HERO 5th Revised

[ZenStorm]

I'm just wondering if anyone's heard of any plans to lower the price-tag on this particular book.

 

 

Look, please don't take this the wrong way. I'm a huge fan of this system. Absolutely Love it. I've had nothing but glowing remarks for this system since the day I happily discovered it. Honestly, as a GM who had, for years, been troubled by system constraints and problems, I finally felt as though I'd found a home with HERO.

 

BUT,...

 

Fifty dollars for a /revision/ of a book, for which I paid forty dollars, less than a year ago?

 

I'm very sorry, but that's just absolutely ridiculous.

 

I sincerely hope that future supplements will not require one to possess this revision. Does anyone know?

[Tim]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

Wait and order a damaged copy from Hero Games website.

 

Beleive me, 5er is worth it. They put a lot of new stuff in there explaning genres, and other things.

[aylwin13]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

The revision is definitely worth getting. As far as the cost, do what I did. Sell your copy of FREd to one of your players who doesn't have it. You can recoop at least some of the cost. That is unless you're a completist, and then I guess you'd have to keep both.

[Tim]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

That is unless you're a completist' date=' and then I guess you'd have to keep both.[/quote']

 

 

Is that why I still have 2 copies of FREd, a copy of Sidekick, and a copy of 5ER?

[Gadodel]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

I'll pick it up as soon as I see. If it gives more explanation, it is worth it; particularly since I am a novice.

 

 

Plus, I feel like I need to get back into shape. Hauling around and using such a big book should be a good way to start.

[aylwin13]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

Is that why I still have 2 copies of FREd' date=' a copy of Sidekick, and a copy of 5ER?[/quote']

 

I guess that your either an "ultra-completist", or your group's librarian.

[L. Marcus]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

. . . Or a fetishist?

[Tim]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

I guess that your either an "ultra-completist"' date=' or your group's librarian. [/quote']

 

Ultra- complete-ist.

[HeroGM]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

Just my two cents. FRPgames.com is selling 5Er for $39.99 and GamersAttic.com

is selling it for $45.99.

 

So you can either wait for a damaged copy or order one from one of the above places.

[Steve Long]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

We have no plans to lower the price.

[Mark Taylor]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

Fifty dollars for a /revision/ of a book, for which I paid forty dollars, less than a year ago?

 

I'm very sorry, but that's just absolutely ridiculous.

 

I can't see how it's in any way unreasonable to charge 25% more for a book that's well over 50% larger, or to publish a revision of a book that's been available almost three years. However long ago you personally happened to buy it is completely irrelevant, isn't it?

 

 

I sincerely hope that future supplements will not require one to possess this revision. Does anyone know?

 

You'll probably find that the rulebook page references in future supplements are to 5ER, but assuming you can work around that you should not have any problem at all. The rules haven't changed.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

Just my two cents. FRPgames.com is selling 5Er for $39.99 and GamersAttic.com is selling it for $45.99.

 

http://www.scifigenre.com/ has it for ~$40, as well, and you can get it on eBay for a dollar or two less than that on a regular basis.

 

Incidentally, SciFi Genre also has Spacer's Toolkit, by Ben Seeman, for ~15.00, which is a really good deal for that book.

[ZenStorm]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

I can't see how it's in any way unreasonable to charge 25% more for a book that's well over 50% larger' date=' or to publish a revision of a book that's been available almost three years.[/quote']

 

This reminds me of something. For some reason the number "3.5" keeps going through my head. "Almost three years???"

 

"Almost three years???"

You say that like you're explaining the tenure of some eighty-year-old retiree who's been at his job all his life.

 

"ALMOST THREE???"

 

Exactly how deep does your programming go, Corporate-drone-man?

 

However long ago you personally happened to buy it is completely irrelevant' date=' isn't it?[/quote']

 

Well, not completely. It is after all, relevant to me and to my personal wallet. However, since we're on the subject of personal opinions and views. I suppose the issue itself is beyond the purview of your personal inability to see "how it's in any way unreasonable."

