while.[/quote']

 

 

I quoted myself because I just read an article saying Giffen plans to ignore Identity Crisis and go ahead and use Sue Dibney for his mini.

[proditor]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Captain Britain. He started Excalliber after a long and superb run of Marvel UK books that had him face his inner demons, gain strength and confidence, and get a major upgrade on his powers. Shortly after Excaliber starts, he goes from mature and seasoned leader/hero to bumbling alcoholic and wife beater so that everyone would want Meggan to start banging Nightcrawler. Excaliber almost single handedly got me to loathe Nightcrawler, formerly one of my faves. I'd personally like to kick the guy who wrote that in the rubber parts until he cried Mommy for an hour.

 

EDIT: AND THEN, his redemption is to become king of otherworld and disappear completely from comics except when we need an origin for the new and COMPLETELY unused Captain Britain...bastards.

[Lightray]

As for Mantis' date=' I've always found him the most interesting character in the New Gods pantheon.[/quote']

Most of the New Gods are sadly underutilized. Their series tend not to sell well, I guess.

[Chuckg]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

Spoiler is evidently alive' date=' and the new Robin, since Tim Drake quit I guess.[/quote']

 

Nope. Spoiler is dead as of the last act of 'War Games', and the new brooding, angsty, dark, and edgy Tim Drake is back in the Robin suit.

 

 

Yeah, that was about my reaction too.

[Chuckg]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

OK, for a summary of War Games, I quote the MST3K'ing that I saw done of it over on CBR.com's Batman message board.

 

...so I was on another board, talking about comics, when the topic turned towards War Games.

 

This is something a poster typed up: the summarized War Games plot:

 

BATMAN: I'm a dick.

SPOILER: I want to be Robin since Tim isn't.

BATMAN: Okay. You're Robin.

SPOILER: Yay!

BATMAN: You violated my direct orders in order to save my life. You are no longer Robin.

SPOILER: >:|

 

SPOILER: I'll show him! I will!

BATGIRL: ...

 

GOTHAM CRIMELORDS: Thanks for showing up to our summit meeting which will no doubt go extremely smoothly.

PENGUIN: But of course.

DEADSHOT: You know, I can actually tell just by looking at this crowd who's about to die.

GOTHAM CRIMELORDS: ARRGH DOUBLECROSS

GUNS: Bang!

 

GOTHAM CITY: ...is it summer already? Better explode, then.

 

BATMAN: We will get out of this if everyone in Gotham does exactly what I say. Always. Forever. Including the cops and my allies. Yep, I'm still a total dick.

ORACLE, CATWOMAN: We noticed.

NIGHTWING: Dude, did you see what you got me out of in my book? You're my best friend.

TARANTULA: ...you're totally gay. Gay for him.

ROBIN: Well, mobsters attacked my high school, so it's back into the tights for me.

BATGIRL: ...

 

ORPHEUS: I'm a pretty cool character who'll eventually wind up the king of the Gotham underworld if everything goes according to plan.

SPOILER: I know! I started all this after reading the plan in Batman's computer, in that folder marked "WAR GAMES -- DO NOT EVER ACTUALLY USE".

ORPHEUS: ...wow, you're pretty stupid.

SPOILER: Yeah? Look who let f**kin' Black Mask sneak up on him.

ORPHEUS: What? Ack! [dies]

BLACK MASK: So... I'm a villain, you're a hero, it's DC, it's 2004... how about some torture?

SPOILER: ...sure, I guess.

 

BATGIRL: I make punchy.

CATWOMAN: I also make punchy but with a lot more erect nipplage. Thanks, Paul Gulacy!

 

BATMAN: This all seems familiar for some reason. I wonder...

ORACLE: Hey, Bruce, you know how I do most of the heavy intellectual lifting around here? Listen to me.

BATMAN: No time. I have to fall for a really obvious trick.

BLACK MASK: I am so Orpheus.

BATMAN: So you are.

BLACK MASK: What's the plan?

BATMAN: Well, first I tell all the cops what to do, then I herd all the gangs together in one place...

 

GOTHAM CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT: You know, we think that this time, Batman's finally gone too far. Let's arrest him.

HARVEY BULLOCK: ...I hate my life.

