Taunt

[Enoch]

I'm looking for build suggestions on a taunt ability, either as a power, or possible ways to represent this with high stats or skills.

 

The first idea I have would be a presence attack and the second is a transform that would give the target a disad that was a total psychological limitation making the target want to avenge any wrongs to his honor or something like that.

 

Any suggestions?

[Vanguard00]

Re: Taunt

 

What, exactly, do you want to happen when you taunt them? Sounds like it might be a limited form of Mind Control, or it might end up being a simple boost to PRE.

[rayoman]

Re: Taunt

 

Taunt, in most MMOGs, causes the target to attack the taunter. Usually the taunter is a tank (brick).

 

a limited Mind Control (attack taunter).

[CBikle]

Re: Taunt

 

I would just buy it as extra pre with "only to taunt" (-1 limit).

[Rapier]

Re: Taunt

 

I would just buy it as extra pre with "only to taunt" (-1 limit).

That's where I'm at. I've really gotten onboard the whole PRE Attack thing. A PRE Attack is like a poor-man's Mind Control, in a limited sense. In this case, a PRE Attack seems to be the particular ticket.

[Enoch]

Re: Taunt

 

Thanks all. And yeah the character is a brick. Buddy of mine wants to play a character who isn't super strong. His whole power is basically you can't hurt me.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: Taunt

 

You just need to learn to offend people properly. Just be obnoxious! It's free, doesn't cost any points, and is really fun, too. Jokes about sexual preferences and practices work wonders on most folk.

 

"Hey, Solar Boy! I was gonna have anal sex with your girlfriend last night, but man... her strap-on is HUGE! I don't see how you take it every night!"

 

See? Just say stuff like that, and the villains will be sure to attack you. If they don't, try saying it to the GM.

[Enoch]

Re: Taunt

 

LMAO.

 

True that. But beyond that I would like the character to have some sort of ingame reflection. The player is ample at RPing such situations but we both want him to be able to over ride the better judgement of NPCs.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Taunt

 

Straight forward PRE Attack.

 

Buy Damage Reduction, Knockback Resistance, and PRE Offensive Use Only (-1), and mission complete.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: TauntHere's a starting point for you:

Aggrophoria

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Character created with Hero Designer, version 2.39

Combat Information Page Character Name: Aggrophoria Alternate Identities: Player Name: CHARACTERISTICS CHARACTER IMAGE Val Char Base Points Total Roll Notes 15 STR 10 5 15 12- HTH Damage 3d6 END [1] 20 DEX 10 30 20 13- OCV 7 DCV 7 30 CON 10 40 30 15- 30 BODY 10 40 30 15- 10 INT 10 0 10 11- PER Roll 11- 10 EGO 10 0 10 11- ECV: 3 30 PRE 10 20 30 15- PRE Attack: 6d6 16 COM 10 3 16 12-                             20 PD 3 17 20   20 PD (20 rPD) 20 ED 6 14 20   20 ED (20 rED) 4 SPD 3.0 10 4   Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12 10 REC 9 2 10   60 END 60 0 60   60 STUN 53 7 60     7" Running 6 2 7"     2" Swimming 2 0 2"     4"/2"" Leaping 3 1 4" 191 Total Characteristics Points EXPERIENCE POINTS Total earned: 0 Spent: 150 Unspent: 0 Base Points: 200 Disad Points: 0 Total Points: 350 MOVEMENT Type Total Run (6) 7"[14" NC] Swim (2) 2"[4" NC] H. Leap (3") 4" V. Leap (2") 2" APPEARANCE Hair Color:  Brown Eye Color:  Brown Height:  6' 7" Weight:  220 lbs Description: DEFENSES Type Amount Notes Physical Defense 20 Current BODY: Res. Phys. Defense 20   Energy Defense 20 Current END: Res. Energy Defense 20   Mental Defense 0 Current STUN: Power Defense 0   COMBAT INFORMATION OCV: 7 DCV: 7   Combat Skill Levels: COMBAT MANEUVERS Maneuver Phase OCV DCV Effect Block 1/2 +0 +0 Block, abort Brace 0 +2 1/2 +2 vs. Range Mod. Disarm 1/2 -2 +0 Can disarm Dodge 1/2 -- +3 Abort, vs. all attacks Grab 1/2 -1 -2 Grab two limbs Grab By 1/2 -3 -4 Move and Grab Haymaker 1/2* +0 -5 +4 DC attack damage Move By 1/2 -2 -2 STR/2 + v/5 Move Through 1/2 -v/5 -3 STR + v/3 Set 1 +1 +0 Ranged Attacks only Strike 1/2 +0 +0 STR or weapon COMBAT MODIFIERS Range 0-4 5-8 9-16 17-32 33-64 65-128 RMOD 0 -2 -4 -6 -8 -10 POWERS Cost Power END 30 Damage Sponge : Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% 0 30 Damage Sponge : Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% 0 9 Root: Knockback Resistance -10" (20 Active Points); Can't Move (-1), Nonpersistent (-1/4) 0 30 Sucker Punch: Hand-To-Hand Attack +9d6 (45 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) 4 27 Taunt: +60 PRE (60 Active Points); Offensive Use Only (-1), Requires A Persuasion Skill Roll (RSR Skill is subject to Skill vs. Skill contests, No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; -1/4) 20 Tough: Damage Resistance (20 PD/20 ED) 0 146 Total Powers Cost SKILLS Cost Name 3 Breakfall 13- 7 Persuasion 17- 3 Streetwise 15- 13 Total Skills Cost Height: 6' 7" Hair: Brown Weight: 220 lbs Eyes: Brown Appearance: Personality: Quote: Background: Powers/Tactics: Campaign Use: Character created with Hero Designer (version 2.39)