 

-----

 

To everyone else, I appreciate the feedback.

 

Question answered. Thank you.

[specks]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

Then I suggest you buy the Sidekick book.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

I think people have forgotten the impetus of the book - there were no more copies of fifth edition. Instead of just reprinting blindly, DoJ took the opportunity to add FAQ, errata, and other material to make a new printing. The rules haven't changed - keep your copy and print the FAQ and you'll be fine.

 

There is no need to buy it if you already have the rules. I appreciate the value of having the FAQ incorporated into the rules, and I find the new explanations and text easier to navigate and reference - for me there is value in the new edition, especially since my copy of 5th is nearly 3 years old.

 

So, unless you are compelled to have the latest printing of everything put out by Herogames there really is no reason for you to buy it, nor is there really any reason to slam Herogames for making corrections before doing another print run so they actually had rules to sell.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

This reminds me of something. For some reason the number "3.5" keeps going through my head. "Almost three years???"

 

In fairness, 3.5 incorporated some fairly significant changes to the rules, and has been followed by more upscale reissues of the same books published in the prior 3 year period (eg class books; psionics rules). Hero 5er was simply an opportunity to codify some of the FAQ and clarify some of the rules. Hero 5e remains unchanged, and previously published supplements remain, with no plans to revise them.

 

"Almost three years???"

You say that like you're explaining the tenure of some eighty-year-old retiree who's been at his job all his life.

 

What is the standard duration for game system rules, and who sets it? You note that, compared to a person's career, it seems very short. So what? Compared to the life cycle of a star, the 20th century seems pretty short. Compared to the life of a mayfly, 5er has been around forever.

 

Compared to a software product, 3 years seems pretty respectable, even impressive. Compared to a textbook, it also seems pretty good. And, as you yourself point out, it seems in keeping with the "industry leader" gaming product, and more than competetive when one realizes the rules themselves have not changed (ie this isn't "Hero 5.5").

 

"ALMOST THREE???"

 

Exactly how deep does your programming go, Corporate-drone-man?

 

See, up until here I could view this as you expressing your opinion and Mark expressing his. When you spout of like this, I wonder what gives you the (erroneous) belief that your opinion is automatically superior, giving you the right to make disparaging comments which add nothing to your aregument. [Feel free to vent on me as well - I've got a thick skin. I'm sure it will roll oiff Mark's back as well.]

 

Well' date=' not completely. It is after all, relevant [i']to me[/i] and to my personal wallet. However, since we're on the subject of personal opinions and views. I suppose the issue itself is beyond the purview of your personal inability to see "how it's in any way unreasonable."

 

You and your wallet need to decide whether to buy the upgrade or not. It's no different from buying a new computer "less than a year" before Microsoft puts out a Windows upgrade. If you want the new features, you buy the new product (and I bet $40 for the old version and $50 for the new one would be getting off pretty cheap).

 

When we first had the 5er announcement there was a thread similar to this. Some of the better comments compared value for your entertainment dollar. You spent $40 on 5e under a year ago. Let's call it 6 months. How many movies would that $40 have paid for? And how many hours of use did you get out of 5e vs hours of use from that many movies? Compared to other entertainment dollar options, RPG's seem like a pretty good deal to me, even if they had a one year expiry date.

[Mark Taylor]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

This reminds me of something. For some reason the number "3.5" keeps going through my head. "Almost three years???"

 

"Almost three years???"

You say that like you're explaining the tenure of some eighty-year-old retiree who's been at his job all his life.

 

"ALMOST THREE???"