 

SURVIVING GOTHAM CRIMINALS: Let's erupt into violence!

BATMAN: I miss Grant Morrison.

BLACK MASK: You're all under my control now, criminals! I'm making a power grab!

SURVIVING GOTHAM CRIMINALS: ...um, okay.

 

SPOILER: ...must... survive... long enough... to fix everything...

BATMAN: Spoiler, I found you! Don't worry, I know about everything that happened and I made sure to make the situation as bad as I possibly could.

SPOILER: ...dude, seriously. F**k you. [comas]

 

HUSH: So, Masky, wanna know where the Batcave is?

BLACK MASK: But of course.

HUSH: It's in the clock tower in downtown Gotham.

BLACK MASK: That is not a cave in any way, shape, or form.

HUSH: "Batcave" is a metaphor.

BLACK MASK: ...well, okay then.

 

ORACLE: Bruce, you suck.

BATMAN: Busy right now.

ORACLE: Yeah? So am I. I've got supervillains attacking my base of operations.

BATMAN: Busy right now. Also, could you do something, you know, computery for me?

ORACLE: ...you're not even listening, are you?

BATMAN: Busy right now.

ORACLE: F**ker.

BLACK MASK: Well, I think I'll torture you now... on network news!

BATMAN: ...oh s**t.

BLACK MASK: Look, everyone, it's the Batcave! And this here's the Bat-Cripple!

BATMAN: RAR I am suicidal for some reason

BLACK MASK: Ow! My supervillain parts!

ORACLE: My god! For some reason Batman the expert martial artist is actually having a hard time with a lame-ass B-list villain that Catwoman killed in three panels! I'd better blow up the whole clock tower so I can play the victim and get Batman to save me!

BATMAN: Good plan.

ORACLE: I know.

BLACK MASK: I survived! No idea how.

 

ROBIN: I lied to the cops so they wouldn't arrest us. Now we're all persona non grata in Gotham.

NIGHTWING: I'm suicidal.

TARANTULA: I'm hot.

NIGHTWING'S MALE FANS: Nightwing, you dumbass.

BATGIRL: ...

 

BATMAN: What's that? Spoiler's dying? Better not tell anyone.

SPOILER: ...I was Robin, right?

BATMAN: Yeah, for like five minutes.

SPOILER: I could not hope for a better way to go out: as a meaningless death to top off a particularly idiotic crossover event. [dies]

BATMAN: I know, Stephanie. I know.

 

GOTHAM CITY PD: ...okay, screw this whole "Bat" thing. We're just going to do what we should've done in the first place and start f**king shooting anything we see with a mask.

BLACK MASK: Yeah, good luck with that.

 

BATMAN: We'll be here for the next gang war, and the one after that.

LESLIE THOMPKINS, ORACLE, CATWOMAN, SPOILER FANS: Bruce, you suck.

[red_eagle123]

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

 

As for the change in Blood' date=' who knows why Johns did it? Perhaps he felt he couldn't write the original version as well as Wolfman and Perez did or perhaps he felt the original's story was so good that he wanted to let it rest and thus created a new version? Or perhaps he wanted to use Brother Blood and said "oh crud Winnick killed the original in The Outsiders, better try and do something interesting with the new guy." We'll never know really. [/quote']

 

Actually, the Brother Blood from the Wolfman/Perez era couldn't have been brought back, at all. The one the Titans faced died, and his only direct heir was a daughter, thus ending the legacy aspect of the character.

 

The Brother Blood who appeared in Outsiders was, to my recollection, a complete phony, or someone trying to use the Church of Blood for his own diabolical means.

 

Same for the Brother Blood that appeared in Titans. Only in there Johns tied the origin of Raven (Mommy being raped by a summoned Trigon) to the Church of Blood, and this new kid claiming to be Brother Blood has no direct link to the Wolfman/Perez Blood, other than name.

 

As was mentioned elsewhere, Johns seems to have respect for what's already been written (Unlike some other writers), and didn't want to severely retcon things into order to bring back a Brother Blood from the past. So he made up a new one. /shrug I dunno, frankly the new story is interesting, what'll really be telling is whether the new character is used again, and used in a good storyline.