[Enforcer84]

Re: Taunt

 

If you want to make it more "Power"-ful I'd go with a Mind Control..."Attack only Me". This gets the desired effect as well.

[Crimson Arrow]

Re: Taunt

 

Note that if it's a really effective ('good' doesn't seem the right word) taunt, the number of points you'd need to provoke the opponent into attacking would reduce.

 

Also, by making it a Mind Control, a stronger-willed person is more likely to resist, which sounds reasonable.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Taunt

 

Advantages to using PRE Attacks instead of Mind Control to "taunt":

 

Mind Control is much more expensive

 

The character would need a high EGO (or gobs of ECV levels), but is mostly physical otherwise (being made to soak damage); lack of synergy. Also, EGO is twice as expensive as PRE.

 

The character would otherwise be unimpressive (since they didnt buyt their PRE up), counter to the concept of a MMORPG style tanker.

 

Breakout Rolls get annoying and are relatively easy to make -- many would slip right out of the effect the first Phase before having to comply with the order.

 

Mental Defense would apply to a Mind Control.

 

Mind Control is an attack, so if the character is Taunting with MC, they arent attacking.

 

Mind Control costs END.

 

To make Mind Control affect multiple opponents requires AoE, or Autofire which cuts the dice of effect for the same AP. Rapid Fire is another option, but chews END and drops the character to 1/2 DCV and is a Full Phase action.

 

With Mind Control you have to declare a desired effect and (unless you have cumulative) if you dont hit it, nothing happens.

 

On the plus side, Mind Control is much more absolute than PRE Attacks.

 

PRE Attacks are a 0 Phase Action, and can be combined with actual attacks

 

PRE Attacks benefit from good smack talking, as a good taunt should (on the other hand MC commands need to be pretty direct and clear).

 

Taunting people in real life (though considerably less mechanic'd than MMO taunting) is not a form of Mind Control, it's a form of interaction; PRE mimics that more closely.

 

With PRE Attacks you roll for effect and see what you get instead of having to declare a target level.

 

Mental Defense does not apply to PRE Attacks.

 

PRE Attacks dont cost END.

 

PRE Attacks can affect as many people as can hear the character, for free.

 

On the down side PRE Attacks are not absolute, and dont last long. Also, the target can resist with either EGO or PRE, whichever is higher.

 

 

All in all, using the PRE Attack mechanic is a lot more efficient than building out Mind Control to do the same thing.

[Susano]

Re: Taunt

 

NINJA HERO has some basica taunt and staredown rules.

[Ben Seeman]

Re: Taunt

 

When I did conversion to Hero for Omlevex, I simply made the Taunt ability a +15 PRE, Only in Combat(-1/2), Only to Make Target Attack (-1/2) or something like that. The effect was just a bit of hand-waving.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Taunt

 

When I did conversion to Hero for Omlevex' date=' I simply made the Taunt ability a +15 PRE, Only in Combat(-1/2), Only to Make Target Attack (-1/2) or something like that. The effect was just a bit of hand-waving.[/quote']

*Waves hands at Ben

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Taunt

 

PRE, Only to Attack -1, Set Effect -1. The results are based on how much someone wants to attack you in the first place or who's orders they're trying to ignore. If a villain tells his minions to "attack the heroes", getting them to all attack the taunter would probably be PRE or PRE+10.