 

Yes, almost three. It's easier to type than two years and X months (I think X = 9, but I'm not sure and can't be bothered checking). I'd apologise for my lazy attitude in typing and fact checking, except that I still don't see anything wrong with it. It's also an amount of time after which the FAQ had grown to an extent where little new was being added to it and a lot of people on these boards and probably elsewhere were suggesting it should really be incorporated into the main text. In other words, there was DEMAND for the revised edition. DOJ did something that many of the customers asked for. The fiends!

 

 

Exactly how deep does your programming go' date=' Corporate-drone-man?[/quote']

 

Plainly, as you'll discover if you continue to read and post on the boards, I'm a drooling corporate zombie.

 

 

Well' date=' not completely. It is after all, relevant [i']to me[/i] and to my personal wallet. However, since we're on the subject of personal opinions and views. I suppose the issue itself is beyond the purview of your personal inability to see "how it's in any way unreasonable."

 

My point was it is and must be irrelevant to DOJ's decision to publish the revised edition. No matter how many years after the original edition they decided to publish the revised edition, whether it be 2 or 20, there would still have been people who only bought it yesterday. Does it mean they should never publish the revised edition? That's kinda silly. How recently you happened to buy the book is beyond their control, unless they do what certain other companies have done and let the main rule book go out of print for months or years before reprinting... which would generate far more complaints than 5ER has done and probably place the company in serious financial difficulties.

[zornwil]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

I ditto Mark's post and I don't see how that makes either of us corporate drone men. For anyone who failed to get 5th when it came out and now pays $10 more a while later for a product with way more content, while the extra $10 sucks, it still seems a well-balanced cost. As I've stated elsewhere, for anyone who has 5th the question is whether the additional content is worth it. If I were unemployed or in a $20K a year job, just for example, I'd say no, not for me. But happily I'm not in that position so my decision has been different.

[ZenStorm]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

First of all, I want to offer my apologies for coming off a bit harsh. It wasn't my intention to be so insulting.

 

That having been said...

 

it seems in keeping with the "industry leader" gaming product' date=' and more than competetive when one realizes the rules themselves have not changed[/quote']

 

1. May I suggest... No, may I request... Scratch that, might I BEG... that we not all start jumping for joy at the prospect of DoJ becoming more and more 'in keeping' with the particular 'leader' of this particular 'industry?'

We don't need yet another system jumping on the bandwagon of what is, BY FAR the most restrictive, limiting and cookie-cutter-esque system on the market. d20 is the devil.

 

I'm not kidding. d20 is to gaming what MTV was to the music industry. They corporatized it, boxed it up in a prettier wrapper, slowly raised the prices and killed everything about it that was good, and honest and inspiring.

It hasn't happened to gaming yet. But, thanks to Wizards of the Cash, it has definately /begun/ to happen.

 

The poison that is MTV took a few years to do its work too.

 

2. Respectfully, I disagree with the assertation that this tact is 'more than competitive.' The rules having not changed, is precisely my point. I am willing to bet that things have changed just enough to make buying it a necessity.

Oh, it doesn't seem like necessity yet. And it won't for some time to come. For now, it's all well and good and nice and comfy to debate by saying... Nah, it's only worth the price-tag if you're rich, or a collector, or both.

 

But, mark my words and mark them well. Your comfort with that standpoint, WILL fade.

Argue with this if you like.

People argued that d20 v3.5 wasn't an essential.

Show me a single minion of the d20 legion of mindless followers who has actually followed through on their self-commitment to not completely upgrade to 3.5, and I'll show you someone who's out of touch with reality.

[Mark Taylor]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

I am willing to bet that things have changed just enough to make buying it a necessity.

 

I'd suggest you actually read 5ER (as I'm currently in the process of doing) and compare its content with that of 5E before making that kind of assertion. At the moment I think you're making a bit of a fool of yourself by making false assertions based on groundless assumptions. But as you said, time will tell.

[JoseG]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

2. Respectfully, I disagree with the assertation that this tact is 'more than competitive.' The rules having not changed, is precisely my point. I am willing to bet that things have changed just enough to make buying it a necessity.

Oh, it doesn't seem like necessity yet. And it won't for some time to come. For now, it's all well and good and nice and comfy to debate by saying... Nah, it's only worth the price-tag if you're rich, or a collector, or both.

Uh.... huh?

 

Your logic in number 2 seems absolutely absurd, IMO. "Even though you may not see it now, you will see it later!" How do you know? Can you see it now? Have you read both books cover to cover and compared them rule by rule? Why don't you wait and see if it's a necessity before you start saying, without a doubt and not ever ever ever worth debating, that it is? That position absolutely baffles me.

 

I'm not gonna debate whether or not upgrading to 5ER is essential (since you say there's no point), but I seriously debate the logic you used to come to your "impervious" position.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

We don't need yet another system jumping on the bandwagon of what is' date=' BY FAR the most restrictive, limiting and cookie-cutter-esque system on the market. d20 is the devil.[/quote']

 

Say what you like: D&D 3.5 was an improvement over D&D 3.0, and the books themselves are beautifully made, a joy to read, and pleasure to look at. If WotC published a "core rules" game book the size of the H5R, it'd be well worth $50 to me. Possibly more.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

Lets establish some facts.

 

Fact: 5ER is not a different rules system then FRED.

 

Fact: FRED is out of stock

 

Fact: The choices were between a reprint, a revision, or allowing the core rulebook to remain out of stock.

 

Fact: 5ER combines the 5th Edition Rules with the known 5th Edition Errata and a good deal of the 5th Edition Rules FAQ.

 

Fact: The 5th Edition Rules document, while printed approximately 3 years ago, was written several years prior to DOJ acquiring the HG assets. Different operating principles are now in effect than when the manuscript was first written -- specifically the author went from being a freelancer to being the Line Editor and partial owner of the asset. Further, the author has written numerous other award winning game supplements for other systems as well as many more HERO System products in that time frame. This leads to both greater control over the content as well as greater experience and insight into the System as a whole.

 

Fact: The Rules have not changed. The additions are all available in various locations. The 5th Edition Rules FAQ, Errata sheets, and Genre by Genre are still available.

 

Fact: If you have FRED you do not need 5ER.

 

Fact: There is value to some customers in having the FAQ and Errata combined into one document.

 

Fact: If you do not find value in the additions to the rules document, you dont need to purchase it, and you can continue to use future rules supplements. You might occassionally encounter confusion if you encounter a section or character write up that references a clarification or correction in the main rulebook, but a review of the FAQ or Errata will clarify the situation for you.

 

OPINION: Blasting people that dont share your skewed view that you rate preferential treatment because you happened to purchase FRED recently and feel like you havent received your dollars worth out of it because an expanded version has been released, calling them "corporate" lackeys and what not, makes you look like an idiot. IMO. Not only does it not help your position, it actively hurts it. And dragging in a diatribe about some other companies versioning schemas and frothing comparisons between that company and some malefic entity are not relevant and do nothing aside from painting you as a whackjob. Again IMO. Check your baggage at the door, please.

 

 

If you dont want 5ER dont buy it. You can still play the game, use the supplements, and benefit from new 5th Edition material.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

Blasting people that dont share your skewed view that you rate preferential treatment because you happened to purchase FRED recently and feel like you havent received your dollars worth out of it because an expanded version has been released' date=' calling them "corporate" lackeys and what not, makes you look like an idiot. IMO.[/quote']

 

As someone who is himself prone to the odd emotional outburst from time to time, I think calling Mark Taylor "corporate-drone-man" was pretty rude. I really don't think that was warranted.

[Mark Taylor]

Re: HERO 5th Revised

 

As someone who is himself prone to the odd emotional outburst from time to time' date=' I think calling Mark Taylor "corporate-drone-man" was pretty rude. I really don't think that was warranted.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I'm not a corporate-drone-man, I'm a drooling corporate zombie. There IS a difference.