 

PRE+20 will make even tactically minded individuals gun for you. PRE+30 will get anyone neutral or enemy to attack you. Friends inherently are at -10 since they kind of have a psych lim to not attack friends.

 

I've used this in many games and it is a lot of fun. The PRE is cheap (+3d6 for 5 pts). Throw charges on it or something and you are good to go.

 

It's also useful to start a fight without throwing the first punch. "Honest, it was self defense."

[Wormhole]

Re: Taunt

 

I've been considering offering Taunt as an Interaction Skill. It should also be an Everyman Skill on 8- (taunting most people is easy and taunting an animal or a moron is trivialy easy, you mainly need a higher roll for smarter or stronger-willed targets). I'm also thinking it might be logical to assign the following modifiers:

+1 to the roll for every 2 INT the target has under 10.

-1 to the roll for every 2 INT the target has over 10.

[zornwil]

Re: Taunt

 

To me, theoretically it's a subset of Persuasion, with a limited focus on goading someone to an action based on the taunt. I could see creating it as a specific skill. Skill granularity is an interesting issue in HERO; we don't have much in the way of guidelines or even expressed desirability in the system for breaking down into more discrete skills or building up into greater skills, aside from the leveling of KSes and such where there's a good article in Fantasy HERO regarding how to assign penalties according to the specificity or generality of knowledge and indicating how various levels can be the same cost.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Taunt

 

Could also make it a skill akin to Interrogate, Persuasion or Seduction ...

Taunt

Type: Interaction

Base: 9+(PRE/5)

Base/+1 Cost: 3/2

Period: All

 

The character may taunt a target to attack him or distract the target from something else. This skill is very simular to Persuasion (as well as other interaction rules as far as the standard rules go), but differs in the execution and style it's used.

[Bengal]

Re: Taunt

 

Could also make it a skill akin to Interrogate, Persuasion or Seduction ...

Taunt

Type: Interaction

Base: 9+(PRE/5)

Base/+1 Cost: 3/2

Period: All

 

The character may taunt a target to attack him or distract the target from something else. This skill is very simular to Persuasion (as well as other interaction rules as far as the standard rules go), but differs in the execution and style it's used.

 

 

This seems too narrow a construction to me to be worth 3 points, let alone skill levels in it. Better to leave it as a PRE attack I think.

 

If you really need this in your bag of tricks, consider it a Power skill based on PRE.

[zornwil]

Re: Taunt

 

Maybe as a rule anything sub-skill level should be based on a char roll, GM depending?

[Crimson Arrow]

Re: Taunt

 

Advantages to using PRE Attacks instead of Mind Control to "taunt":

 

I should say that my personal view is that it's a PRE Attack. I can see the idea that it's a form of Persuasion, but the effect seems more like a PRE Attack than a Persuasion attempt to me. The only advantage seems to be that it is 'absolute' as you say, but that seemed to be the crux of the question; how do you make someone attack you?

 

I'd considered a lot of the points you made about using Mind Control (especially the need for the attacker to have a high ECV and the fact that Mental Defense would apply). I think that's one of the problems of using Mental Powers to build other things in HERO and one I've encountered when creating characters who could 'read' body language (Telepathy).

 

It's much better if the GM can wave his hand and allow a PRE Attack to instill anger, instead of having to build a specific power. In fact, how about that old-fashioned stand-by, roleplaying? You could make jokes about Master Zen's mother all day long and he wouldn't bat an eyelid, but one out of place comment about the Rampaging Roustabout's auntie's cousin's cat and you'll have a fight on your hands.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Taunt

 

To me' date=' theoretically it's a subset of Persuasion, with a limited focus on goading someone to an action based on the taunt. I could see creating it as a specific skill. Skill granularity is an interesting issue in HERO; we don't have much in the way of guidelines or even expressed desirability in the system for breaking down into more discrete skills or building up into greater skills, aside from the leveling of KSes and such where there's a good article in Fantasy HERO regarding how to assign penalties according to the specificity or generality of knowledge and indicating how various levels can be the same cost.[/quote']

If youll check out the sample character I posted above, Aggrophoria, I built the taunt with an RSR: Persuasion, Opposed check.